Yield

likepilateihaveadog

rhinomagic wrote:

Not that I have the depth of analysis given by RockKing (fantastic work, by the way), but I've often thought of three lyrics and/or symbolic images when listening to YIELD through the years:

angels
cars
circles

The angel lyric appears in No Way, Pilate, Push Me, Pull Me, and (by inference, in the form of the hero/protagonist) Given to Fly. To me, the spiritual questions of 'the man upstairs', 'if there were no angels, would there be no sin', and the 'human being that was given to fly' lend much creedence to the theories that the song's writers were in a place of transcendence in their careers, their relationships, and their souls. Perhaps by pushing the threshold of 30 years old and by enduring the collective PJ turmoil for the few years preceding YIELD, the band members came to the recording studio seeking (or having recently experienced) catharsis and rebirth.

References to automobiles are also abundant, most notably in MFC, Do the Evolution, Wishlist, and Low Light. Motion is obviously important to the concept of yielding--without an established motion, one cannot possibly yield (in any sense of the word). It would appear that cars are means to escape, dominance, and freedom in these songs. The 'car crash' in Low Light is particularly interesting to this line of thought. If the protagonist is carrying a romantic notion of the full moon on the Camaro's hood, dominance in flattening out the rolling hills with his truck, or attempting to escape the inescapable, the car crashing brings a startling realization that the technology of man is not a means to harmony with nature/the universe.

The circles metaphor is bit tougher to pinpoint, but I think it has much in common with cycles of life, nature, and routine. Lyrically, circles are represented in No Way (latitudes, the globe), Wishlist ('I guess it never stops', the cycle; also perhaps symbolized by the mirrorball in concert), Pilate (punching and drawing circles), and In Hiding ('ignored all my rounds', routine maybe). Musically, I think circles/cycles appear heavily in Given to Fly, Wishlist, and Hummus. The rhythm of those songs could be described as circular because of the refrains and crescendos. I suppose it fits in that when one is willing to yield his/her own patterns of belief or practice, one may find greater balance with the larger cycles of life and nature. "Giving way...to nature," as Ed says with a wry smile.

I apologize if these points were made in earlier YIELD threads. I didn't read those nearly as intently as I have this one. Hopefully, there are some nuggets worth extracting and examining in the above. I can't count how many times I've thought of this while listening to The Album, yet I've never stopped to put it into words. Looking forward to some more discussion of YIELD.

.

Rhino, this is great, thanks for adding to the discussion. I'll have to think about this, but that is a great observation.

Maybe there's some sort of similarity in the sounds of these songs as well...the car songs are about pushing it forward, about getting over something in a way. They're about the future.

The circle songs are cycling back, about the past. I'd include ATY here as well (paper plate is a circle)

The angel songs are about these mystical things that don't really have an explanation, they're about faith. I'd put Faithfull in this group as well.

Cool.

distantsun

RockKing wrote:

That's definitely a side of it that we've had a tendency in the past to overlook. And I think that's why ATY is such an important song as the closer, because I think it attempts to deal with that. What are 'all those yesterdays'? You could argue they are the knowledge that you've gained to this point in your life. And it's all a part of that process. Good point Will.

i feel like the ATY issue is one your group here as overlooked over and over again. it is difficult to pin down.

RockKing

distantsun wrote:

hi. i love yield. and i am female. i just read this entire thread in its entirety.

i will also say that the comparison of given to fly to where the streets have no name is just absolutely brilliant.

both songs make your heart explode with an overwhelming sense of purpose and opportunity.

Welcome.

Yeah, when I was trying to match up a song with GTF, I knew the song had to match the size of GTF, which is no easy task. I was fortunate with 'Where The Streets Have No Name' because not only does the chorus of that song simply soar like GTF, but the lyrics have a similar moral to them.

RockKing

likepilateihaveadog wrote:

I don't really know that U2 song...before my time.

