I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be.
It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking.
He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.
I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?
So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so. Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife.
And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?
To the bold, apparently only if you're white.
I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot.
After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."
I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot. But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.
Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.
Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop.
If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could.
Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking. But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there.
it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it.
edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned.
I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment.
In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.
It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police?
This isn't rocket science.
I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with; He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment.
Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?
Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:
"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."
Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.
I would consider it being harassed if it were me, yes. so I can only imagine what a black person would feel like.
I was approached by 2 cops for suspiciously playing pokemon go in a park. It was annoying. It wasn't harassment. I don't see how being approached can equal harassment. If that is where we are, not a black man can't be approached without it being harassment, then I think we're pretty screwed. May as well defund the police if you can't even approach someone without being accused of harassment.
I am not sure you can compare a one off playing pokemon go and something that has to some people on a weekly basis. I am not saying this is the only time it happened to you but I could not imagine having to deal with that shit as much as some do.
Still, being "approached" does not equal harassment. "Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it." Seriously, people are defending him, saying this was harassment? Did he even know why the cop was approaching him? If not, it doesn't even matter it was over j-walking. If so, then that's a bit of an over-reaction. I've said the situation probably could have been diffused, the cop probably had better options, the cop probably was in the wrong. But no one here can say the victim shares in responsibility for pulling a knife on a cop for merely just approaching him? If we can't agree that a cop has a right to approach someone who violated traffic laws (Is that a traffic law? I dont know - But I'm not even saying ticket, but just approach) and if we cant at least put some blame on the victim for pulling a lethal weapon for being approached, and being approached equals harassment, then I don't think there's any hope for police reform and change if we can't even give an inch to say don't pull a knife. And if that's the case, I'm pretty much done discussing this and ready to enjoy my weekend!
Unless I was actively walking into traffic, or otherwise being an asshole, I would consider any reprimand from a cop for jaywalking to be harrassment / breaking my balls.
We’re talking about jaywalking here.
Be more narrow minded.
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I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be.
It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking.
He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.
I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?
So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so. Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife.
And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?
To the bold, apparently only if you're white.
I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot.
After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."
I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot. But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.
Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.
Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop.
If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could.
Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking. But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there.
it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it.
edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned.
I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment.
In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.
It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police?
This isn't rocket science.
I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with; He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment.
Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?
Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:
"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."
Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.
I would consider it being harassed if it were me, yes. so I can only imagine what a black person would feel like.
I was approached by 2 cops for suspiciously playing pokemon go in a park. It was annoying. It wasn't harassment. I don't see how being approached can equal harassment. If that is where we are, not a black man can't be approached without it being harassment, then I think we're pretty screwed. May as well defund the police if you can't even approach someone without being accused of harassment.
going about your daily life shouldn't be considered suspicious, no matter your colour. approached by cops while playing pokemon go in a park? seriously? I would actually call that being harassed. it's none of their fucking business what you are doing if you aren't actively engaging in criminal behaviour. if they walked by and said hi or something, to try to scare you off without causing some type of potential confrontation, fine, but a guy walking around with his phone?
maybe if some Karen complained about you thinking it was weird that a lone man was in the same vicinity as her kids, I guess maybe, but still. that's a bit much.
I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be.
It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking.
He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.
I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?
So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so. Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife.
And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?
To the bold, apparently only if you're white.
I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot.
After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."
I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot. But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.
Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.
Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop.
If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could.
Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking. But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there.
it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it.
edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned.
I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment.
In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.
It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police?
This isn't rocket science.
I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with; He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment.
Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?
Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:
"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."
Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.
I would consider it being harassed if it were me, yes. so I can only imagine what a black person would feel like.
I was approached by 2 cops for suspiciously playing pokemon go in a park. It was annoying. It wasn't harassment. I don't see how being approached can equal harassment. If that is where we are, not a black man can't be approached without it being harassment, then I think we're pretty screwed. May as well defund the police if you can't even approach someone without being accused of harassment.
going about your daily life shouldn't be considered suspicious, no matter your colour. approached by cops while playing pokemon go in a park? seriously? I would actually call that being harassed. it's none of their fucking business what you are doing if you aren't actively engaging in criminal behaviour. if they walked by and said hi or something, to try to scare you off without causing some type of potential confrontation, fine, but a guy walking around with his phone?
maybe if some Karen complained about you thinking it was weird that a lone man was in the same vicinity as her kids, I guess maybe, but still. that's a bit much.
That is exactly what happened. I lived 3 houses down from the park and had a half day of work that day. They said someone called and was concerned and asked what I was doing.
I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be.
It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking.
He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.
I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?
So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so. Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife.
And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?
To the bold, apparently only if you're white.
I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot.
After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."
I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot. But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.
Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.
Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop.
If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could.
Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking. But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there.
it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it.
edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned.
I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment.
In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.
It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police?
This isn't rocket science.
I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with; He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment.
Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?
Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:
"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."
Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.
I would consider it being harassed if it were me, yes. so I can only imagine what a black person would feel like.
I was approached by 2 cops for suspiciously playing pokemon go in a park. It was annoying. It wasn't harassment. I don't see how being approached can equal harassment. If that is where we are, not a black man can't be approached without it being harassment, then I think we're pretty screwed. May as well defund the police if you can't even approach someone without being accused of harassment.
I’m glad it took a bad experience playing Pokémon go for you to finally see reason!
I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be.
It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking.
He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.
I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?
So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so. Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife.
And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?
To the bold, apparently only if you're white.
I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot.
After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."
I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot. But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.
Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.
Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop.
If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could.
Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking. But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there.
it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it.
edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned.
I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment.
In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.
It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police?
This isn't rocket science.
I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with; He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment.
Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?
Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:
"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."
Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.
I didn’t ask for examples of cops harassing people in this thread, I asked you to illustrate what you would consider cop harassment and what it would look like if trying to stop someone for jaywalking isn’t harassment in your view.
I don’t know why some of us try here and in our outside lives with the “I’m not a racist but in this situation the cops were justified” racist crowd. It just becomes like the myth of Sisyphus pushing the rock and letting it roll back down again, just an endless punishment. I started posting here on amt during the beginning of quarantine and it boggles my mind how people can listen to this bands music and constantly side with state sanctioned violence against marginalized citizens.
I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be.
It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking.
He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.
I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?
So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so. Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife.
And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?
To the bold, apparently only if you're white.
I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot.
After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."
I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot. But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.
Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.
Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop.
If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could.
Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking. But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there.
it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it.
edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned.
I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment.
In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.
It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police?
This isn't rocket science.
I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with; He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment.
Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?
Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:
"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."
Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.
I didn’t ask for examples of cops harassing people in this thread, I asked you to illustrate what you would consider cop harassment and what it would look like if trying to stop someone for jaywalking isn’t harassment in your view.
I don’t know why some of us try here and in our outside lives with the “I’m not a racist but in this situation the cops were justified” racist crowd. It just becomes like the myth of Sisyphus pushing the rock and letting it roll back down again, just an endless punishment. I started posting here on amt during the beginning of quarantine and it boggles my mind how people can listen to this bands music and constantly side with state sanctioned violence against marginalized citizens.
"The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart."
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,798
Perspective
I’m a cop. The Chauvin verdict is a message for me, and for my colleagues.
Police officers can’t be defensive. We owe it to those we serve to change policing — and slow down.
Former
Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin listens to the verdict Tuesday
pronouncing him guilty of murder and then is led away in handcuffs to
await sentencing. (Court TV/AFP/Getty Images)
By Patrick Skinner
Patrick
Skinner is a police officer in his hometown of Savannah, Ga. He is a
former CIA operations officer and served in the United States Coast
Guard as well as the U.S. Capitol Police.
April 21, 2021 at 12:28 p.m. EDT
I was at work as a police officer when the judge announced the jurors’ verdict
Tuesday in a Minneapolis courtroom. I am a violent-crimes detective in
my hometown of Savannah, Ga., but like the rest of America, I was
worried about the verdict. I was worried that once again, a jury would,
despite clear video evidence of guilt, find that it was somehow
reasonable for a minor criminal matter to end in the death of an unarmed
suspect at the hands of a police officer.
But
I was also worried that we would view the outcome as the conclusion of a
trial and not the beginning of change. Because as powerful as the
murder conviction of former police officer Derek Chauvin is, what we do
next — as a country in general and as police in particular — will go a
long way in determining whether systemic positive police reform is
possible. It is in this time immediately after the verdict that several
things, which are entirely within my control as a police officer, have
to happen.
The first thing is actually something that needs to not
happen: Police must not be defensive. We must not circle the wagons.
“Not all cops” is exactly the wrong reaction. Even though that is true —
of course not all cops are bad — it is irrelevant. Systemic reform is
inseparable from individual change. We need both, and they have to feed
off each other. There will be a natural desire by police, myself
included, to say that the system worked, that Chauvin was found guilty
by a jury of his peers and that a bad apple was sent to jail, no longer
around to rot the bunch. Again, this is true, but it is also irrelevant.
A nation so tense about a single trial, so uncertain about what was
going to happen, is a nation in desperate need of much more. And we all
have to take a first step. For me, the first step is that I need to take
this verdict personally if I am to change professionally: That means I
need to empathize more with my neighbors, and if they’re outraged or sad
or just weary from police interactions — theirs and others’ — I need to
work from that space. It means these outrages aren’t just outrageous to
my profession, they’re outrageous to me personally. It means to step
out of comfortable anonymity and demand that we change it all.
Here’s
the second thing that needs to happen: We police need to fight the
destructive reaction we have resorted to before in places like New York,
where members of the police union had an unofficial but announced slowdown
in 2019 after the dismissal of an officer implicated in the killing of
Eric Garner by police in 2014. We have to stop saying, in effect, that
if we can’t do our job the way we have always done it, well then, we
won’t do our job at all. We might still collect a paycheck, but we will
stop a lot of work because of an exaggerated fear of running afoul of
the “new rules.” Rules such as “Don’t treat your neighbors like robots
of compliance,” “Don’t escalate trivial matters into life-or-death
confrontations” and “Treat your neighbors as if they were your
neighbors.” That anyone would consider these rules “new” is a problem in
itself. Few police officers reading them aloud would take issue with
such anodyne statements, but put accountability behind the statements
and now they’re an attack, not just on all police but the very
foundation of American policing. The truth is that we do not get to tell
our neighbors — those whose communities we police — how we will do our
job. They tell us.
On
April 25, Politicians on both sides of the aisle discussed how policing
should change after Derek Chauvin was declared guilty of murdering
George Floyd. (Blair Guild/The Washington Post)
Faced
with criticism that perhaps police should not be turning a traffic stop
over an unarmed person’s vehicle registration sticker into something to
be resolved at gunpoint, some will say, “What are the police supposed
to do, let all criminals just run away?” There is a lot wrong with that
reaction. To begin with, let’s slow down on calling someone with
registration issues a criminal. And then let’s slow down everything,
because we police are rushing to make bad decisions when time is almost
always our friend. Tamir Rice most likely would not have been killed for
having a toy gun if the Cleveland police officers had not rushed right
up to him and shot him. There was no violence going on; the 12-year-old
was alone in the middle of a park. Slow down, I tell myself in almost
every police encounter. The risk to my neighbors in my rushing to a
final judgment in very uncertain and fluid situations far outweighs the
risk to myself. I’m often wrong in the initial assessment of chaotic
scenes, and so I try to be wrong silently, allowing my judgment to catch
up to my reactions, to allow my perception to catch up with my vision.
Slow down.
I
don’t know the third thing that needs to happen to lay the foundation
for sweeping positive change in American policing because I’m so focused
on the first two. I’m worried. I’m even scared. Not of big changes but
that they might not happen. There is nothing easy or comfortable about
any of this. To change policing in America requires confronting issues
of race, poverty, inequality, injustice — the very issues too many in
America say aren’t even issues anymore, as if history and its terrible
weight started today.
I
believe I was wrong for some time about not taking this personally.
I’ve often told myself to not take well-deserved criticism of police
misconduct and crime personally, because while as a police officer I am
responsible, I was not personally responsible. I even wrote about this
very thing here last year after the murder of George Floyd.
I meant that I must not get defensive and to accept responsibility even
if I wasn’t to blame. But now I don’t think that’s enough, at least for
me. I think I have to take it personally: I have to be offended,
I have to be outraged, and I have to act. That means I need to
understand the goal of every 911 call, and that the compliance of those I
encounter is not a goal; it might be a path to a goal but it’s not the
goal. It means putting my neighbors first at every instance. It means
often to act slower, to give my neighbors the benefit of the doubt
because they are the point of my job.
