I think it stems from Ed being undereducated and reading to much from one angle. He didn't balance any of the info he got into with an opposing view so it became rehetoric
Yup, it certainly seems that way sometimes.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
How do you feel about Neil Young's Masterpiece TRANS? (notice- also capitalized!)
Awesome.
This thread is on the upswing.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
he's kinda like michael moore in this respect. it is a one-sided view, purposely so, to create dialogue and foster debate.
i don't think it is a bad thing (per se) on its own. however, when it comes to thematic ideas in art, it can fall flat.
there are no dots to connect. not on the last album anyway.
Didn't he say something about this on the Storytellers thing?
About wanting to get it out there and have it be clear and obvious and get people going?
Maybe it was somewhere else, but I think the Moore comparison is pretty good.
is Pilate related to the Bible character by any means?
i know (i think) pilate is jeff's dog name, but surely their must be more to this?
i don't know, maybe you yieldfreaks can help me out with this one
Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
is Pilate related to the Bible character by any means?
i know (i think) pilate is jeff's dog name, but surely their must be more to this?
i don't know, maybe you yieldfreaks can help me out with this one
Do we have this archived somewhere?
Yes, it refers to Mihkail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, a novel about a character referred to as The Master, writing a book about Pontius Pilate.
Pilate has a dog in the book named Banga and the dog is his only solace from the torture imposed on him by sentencing Jesus to death. So when Ed sings "like Pilate, I have a dog" he means that there's one thing he has that keeps him going, even in the face of misery and doom.
I think it stems from Ed being undereducated and reading to much from one angle. He didn't balance any of the info he got into with an opposing view so it became emotional ideology and rehetoric. no logic. but, i do agree with alot of what he says- i just prefer metaphor and vagueness in my art.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. It is remarkable how much the guy can annoy me when he talks politics lately, given that I agree with him on the substance of the issues.
"Tell the captain this boat's not save we are drowning, turns out he's the one making waves": beautiful.
"Fuck Bush": meh.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
he's kinda like michael moore in this respect. it is a one-sided view, purposely so, to create dialogue and foster debate.
That's exactly the same analogy that came to my mind. We must be hanging out around the same places. I think some of their stances stifle debate, though.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Yes, it refers to Mihkail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, a novel about a character referred to as The Master, writing a book about Pontius Pilate.
Pilate has a dog in the book named Banga and the dog is his only solace from the torture imposed on him by sentencing Jesus to death. So when Ed sings "like Pilate, I have a dog" he means that there's one thing he has that keeps him going, even in the face of misery and doom.
That's the short answer, at least.
dude, that is awesome! really!! i need to tune in here a bit more maybe.
deep stuff
let me just see if i have it right: there's a novel depicting a character called the master whose writing a story (within the story) about Pilate and his affairs relating Jesus and his (not Jesus's) dog????
fuckin sweet. i want to read that book
Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
dude, that is awesome! really!! i need to tune in here a bit more maybe.
deep stuff
let me just see if i have it right: there's a novel depicting a character called the master whose writing a story (within the story) about Pilate and his affairs relating Jesus and his (not Jesus's) dog????
fuckin sweet. i want to read that book
That's the synopsis. There's actually so much going on in this book, it's amazing. Bulgakov wrote the book in the 1930s in Moscow, and was strongly opposed to the Communist government. They didn't take too kindly to Bulgakov's opposition and punished him his whole life. The Master is an autobiographical character in many ways. Bulgakov actually threw a near-finished draft of the novel in the fire fearing the authorities would come and find it and kill him. He then had to re-write the whole thing from scratch. (The Master does the same thing in the book).
So, there's a great deal of political criticism and protest in the novel as well and it helps if you know the background of Moscow in the 1930s.
In other YIELD literature, check out Daniel Quinn's books as well as Charles Bukwoski's poetry. All three were influential in the thematic foundation of YIELD.
thanks mate, i'll definately check that out, and maybe return to this intellectual driven thread with some not too shabby insights of my own
Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
I should also add the Rolling Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil" is based on this book too.
Seriously? Wow, I actually never knew that. I need to get around to reading the book sometime. I've been putting it off for far too long. I've wanted to read it since the first time I read your paper on it, what, a year ago?
