Yield

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  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    BlkFlg wrote:
    I think it stems from Ed being undereducated and reading to much from one angle. He didn't balance any of the info he got into with an opposing view so it became rehetoric

    Yup, it certainly seems that way sometimes.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • distantsundistantsun Posts: 265
    he's kinda like michael moore in this respect. it is a one-sided view, purposely so, to create dialogue and foster debate.

    i don't think it is a bad thing (per se) on its own. however, when it comes to thematic ideas in art, it can fall flat.

    there are no dots to connect. not on the last album anyway.
    this post has been approved by grace6697.
  • BlkFlg1BlkFlg1 Posts: 156
    distantsun wrote:
    he's kinda like michael moore in this respect. it is a one-sided view, purposely so, to create dialogue and foster debate.

    i don't think it is a bad thing (per se) on its own. however, when it comes to thematic ideas in art, it can fall flat.

    there are no dots to connect. not on the last album anyway.

    wow, youve sure taken to this thread quickly. its almost like youve been here before. do you like YIELD then?

    How do you feel about Neil Young's Masterpiece TRANS? (notice- also capitalized!)
    YIELD Fan Club Sergeant-At-Arms
  • PissBottleManPissBottleMan Posts: 4,154
    BlkFlg wrote:
    How do you feel about Neil Young's Masterpiece TRANS? (notice- also capitalized!)

    Awesome.

    This thread is on the upswing.

    PBM
    "We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"

    Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
  • distantsun wrote:
    he's kinda like michael moore in this respect. it is a one-sided view, purposely so, to create dialogue and foster debate.

    i don't think it is a bad thing (per se) on its own. however, when it comes to thematic ideas in art, it can fall flat.

    there are no dots to connect. not on the last album anyway.
    Didn't he say something about this on the Storytellers thing?
    About wanting to get it out there and have it be clear and obvious and get people going?
    Maybe it was somewhere else, but I think the Moore comparison is pretty good.
    Teamwork. Rawk. Pwnage. Infinite Possibilities. YIELD. Hells yeah.
  • glasshouseglasshouse Posts: 1,762
    is Pilate related to the Bible character by any means?

    i know (i think) pilate is jeff's dog name, but surely their must be more to this?

    i don't know, maybe you yieldfreaks can help me out with this one
    Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30

    "Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
  • glasshouse wrote:
    is Pilate related to the Bible character by any means?

    i know (i think) pilate is jeff's dog name, but surely their must be more to this?

    i don't know, maybe you yieldfreaks can help me out with this one
    Do we have this archived somewhere?
    ;)

    Yes, it refers to Mihkail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, a novel about a character referred to as The Master, writing a book about Pontius Pilate.

    Pilate has a dog in the book named Banga and the dog is his only solace from the torture imposed on him by sentencing Jesus to death. So when Ed sings "like Pilate, I have a dog" he means that there's one thing he has that keeps him going, even in the face of misery and doom.

    That's the short answer, at least.
    Teamwork. Rawk. Pwnage. Infinite Possibilities. YIELD. Hells yeah.
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    BlkFlg wrote:
    I think it stems from Ed being undereducated and reading to much from one angle. He didn't balance any of the info he got into with an opposing view so it became emotional ideology and rehetoric. no logic. but, i do agree with alot of what he says- i just prefer metaphor and vagueness in my art.

    I wholeheartedly agree with this. It is remarkable how much the guy can annoy me when he talks politics lately, given that I agree with him on the substance of the issues.

    "Tell the captain this boat's not save we are drowning, turns out he's the one making waves": beautiful.

    "Fuck Bush": meh.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    distantsun wrote:
    he's kinda like michael moore in this respect. it is a one-sided view, purposely so, to create dialogue and foster debate.

    That's exactly the same analogy that came to my mind. We must be hanging out around the same places. I think some of their stances stifle debate, though.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    BlkFlg wrote:
    wow, youve sure taken to this thread quickly. its almost like youve been here before. do you like YIELD then?