None
of this is abstract, none of this is a metaphor. All of this is
senseless death in needlessly life-or-death situations. And all of this
is personal.
I
was at work when the verdict came in; I’ll be at work tomorrow, taking
this verdict personally because my neighbors demand it. And they have
always deserved it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be.
It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking.
He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.
I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?
So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so. Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife.
And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?
To the bold, apparently only if you're white.
I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot.
After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."
I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot. But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.
Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.
Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop.
If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could.
Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking. But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there.
it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it.
edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned.
I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment.
In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.
It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police?
This isn't rocket science.
I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with; He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment.
Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?
Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:
"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."
Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.
I didn’t ask for examples of cops harassing people in this thread, I asked you to illustrate what you would consider cop harassment and what it would look like if trying to stop someone for jaywalking isn’t harassment in your view.
I don’t know why some of us try here and in our outside lives with the “I’m not a racist but in this situation the cops were justified” racist crowd. It just becomes like the myth of Sisyphus pushing the rock and letting it roll back down again, just an endless punishment. I started posting here on amt during the beginning of quarantine and it boggles my mind how people can listen to this bands music and constantly side with state sanctioned violence against marginalized citizens.
so everyone who disagrees with you is a racist now. ok.
I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be.
It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking.
He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.
I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?
So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so. Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife.
And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?
To the bold, apparently only if you're white.
I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot.
After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."
I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot. But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.
Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.
Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop.
If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could.
Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking. But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there.
it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it.
edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned.
I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment.
In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.
It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police?
This isn't rocket science.
I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with; He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment.
Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?
Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:
"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.
The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.
In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."
Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.
I didn’t ask for examples of cops harassing people in this thread, I asked you to illustrate what you would consider cop harassment and what it would look like if trying to stop someone for jaywalking isn’t harassment in your view.
I don’t know why some of us try here and in our outside lives with the “I’m not a racist but in this situation the cops were justified” racist crowd. It just becomes like the myth of Sisyphus pushing the rock and letting it roll back down again, just an endless punishment. I started posting here on amt during the beginning of quarantine and it boggles my mind how people can listen to this bands music and constantly side with state sanctioned violence against marginalized citizens.
"The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart."
"One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
I SAW PEARL JAM
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,798
The Supreme Court building in Washington, Oct. 26, 2020. (Anna Moneymaker/The New York Times)
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In case after case, it took only a split second for an officer to pull the trigger.
Adam Toledo, a 13-year-old in Chicago, had tossed away a handgun and begun raising his hands. Ma’Khia Bryant, a 16-year-old in Columbus, Ohio, lunged with a knife at another teenager. Tyrell Wilson, a 33-year-old mentally ill homeless man in Danville, California, had a knife in hand when he shouted “Kill me” at an approaching deputy sheriff.
All three were among more than 100 people shot and killed by police over the previous six weeks.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not sure what exactly happened here but its telling when several officers either resigned or retired. Something is seriously is up here and its possible this could turn out to be far worse thab sadly what happened to George Floyd.
BTW, Elizabeth City is a beautiful city, that I've driven through on my way to Greensboro. This is one case to keep up with, stat tuned
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
DC officers four of them drag racing in DC neighborhood crash while on duty. At this time its unclear whether they will be cited for reckless driving both cars were totalled.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Attorney: Black man killed by deputies shot in back of head
By BEN FINLEY and JONATHAN DREW
Today
ELIZABETH CITY, N.C. (AP) — A Black man killed by deputies in North Carolina was shot in the back of the head and had his hands on his car steering wheel when they opened fire, attorneys for his family said Monday after relatives viewed body camera footage.
The account was the first description of the shooting of Andrew Brown Jr., who was killed by deputies serving drug-related search and arrest warrants. His death last Wednesday led to nightly protests and demands for justice in the town of Elizabeth City. Authorities have released few details, and the video has not been made public.
Attorney Chantel Cherry-Lassiter watched a 20-second portion of body camera video with Brown's family. Lassiter said Brown did not appear to be a threat to officers as he backed his vehicle out of his driveway and tried to drive away from deputies with guns drawn.
"There was no time in the 20 seconds that we saw where he was threatening the officers in any kind of way," she told reporters at a news conference.
When asked whether Brown was shot in the back, attorney Harry Daniels said, “Yes, back of the head.”
An eyewitness account and emergency scanner traffic had previously indicated Brown was shot in the back as he tried to drive away.
“My dad got executed just by trying to save his own life,” said Brown’s adult son Khalil Ferebee, who watched the video.
Lassiter, who watched the video multiple times and took notes, said the shooting started as soon as the video began and that she lost count of the number of gunshots fired by law enforcement officers armed with rifles and handguns. She said she counted as many as eight deputies in the video, some wearing tactical uniforms and some in plainclothes.
“They’re shooting and saying ‘Let me see your hands’ at the same time,” she said. She added: “Let’s be clear. This was an execution.”
The family’s lawyers were also angry about what they described as rude treatment by Pasquotank County Attorney R. Michael Cox, to whom they attributed the decision to limit the amount of footage shown. They criticized authorities for sharing only 20 seconds of video from a single body camera.
“They’re trying to hide something,” attorney Benjamin Crump said.
Attorney Bakari Sellers said Cox used profanity toward him. “I’ve never been talked to like I was talked to in there,” Sellers said.
Cox did not immediately respond to an email seeking comment.
Pasquotank County Sheriff Tommy Wooten II has said that multiple deputies fired shots. Seven deputies are on leave pending a probe by the State Bureau of Investigation.
In a video statement, the sheriff said Monday that Cox had filed a request to have the video released, which in North Carolina must be authorized by a judge. He asked for patience while the State Bureau of Investigation probes the case.
“This tragic incident was quick and over in less than 30 seconds, and body cameras are shaky and sometimes hard to decipher. They only tell part of the story,” he said.
Earlier Monday, a search warrant was released that indicated investigators had recorded Brown selling small amounts of cocaine and methamphetamine to an informant. Crump argued that authorities were trying to release negative information about Brown while shielding themselves by holding back the video.
The warrant was sought by Wooten’s office and signed by a judge to allow the search of Brown’s Elizabeth City home. It said that an investigator in nearby Dare County was told by the informant that the person had been purchasing crack cocaine and other drugs from Brown for over a year. The informant described purchasing drugs at the house that was the target of the search.
In March, narcotics officers used the informant to conduct controlled purchases of methamphetamine and cocaine from Brown on two separate occasions, according to the warrant, which said both drug transactions were recorded using audio and video equipment.