Also, one of my favorite bands of all time, The Tea Party, have a song on their album The Interzone Mantras called "The Master and Margarita."
"So now that your faith's gone who are you going to trust?
Now that your conscience is crawling in the dust
I've been meaning to tell you sister
I've been meaning to tell you all
I'm carved from the chaos and strained by its reprise
And i've introduced myself for centuries
I've been meaning to tell you sister
About the master and margarita
But if you fuel the addiction you suckle its disease
And it drags you down
Drags you down
Please don't turn around"
Seems to focus on a bit of a different aspect than Pilate does. Although not totally.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Seriously? Wow, I actually never knew that. I need to get around to reading the book sometime.
I concur...this all sounds fascinating.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
Same kind of phrasing...is that from the book or a mere coincidence?
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
Same kind of phrasing...is that from the book or a mere coincidence?
PBM
There are different translations, so I guess it depends on which one you read.
The theme and feel of the book is certainly about that escape notion, in a way.
Pilate wants to escape his fate of being remembered only for this one 'evil' deed, and the characters in the Russian segments of the novel are all trying to escape and overcome the overbearing government and lack of freedom.
It seems every character faces that conflict of being dragged down by external forces and is trying to muster the internal will to keep on keepin on.
Pilate wants to escape his fate of being remembered only for this one 'evil' deed
Bill Buckner letting the ball go through his legs...that was an evil deed...Pilate is on a whole other level.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
That's exactly the same analogy that came to my mind. We must be hanging out around the same places. I think some of their stances stifle debate, though.
i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.
i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.
I think that's what meme meant by stifle. You can't debate with them because they're too polarizing. You either agree, or you don't.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
By the way, all the info on Pilate is truly enlightening. I never had any idea what that line was about.
You're coming around yosi...soon, the Riot Act thread will be abandoned.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
You're coming around yosi...soon, the Riot Act thread will be abandoned.
PBM
Haha. I don't think so. While my fondness for Yield has certainly grown, I still love RA and always will. I just like coming to this thread cause the conversation is always good. :cool:
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.
Right, as yosi said... if people who agree continue to agree and people who don't will continue not to... not much of a debate
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Right, as yosi said... if people who agree continue to agree and people who don't will continue not to... not much of a debate
I think there is a happy medium though...you can create art which examines the flaws and encourage intelligent communication.
Doing that, while on a stage after 3 bottles of red wine, isn't a good start.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
I think there is a happy medium though...you can create art which examines the flaws and encourage intelligent communication.
Doing that, while on a stage after 3 bottles of red wine, isn't a good start.
PBM
I think that's the whole point. The true gift of any great politicians is their ability to make their arguments without being polarizing about it. I think Ed's political rants are a complete waste. He rarely, if ever, sounds like he is speaking from the heart. It comes accross as him just rehashing the same rhetoric others have already thrown out there.
To me, Ed used to be MUCH more convincing because he appeared MUCH more genuine. Now, it feels like a cause for the sake of a cause.
--"I'm like an opening band for the sun"
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
Ed used to be MUCH more convincing because he appeared MUCH more genuine.
I can get on board with that.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
Comments
Yup, it certainly seems that way sometimes.
i don't think it is a bad thing (per se) on its own. however, when it comes to thematic ideas in art, it can fall flat.
there are no dots to connect. not on the last album anyway.
wow, youve sure taken to this thread quickly. its almost like youve been here before. do you like YIELD then?
How do you feel about Neil Young's Masterpiece TRANS? (notice- also capitalized!)
Awesome.
This thread is on the upswing.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
About wanting to get it out there and have it be clear and obvious and get people going?
Maybe it was somewhere else, but I think the Moore comparison is pretty good.
i know (i think) pilate is jeff's dog name, but surely their must be more to this?
i don't know, maybe you yieldfreaks can help me out with this one
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
Yes, it refers to Mihkail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, a novel about a character referred to as The Master, writing a book about Pontius Pilate.
Pilate has a dog in the book named Banga and the dog is his only solace from the torture imposed on him by sentencing Jesus to death. So when Ed sings "like Pilate, I have a dog" he means that there's one thing he has that keeps him going, even in the face of misery and doom.
