In my simple mind comes down to if officers life being imminently threatened. In US the line is skewed from rest of western countries. So can understand the outrage. Can sympathize with American cops as well.
As to this case think the cops could have done better but don't have all the facts.
Wether you feel it's justified or not, if you reach for an Officers gun in The USA there is a real good chance you will meet your maker. And If you live to tell the tale you are looking at atleast 10-20 for attempt murder of a Police Officer. So don't do it, bat shit crazy or not.
Yes, die. It's a fucking cop. He's not going to shoot you if you don't reach for his or your gun. Just don't be stupid and the chances of you living increase.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I was thinking, it's not so much about "deserve to die" in this situation (if it indeed occurred as seen). It's more about if you do X, then it's likely Y or Z will happen. Consequences for actions, no matter whom.
I was thinking, it's not so much about "deserve to die" in this situation (if it indeed occurred as seen). It's more about if you do X, then it's likely Y or Z will happen. Consequences for actions, no matter whom.
the fed's report on the ferguson cops says exactly what everyone in st louis thought it would say.
systemic racist policies and procedures.
67% of the population of Ferguson is black. 93% of all arrests are black. 90% of traffic tickets are black. 85% of all traffic stops are black. 85% of viloence against citizens are black.
Those numbers can say one of two things. 1) there is systemic rasists policies or 2) officers patrol black areas of the city more than white neighborhoods.
the fed's report on the ferguson cops says exactly what everyone in st louis thought it would say.
systemic racist policies and procedures.
67% of the population of Ferguson is black. 93% of all arrests are black. 90% of traffic tickets are black. 85% of all traffic stops are black. 85% of viloence against citizens are black.
Those numbers can say one of two things. 1) there is systemic rasists policies or 2) officers patrol black areas of the city more than white neighborhoods.
I think you must also post the % of crimes committed by people of color.Some of the above numbers will most likely fall into a clearer perspective .That is not a pass by any means for the FPD.Accountability is paramount.
What I was trying to say is that the numbers given can be interpreted in a few different ways. One group of people can say anything that the department is racist . Another group could say black people commit more crime. And another could say that the police have a larger presence in black neighborhoods.
What I was trying to say is that the numbers given can be interpreted in a few different ways. One group of people can say anything that the department is racist . Another group could say black people commit more crime. And another could say that the police have a larger presence in black neighborhoods.
Wether you feel it's justified or not, if you reach for an Officers gun in The USA there is a real good chance you will meet your maker. And If you live to tell the tale you are looking at atleast 10-20 for attempt murder of a Police Officer. So don't do it, bat shit crazy or not.
Then cops shouldn't have put gun close to dude. In London this guy would still be alive.
I was thinking, it's not so much about "deserve to die" in this situation (if it indeed occurred as seen). It's more about if you do X, then it's likely Y or Z will happen. Consequences for actions, no matter whom.
Right and police are seriously outnumbering this guy so their reaction allowed victims reaction. Look I get it but let's step back and maybe look if there are better ways to handle. Maybe not, I don't know just we should think about strategy cops use sometimes for certain situations. Four unarmed cops could of detained this person. Shot him in leg who knows....
Doing police work is so easy. All the critics of police on this forum- that seemingly have all day to peck away on their keyboards have it way tougher and know so much better.
In another thread, I came across a sobering story that speaks to the reality of police work. A retired cop took his own life because he simply could not move past the horrors he came across in the line of duty.
The 51-year-old member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is among 13 first responders who have killed themselves in the past 10 weeks, says the Tema Conter Memorial Trust, a group working to end the stigma of PTSD.
Wow. An impressive rate of decline for retired first responders.
Such an easy job.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I was thinking, it's not so much about "deserve to die" in this situation (if it indeed occurred as seen). It's more about if you do X, then it's likely Y or Z will happen. Consequences for actions, no matter whom.
Right and police are seriously outnumbering this guy so their reaction allowed victims reaction. Look I get it but let's step back and maybe look if there are better ways to handle. Maybe not, I don't know just we should think about strategy cops use sometimes for certain situations. Four unarmed cops could of detained this person. Shot him in leg who knows....
The guy - from news stories this morning - was convicted of and served time for armed robbery of a bank (to fund acting classes). Assumed another's identity as well, and violated parole.
I don't think having a number of officers approach this man was unreasonable. And then he retreats into his tent for whatever reason, then reaches for an officer's gun...
Also, they did initially take a less lethal approach and use the taser, which did nothing.
I was thinking, it's not so much about "deserve to die" in this situation (if it indeed occurred as seen). It's more about if you do X, then it's likely Y or Z will happen. Consequences for actions, no matter whom.
Right and police are seriously outnumbering this guy so their reaction allowed victims reaction. Look I get it but let's step back and maybe look if there are better ways to handle. Maybe not, I don't know just we should think about strategy cops use sometimes for certain situations. Four unarmed cops could of detained this person. Shot him in leg who knows....
