Police abuse
Comments
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Yesbrianlux said:I was reading this article last night about defunding police departments:One of the points made is the idea of investing some or much of the funding that goes to police departments into social services. This reminds me of a guest speaker who spoke at one of the classes I worked with in a Human Services at our local community college. The speaker had worked in prison administration. One of our students asked him what he thought was the best way to reform prisoners. He said reform is difficult and that prevention through improved education and social services is proven to be much more effective.With that in mind, it seems to me that it would make more sense to fund education and social services rather than expand or continue to fund police department at the rate they are now. With better education and social services, there would not be the need for the large policing we have now. But, of course, the question is, will America go for this, or are we just to entrenched in doing things ass backwards?Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
I doubt if more than 10-15% of current police would meet the standards I would enact for the profession. 🤷♂️gimmesometruth27 said:
why should we give current cops, who are so ingrained with bad cops, a 6 figure salary? you can't teach old dogs new tricks, and bad cops are not going to suddenly find a conscience and unlearn their habits because you doubled their salary. many are sociopaths. why reward that behavior?rgambs said:My solution, which I've laid out here in detail a few times, is the opposite: Flood the profession with money. Starting salaries in excess of $100,000 across the board, but in conjunction with MASSIVELY more strict qualifications. Massive increases in training and continuing education. Massive increases in performance evaluation.
You shouldn't be able to join a police force if you can't get accepted to a competitive undergraduate program. Best and brightest only.
the entire policing system needs to be revamped, and more of the current cops have to go to make way for a new culture of police.
in no way should we give cops that amount of money while teachers have to pay out of their own pocket so there are crayons for their classrooms.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Only 520 fishermen in the US?rgambs said:
Methinks they might be a tad off on that one.This weekend we rock Portland0 -
This idea that police forces are underfunded is a MYTH. Maybe the officers themselves aren't paid much, but police unions are the one union that even Scott Walker of Wisconsin EXEMPTED from his anti-union amendment in recent years. In Virginia, it's the same. They are the only public union allowed (until this year we got new seriously limited collective bargaining rights for teachers) and the police succeed in their collective bargaining all the time. According to a Dept of Ed brief, in the past three decades state and local spending on corrections has grown three times faster than spending on education and social services. Florida spends 2.3 billion dollars a year on corrections, and 16% of its state employees work in corrections. States and localities use law enforcement to fund their coffers in the form of fees and fines -- found to be true in Ferguson and probably all across this country. Policing is BIG BUSINESS in America. Stop believing the lies about those "poor, poor police."
I have tried to shrink this photo multiple times. Sorry I'm technically challenged . . . I do know how to read, though. EDIT . . . okay, it's smaller in the actual post :-).
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Good last couple of posts what dreams. Getting to some of the major problems.what dreams said:This idea that police forces are underfunded is a MYTH. Maybe the officers themselves aren't paid much, but police unions are the one union that even Scott Walker of Wisconsin EXEMPTED from his anti-union amendment in recent years. In Virginia, it's the same. They are the only public union allowed (until this year we got new seriously limited collective bargaining rights for teachers) and the police succeed in their collective bargaining all the time. According to a Dept of Ed brief, in the past three decades state and local spending on corrections has grown three times faster than spending on education and social services. Florida spends 2.3 billion dollars a year on corrections, and 16% of its state employees work in corrections. States and localities use law enforcement to fund their coffers in the form of fees and fines -- found to be true in Ferguson and probably all across this country. Policing is BIG BUSINESS in America. Stop believing the lies about those "poor, poor police."
I have tried to shrink this photo multiple times. Sorry I'm technically challenged . . . I do know how to read, though. EDIT . . . okay, it's smaller in the actual post :-).0 -
And MN already has one of the highest standards in the country for officers. Some cities even require a 4 year degree, while the standard is at least a 2 year. Many states don't even require any college. HS grad, background and on to the academy. That is scary to me.rgambs said:
I doubt if more than 10-15% of current police would meet the standards I would enact for the profession. 🤷♂️gimmesometruth27 said:
why should we give current cops, who are so ingrained with bad cops, a 6 figure salary? you can't teach old dogs new tricks, and bad cops are not going to suddenly find a conscience and unlearn their habits because you doubled their salary. many are sociopaths. why reward that behavior?rgambs said:My solution, which I've laid out here in detail a few times, is the opposite: Flood the profession with money. Starting salaries in excess of $100,000 across the board, but in conjunction with MASSIVELY more strict qualifications. Massive increases in training and continuing education. Massive increases in performance evaluation.