That's the short answer, at least.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. It is remarkable how much the guy can annoy me when he talks politics lately, given that I agree with him on the substance of the issues.
"Tell the captain this boat's not save we are drowning, turns out he's the one making waves": beautiful.
"Fuck Bush": meh.
That's exactly the same analogy that came to my mind. We must be hanging out around the same places. I think some of their stances stifle debate, though.
Can she help that her destinations...
dude, that is awesome! really!! i need to tune in here a bit more maybe.
deep stuff
let me just see if i have it right: there's a novel depicting a character called the master whose writing a story (within the story) about Pilate and his affairs relating Jesus and his (not Jesus's) dog????
fuckin sweet. i want to read that book
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
That's the synopsis. There's actually so much going on in this book, it's amazing. Bulgakov wrote the book in the 1930s in Moscow, and was strongly opposed to the Communist government. They didn't take too kindly to Bulgakov's opposition and punished him his whole life. The Master is an autobiographical character in many ways. Bulgakov actually threw a near-finished draft of the novel in the fire fearing the authorities would come and find it and kill him. He then had to re-write the whole thing from scratch. (The Master does the same thing in the book).
So, there's a great deal of political criticism and protest in the novel as well and it helps if you know the background of Moscow in the 1930s.
In other YIELD literature, check out Daniel Quinn's books as well as Charles Bukwoski's poetry. All three were influential in the thematic foundation of YIELD.
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
Seriously? Wow, I actually never knew that. I need to get around to reading the book sometime. I've been putting it off for far too long. I've wanted to read it since the first time I read your paper on it, what, a year ago?
Also, one of my favorite bands of all time, The Tea Party, have a song on their album The Interzone Mantras called "The Master and Margarita."
"So now that your faith's gone who are you going to trust?
Now that your conscience is crawling in the dust
I've been meaning to tell you sister
I've been meaning to tell you all
I'm carved from the chaos and strained by its reprise
And i've introduced myself for centuries
I've been meaning to tell you sister
About the master and margarita
But if you fuel the addiction you suckle its disease
And it drags you down
Drags you down
Please don't turn around"
Seems to focus on a bit of a different aspect than Pilate does. Although not totally.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I concur...this all sounds fascinating.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
For anyone interested, the wikipedia page isn't bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita
Has a good list at the bottom of all the things influenced by it.
(For anyone REALLY interested, the page from Middlebury College in Vermont is fantastic: http://cr.middlebury.edu/public/russian/Bulgakov/public_html/)
Carry on.
Same kind of phrasing...is that from the book or a mere coincidence?
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
The theme and feel of the book is certainly about that escape notion, in a way.
Pilate wants to escape his fate of being remembered only for this one 'evil' deed, and the characters in the Russian segments of the novel are all trying to escape and overcome the overbearing government and lack of freedom.
It seems every character faces that conflict of being dragged down by external forces and is trying to muster the internal will to keep on keepin on.
Bill Buckner letting the ball go through his legs...that was an evil deed...Pilate is on a whole other level.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
i'm not sure that it stifles though. i think it does nothing. people who agree with them will continue to agree and those who don't, still won’t and don’t.
I think that's what meme meant by stifle. You can't debate with them because they're too polarizing. You either agree, or you don't.
You're coming around yosi...soon, the Riot Act thread will be abandoned.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
Haha. I don't think so. While my fondness for Yield has certainly grown, I still love RA and always will. I just like coming to this thread cause the conversation is always good. :cool:
Right, as yosi said... if people who agree continue to agree and people who don't will continue not to... not much of a debate
I think there is a happy medium though...you can create art which examines the flaws and encourage intelligent communication.
Doing that, while on a stage after 3 bottles of red wine, isn't a good start.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
I think that's the whole point. The true gift of any great politicians is their ability to make their arguments without being polarizing about it. I think Ed's political rants are a complete waste. He rarely, if ever, sounds like he is speaking from the heart. It comes accross as him just rehashing the same rhetoric others have already thrown out there.
To me, Ed used to be MUCH more convincing because he appeared MUCH more genuine. Now, it feels like a cause for the sake of a cause.
--"We’re taking pills to get along with life… the pills are YIELD and PJ’s music. Then we create words to call our own = our analysis of YIELD." - YIH
I can get on board with that.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org