The search warrant said investigators believed Brown was storing drugs in the home or two vehicles. The document, which indicated the search was not completed, did not list anything found.
Two arrest warrants released last week charged him with possession with intent to sell and deliver 3 grams of each of the drugs.
Calls have been growing to release the body camera footage. A coalition of media organizations have sought the footage, and city officials plan to do so as well.
Short of releasing it publicly, state law allows law enforcement to show body camera video privately to a victim’s family.
Also Monday, Elizabeth City officials declared a state of emergency amid concerns about how demonstrators would react to a possible video release. Protests since the shooting in the eastern North Carolina town of about 18,000 have generally been peaceful.
Danielle McCalla, who grew up in Elizabeth City before recently moving to Virginia, joined demonstrators who came to watch the news conference by the family attorneys. She said it left her in tears.
“As soon as they started going into details, I started crying,” she said. McCalla, 30, said she met Brown and had several conversations with him, making her sad about what’s happening in her hometown and about police shootings elsewhere.
“It’s the same thing that keeps happening,” she said. “It’s a bigger monster than we think it is.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Attorney: Black man killed by deputies shot in back of head
By BEN FINLEY and JONATHAN DREW
Today
ELIZABETH CITY, N.C. (AP) — A Black man killed by deputies in North Carolina was shot in the back of the head and had his hands on his car steering wheel when they opened fire, attorneys for his family said Monday after relatives viewed body camera footage.
The account was the first description of the shooting of Andrew Brown Jr., who was killed by deputies serving drug-related search and arrest warrants. His death last Wednesday led to nightly protests and demands for justice in the town of Elizabeth City. Authorities have released few details, and the video has not been made public.
Attorney Chantel Cherry-Lassiter watched a 20-second portion of body camera video with Brown's family. Lassiter said Brown did not appear to be a threat to officers as he backed his vehicle out of his driveway and tried to drive away from deputies with guns drawn.
"There was no time in the 20 seconds that we saw where he was threatening the officers in any kind of way," she told reporters at a news conference.
When asked whether Brown was shot in the back, attorney Harry Daniels said, “Yes, back of the head.”
An eyewitness account and emergency scanner traffic had previously indicated Brown was shot in the back as he tried to drive away.
“My dad got executed just by trying to save his own life,” said Brown’s adult son Khalil Ferebee, who watched the video.
Lassiter, who watched the video multiple times and took notes, said the shooting started as soon as the video began and that she lost count of the number of gunshots fired by law enforcement officers armed with rifles and handguns. She said she counted as many as eight deputies in the video, some wearing tactical uniforms and some in plainclothes.
“They’re shooting and saying ‘Let me see your hands’ at the same time,” she said. She added: “Let’s be clear. This was an execution.”
The family’s lawyers were also angry about what they described as rude treatment by Pasquotank County Attorney R. Michael Cox, to whom they attributed the decision to limit the amount of footage shown. They criticized authorities for sharing only 20 seconds of video from a single body camera.
“They’re trying to hide something,” attorney Benjamin Crump said.
Attorney Bakari Sellers said Cox used profanity toward him. “I’ve never been talked to like I was talked to in there,” Sellers said.
Cox did not immediately respond to an email seeking comment.
Pasquotank County Sheriff Tommy Wooten II has said that multiple deputies fired shots. Seven deputies are on leave pending a probe by the State Bureau of Investigation.
In a video statement, the sheriff said Monday that Cox had filed a request to have the video released, which in North Carolina must be authorized by a judge. He asked for patience while the State Bureau of Investigation probes the case.
“This tragic incident was quick and over in less than 30 seconds, and body cameras are shaky and sometimes hard to decipher. They only tell part of the story,” he said.
Earlier Monday, a search warrant was released that indicated investigators had recorded Brown selling small amounts of cocaine and methamphetamine to an informant. Crump argued that authorities were trying to release negative information about Brown while shielding themselves by holding back the video.
The warrant was sought by Wooten’s office and signed by a judge to allow the search of Brown’s Elizabeth City home. It said that an investigator in nearby Dare County was told by the informant that the person had been purchasing crack cocaine and other drugs from Brown for over a year. The informant described purchasing drugs at the house that was the target of the search.
In March, narcotics officers used the informant to conduct controlled purchases of methamphetamine and cocaine from Brown on two separate occasions, according to the warrant, which said both drug transactions were recorded using audio and video equipment.
The search warrant said investigators believed Brown was storing drugs in the home or two vehicles. The document, which indicated the search was not completed, did not list anything found.
Two arrest warrants released last week charged him with possession with intent to sell and deliver 3 grams of each of the drugs.
Calls have been growing to release the body camera footage. A coalition of media organizations have sought the footage, and city officials plan to do so as well.
Short of releasing it publicly, state law allows law enforcement to show body camera video privately to a victim’s family.
Also Monday, Elizabeth City officials declared a state of emergency amid concerns about how demonstrators would react to a possible video release. Protests since the shooting in the eastern North Carolina town of about 18,000 have generally been peaceful.
Danielle McCalla, who grew up in Elizabeth City before recently moving to Virginia, joined demonstrators who came to watch the news conference by the family attorneys. She said it left her in tears.
“As soon as they started going into details, I started crying,” she said. McCalla, 30, said she met Brown and had several conversations with him, making her sad about what’s happening in her hometown and about police shootings elsewhere.
“It’s the same thing that keeps happening,” she said. “It’s a bigger monster than we think it is.”
___
Drew reported from Durham, North Carolina.
If the cops are surrounding you, why on earth would you try driving away?
So something has to change. Don't try running/fleeing from the cops would be a good start. The other would be that cops should holster their guns longer and a different training approach should be done.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,798
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not sure what exactly happened here but its telling when several officers either resigned or retired. Something is seriously is up here and its possible this could turn out to be far worse thab sadly what happened to George Floyd.
BTW, Elizabeth City is a beautiful city, that I've driven through on my way to Greensboro. This is one case to keep up with, stat tuned
I'm not that familiar with this case other than the 1-minute headline I heard on the news, so I can't comment on specifics. But responding to what you said, I don't think that is telling or weird at all. These police that are part of the media, even when justified, face death threats for their families and are targeted. If I was qualified for retirement I probably would take it regardless of the circumstances of the shooting.
"Blue lives matter" was always code for "No, black lives DON'T matter".