    Can she help that her destinations...
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • glasshouseglasshouse Posts: 1,762
    Do we have this archived somewhere?
    ;)

    Yes, it refers to Mihkail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, a novel about a character referred to as The Master, writing a book about Pontius Pilate.

    Pilate has a dog in the book named Banga and the dog is his only solace from the torture imposed on him by sentencing Jesus to death. So when Ed sings "like Pilate, I have a dog" he means that there's one thing he has that keeps him going, even in the face of misery and doom.

    That's the short answer, at least.


    dude, that is awesome! really!! i need to tune in here a bit more maybe.
    deep stuff

    let me just see if i have it right: there's a novel depicting a character called the master whose writing a story (within the story) about Pilate and his affairs relating Jesus and his (not Jesus's) dog????

    fuckin sweet. i want to read that book
    Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30

    "Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
  • glasshouse wrote:
    dude, that is awesome! really!! i need to tune in here a bit more maybe.
    deep stuff

    let me just see if i have it right: there's a novel depicting a character called the master whose writing a story (within the story) about Pilate and his affairs relating Jesus and his (not Jesus's) dog????

    fuckin sweet. i want to read that book

    That's the synopsis. There's actually so much going on in this book, it's amazing. Bulgakov wrote the book in the 1930s in Moscow, and was strongly opposed to the Communist government. They didn't take too kindly to Bulgakov's opposition and punished him his whole life. The Master is an autobiographical character in many ways. Bulgakov actually threw a near-finished draft of the novel in the fire fearing the authorities would come and find it and kill him. He then had to re-write the whole thing from scratch. (The Master does the same thing in the book).

    So, there's a great deal of political criticism and protest in the novel as well and it helps if you know the background of Moscow in the 1930s.

    In other YIELD literature, check out Daniel Quinn's books as well as Charles Bukwoski's poetry. All three were influential in the thematic foundation of YIELD.
    Teamwork. Rawk. Pwnage. Infinite Possibilities. YIELD. Hells yeah.
  • glasshouseglasshouse Posts: 1,762
    thanks mate, i'll definately check that out, and maybe return to this intellectual driven thread with some not too shabby insights of my own
    Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30

    "Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
  • I should also add the Rolling Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil" is based on this book too.
    Teamwork. Rawk. Pwnage. Infinite Possibilities. YIELD. Hells yeah.
  • glasshouseglasshouse Posts: 1,762
    the plot thickens
    Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30

    "Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
  • RockKingRockKing Posts: 431
    I should also add the Rolling Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil" is based on this book too.

    Seriously? Wow, I actually never knew that. I need to get around to reading the book sometime. I've been putting it off for far too long. I've wanted to read it since the first time I read your paper on it, what, a year ago?

    Also, one of my favorite bands of all time, The Tea Party, have a song on their album The Interzone Mantras called "The Master and Margarita."

    "So now that your faith's gone who are you going to trust?
    Now that your conscience is crawling in the dust
    I've been meaning to tell you sister
    I've been meaning to tell you all

    I'm carved from the chaos and strained by its reprise
    And i've introduced myself for centuries
    I've been meaning to tell you sister
    About the master and margarita
    But if you fuel the addiction you suckle its disease

    And it drags you down
    Drags you down
    Please don't turn around"


    Seems to focus on a bit of a different aspect than Pilate does. Although not totally.
    --"I'm like an opening band for the sun"

    --"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
  • PissBottleManPissBottleMan Posts: 4,154
    RockKing wrote:
    Seriously? Wow, I actually never knew that. I need to get around to reading the book sometime.

    I concur...this all sounds fascinating.

    PBM
    "We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"

    Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
  • I'll have to check that out, thanks. I should add Satan is a character too, and based on those lyrics, that seems to make connections on that front.