You shouldn't be able to join a police force if you can't get accepted to a competitive undergraduate program. Best and brightest only.
the entire policing system needs to be revamped, and more of the current cops have to go to make way for a new culture of police.
in no way should we give cops that amount of money while teachers have to pay out of their own pocket so there are crayons for their classrooms.It's a hopeless situation...0 -
norm posted an interesting article on facebook yesterday that police academies only want applicants with IQs in a certain range. they are afraid that people with IQs that are too high will get bored with mundane police work after expensive training and then leave the profession. i will see if i can find the link. it was fascinating stuff.rgambs said:
I doubt if more than 10-15% of current police would meet the standards I would enact for the profession. 🤷♂️gimmesometruth27 said:
why should we give current cops, who are so ingrained with bad cops, a 6 figure salary? you can't teach old dogs new tricks, and bad cops are not going to suddenly find a conscience and unlearn their habits because you doubled their salary. many are sociopaths. why reward that behavior?rgambs said:My solution, which I've laid out here in detail a few times, is the opposite: Flood the profession with money. Starting salaries in excess of $100,000 across the board, but in conjunction with MASSIVELY more strict qualifications. Massive increases in training and continuing education. Massive increases in performance evaluation.
You shouldn't be able to join a police force if you can't get accepted to a competitive undergraduate program. Best and brightest only.
the entire policing system needs to be revamped, and more of the current cops have to go to make way for a new culture of police.
in no way should we give cops that amount of money while teachers have to pay out of their own pocket so there are crayons for their classrooms."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
is that for all cops? i can see detectives needing that kind of education, but i can't imagine all police having degrees.tbergs said:
And MN already has one of the highest standards in the country for officers. Some cities even require a 4 year degree, while the standard is at least a 2 year. Many states don't even require any college. HS grad, background and on to the academy. That is scary to me.rgambs said:
I doubt if more than 10-15% of current police would meet the standards I would enact for the profession. 🤷♂️gimmesometruth27 said:
why should we give current cops, who are so ingrained with bad cops, a 6 figure salary? you can't teach old dogs new tricks, and bad cops are not going to suddenly find a conscience and unlearn their habits because you doubled their salary. many are sociopaths. why reward that behavior?rgambs said:My solution, which I've laid out here in detail a few times, is the opposite: Flood the profession with money. Starting salaries in excess of $100,000 across the board, but in conjunction with MASSIVELY more strict qualifications. Massive increases in training and continuing education. Massive increases in performance evaluation.
You shouldn't be able to join a police force if you can't get accepted to a competitive undergraduate program. Best and brightest only.
the entire policing system needs to be revamped, and more of the current cops have to go to make way for a new culture of police.
in no way should we give cops that amount of money while teachers have to pay out of their own pocket so there are crayons for their classrooms."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
you know what takes a special kind of a person? a prison guard.
i had a roommate in grad school who was a prison guard at a supermax in southern illinois. he was so cruel. even to regular people. he roughed up his g/f one time at a bar and got the cops called on him. i wasn't there at the time, but he was not arrested. i found out later he talked her out of pressing charges.
he had to have been a sociopath. i have not heard from him since 2000. would not surprise me if he pissed off the wrong inmate and got himself attacked."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
In some states the first assignment sheriffs get is jail.
Great idea.
Start people who may be idealistic off working with people who are mostly criminals.
I imagine that would make some people jaded.The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
is that for all cops? i can see detectives needing that kind of education, but i can't imagine all police having degrees.tbergs said:
And MN already has one of the highest standards in the country for officers. Some cities even require a 4 year degree, while the standard is at least a 2 year. Many states don't even require any college. HS grad, background and on to the academy. That is scary to me.rgambs said:
I doubt if more than 10-15% of current police would meet the standards I would enact for the profession. 🤷♂️gimmesometruth27 said:
why should we give current cops, who are so ingrained with bad cops, a 6 figure salary? you can't teach old dogs new tricks, and bad cops are not going to suddenly find a conscience and unlearn their habits because you doubled their salary. many are sociopaths. why reward that behavior?rgambs said:My solution, which I've laid out here in detail a few times, is the opposite: Flood the profession with money. Starting salaries in excess of $100,000 across the board, but in conjunction with MASSIVELY more strict qualifications. Massive increases in training and continuing education. Massive increases in performance evaluation.
You shouldn't be able to join a police force if you can't get accepted to a competitive undergraduate program. Best and brightest only.
the entire policing system needs to be revamped, and more of the current cops have to go to make way for a new culture of police.
in no way should we give cops that amount of money while teachers have to pay out of their own pocket so there are crayons for their classrooms."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836&fbclid=IwAR0ITk2_J6IrRj78_LOjWbDNEo1xc_dKUd5gP9OGLyUXWNi_Jm_thHdGN1wN E W L O N D O N, Conn., Sept. 8, 2000 -- A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.
The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.
“This kind of puts an official face on discrimination in America against people of a certain class,” Jordan said today from his Waterford home. “I maintain you have no more control over your basic intelligence than your eye color or your gender or anything else.”