I've hated this equivalence. It makes police irrelevant and all racists. I have a hard time believing that this is what the police came up with for that reason.
At the same time we need to change policing. That would hopefully bring about positive change.
"Blue lives matter" was always code for "No, black lives DON'T matter".
I've hated this equivalence. It makes police irrelevant and all racists. I have a hard time believing that this is what the police came up with for that reason.
At the same time we need to change policing. That would hopefully bring about positive change.
it doesn't make the cops irrelevant or racists, it makes the utterer of the phrase racist and trying to make BLM irrelevant.
"Blue lives matter" was always code for "No, black lives DON'T matter".
I've hated this equivalence. It makes police irrelevant and all racists. I have a hard time believing that this is what the police came up with for that reason.
At the same time we need to change policing. That would hopefully bring about positive change.
it doesn't make the cops irrelevant or racists, it makes the utterer of the phrase racist and trying to make BLM irrelevant.
Which is the way I am going with it. They came up w Blue Lives Matter to show solidarity, not for being against BLM.
An open letter from Deon Joseph, a black 24-year veteran of the LAPD, to LeBron James.....
Dear Lebron:
I am not going to come at you from a place of hatred. There will be no name calling. I was raised to see the whole of a human being. Not to hyper focus on their flaws or make said flaws the whole of who they are. I’m an honest man.
What you do for children, and other acts of charity shows a huge heart. You show to be a family man, and that’s to be respected. You play for the team my family has cheered for since the 1960s, then myself since 1979. But… Your current stance on policing is so off base and extreme. Your tweet that targeted a police officer in Ohio who saved a young woman’s life was irresponsible and disturbing. It showed a complete lack of understanding of the challenge of our job in the heat of a moment. You basically put a target on the back of a human being who had to make a split second decision to save a life from a deadly attack.
A decision I know he and many others wish they never had to make. Especially when it involves someone so young. Instead of apologizing, you deflected. You said you took your tweet down because you did not want it to be used for hate, when the tweet itself was the embodiment of hatred, rooted in a lack of understanding of the danger of the situation.I don’t know if this will ever reach you, but my hope is that one day I can sit down with you and talk. As a man of faith, I can have no hatred toward you. But I do feel I can help you understand the reality of the profession of policing, and that there is another side you need to hear. You are tired of Black folks dying? So am I. You hate racism and police brutality? So do I. But you cannot paint 800,000 men and women who are of all races, faiths, sexual orientations and are also mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, preachers, coaches, community members and just human with such a broad and destructive brush.
Unlike some who have dug their heals in the belief that police are inherently evil, I think if you yourself actually sat down and had a real honest and open conversation with a cop, there is a strong chance you may discover we are not the monsters you have come to believe we are, who deserve the hate and distain you have.
And even if you come away feeling the same way, I could respect it, because at least you gave the other side your ear instead of only hearing one narrative.
The offer is on the table Lebron. No cameras. No fanfare. Just two men who care talking. I know it’s a long shot. But this division and hatred must stop. It’s clear based on rising crime in marginalized communities that cops and the community need to build bridges to save lives on all sides. That cannot be done through the demonization of any group of people.
Just putting it out in the universe brother. Even if not me, please take the time to talk to a police officer instead of judging them. No shade. Thanks for all the positive things you do.
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,798
California Man Dies After Officers Pin Him to Ground for 5 Minutes
The death of Mario Arenales Gonzalez came one day before a former Minneapolis officer was convicted of murdering George Floyd. Body camera footage was released on Tuesday.
Image
A screenshot from body camera footage of Mario Arenales Gonzalez, who died in police custody in Alameda, Calif., last week.Credit...Alameda Police Department
Published April 27, 2021Updated April 28, 2021, 12:21 a.m. ET
Body camera footage was released on Tuesday of a 26-year-old man who died in police custody after officers in Alameda County, Calif., pinned him facedown on the ground for five minutes.
The footage from the Alameda Police Department shows the man, Mario Arenales Gonzalez, becoming unresponsive while in handcuffs and police officers quickly beginning chest compressions.
Mr. Gonzalez died on April 19, one day before Derek Chauvin, a former Minneapolis police officer, was convicted of murdering George Floyd by restraining him for nine minutes and 29 seconds, holding him to the pavement with his knee long after Mr. Floyd had become unresponsive.
An initial police report from Alameda, south of Oakland, said that “a physical altercation ensued” when officers tried to detain Mr. Gonzalez and that “at that time, the man had a medical emergency.” The report said Mr. Gonzalez had died in a hospital later that day.
Julia Sherwin, a lawyer representing Mr. Gonzalez’s family, called the explanation “misinformation,” comparing it to the initial police report after Mr. Floyd’s death. Mr. Gonzalez’s family was also concerned with why the police used force in the first place, Ms. Sherwin said.
“His death was completely avoidable and unnecessary,” she said, adding, “Drunk guy in a park doesn’t equal a capital sentence.”
At a news conference on Tuesday, Gerardo Gonzalez said his brother had not been posing any threat when he died.
“Alameda police officers murdered my brother,” he said.
Three police officers have been placed on administrative leave, and the Alameda County Sheriff’s Office and the Alameda County District Attorney’s Office are both conducting independent investigations. The city of Alameda has also hired Louise Renne, the former city attorney for San Francisco and a former president of the San Francisco Police Commission, to conduct its own investigation.
Image
The video shows officers struggling to detain Mr. Gonzalez.Credit...Alameda Police Department
In addition to the body camera footage, the city released two audio recordings from people who had called 911 to report a Hispanic man later identified as Mr. Gonzalez.
One man says Mr. Gonzalez has been loitering for about a half-hour and appears to be breaking store security tags off alcohol bottles. Another man says Mr. Gonzalez is talking to himself at a fence near the caller’s backyard. “He seems like he’s tweaking, but he’s not doing anything wrong,” he says. “He’s just scaring my wife.”
In the body camera footage, the first officer at the scene asks on his radio whether a nearby store has reported any recent thefts, describing Mr. Gonzalez, who has two Walgreens shopping baskets.
The officer, who identifies himself as Officer McKinley, then continues to speak with Mr. Gonzalez, asking whether he knows Alameda and whether he is thinking of hurting himself or others. Mr. Gonzalez struggles to maintain the conversation or provide his name.
Another officer arrives about seven minutes after the first officer.
