Police abuse

pjl44

Halifax2TheMax said:

pjl44 said:

tbergs said:

Kat said:

Why would they ban recordings of that and couldn't they just say "we're investigating" anywhere and use that law to hide what they're doing? Has that been tested in court yet? And is it in a court that McConnell hasn't provided the judges who are not actually qualified. I may be off in the weeds but trust is definitely earned when it comes to some things.

It would have been helpful if they had created a definition because I could see people being wary of what crime scene means, but generally, it's a physical space where a felony has occurred; homicide, assault, robbery, arson, etc. If people film those areas they may compromise evidence. It seems that public mistrust is going to really turn the current legal process on it's head. 

What would be an example of evidence being compromised if someone is filming?

Police photos or reports introduced at trial showing the location of a weapon or shell casings and someone who filmed as it happened or after it happened showing no weapon, or a weapon closer/further to/from the body or distribution of shell casings different, or something entirely different that doesn’t jibe with witness testimony (position of the sun/shadows, lighting, number of other potential witnesses, etc. etc.).

Would we be in agreement if I said I found your example to be one of positive oversight? Because I'm reading tbergs as saying the person filming may be inadvertently compromising evidence.

Halifax2TheMax

pjl44 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

pjl44 said:

tbergs said:

Kat said:

Why would they ban recordings of that and couldn't they just say "we're investigating" anywhere and use that law to hide what they're doing? Has that been tested in court yet? And is it in a court that McConnell hasn't provided the judges who are not actually qualified. I may be off in the weeds but trust is definitely earned when it comes to some things.

It would have been helpful if they had created a definition because I could see people being wary of what crime scene means, but generally, it's a physical space where a felony has occurred; homicide, assault, robbery, arson, etc. If people film those areas they may compromise evidence. It seems that public mistrust is going to really turn the current legal process on it's head. 

What would be an example of evidence being compromised if someone is filming?

Police photos or reports introduced at trial showing the location of a weapon or shell casings and someone who filmed as it happened or after it happened showing no weapon, or a weapon closer/further to/from the body or distribution of shell casings different, or something entirely different that doesn’t jibe with witness testimony (position of the sun/shadows, lighting, number of other potential witnesses, etc. etc.).

Would we be in agreement if I said I found your example to be one of positive oversight? Because I'm reading tbergs as saying the person filming may be inadvertently compromising evidence.

I’d assume “positive oversight” is relative to which “side” you’re on. Personally, I’d say yes. I can’t speak for Tbergs but he may have been referring to someone walking around on the other side of the police taped off crime scene.

FiveBelow

Halifax2TheMax said:

pjl44 said:

tbergs said:

Kat said:

Why would they ban recordings of that and couldn't they just say "we're investigating" anywhere and use that law to hide what they're doing? Has that been tested in court yet? And is it in a court that McConnell hasn't provided the judges who are not actually qualified. I may be off in the weeds but trust is definitely earned when it comes to some things.

It would have been helpful if they had created a definition because I could see people being wary of what crime scene means, but generally, it's a physical space where a felony has occurred; homicide, assault, robbery, arson, etc. If people film those areas they may compromise evidence. It seems that public mistrust is going to really turn the current legal process on it's head. 

What would be an example of evidence being compromised if someone is filming?

Police photos or reports introduced at trial showing the location of a weapon or shell casings and someone who filmed as it happened or after it happened showing no weapon, or a weapon closer/further to/from the body or distribution of shell casings different, or something entirely different that doesn’t jibe with witness testimony (position of the sun/shadows, lighting, number of other potential witnesses, etc. etc.).

Is that you, Horatio?

brianlux

Makes sense to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv5vFT9FmkM

josevolution

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Smellyman

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

woah. 

those cars were told 3 times to back up.   Those tires need to comply

tempo_n_groove

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?  Isn't that the national guard and not police slashing the tires?

Mike D88

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?