He said he does not plan to take any further legal action.
Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.
Most Cops Just Above Normal The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average.
Jordan alleged his rejection from the police force was discrimination. He sued the city, saying his civil rights were violated because he was denied equal protection under the law.
But the U.S. District Court found that New London had “shown a rational basis for the policy.” In a ruling dated Aug. 23, the 2nd Circuit agreed. The court said the policy might be unwise but was a rational way to reduce job turnover.
Jordan has worked as a prison guard since he took the test.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
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Agreed completely.tbergs said:
I will be interested to see the crime statistics for many of these cities in the next 5 years. Defunding and cutting staff isn't going to fix police brutality and abuse, it's going to exacerbate the problem by having less money for training, resources and staff to handle calls. Go ahead and say fuck the police all you want, but that isn't a solution either.HesCalledDyer said:rgambs said:
Angry protest rhetoric, mostly. It's out there, but it isn't all that serious, IMO.tempo_n_groove said:
I keep reading that "people want to defund the police" or "disband police".Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah and with public-trust in policing eroding, coupled with low wages, and folks calling for police departments to be defunded, I worry how many people will even want to be cops and deal with those dangers going forward. And the saddest part is, the bad cops will probably still want to be cops because they have ego/racist/control issues they they take out on people through crooked policing. But the good people that want to be cops might not think it's worth the trouble at this rate. Could lead to even more bad cops in power.rgambs said:
There's definitely a unique aspect to the danger in policing.Ledbetterman10 said:
I got ya. I guess I'll rephrase to say policing has the a lot of unspecified (and thus, hard to prepare for) danger to it. You don't know who or what you're going to run into. Most of those jobs in that "top 10 most dangerous jobs" you posted have more specified dangers (accidents in transportation being the most common it seems), so you know the safety precautions to take.rgambs said:
Logging, anything on a boat, most forms of construction...Ledbetterman10 said:
I'd love to hear the 15 jobs you think are as dangerous or more dangerous than being a police officer. I'll even start the list for you.rgambs said:
I don't think it's even in the top 15...Ledbetterman10 said:
Which raises concerns about policing going forward. Of course the main concern everyone wants addressed is equality in policing so that minorities aren't targeted like Floyd and others have been. But another problem is....who the fuck is going to want to be a police officer? It's already the most dangerous and most important job there is. They're woefully underpaid. Folks on the left are calling to defund police departments. If you're a cop and the mob comes for you, what do you do? Stand your ground and protect citizens? Or protect yourself? The whole situation sucks. From the systemic racism, to the riots, to the good cops being vilified by the public, to the bad cops being protected by their departments....we're in ugly times. Hopefully something good actually comes of these Floyd protests.gimmesometruth27 said:
this was big news here in stl. from what i have seen he is kind of viewed as an uncle tom by protesters that were interviewed. it is really sad for sure though.dignin said:
Why was a 77 year old out there trying to protect businesses? He should have known better.Ledbetterman10 said:Not a single post in this on this board (at least according to the search function) about this poor man that was murdered earlier in the week during the riots. Not surprising. His name was David Dorn, a 77-year-old former police chief that tried to help protect businesses in St. Louis during the riots, and was murdered in cold blood. His death as he bled out on the street was livestreamed on facebook. Very sad.
Just so I'm clear that's sarcasm. It's a horrible story.
Also, I think I did read about that here but maybe without the name of the victim.
i guess the lesson here is if there is an angry mob coming at you to try to destroy something, you have to ask yourself if you are willing to lay down your life for someone else's property.
1) Military
2) Firefighting
That's a start, what are the other 13?
Where the hell did this come from?Plenty of Minneapolis organizations have already terminated contracts with the MPD. The Los Angeles mayor is slashing $150million in funds from the LAPD's budget. It's not just angry protest rhetoric, serious action is beginning to take place. Let's hope it continues because this shit needs fixed. But it runs deep for over 400 years, so it isn't gonna happen overnight.0 -
Good riddance. There are a lot of good people looking for work. And to understand where I'm coming from, my own father was a policeman. I know how some of them handle the job.
Post edited by Kat onFalling down,...not staying down0 -
57 cops standing in brotherhood with 2 bad cops equals...you guessed it 59 bad copsKat said:Good riddance. There are a lot of good people looking for work. And to understand where I'm coming from, my own father was a policeman. I know how some of them handle the job.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Adding this one for clarity and to correct a wrong impression. They resigned from the response team but are still being paid.
Falling down,...not staying down0 -
Unfortunately it appears they are still on the force, just not the special beat people up with no impunity force.Kat said:Good riddance. There are a lot of good people looking for work. And to understand where I'm coming from, my own father was a policeman. I know how some of them handle the job.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0
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