“Here’s the plan,” the first officer says. “I’ve got to identify you, so I know who I’m talking to — make sure you don’t have any warrants or anything like that. You come up with a plan, let me know you’re not going to be drinking in our parks over here. And then we can be on our merry way.”
“Merry-go-round?” Mr. Gonzalez replies.
The two officers then ask Mr. Gonzalez for identification and tell him to keep his hands out of his pockets before they begin trying to detain him.
“Can you please put your hand behind your back and stop resisting us?” the second officer says after several minutes.
The officers eventually push Mr. Gonzalez to the ground facedown and handcuff him. “What are we going to do?” the first officer asks. “Just keep him pinned down?”
“It’s OK, Mario,” the officer later says. “We’re going to take care of you.”
The first officer asks for Mr. Gonzalez’s last name and his birthday and tells him to keep talking. He answers in whimpered bursts and later begins grunting. At one point, he seems to say, “Please don’t do it.”
After about four and a half minutes of body camera footage showing Mr. Gonzalez pinned to the ground, a third officer is seen on his legs. When one officer asks if they should roll him on his side, another replies, “I don’t want to lose what I got.”
“We have no weight on his chest, nothing,” the second officer observes, pointing to Mr. Gonzalez’s back. As the first officer tries to adjust his position, the second says: “No, no, no. No weight, no weight, no weight.”
Seconds later, the officers notice that Mr. Gonzalez has become unresponsive. They roll him onto his side and then push him onto his back and begin chest compressions after checking for a pulse.
After emergency medical workers respond, the first officer explains that they administered Narcan, which can reverse overdoses. “He went from combative to nonresponsive almost immediately,” he says.
Several experts testified during Mr. Chauvin’s trial that the prone position was dangerous because it could impair breathing and that officers should put people they are detaining onto their sides as quickly as possible.
The three officers put on leave were Eric McKinley, Cameron Leahy and James Fisher, a city spokeswoman said on Tuesday. When asked for more details about the death of Mr. Gonzalez, she pointed to the Police Department’s previous news releases about the encounter.
Will Wright is a national reporting fellow. He has reported from Oregon, Louisiana, Texas and Kentucky. He previously covered eastern Kentucky for the Lexington Herald-Leader. @NYT_Wright
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Here's the cop that wrote the above letter to LeBron. Very level-headed and smart guy. Just looking to start a dialogue between cops and the public....
Here's the cop that wrote the above letter to LeBron. Very level-headed and smart guy. Just looking to start a dialogue between cops and the public....
How dare you? I prefer to get my news from the Washington Post where they teach me how to film police encounters so I can "stay in control of the narrative". How does this in any way help move the conversation along?
Comments
"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."
Seriously, people are defending him, saying this was harassment? Did he even know why the cop was approaching him? If not, it doesn't even matter it was over j-walking. If so, then that's a bit of an over-reaction.
I've said the situation probably could have been diffused, the cop probably had better options, the cop probably was in the wrong. But no one here can say the victim shares in responsibility for pulling a knife on a cop for merely just approaching him?
If we can't agree that a cop has a right to approach someone who violated traffic laws (Is that a traffic law? I dont know - But I'm not even saying ticket, but just approach) and if we cant at least put some blame on the victim for pulling a lethal weapon for being approached, and being approached equals harassment, then I don't think there's any hope for police reform and change if we can't even give an inch to say don't pull a knife. And if that's the case, I'm pretty much done discussing this and ready to enjoy my weekend!
Be more narrow minded.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
maybe if some Karen complained about you thinking it was weird that a lone man was in the same vicinity as her kids, I guess maybe, but still. that's a bit much.
www.headstonesband.com
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Uhmm maybe police reforms do work
I’m a cop. The Chauvin verdict is a message for me, and for my colleagues.
Police officers can’t be defensive. We owe it to those we serve to change policing — and slow down.
I was at work as a police officer when the judge announced the jurors’ verdict Tuesday in a Minneapolis courtroom. I am a violent-crimes detective in my hometown of Savannah, Ga., but like the rest of America, I was worried about the verdict. I was worried that once again, a jury would, despite clear video evidence of guilt, find that it was somehow reasonable for a minor criminal matter to end in the death of an unarmed suspect at the hands of a police officer.
But I was also worried that we would view the outcome as the conclusion of a trial and not the beginning of change. Because as powerful as the murder conviction of former police officer Derek Chauvin is, what we do next — as a country in general and as police in particular — will go a long way in determining whether systemic positive police reform is possible. It is in this time immediately after the verdict that several things, which are entirely within my control as a police officer, have to happen.
The first thing is actually something that needs to not happen: Police must not be defensive. We must not circle the wagons. “Not all cops” is exactly the wrong reaction. Even though that is true — of course not all cops are bad — it is irrelevant. Systemic reform is inseparable from individual change. We need both, and they have to feed off each other. There will be a natural desire by police, myself included, to say that the system worked, that Chauvin was found guilty by a jury of his peers and that a bad apple was sent to jail, no longer around to rot the bunch. Again, this is true, but it is also irrelevant. A nation so tense about a single trial, so uncertain about what was going to happen, is a nation in desperate need of much more. And we all have to take a first step. For me, the first step is that I need to take this verdict personally if I am to change professionally: That means I need to empathize more with my neighbors, and if they’re outraged or sad or just weary from police interactions — theirs and others’ — I need to work from that space. It means these outrages aren’t just outrageous to my profession, they’re outrageous to me personally. It means to step out of comfortable anonymity and demand that we change it all.
A cop like me should be a neighbor, not an enemy combatant
Here’s the second thing that needs to happen: We police need to fight the destructive reaction we have resorted to before in places like New York, where members of the police union had an unofficial but announced slowdown in 2019 after the dismissal of an officer implicated in the killing of Eric Garner by police in 2014. We have to stop saying, in effect, that if we can’t do our job the way we have always done it, well then, we won’t do our job at all. We might still collect a paycheck, but we will stop a lot of work because of an exaggerated fear of running afoul of the “new rules.” Rules such as “Don’t treat your neighbors like robots of compliance,” “Don’t escalate trivial matters into life-or-death confrontations” and “Treat your neighbors as if they were your neighbors.” That anyone would consider these rules “new” is a problem in itself. Few police officers reading them aloud would take issue with such anodyne statements, but put accountability behind the statements and now they’re an attack, not just on all police but the very foundation of American policing. The truth is that we do not get to tell our neighbors — those whose communities we police — how we will do our job. They tell us.