RTFA:

Update, 6/8/20: The Star Tribune has identified the officers puncturing tires as state troopers and deputies from the Anoka County Sheriff’s Office. The officers strategically deflated the tires to “stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement,” said Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson Bruce Gordon. The troopers reportedly targeted cars that “contained items used to cause harm during violent protests” such as rocks and concrete. The Anoka County Sheriff’s Lt. Andy Knotz said deputies were following directions from the state-led Multiagency Command Center.

In case it needs to be said, the explanation given is bullshit. The police are rioting.

Smellyman

Mike D88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?

RTFA:

Update, 6/8/20: The Star Tribune has identified the officers puncturing tires as state troopers and deputies from the Anoka County Sheriff’s Office. The officers strategically deflated the tires to “stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement,” said Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson Bruce Gordon. The troopers reportedly targeted cars that “contained items used to cause harm during violent protests” such as rocks and concrete. The Anoka County Sheriff’s Lt. Andy Knotz said deputies were following directions from the state-led Multiagency Command Center.

In case it needs to be said, the explanation given is bullshit. The police are rioting.

and they weren't 'deflated' as they suggest.

They were slashed resulting in thousands of dollars in damage

tempo_n_groove

Mike D88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?

RTFA:

Update, 6/8/20: The Star Tribune has identified the officers puncturing tires as state troopers and deputies from the Anoka County Sheriff’s Office. The officers strategically deflated the tires to “stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement,” said Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson Bruce Gordon. The troopers reportedly targeted cars that “contained items used to cause harm during violent protests” such as rocks and concrete. The Anoka County Sheriff’s Lt. Andy Knotz said deputies were following directions from the state-led Multiagency Command Center.

In case it needs to be said, the explanation given is bullshit. The police are rioting.

Police rioting might be a bit of a stretch.  They know they are being watched.  You think they are that blatant about what they did and would lie about it?

Too much credit to the PD?

bbiggs

tempo_n_groove said:

Mike D88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?

RTFA:

Update, 6/8/20: The Star Tribune has identified the officers puncturing tires as state troopers and deputies from the Anoka County Sheriff’s Office. The officers strategically deflated the tires to “stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement,” said Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson Bruce Gordon. The troopers reportedly targeted cars that “contained items used to cause harm during violent protests” such as rocks and concrete. The Anoka County Sheriff’s Lt. Andy Knotz said deputies were following directions from the state-led Multiagency Command Center.

In case it needs to be said, the explanation given is bullshit. The police are rioting.

Police rioting might be a bit of a stretch.  They know they are being watched.  You think they are that blatant about what they did and would lie about it?

Too much credit to the PD?

Yeah I don't buy into that.  I had a cop friend sit in our backyard last night, talking about the situation for over an hour.  You gain a very different point of view hearing it directly from someone on the front lines during this.  He had an explosive device thrown at him and the rest of the cops he stood alongside last week.  It wasn't a firecracker either.  Scary shit to be walking in their shoes these days.

oftenreading

tempo_n_groove said:

Mike D88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?

RTFA:

Update, 6/8/20: The Star Tribune has identified the officers puncturing tires as state troopers and deputies from the Anoka County Sheriff’s Office. The officers strategically deflated the tires to “stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement,” said Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson Bruce Gordon. The troopers reportedly targeted cars that “contained items used to cause harm during violent protests” such as rocks and concrete. The Anoka County Sheriff’s Lt. Andy Knotz said deputies were following directions from the state-led Multiagency Command Center.

In case it needs to be said, the explanation given is bullshit. The police are rioting.

Police rioting might be a bit of a stretch.  They know they are being watched.  You think they are that blatant about what they did and would lie about it?

Too much credit to the PD?

Do I think they would lie about it? Of course. The police have been caught in many, many lies about their conduct. It's really only in this age of widespread filming that we have proof of these lies. 

tempo_n_groove

bbiggs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Mike D88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?

