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Police abuse

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 11,604
    You don't need a TV.  All you need is a smartphone and you get TV x 1000
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

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  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 322
    edited April 22
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/columbus-police-fatally-shoot-person-222318319.html Well today they killed a 15 year old black girl who reportedly called them for help.  And people wonder why Defund the Police is a thing.  What a sad country.  Floyd’s murderer is held accountable, but the cop killings of black people continue
    Anybody watch this video?

    Girl tries knifing another girl, girl gets kicked while down by a guy.

    The guy is lucky he wasn't shot.

    I don't know about this one...
    According to some reports the girl called the police because four other girls were coming after her and she grabbed a knife to defend herself against four others.  Also she is a kid.
    Kids can't kill, hurt or maim?

    A different girl gets kicked, not with the knife. I can only go by what I see.  Hindsight is out the window.

    Should the girl have been shot?  She was trying to knife someone else.  Does the cop let her do that and then be called out for NOT doing something?

    It's a lose lose here.

    What would you have the cop do?
    Assess the situation like the other three in scene that didn’t come out guns blazing...
    And while you're assessing a girl is getting stabbed to death.
    Going back to stand your ground. If this is a gang of girls that are threatening her, does she not have a right to self defense?  It’s crazy that the default is always finding a way to justify cops when often times the official story is something like this...
    how any of you have faith in the police at this point is beyond me.
    I don't know how much self defense it is. All the details haven't been released, but where did she get the knife? Does she illegally carry? Or what probably happened is she goes inside, gets a knife, and comes back out for another confrontation. At that point, its not self defense, the police have a right to intervene. 
    I'm sure you'd be happy for the police if it was your daughter than was about 1/10 of a second away from being stabbed. 
    I’m not gonna go Matt Gaetz here, but my step daughter is half black, and likely the police would never give her the benefit of the doubt. I’ve been co parenting her since she was three.  Do I need to start teaching her it isn’t ok to stick up for herself or call the cops if she is in trouble? Because that’s what it’s starting to look like. Unlike some armchair quarterbacks here this shit affects my house and family.  Last summer she asked my wife and I in tears if police would kill her biological dad.  Imagine having that conversation with an 8 year old.  She isn’t getting this from the media I assure you, we don’t own a TV.  Part of parenting has become having these conversations on the regular and it is exhausting.  

    This isn’t some woke exercise based on a white old lady giving a corporate race training for some of us. It affects our families and close friends and loved ones.  

    If you aren’t affected by any of this and it’s just a philosophical issue, the chances are you dont have black or minority friends and family and don’t belong to any of those groups.

    So as a father to a Black girl I  am gonna say the cops were in no way justified here.

    Those like static are the people we need to listen to, speak with, and trust. I can’t possibly comment on his truth because it’s not my truth.  I did not face this challenge when raising my children so I cannot dismiss this, this is his families reality.  
    When those who truly know speak we should all listen. We can ask questions but in doing so we can’t deny the answers. 

    I’m not saying anyone is doing that here
    Just saying listen in order to better understand. 
    Don’t listen to me, for the love of god listen to your Black friends, family and co-workers. 
    I didn’t mean anything derogatory....but I still think you know better than most of us
    Sooo sorry if I offended you, it was definitely not my intention
    I’m not offended at all. Just underlining the fact that it is way more important to listen to the Black loved ones in your life than some white dude on the PJ message boards.  I got your meaning and appreciate it, but the real understanding comes from talking to the people that are the most affected by the racism problem in our country and policing.  It usually means having very hard and awkward conversations, but helps come to a greater understanding.
    That’s why I posted 
    “When those who truly know speak we should all listen.”  So I thought I wrote it to include many, many people 
    Unfortunately you may be the only person some of these people know who have contact with black Americans.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,666
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/columbus-police-fatally-shoot-person-222318319.html Well today they killed a 15 year old black girl who reportedly called them for help.  And people wonder why Defund the Police is a thing.  What a sad country.  Floyd’s murderer is held accountable, but the cop killings of black people continue
    Anybody watch this video?