    For anyone interested, the wikipedia page isn't bad.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita

    Has a good list at the bottom of all the things influenced by it.

    (For anyone REALLY interested, the page from Middlebury College in Vermont is fantastic: http://cr.middlebury.edu/public/russian/Bulgakov/public_html/)

    Carry on.
    Teamwork. Rawk. Pwnage. Infinite Possibilities. YIELD. Hells yeah.
  • PissBottleManPissBottleMan Posts: 4,154
    RockKing wrote:
    And it drags you down
    Drags you down

    Same kind of phrasing...is that from the book or a mere coincidence?

    PBM
    "We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"

    Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
  • Same kind of phrasing...is that from the book or a mere coincidence?

    PBM
    There are different translations, so I guess it depends on which one you read.

    The theme and feel of the book is certainly about that escape notion, in a way.
    Pilate wants to escape his fate of being remembered only for this one 'evil' deed, and the characters in the Russian segments of the novel are all trying to escape and overcome the overbearing government and lack of freedom.

    It seems every character faces that conflict of being dragged down by external forces and is trying to muster the internal will to keep on keepin on.
    Teamwork. Rawk. Pwnage. Infinite Possibilities. YIELD. Hells yeah.
  • PissBottleManPissBottleMan Posts: 4,154
    Pilate wants to escape his fate of being remembered only for this one 'evil' deed

    Bill Buckner letting the ball go through his legs...that was an evil deed...Pilate is on a whole other level. ;)

    PBM
    "We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"

    Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
  • distantsundistantsun Posts: 265
    meme wrote:
    That's exactly the same analogy that came to my mind. We must be hanging out around the same places. I think some of their stances stifle debate, though.

    i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.
    this post has been approved by grace6697.
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    distantsun wrote:
    i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.

    I think that's what meme meant by stifle. You can't debate with them because they're too polarizing. You either agree, or you don't.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    By the way, all the info on Pilate is truly enlightening. I never had any idea what that line was about.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • PissBottleManPissBottleMan Posts: 4,154
    yosi wrote:
    By the way, all the info on Pilate is truly enlightening. I never had any idea what that line was about.

    You're coming around yosi...soon, the Riot Act thread will be abandoned.

    :D

    PBM
    "We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"

    Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    You're coming around yosi...soon, the Riot Act thread will be abandoned.

    :D

    PBM

    Haha. I don't think so. While my fondness for Yield has certainly grown, I still love RA and always will. I just like coming to this thread cause the conversation is always good. :cool:
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    distantsun wrote:
    i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.

    Right, as yosi said... if people who agree continue to agree and people who don't will continue not to... not much of a debate :)
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • PissBottleManPissBottleMan Posts: 4,154
    meme wrote:
    Right, as yosi said... if people who agree continue to agree and people who don't will continue not to... not much of a debate :)

    I think there is a happy medium though...you can create art which examines the flaws and encourage intelligent communication.

    Doing that, while on a stage after 3 bottles of red wine, isn't a good start.

    PBM
    "We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"

    Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
  • RockKingRockKing Posts: 431
    I think there is a happy medium though...you can create art which examines the flaws and encourage intelligent communication.

    Doing that, while on a stage after 3 bottles of red wine, isn't a good start.

    PBM

    I think that's the whole point. The true gift of any great politicians is their ability to make their arguments without being polarizing about it. I think Ed's political rants are a complete waste. He rarely, if ever, sounds like he is speaking from the heart. It comes accross as him just rehashing the same rhetoric others have already thrown out there.

    To me, Ed used to be MUCH more convincing because he appeared MUCH more genuine. Now, it feels like a cause for the sake of a cause.
    --"I'm like an opening band for the sun"

    --"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
  • PissBottleManPissBottleMan Posts: 4,154
    RockKing wrote:
    Ed used to be MUCH more convincing because he appeared MUCH more genuine.

    I can get on board with that.

    PBM
    "We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"

    Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
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