RTFA:

Update, 6/8/20: The Star Tribune has identified the officers puncturing tires as state troopers and deputies from the Anoka County Sheriff’s Office. The officers strategically deflated the tires to “stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement,” said Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson Bruce Gordon. The troopers reportedly targeted cars that “contained items used to cause harm during violent protests” such as rocks and concrete. The Anoka County Sheriff’s Lt. Andy Knotz said deputies were following directions from the state-led Multiagency Command Center.

In case it needs to be said, the explanation given is bullshit. The police are rioting.

Police rioting might be a bit of a stretch.  They know they are being watched.  You think they are that blatant about what they did and would lie about it?

Too much credit to the PD?

Yeah I don't buy into that.  I had a cop friend sit in our backyard last night, talking about the situation for over an hour.  You gain a very different point of view hearing it directly from someone on the front lines during this.  He had an explosive device thrown at him and the rest of the cops he stood alongside last week.  It wasn't a firecracker either.  Scary shit to be walking in their shoes these days.

It's stories like that and what was shown above w the tire slashing that feeds into the negatives of each others side.

Mike D88

tempo_n_groove said:

Police rioting might be a bit of a stretch.  They know they are being watched.  You think they are that blatant about what they did and would lie about it?

Too much credit to the PD?

Is it? What do you call a crowd of unaccountable armed men causing thousands upon thousands of dollars in damage to private property?

static111

Mike D88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Police rioting might be a bit of a stretch.  They know they are being watched.  You think they are that blatant about what they did and would lie about it?

Too much credit to the PD?

Is it? What do you call a crowd of unaccountable armed men causing thousands upon thousands of dollars in damage to private property?

State based violence

mace1229

Kat said:

I'm thinking they can't lie in court about a crime when a citizen has a video of something they want to lie about. That's how far my cynicism has gone...we need good people in policing. I've always loved blue but I don't like bad apples and it's going to take the good police officers to get the bad apples out of their profession. The bad apples make the good officers look terrible and so the "good" officers are not trustworthy themselves because of that. It wonn't be easy, it never is but it's time to stand up. 
Thanks tbergs.  

I don’t see this having any impact on police planting guns or evidence as other suggested. Many, or even most incidents are captured live. It’s not a crime scene, so this would not apply. If you’re worried this was passed to allow cops to cover up an unlawful shooting, it’s not a crime scene at that point.
I read this as a marked scene with an ongoing investigation. And it makes sense to me. You don’t want evidence leaking out before a trial. You don’t want people physically contamination by a crime scene trying to take pictures.
A cop shooting an unarmed person and planting evidence and a cover-up wouldn’t apply.

bbiggs

tempo_n_groove said:

bbiggs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Mike D88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?

RTFA:

Update, 6/8/20: The Star Tribune has identified the officers puncturing tires as state troopers and deputies from the Anoka County Sheriff’s Office. The officers strategically deflated the tires to “stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement,” said Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson Bruce Gordon. The troopers reportedly targeted cars that “contained items used to cause harm during violent protests” such as rocks and concrete. The Anoka County Sheriff’s Lt. Andy Knotz said deputies were following directions from the state-led Multiagency Command Center.

In case it needs to be said, the explanation given is bullshit. The police are rioting.

Police rioting might be a bit of a stretch.  They know they are being watched.  You think they are that blatant about what they did and would lie about it?

Too much credit to the PD?

Yeah I don't buy into that.  I had a cop friend sit in our backyard last night, talking about the situation for over an hour.  You gain a very different point of view hearing it directly from someone on the front lines during this.  He had an explosive device thrown at him and the rest of the cops he stood alongside last week.  It wasn't a firecracker either.  Scary shit to be walking in their shoes these days.

It's stories like that and what was shown above w the tire slashing that feeds into the negatives of each others side.

I'm not even sure why there are sides on this.  Most people agree that police brutality and racism have to end; however, de-funding police forces and painting all cops with a broad brush is not the way to accomplish that.  It's been said before, but there are bad apples in every profession.  Should medical research funding be slashed because there are bad doctors?

tempo_n_groove

bbiggs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

bbiggs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Mike D88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?