Wow. In the last week I've learned that you don't know the Smashing Pumpkins and now I find out you're unfamiliar with U2's "The Joshua Tree". And if you're unfamiliar with that album, does that mean you're also unfamiliar with their album "War"? If so, we've gotta bring you up to speed on that one, my friend.

distantsun

RockKing wrote:

Wow. In the last week I've learned that you don't know the Smashing Pumpkins and now I find out you're unfamiliar with U2's "The Joshua Tree". And if you're unfamiliar with that album, does that mean you're also unfamiliar with their album "War"? If so, we've gotta bring you up to speed on that one, my friend.

i agree. this is sort of appalling.

likepilateihaveadog

RockKing wrote:

Wow. In the last week I've learned that you don't know the Smashing Pumpkins and now I find out you're unfamiliar with U2's "The Joshua Tree". And if you're unfamiliar with that album, does that mean you're also unfamiliar with their album "War"? If so, we've gotta bring you up to speed on that one, my friend.

Ahem, yeah.

Ok.
I have some homework to do.

likepilateihaveadog

Arainea wrote:

Sorry, I don't get what you mean.

I don't know what to say.

RockKing

Arainea wrote:

Thanks, RockKing, for the summary. I just watched SVT for the first time in a while. I think what you are saying about it being an accidental concept album is dead on. All the band members kind of say the same thing, about being in a similar place and most importantly, working collaboratively for the first time. While I was watching it, I really had the feeling that one of the things they had learned to do was to yield their egos a little bit.

That's always an overlooked aspect of the YIELD experience. You can actually WATCH this amazing process unfold a bit by popping the DVD in. To be able to experience the creative headspace the entire band was in at that moment in time is truly a priceless experience.

Arainea wrote:

We've been talking a lot about lyrics, but is there anyone posting to this thread who has some expertise with musical theory? I'm just curious about that. I don't know much...I played instruments in high school, and I've always noodled around on my accoustic guitar but just strumming chords to campfire-type songs and now lullabies for putting my children to sleep. However, don't you just FEEL there is some kind of transcendent quality to the music? What is it about those melodies and chords...when I listen to YIELD with respect to just the music, I have two reactions which are probably emotional but are experienced in a very physical way. The first is I feel an intense desire to run. It's not by accident that the first story I posted here had to do with running on a treadmill while listening to YIELD. The second feeling...um, I guess here is where my female perspective is going to come in, so please hear me out and don't freak when I say this...it's like crying after orgasm. Guys don't usually do that, but women do sometimes. It used to freak my husband out, like maybe something was upsetting me, but that's not it at all. It's more like an overwhelming ache, but also like an incredibly spiritual (not religious) wave washing over you. It's not that the music is sexual in any way. I'm probably explaining this poorly, aren't I? But can you kind of understand what I'm trying to describe? I really think it must have some kind of explanation in musical theory.

We do have a tendency to focus very intently on the lyrics, because they are easier to quantify (or qualify, I suppose) than the music. But to be sure, as great as the lyrics are, this album wouldn't mean what it does to me or anyone else around here if the music was subpar. As cohesive and linear as the lyrics are or can be, so to is the music. Another point about the music that makes YIELD stand out for me, is a simple look at who wrote the music:

Brain Of J - Mike
Faithfull - Mike
No Way - Stone
Given To Fly - Mike
Wishlist - Ed
Pilate - Jeff
Do The Evolution - Stone
Red Dot - Jack
MFC - Ed
Low Light - Jeff
In Hiding - Stone
Push Me, Pull Me - Jeff
All Those Yesterdays - Stone

I'm always fascinated by that breakdown. 3 of the first 4 songs are written by Mike. Only 2 songs written by Ed. 3 songs by Jeff. This album was truly their best collaboration as a band, in my opinion.

RockKing

Arainea wrote:

Maybe. And some people on the forums spend their time talking about jello enemas (see the Stone Gossard thread for details). As you said, to each their own.

Hahaha, I love it. See, you fit in with this thread perfectly.

likepilateihaveadog

RockKing wrote:

Brain Of J - Mike
Faithfull - Mike
No Way - Stone
Given To Fly - Mike
Wishlist - Ed
Pilate - Jeff
Do The Evolution - Stone
Red Dot - Jack
MFC - Ed
Low Light - Jeff
In Hiding - Stone
Push Me, Pull Me - Jeff
All Those Yesterdays - Stone

I'm always fascinated by that breakdown. 3 of the first 4 songs are written by Mike. Only 2 songs written by Ed. 3 songs by Jeff. This album was truly their best collaboration as a band, in my opinion.