    Girl tries knifing another girl, girl gets kicked while down by a guy.

    The guy is lucky he wasn't shot.

    I don't know about this one...
    According to some reports the girl called the police because four other girls were coming after her and she grabbed a knife to defend herself against four others.  Also she is a kid.
    Kids can't kill, hurt or maim?

    A different girl gets kicked, not with the knife. I can only go by what I see.  Hindsight is out the window.

    Should the girl have been shot?  She was trying to knife someone else.  Does the cop let her do that and then be called out for NOT doing something?

    It's a lose lose here.

    What would you have the cop do?
    Assess the situation like the other three in scene that didn’t come out guns blazing...
    And while you're assessing a girl is getting stabbed to death.
    Going back to stand your ground. If this is a gang of girls that are threatening her, does she not have a right to self defense?  It’s crazy that the default is always finding a way to justify cops when often times the official story is something like this...
    how any of you have faith in the police at this point is beyond me.
    I don't know how much self defense it is. All the details haven't been released, but where did she get the knife? Does she illegally carry? Or what probably happened is she goes inside, gets a knife, and comes back out for another confrontation. At that point, its not self defense, the police have a right to intervene. 
    I'm sure you'd be happy for the police if it was your daughter than was about 1/10 of a second away from being stabbed. 
    I’m not gonna go Matt Gaetz here, but my step daughter is half black, and likely the police would never give her the benefit of the doubt. I’ve been co parenting her since she was three.  Do I need to start teaching her it isn’t ok to stick up for herself or call the cops if she is in trouble? Because that’s what it’s starting to look like. Unlike some armchair quarterbacks here this shit affects my house and family.  Last summer she asked my wife and I in tears if police would kill her biological dad.  Imagine having that conversation with an 8 year old.  She isn’t getting this from the media I assure you, we don’t own a TV.  Part of parenting has become having these conversations on the regular and it is exhausting.  

    This isn’t some woke exercise based on a white old lady giving a corporate race training for some of us. It affects our families and close friends and loved ones.  

    If you aren’t affected by any of this and it’s just a philosophical issue, the chances are you dont have black or minority friends and family and don’t belong to any of those groups.

    So as a father to a Black girl I  am gonna say the cops were in no way justified here.

    Those like static are the people we need to listen to, speak with, and trust. I can’t possibly comment on his truth because it’s not my truth.  I did not face this challenge when raising my children so I cannot dismiss this, this is his families reality.  
    When those who truly know speak we should all listen. We can ask questions but in doing so we can’t deny the answers. 

    I’m not saying anyone is doing that here
    Just saying listen in order to better understand. 
    Don’t listen to me, for the love of god listen to your Black friends, family and co-workers. 
    I didn’t mean anything derogatory....but I still think you know better than most of us
    Sooo sorry if I offended you, it was definitely not my intention
    I’m not offended at all. Just underlining the fact that it is way more important to listen to the Black loved ones in your life than some white dude on the PJ message boards.  I got your meaning and appreciate it, but the real understanding comes from talking to the people that are the most affected by the racism problem in our country and policing.  It usually means having very hard and awkward conversations, but helps come to a greater understanding.
    I ask questions all the time.  I am surprised at the answers I get sometimes too.

    What I don't have is an Asian friend to ask what they think about all the violence happening towards the Asian/Chinese people going on country wide right now.
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,200
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,063
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,974

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,037
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,664
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.
    Yeah but it does bring on skepticism to not release it. The Columbus, OH police released the bodycam of the girl with a knife being shot as a way to circumvent false narratives. Like "Here it is, she was about to stab the girl in the pink." Here, who knows what happened?
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,037
    I think there were some big mistakes in the Chauvan trial. I never agreed with sequestering a jury before, but I think this one should have been. I will be surprised if he doesn't win an appeal and this is all repeated again.
    A pig head and blood spread over the former house of a defense witness. Public comments by politicians and celebrities. The constant media coverage. I don't know how anyone couldn't agree that they likely were influenced or possibly intimidated. I know had I been a juror I would have feared for my family had I voted for anything less than murder. I will be surprised if he doesn't get an appeal and there is round 2. Emotions will probably be even higher next time if he's out on appeal. 
    Thats why I dont think releasing body cam is a good idea until after a trial or charges are dropped. Keep it for the courtroom, release it when its done. 
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,200
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.