RTFA:

Update, 6/8/20: The Star Tribune has identified the officers puncturing tires as state troopers and deputies from the Anoka County Sheriff’s Office. The officers strategically deflated the tires to “stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement,” said Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson Bruce Gordon. The troopers reportedly targeted cars that “contained items used to cause harm during violent protests” such as rocks and concrete. The Anoka County Sheriff’s Lt. Andy Knotz said deputies were following directions from the state-led Multiagency Command Center.

In case it needs to be said, the explanation given is bullshit. The police are rioting.

Police rioting might be a bit of a stretch.  They know they are being watched.  You think they are that blatant about what they did and would lie about it?

Too much credit to the PD?

Yeah I don't buy into that.  I had a cop friend sit in our backyard last night, talking about the situation for over an hour.  You gain a very different point of view hearing it directly from someone on the front lines during this.  He had an explosive device thrown at him and the rest of the cops he stood alongside last week.  It wasn't a firecracker either.  Scary shit to be walking in their shoes these days.

It's stories like that and what was shown above w the tire slashing that feeds into the negatives of each others side.

I'm not even sure why there are sides on this.  Most people agree that police brutality and racism have to end; however, de-funding police forces and painting all cops with a broad brush is not the way to accomplish that.  It's been said before, but there are bad apples in every profession.  Should medical research funding be slashed because there are bad doctors?

You hit the nail on the head.  I mentioned something along those lines with cost and the mention of defunding.

Doctors have a very high malpractice insurance that they pay into.

Police forces might have to do the same one day.

brianlux

The incident that has me most disturbed is that of 75 year old Martin Gugino, the protester who was shoved by police, fell backward on his head, is still in ICU and could still die or never fully recover.  There is video of the incident on Youtube but I won't post it- I can't watch it again.  The cop who shoved this man should be prosecuted and punished severely.  An absolutely despicable act.

Equally disgusting is Trumps reaction which can be read here:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/donald-trump-conspiracy-martin-gugino-buffalo

pjl44

bbiggs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

bbiggs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Mike D88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

https://twitter.com/motherjones/status/1270059322806923264?s=21
Unreal behavior by these uniformed personnel!

Do they have a statement for that?

RTFA:

Update, 6/8/20: The Star Tribune has identified the officers puncturing tires as state troopers and deputies from the Anoka County Sheriff’s Office. The officers strategically deflated the tires to “stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement,” said Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson Bruce Gordon. The troopers reportedly targeted cars that “contained items used to cause harm during violent protests” such as rocks and concrete. The Anoka County Sheriff’s Lt. Andy Knotz said deputies were following directions from the state-led Multiagency Command Center.

In case it needs to be said, the explanation given is bullshit. The police are rioting.

Police rioting might be a bit of a stretch.  They know they are being watched.  You think they are that blatant about what they did and would lie about it?

Too much credit to the PD?

Yeah I don't buy into that.  I had a cop friend sit in our backyard last night, talking about the situation for over an hour.  You gain a very different point of view hearing it directly from someone on the front lines during this.  He had an explosive device thrown at him and the rest of the cops he stood alongside last week.  It wasn't a firecracker either.  Scary shit to be walking in their shoes these days.

It's stories like that and what was shown above w the tire slashing that feeds into the negatives of each others side.

I'm not even sure why there are sides on this.  Most people agree that police brutality and racism have to end; however, de-funding police forces and painting all cops with a broad brush is not the way to accomplish that.  It's been said before, but there are bad apples in every profession.  Should medical research funding be slashed because there are bad doctors?

It's such a bizarre movement. You have a bunch of people exclaiming "defund the police" then a bunch of journalists come in to explain "what it actually means" which sounds nothing like defunding the police, yet they make sure to patronize anyone who thinks that "defund the police" means "defund the police."