The guy - from news stories this morning - was convicted of and served time for armed robbery of a bank (to fund acting classes). Assumed another's identity as well, and violated parole.
I don't think having a number of officers approach this man was unreasonable. And then he retreats into his tent for whatever reason, then reaches for an officer's gun...
Also, they did initially take a less lethal approach and use the taser, which did nothing.
Oh agree the more officers the better and I dont know all the facts. I do though feel if this happened in Europe the guy would still be alive.
I don't know why some of you think that the police should shoot people in the leg. Fuck that. Shoot to kill. If that guy gets his hands on that cops gun, do you think he's going to shoot to injure? I doubt it.
I was thinking, it's not so much about "deserve to die" in this situation (if it indeed occurred as seen). It's more about if you do X, then it's likely Y or Z will happen. Consequences for actions, no matter whom.
Right and police are seriously outnumbering this guy so their reaction allowed victims reaction. Look I get it but let's step back and maybe look if there are better ways to handle. Maybe not, I don't know just we should think about strategy cops use sometimes for certain situations. Four unarmed cops could of detained this person. Shot him in leg who knows....
The guy - from news stories this morning - was convicted of and served time for armed robbery of a bank (to fund acting classes). Assumed another's identity as well, and violated parole.
I don't think having a number of officers approach this man was unreasonable. And then he retreats into his tent for whatever reason, then reaches for an officer's gun...
Also, they did initially take a less lethal approach and use the taser, which did nothing.
Puts it a little more in context now.I saw that story also.
Doing police work is so easy. All the critics of police on this forum- that seemingly have all day to peck away on their keyboards have it way tougher and know so much better.
In another thread, I came across a sobering story that speaks to the reality of police work. A retired cop took his own life because he simply could not move past the horrors he came across in the line of duty.
The 51-year-old member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is among 13 first responders who have killed themselves in the past 10 weeks, says the Tema Conter Memorial Trust, a group working to end the stigma of PTSD.
Wow. An impressive rate of decline for retired first responders.
Such an easy job.
And, "Says the keyboard warrior never placed in a situation where he is threatened."
What's with the attitude hombre? You post here as much as anyone. You don't know what threatening situations the posters here place themselves in.
Are you caught in situations where you are the victim of police brutality? If the standard of an opinion carrying weight is dependent on firsthand experience, then how does your opinion carry weight when you are sitting behind a keyboard and not being harassed by police?
I was thinking, it's not so much about "deserve to die" in this situation (if it indeed occurred as seen). It's more about if you do X, then it's likely Y or Z will happen. Consequences for actions, no matter whom.
Right and police are seriously outnumbering this guy so their reaction allowed victims reaction. Look I get it but let's step back and maybe look if there are better ways to handle. Maybe not, I don't know just we should think about strategy cops use sometimes for certain situations. Four unarmed cops could of detained this person. Shot him in leg who knows....
The guy - from news stories this morning - was convicted of and served time for armed robbery of a bank (to fund acting classes). Assumed another's identity as well, and violated parole.
I don't think having a number of officers approach this man was unreasonable. And then he retreats into his tent for whatever reason, then reaches for an officer's gun...
Also, they did initially take a less lethal approach and use the taser, which did nothing.
So this justifies a kill? What happened to police where shooting to kill and not injure to detain is recommended force? Since when? It sure seems to be the norm of late, while years ago, shooting to kill was the last resort. This guy was in the face of 4 cops, supposedly reaching for a gun in close range of one of the officers while being tased. This equals KILL???? They couldn't shoot him in the leg to shock him? They wouldn't take this guy alive. They don't anymore. I agree with Callen, I wonder if this is how Europe handles these situations.
You guys wonder why I'm bent about cops and their poor behavior towards the very citizens they're supposed to protect. Because they have taken the humanity away from the police force of yesteryear; the human police that think they have to right to KILL if they're threatened. That is some fucked up humanity, right there.
And, honestly? Respect, in my opinion, is earned, not a given. If police think I'm going to respect them because society says I should, when they don't respect me? Fuck NO. Police are people too, and they are to treat people with respect just like we're supposed to respect them. If they think they're too good to be an equal human, as many do with their inflated egos, then respect goes out the door. This is the difference between cops now and cops of yesteryear.
I was thinking, it's not so much about "deserve to die" in this situation (if it indeed occurred as seen). It's more about if you do X, then it's likely Y or Z will happen. Consequences for actions, no matter whom.
Right and police are seriously outnumbering this guy so their reaction allowed victims reaction. Look I get it but let's step back and maybe look if there are better ways to handle. Maybe not, I don't know just we should think about strategy cops use sometimes for certain situations. Four unarmed cops could of detained this person. Shot him in leg who knows....