    There's nothing that stops the local convenient store from releasing their security footage.

    There's nothing that stops the local onlooker from releasing their camera-phone footage.

    Why is the police body-cam footage any different? (hint: because it's incriminating)

    Evidence is evidence.  More is better.  Sooner is better.
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,037
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.


    There's nothing that stops the local convenient store from releasing their security footage.

    There's nothing that stops the local onlooker from releasing their camera-phone footage.

    Why is the police body-cam footage any different? (hint: because it's incriminating)

    Evidence is evidence.  More is better.  Sooner is better.
    All that is true. But just because others do it that makes it okay? And not every instance has other video. I do think it should be made public for transparency. I just don’t think it should happen before an investigation or trial.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,037
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.
    Yeah but it does bring on skepticism to not release it. The Columbus, OH police released the bodycam of the girl with a knife being shot as a way to circumvent false narratives. Like "Here it is, she was about to stab the girl in the pink." Here, who knows what happened?
    You think the stabbing is a false narrative? Looks to me like she was about 0.5 seconds away from stabbing that girl with a 6” knife. I don’t know how a video created a false narrative. Video should do the opposite, you can see for yourself and make your own decision.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,664
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.
    Yeah but it does bring on skepticism to not release it. The Columbus, OH police released the bodycam of the girl with a knife being shot as a way to circumvent false narratives. Like "Here it is, she was about to stab the girl in the pink." Here, who knows what happened?
    You think the stabbing is a false narrative? Looks to me like she was about 0.5 seconds away from stabbing that girl with a 6” knife. I don’t know how a video created a false narrative. Video should do the opposite, you can see for yourself and make your own decision.
    No. I'm saying they put out the video so that there wouldn't be false narratives.
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,037
    edited April 23
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.
    Yeah but it does bring on skepticism to not release it. The Columbus, OH police released the bodycam of the girl with a knife being shot as a way to circumvent false narratives. Like "Here it is, she was about to stab the girl in the pink." Here, who knows what happened?
    You think the stabbing is a false narrative? Looks to me like she was about 0.5 seconds away from stabbing that girl with a 6” knife. I don’t know how a video created a false narrative. Video should do the opposite, you can see for yourself and make your own decision.
    No. I'm saying they put out the video so that there wouldn't be false narratives.
    Ok, yeah I agree. I’m assuming the higher ups saw the video, saw the shooting likely saved another girls life. Decided charges likely would not be filed and quickly released it for the reason you just said.
    Still didn’t stop the false narratives though. By that I mean many media sources downplaying a 6” knife like that’s part of every schoolyard fight every day.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,664
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.
    Yeah but it does bring on skepticism to not release it. The Columbus, OH police released the bodycam of the girl with a knife being shot as a way to circumvent false narratives. Like "Here it is, she was about to stab the girl in the pink." Here, who knows what happened?
    You think the stabbing is a false narrative? Looks to me like she was about 0.5 seconds away from stabbing that girl with a 6” knife. I don’t know how a video created a false narrative. Video should do the opposite, you can see for yourself and make your own decision.
    No. I'm saying they put out the video so that there wouldn't be false narratives.
    Ok, yeah I agree. I’m assuming the higher ups saw the video, saw the shooting likely saved another girls life. Decided charges likely would not be filed and quickly released it for the reason you just said.
    Still didn’t stop the false narratives though. By that I mean many media sources downplaying a 6” knife like that’s part of every schoolyard fight every day.
    Oh yeah, I've seen some of that coverage and it's been ridiculous. 
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,698
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,037
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,200
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.


    There's nothing that stops the local convenient store from releasing their security footage.