That's neat. You know Ed had more in the tank...wonder if Grievance, Sad, those kind of things were floating around. I think the tracklist can be attributed to Ed's yielding to everyone else and Jack's influence, and now there's more of a balance, with half the songs (more or less) being his on the new ones...

RockKing

rhinomagic wrote:

Not that I have the depth of analysis given by RockKing (fantastic work, by the way), but I've often thought of three lyrics and/or symbolic images when listening to YIELD through the years:

angels
cars
circles

The angel lyric appears in No Way, Pilate, Push Me, Pull Me, and (by inference, in the form of the hero/protagonist) Given to Fly. To me, the spiritual questions of 'the man upstairs', 'if there were no angels, would there be no sin', and the 'human being that was given to fly' lend much creedence to the theories that the song's writers were in a place of transcendence in their careers, their relationships, and their souls. Perhaps by pushing the threshold of 30 years old and by enduring the collective PJ turmoil for the few years preceding YIELD, the band members came to the recording studio seeking (or having recently experienced) catharsis and rebirth.

References to automobiles are also abundant, most notably in MFC, Do the Evolution, Wishlist, and Low Light. Motion is obviously important to the concept of yielding--without an established motion, one cannot possibly yield (in any sense of the word). It would appear that cars are means to escape, dominance, and freedom in these songs. The 'car crash' in Low Light is particularly interesting to this line of thought. If the protagonist is carrying a romantic notion of the full moon on the Camaro's hood, dominance in flattening out the rolling hills with his truck, or attempting to escape the inescapable, the car crashing brings a startling realization that the technology of man is not a means to harmony with nature/the universe.

The circles metaphor is bit tougher to pinpoint, but I think it has much in common with cycles of life, nature, and routine. Lyrically, circles are represented in No Way (latitudes, the globe), Wishlist ('I guess it never stops', the cycle; also perhaps symbolized by the mirrorball in concert), Pilate (punching and drawing circles), and In Hiding ('ignored all my rounds', routine maybe). Musically, I think circles/cycles appear heavily in Given to Fly, Wishlist, and Hummus. The rhythm of those songs could be described as circular because of the refrains and crescendos. I suppose it fits in that when one is willing to yield his/her own patterns of belief or practice, one may find greater balance with the larger cycles of life and nature. "Giving way...to nature," as Ed says with a wry smile.

I apologize if these points were made in earlier YIELD threads. I didn't read those nearly as intently as I have this one. Hopefully, there are some nuggets worth extracting and examining in the above. I can't count how many times I've thought of this while listening to The Album, yet I've never stopped to put it into words. Looking forward to some more discussion of YIELD.

.

Nice analysis. I dig it. I think those 3 themes are definitely key to this album. First, the religion theme, I think this one is there because mankind has always had an interesting relationship with religion. We cherish it, we doubt it, we question it, we change it, we contemplate it...I think the band was definitely a spiritual mindset for this album. I think in some ways it represents a coming to terms with spirituality in nature.

Second, the cars theme, for me, is there as a constant reminder of the escapism option. I think it's highly symbolic of cutting and running, which all have a tendency to do in life, for better or for worse.

Finally, the circles theme represents, for me, the whole cyclical nature of the whole process. Even escaping can be just one step on the process towards yielding. Mistakes in life are some of our most valuable forms of currency, because the knowledge we gain from our mistakes is priceless. So it's a necessary cycle that we must keep going through.

RockKing

YieldInHiding wrote:

Minneapolis 6-30-98 had 9 songs if you include Leatherman.

Brain of J
Faithfull
Pilate
MFC
Wishlist
All Those Yesterdays
Do the Evolution
Given to Fly
Leatherman

Showoff.

RockKing

distantsun wrote:

i feel like the ATY issue is one your group here as overlooked over and over again. it is difficult to pin down.