Faced with criticism that perhaps police should not be turning a traffic stop over an unarmed person’s vehicle registration sticker into something to be resolved at gunpoint, some will say, “What are the police supposed to do, let all criminals just run away?” There is a lot wrong with that reaction. To begin with, let’s slow down on calling someone with registration issues a criminal. And then let’s slow down everything, because we police are rushing to make bad decisions when time is almost always our friend. Tamir Rice most likely would not have been killed for having a toy gun if the Cleveland police officers had not rushed right up to him and shot him. There was no violence going on; the 12-year-old was alone in the middle of a park. Slow down, I tell myself in almost every police encounter. The risk to my neighbors in my rushing to a final judgment in very uncertain and fluid situations far outweighs the risk to myself. I’m often wrong in the initial assessment of chaotic scenes, and so I try to be wrong silently, allowing my judgment to catch up to my reactions, to allow my perception to catch up with my vision. Slow down.
Reform movements can’t last without hope. The Chauvin jury gave us some.
I don’t know the third thing that needs to happen to lay the foundation for sweeping positive change in American policing because I’m so focused on the first two. I’m worried. I’m even scared. Not of big changes but that they might not happen. There is nothing easy or comfortable about any of this. To change policing in America requires confronting issues of race, poverty, inequality, injustice — the very issues too many in America say aren’t even issues anymore, as if history and its terrible weight started today.
I believe I was wrong for some time about not taking this personally. I’ve often told myself to not take well-deserved criticism of police misconduct and crime personally, because while as a police officer I am responsible, I was not personally responsible. I even wrote about this very thing here last year after the murder of George Floyd. I meant that I must not get defensive and to accept responsibility even if I wasn’t to blame. But now I don’t think that’s enough, at least for me. I think I have to take it personally: I have to be offended, I have to be outraged, and I have to act. That means I need to understand the goal of every 911 call, and that the compliance of those I encounter is not a goal; it might be a path to a goal but it’s not the goal. It means putting my neighbors first at every instance. It means often to act slower, to give my neighbors the benefit of the doubt because they are the point of my job.
None of this is abstract, none of this is a metaphor. All of this is senseless death in needlessly life-or-death situations. And all of this is personal.
I was at work when the verdict came in; I’ll be at work tomorrow, taking this verdict personally because my neighbors demand it. And they have always deserved it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
www.headstonesband.com
In case after case, it took only a split second for an officer to pull the trigger.
Adam Toledo, a 13-year-old in Chicago, had tossed away a handgun and begun raising his hands. Ma’Khia Bryant, a 16-year-old in Columbus, Ohio, lunged with a knife at another teenager. Tyrell Wilson, a 33-year-old mentally ill homeless man in Danville, California, had a knife in hand when he shouted “Kill me” at an approaching deputy sheriff.
All three were among more than 100 people shot and killed by police over the previous six weeks.
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
BTW, Elizabeth City is a beautiful city, that I've driven through on my way to Greensboro. This is one case to keep up with, stat tuned
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
"DC Cops Crash Their Cruisers Drag Racing Each Other On Duty" https://www.thedrive.com/news/40333/dc-cops-crash-their-cruisers-drag-racing-each-other-on-duty
✌
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
ELIZABETH CITY, N.C. (AP) — A Black man killed by deputies in North Carolina was shot in the back of the head and had his hands on his car steering wheel when they opened fire, attorneys for his family said Monday after relatives viewed body camera footage.
The account was the first description of the shooting of Andrew Brown Jr., who was killed by deputies serving drug-related search and arrest warrants. His death last Wednesday led to nightly protests and demands for justice in the town of Elizabeth City. Authorities have released few details, and the video has not been made public.
Attorney Chantel Cherry-Lassiter watched a 20-second portion of body camera video with Brown's family. Lassiter said Brown did not appear to be a threat to officers as he backed his vehicle out of his driveway and tried to drive away from deputies with guns drawn.
"There was no time in the 20 seconds that we saw where he was threatening the officers in any kind of way," she told reporters at a news conference.
When asked whether Brown was shot in the back, attorney Harry Daniels said, “Yes, back of the head.”
An eyewitness account and emergency scanner traffic had previously indicated Brown was shot in the back as he tried to drive away.
“My dad got executed just by trying to save his own life,” said Brown’s adult son Khalil Ferebee, who watched the video.
Lassiter, who watched the video multiple times and took notes, said the shooting started as soon as the video began and that she lost count of the number of gunshots fired by law enforcement officers armed with rifles and handguns. She said she counted as many as eight deputies in the video, some wearing tactical uniforms and some in plainclothes.
“They’re shooting and saying ‘Let me see your hands’ at the same time,” she said. She added: “Let’s be clear. This was an execution.”
The family’s lawyers were also angry about what they described as rude treatment by Pasquotank County Attorney R. Michael Cox, to whom they attributed the decision to limit the amount of footage shown. They criticized authorities for sharing only 20 seconds of video from a single body camera.
“They’re trying to hide something,” attorney Benjamin Crump said.
Attorney Bakari Sellers said Cox used profanity toward him. “I’ve never been talked to like I was talked to in there,” Sellers said.
Cox did not immediately respond to an email seeking comment.
Pasquotank County Sheriff Tommy Wooten II has said that multiple deputies fired shots. Seven deputies are on leave pending a probe by the State Bureau of Investigation.
In a video statement, the sheriff said Monday that Cox had filed a request to have the video released, which in North Carolina must be authorized by a judge. He asked for patience while the State Bureau of Investigation probes the case.
“This tragic incident was quick and over in less than 30 seconds, and body cameras are shaky and sometimes hard to decipher. They only tell part of the story,” he said.
Earlier Monday, a search warrant was released that indicated investigators had recorded Brown selling small amounts of cocaine and methamphetamine to an informant. Crump argued that authorities were trying to release negative information about Brown while shielding themselves by holding back the video.
The warrant was sought by Wooten’s office and signed by a judge to allow the search of Brown’s Elizabeth City home. It said that an investigator in nearby Dare County was told by the informant that the person had been purchasing crack cocaine and other drugs from Brown for over a year. The informant described purchasing drugs at the house that was the target of the search.
In March, narcotics officers used the informant to conduct controlled purchases of methamphetamine and cocaine from Brown on two separate occasions, according to the warrant, which said both drug transactions were recorded using audio and video equipment.
The search warrant said investigators believed Brown was storing drugs in the home or two vehicles. The document, which indicated the search was not completed, did not list anything found.