    There's nothing that stops the local onlooker from releasing their camera-phone footage.

    Why is the police body-cam footage any different? (hint: because it's incriminating)

    Evidence is evidence.  More is better.  Sooner is better.
    All that is true. But just because others do it that makes it okay? And not every instance has other video. I do think it should be made public for transparency. I just don’t think it should happen before an investigation or trial.

    Why not?

    People are able to craft their own opinions, are they not?

    What does it matter if it's released right away?

    By not releasing it, it gives police a chance to lie like they did in the Floyd case. To craft their own narrative. To build their defense and sway the jury before trial starts.

    All police body cam footage should be released immediately. There's absolutely no reason not to. 
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,402
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.


    There's nothing that stops the local convenient store from releasing their security footage.

    There's nothing that stops the local onlooker from releasing their camera-phone footage.

    Why is the police body-cam footage any different? (hint: because it's incriminating)

    Evidence is evidence.  More is better.  Sooner is better.
    All that is true. But just because others do it that makes it okay? And not every instance has other video. I do think it should be made public for transparency. I just don’t think it should happen before an investigation or trial.

    Why not?

    People are able to craft their own opinions, are they not?

    What does it matter if it's released right away?

    By not releasing it, it gives police a chance to lie like they did in the Floyd case. To craft their own narrative. To build their defense and sway the jury before trial starts.

    All police body cam footage should be released immediately. There's absolutely no reason not to. 
    100% agree.  The protection of bad cops needs to stop now. Also Floyds death was caught on video by a bystander. Who knows what would have happened if they were not there with a crowd of people witnessing and released the footage. I would bet that this would have been the end of it. 





    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 14,833
    CM189191 said:
    static111 said:

    "State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

    This is unacceptable
    wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?
    Ummm not necessarily. I would imagine the biggest reason is for the department.  

    That said - to NEVER release it you would have to have some very solid reasons I would think. But I could certainly see the link I not having access for a while 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,698
    mace1229 said:
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
    Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,037
    mace1229 said:
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
    Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
    I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
    Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,402
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
    Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
    I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
    Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
    Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 


    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,698
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
    Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
    I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
    Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
    Yes, but it’s also a bad idea to harass someone for jay walking or to use it as an excuse to engage someone. It’s like looking for a reason to have a confrontation so you can pad your arrest numbers. Did he say “kill me?” Why didn’t he tase the guy? Why is it always shoot first, then remember the three previous steps of escalation of violence protocol? Did the cop walk right up to him to engage him and invade his personal space? I thought cops were trained to maintain a safe distance upon initial engagement? Did he call for back up? At what point in the confrontation did he activate his body camera? Sure, all the responsibility of police/civilian interactions falls on the civilian. Just comply. 

    Nine shots to kill a “suspicious person,” sounds to me like this cop had a lot of self control issues.
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  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 4,879
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
    Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
    I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
    Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
    Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 


    I've spoken with people who attempted suicide by cop. They were grateful the cops opted for more appropriate measures to subdue them as opposed fulfilling their wishes.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,981
    mace1229 said:
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
    Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
    Yikes, I don't know why anyone would bother defending this shitty cop. It's unfortunate the department did not do something about him after the 2018 shooting that already seemed sketchy. This seems like a cop who dabbles in the gray areas of use of force and found 2 instances where he could be "justified" for his actions even though both seem like lethal force was not necessary. These are the types of cops who need to be removed from the job. I don't have an issue with a police officer enforcing or making contact with people violating laws, but their approach to the situation plays as much of a part in how it ends as the accused actions in response to them. There is a world of difference between responding to a violent incident in progress like we saw in OH and a cop initiating contact during a non-violent law violation. That doesn't mean there can't be a reason for justified lethal force, but these situations don't seem that way at all.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,037
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
    Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
    I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
    Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
    Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 


    It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,698
    mace1229 said:
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
    Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
    I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
    Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
    Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 


    It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
    Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,037
    edited April 23
    mace1229 said:
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html
    I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."
    Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.
    I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
    Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?
    Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 


    It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.
    Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.
    He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. 
    The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking. 
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