One of the things that complicates it so much is that Stone wrote the lyrics. I love Stone as a songwriter, but goddamn are his lyrics cryptic. Ed's lyrics are an open book with just enough ambiguity to allow us to apply it to our own lives. That's Ed's true genius. But with Stone, he likes to make you work at it a little harder.

RockKing

likepilateihaveadog wrote:

Ahem, yeah.

Ok.
I have some homework to do.

I'm thinking a call to Batman may be in order. Keep your eyes peeled.

RockKing

likepilateihaveadog wrote:

That's neat. You know Ed had more in the tank...wonder if Grievance, Sad, those kind of things were floating around. I think the tracklist can be attributed to Ed's yielding to everyone else and Jack's influence, and now there's more of a balance, with half the songs (more or less) being his on the new ones...

As prolific of a song writer as Ed is, I have to believe those songs and others were indeed lying around. I think Ed's respect for Jack was a HUGE factor here. I think Jack saw how collaborating would benefit the group as a whole, and I kinda think maybe Jack was the driving force behind it.

likepilateihaveadog

Europe 2007 totals....drumroll, please.

GTF -12 (every show)
DTE - 9
Faithfull - 2
Brain of J - 2
In Hiding - 2
MFC - 1
Low Light - 1
Wishlist - 1

(Leatherman - 1)

likepilateihaveadog

RockKing wrote:

I'm thinking a call to Batman may be in order. Keep your eyes peeled.

Robin says thanks.

meme

RockKing wrote:

Nice analysis. I dig it. I think those 3 themes are definitely key to this album. First, the religion theme, I think this one is there because mankind has always had an interesting relationship with religion. We cherish it, we doubt it, we question it, we change it, we contemplate it...I think the band was definitely a spiritual mindset for this album. I think in some ways it represents a coming to terms with spirituality in nature.

Second, the cars theme, for me, is there as a constant reminder of the escapism option. I think it's highly symbolic of cutting and running, which all have a tendency to do in life, for better or for worse.

Finally, the circles theme represents, for me, the whole cyclical nature of the whole process. Even escaping can be just one step on the process towards yielding. Mistakes in life are some of our most valuable forms of currency, because the knowledge we gain from our mistakes is priceless. So it's a necessary cycle that we must keep going through.

Nice.
I have a newfound love for yield these days, and what strikes me about it is its healing character, which I believe comes from all the three themes outlined. I would like to add something on the "car" theme and further qualify it as a "movement" theme. It strikes me that VS. is much more the album of an angry and desperate movement away from something, while Yield is the album of conscious and almost confident letting go (of names given to us by others, of helplessness). It's movement towards something, there is the transition from being locked in, in hiding, to going back to opening doors and windows, to "still stand", run towards the ocean. It's not unequivocably hopeful: you may be riding "out on the sunset", there may be 2010 in the future, but the focus is on the future nonetheless.

I love it

likepilateihaveadog

meme wrote:

I have a newfound love for yield these days, and what strikes me about it is its healing character, which I believe comes from all the three themes outlined. I would like to add something on the "car" theme and further qualify it as a "movement" theme. It strikes me that VS. is much more the album of an angry and desperate movement away from something, while Yield is the album of conscious and almost confident letting go (of names given to us by others, of helplessness). It's movement towards something, there is the transition from being locked in, in hiding, to going back to opening doors and windows, to "still stand", run towards the ocean. It's not unequivocably hopeful: you may be riding "out on the sunset", there may be 2010 in the future, but the focus is on the future nonetheless.

I think we've been trying to get at this for a while, and you put it so nicely.
It is a record of going, but not of pure escape, not of running away. It's more about moving on, or..."a confident letting go."
"It's going towards something" more than it is away from anything.

Good.


Shall we focus on this angel/car/circle thing? It's got legs.

distantsun

likepilateihaveadog wrote:

That's neat. You know Ed had more in the tank...wonder if Grievance, Sad, those kind of things were floating around. I think the tracklist can be attributed to Ed's yielding to everyone else and Jack's influence, and now there's more of a balance, with half the songs (more or less) being his on the new ones...

did stone not write sad?