Two arrest warrants released last week charged him with possession with intent to sell and deliver 3 grams of each of the drugs.
Calls have been growing to release the body camera footage. A coalition of media organizations have sought the footage, and city officials plan to do so as well.
Short of releasing it publicly, state law allows law enforcement to show body camera video privately to a victim’s family.
Also Monday, Elizabeth City officials declared a state of emergency amid concerns about how demonstrators would react to a possible video release. Protests since the shooting in the eastern North Carolina town of about 18,000 have generally been peaceful.
Danielle McCalla, who grew up in Elizabeth City before recently moving to Virginia, joined demonstrators who came to watch the news conference by the family attorneys. She said it left her in tears.
“As soon as they started going into details, I started crying,” she said. McCalla, 30, said she met Brown and had several conversations with him, making her sad about what’s happening in her hometown and about police shootings elsewhere.
“It’s the same thing that keeps happening,” she said. “It’s a bigger monster than we think it is.”
___
Drew reported from Durham, North Carolina.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
So something has to change. Don't try running/fleeing from the cops would be a good start. The other would be that cops should holster their guns longer and a different training approach should be done.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
At the same time we need to change policing. That would hopefully bring about positive change.
www.headstonesband.com
Dear Lebron:
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
California Man Dies After Officers Pin Him to Ground for 5 Minutes
The death of Mario Arenales Gonzalez came one day before a former Minneapolis officer was convicted of murdering George Floyd. Body camera footage was released on Tuesday.
By Will Wright
Body camera footage was released on Tuesday of a 26-year-old man who died in police custody after officers in Alameda County, Calif., pinned him facedown on the ground for five minutes.
The footage from the Alameda Police Department shows the man, Mario Arenales Gonzalez, becoming unresponsive while in handcuffs and police officers quickly beginning chest compressions.
Mr. Gonzalez died on April 19, one day before Derek Chauvin, a former Minneapolis police officer, was convicted of murdering George Floyd by restraining him for nine minutes and 29 seconds, holding him to the pavement with his knee long after Mr. Floyd had become unresponsive.
An initial police report from Alameda, south of Oakland, said that “a physical altercation ensued” when officers tried to detain Mr. Gonzalez and that “at that time, the man had a medical emergency.” The report said Mr. Gonzalez had died in a hospital later that day.
Julia Sherwin, a lawyer representing Mr. Gonzalez’s family, called the explanation “misinformation,” comparing it to the initial police report after Mr. Floyd’s death. Mr. Gonzalez’s family was also concerned with why the police used force in the first place, Ms. Sherwin said.
“His death was completely avoidable and unnecessary,” she said, adding, “Drunk guy in a park doesn’t equal a capital sentence.”
At a news conference on Tuesday, Gerardo Gonzalez said his brother had not been posing any threat when he died.
“Alameda police officers murdered my brother,” he said.
Three police officers have been placed on administrative leave, and the Alameda County Sheriff’s Office and the Alameda County District Attorney’s Office are both conducting independent investigations. The city of Alameda has also hired Louise Renne, the former city attorney for San Francisco and a former president of the San Francisco Police Commission, to conduct its own investigation.
In addition to the body camera footage, the city released two audio recordings from people who had called 911 to report a Hispanic man later identified as Mr. Gonzalez.
One man says Mr. Gonzalez has been loitering for about a half-hour and appears to be breaking store security tags off alcohol bottles. Another man says Mr. Gonzalez is talking to himself at a fence near the caller’s backyard. “He seems like he’s tweaking, but he’s not doing anything wrong,” he says. “He’s just scaring my wife.”
In the body camera footage, the first officer at the scene asks on his radio whether a nearby store has reported any recent thefts, describing Mr. Gonzalez, who has two Walgreens shopping baskets.
The officer, who identifies himself as Officer McKinley, then continues to speak with Mr. Gonzalez, asking whether he knows Alameda and whether he is thinking of hurting himself or others. Mr. Gonzalez struggles to maintain the conversation or provide his name.
Another officer arrives about seven minutes after the first officer.
“Here’s the plan,” the first officer says. “I’ve got to identify you, so I know who I’m talking to — make sure you don’t have any warrants or anything like that. You come up with a plan, let me know you’re not going to be drinking in our parks over here. And then we can be on our merry way.”
“Merry-go-round?” Mr. Gonzalez replies.
The two officers then ask Mr. Gonzalez for identification and tell him to keep his hands out of his pockets before they begin trying to detain him.
“Can you please put your hand behind your back and stop resisting us?” the second officer says after several minutes.
The officers eventually push Mr. Gonzalez to the ground facedown and handcuff him. “What are we going to do?” the first officer asks. “Just keep him pinned down?”
“It’s OK, Mario,” the officer later says. “We’re going to take care of you.”
The first officer asks for Mr. Gonzalez’s last name and his birthday and tells him to keep talking. He answers in whimpered bursts and later begins grunting. At one point, he seems to say, “Please don’t do it.”
After about four and a half minutes of body camera footage showing Mr. Gonzalez pinned to the ground, a third officer is seen on his legs. When one officer asks if they should roll him on his side, another replies, “I don’t want to lose what I got.”
“We have no weight on his chest, nothing,” the second officer observes, pointing to Mr. Gonzalez’s back. As the first officer tries to adjust his position, the second says: “No, no, no. No weight, no weight, no weight.”
Seconds later, the officers notice that Mr. Gonzalez has become unresponsive. They roll him onto his side and then push him onto his back and begin chest compressions after checking for a pulse.
After emergency medical workers respond, the first officer explains that they administered Narcan, which can reverse overdoses. “He went from combative to nonresponsive almost immediately,” he says.
Several experts testified during Mr. Chauvin’s trial that the prone position was dangerous because it could impair breathing and that officers should put people they are detaining onto their sides as quickly as possible.
The three officers put on leave were Eric McKinley, Cameron Leahy and James Fisher, a city spokeswoman said on Tuesday. When asked for more details about the death of Mr. Gonzalez, she pointed to the Police Department’s previous news releases about the encounter.
Will Wright is a national reporting fellow. He has reported from Oregon, Louisiana, Texas and Kentucky. He previously covered eastern Kentucky for the Lexington Herald-Leader. @NYT_Wright
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How dare you? I prefer to get my news from the Washington Post where they teach me how to film police encounters so I can "stay in control of the narrative". How does this in any way help move the conversation along?