Couple facts you need 2 know. Cops are not paid to fight fair. Like it or not it's A JOB and our first priority is to make sure you and your partner/fellow officers get home safe to our familes. This unique job comes with a higher standard of accountability than most professions, although many of you Would disagree with me on that I am sure. Police get fired for countless of reasons on the Job and even more during our personal life's...we step on our dicks often off-duty and the media just eats it up. I will never forget my first day on the job when my salty old field training officer told me, "congratulations kid, you Are now closer than you ever have been in your life to going to jail Than becoming the police". He was absolutely right. Seen many in my day go to the PEN justly and for complete BS. The suggestion of shooting a suspect in the leg purposely is not an option. We are trained and required by law to use lethal force on a offender if we or a civilian are in fear for their life till the threat is eliminated which often times ends badly for offender. You state under oath in a court of law I just shot him in the leg to temporally maim him or fired a few warning shots in the air you will loose your job and go to jail most likely...It truely amazes me how people think police can dodge bullets or think the police should not shoot at anyone till fired upon, like we are some kind of fuckin super hero or something....sorry folks, it don't work That way although my childhood hero was Superman. Monday mournjng quarter backing is very easy, we all do it, but being in a 2 gun fights and 3 fights for my own service pistol has been the most stressful events in my life...time just stops and you feel like you are in the Matrix or something. Luckily for me my training kicked in and i won the battles. Also, you would find nobody to do this thankless job if you unarmed Police officers. That just would be suicidel for American Policing. Just my 2 cents worth from a now seasoned and salty ghetto cop, take it for what it's worth.
Comments
In my simple mind comes down to if officers life being imminently threatened. In US the line is skewed from rest of western countries. So can understand the outrage. Can sympathize with American cops as well.
As to this case think the cops could have done better but don't have all the facts.
Last 12 do I Fucking make sense here???? Jest.
the fed's report on the ferguson cops says exactly what everyone in st louis thought it would say.
systemic racist policies and procedures.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
93% of all arrests are black.
90% of traffic tickets are black.
85% of all traffic stops are black.
85% of viloence against citizens are black.
Those numbers can say one of two things. 1) there is systemic rasists policies or 2) officers patrol black areas of the city more than white neighborhoods.
In another thread, I came across a sobering story that speaks to the reality of police work. A retired cop took his own life because he simply could not move past the horrors he came across in the line of duty.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/17/six-years-after-vince-li-beheaded-a-greyhound-passenger-another-death-mountie-at-the-scene-commits-suicide/
The 51-year-old member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is among 13 first responders who have killed themselves in the past 10 weeks, says the Tema Conter Memorial Trust, a group working to end the stigma of PTSD.
Wow. An impressive rate of decline for retired first responders.
Such an easy job.
I don't think having a number of officers approach this man was unreasonable. And then he retreats into his tent for whatever reason, then reaches for an officer's gun...
Also, they did initially take a less lethal approach and use the taser, which did nothing.
"Says the keyboard warrior never placed in a situation where he is threatened."
What's with the attitude hombre?
You post here as much as anyone.
You don't know what threatening situations the posters here place themselves in.
Are you caught in situations where you are the victim of police brutality? If the standard of an opinion carrying weight is dependent on firsthand experience, then how does your opinion carry weight when you are sitting behind a keyboard and not being harassed by police?
You guys wonder why I'm bent about cops and their poor behavior towards the very citizens they're supposed to protect. Because they have taken the humanity away from the police force of yesteryear; the human police that think they have to right to KILL if they're threatened. That is some fucked up humanity, right there.
And, honestly? Respect, in my opinion, is earned, not a given. If police think I'm going to respect them because society says I should, when they don't respect me? Fuck NO. Police are people too, and they are to treat people with respect just like we're supposed to respect them. If they think they're too good to be an equal human, as many do with their inflated egos, then respect goes out the door. This is the difference between cops now and cops of yesteryear.
The suggestion of shooting a suspect in the leg purposely is not an option. We are trained and required by law to use lethal force on a offender if we or a civilian are in fear for their life till the threat is eliminated which often times ends badly for offender. You state under oath in a court of law I just shot him in the leg to temporally maim him or fired a few warning shots in the air you will loose your job and go to jail most likely...It truely amazes me how people think police can dodge bullets or think the police should not shoot at anyone till fired upon, like we are some kind of fuckin super hero or something....sorry folks, it don't work That way although my childhood hero was Superman. Monday mournjng quarter backing is very easy, we all do it, but being in a 2 gun fights and 3 fights for my own service pistol has been the most stressful events in my life...time just stops and you feel like you are in the Matrix or something. Luckily for me my training kicked in and i won the battles.
Also, you would find nobody to do this thankless job if you unarmed Police officers. That just would be suicidel for American Policing. Just my 2 cents worth from a now seasoned and salty ghetto cop, take it for what it's worth.