Police abuse

Idris

badbrains said:

Remember people, you have the RIGHT to video tape any police officers as long as you're not in their way doing their job. They CANT take your phones or cameras away.

But we should keep in mind, that just because we have the 'right', does not mean that we will be allowed that 'right'. Sometimes we just need to take it (that 'right') and suffer the potential immediate consequences. (which I did not do in my story below)

I was sorta pulled over by a police officer the other week, things got heated.

It got to a point where I simply told the officer, "at this point sir, I'd like to start recording this with my cell phone", he told me, "touch it and I'll take you to jail".

I really did not have time to spend the night in jail, so I did not pick up my cell phone.

It may of been my 'right', but that 'right' woulda got me locked up, sure at a later point I'd come out on top in court or whatever, but in that moment I chose not to 'fight' in that way.

However, after getn out of my car, I verbally let the Officer have it, I cited law, history and a bunch of other good stuff.

Anyway, by the end, he shook my hand and let me go. I don't think he's comes across many people who question his actions like I did that afternoon.

I think I also embarrassed him in front of a female officer who was also present, and who took 'my side'.
-
I ordered a dash cam for my car when I got home.

hedonist

Wow. Messed up, but good for you, Idris.

Sad anyone has to get to the point of dash-camming, but understandable. Kudos for keeping a level head.

(and I'm dying to know what you sort of got pulled over for, but figure you'll share if desired )

Idris

hedonist said:

Wow. Messed up, but good for you, Idris.

Sad anyone has to get to the point of dash-camming, but understandable. Kudos for keeping a level head.

(and I'm dying to know what you sort of got pulled over for, but figure you'll share if desired )

I'll share when I get back from some errands.

unsung

Let's not forget Kelly Thomas.

http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/california-police-acquitted-of-kelly-thomas-death-gives-green-light-to-bad-cops/

Thirty Bills Unpaid

The Kelly Thomas incident is a crushing one.

Hearing him call for his dad as those fat pricks were beating him down was as disturbing as a scene might be.

The worst thing about it was when calmer heads arrived... they didn't stop things- they piled on. Emotionally removed from the incident... they did nothing to stop what was clearly an incident that had spiralled out of control.

Idris

hedonist said:

Wow. Messed up, but good for you, Idris.

Sad anyone has to get to the point of dash-camming, but understandable. Kudos for keeping a level head.

(and I'm dying to know what you sort of got pulled over for, but figure you'll share if desired )

So I just left my works parking lot (1pm, sunny Florida afternoon), got onto the road, the road bends, I came around the bend and maybe 750? feet ahead is a pedestrian crosswalk, I saw some peds about to step onto the crossing, I slowed my car and came to a very decent smooth stop.

Then a cop walks to about 15 feet from my car (my windows were down more than half way) and he starts (quite loudly/aggressively) telling me what the speed limit is (35MPH) which I already knew as I drive that road just about daily, and knew officers had been watching the crosswalk for a few weeks.

So he like a robot repeats to me over an over "its 35! its 35!" "slow down" (I was already driving under the limit, I think I had some PJ on the radio, it WAS a relaxing day until that point)

After about 40 seconds of him repeating this, I said in a calm and very cool manner. "Thank you officer, I am aware of the speed limit and was not over it"

Now he seems to get really annoyed, "what!" (he yells) and continues "slowwww down!", (at this point I'm thinking what world am I living in lmao)

The pedestrians are about 70% down the crosswalk (its a wide two streets),

Now after the 10,15th, maybe 20th time he tells me that I was speeding and should slow down, I told him, "officer, the next time you accuse someone of doing something, make sure your facts are in order, thank you"

That set him off, he ran up to my window "THAT'S IT!. License and registration!!!"

I asked what the reason was he was asking/demanding this from me, and he said "WHEN I TELL YOU SOMETHING, YOU LISTEN UP AND JUST DO IT!"

That's when I told him that I wanted to start recording, "at this point sir, I'd like to start recording this with my cell phone"..."touch it and I'll take you to jail" he yells,

"License! Now!" (he yells again)

I opened up my glove box, and started to get my DL out and I hear him chuckle, (I think he was very pleased with himself?)

So I show him my license (kept it in my hand) and he said "give it to me!", I said something about "illegal stops" and he said "give it to me or I'm taking you to jail, and he reaches for my door handle" (that was the point in which it could go anyway, I chose a more calm? approach)

I said "alright officer", and handed it to him". He tells me to exit my vehicle, which I do, and he goes checks my DL.

At this point the female officer and myself start talking and I expressed my dismay at what was going on, (I forgot to mention that before I got out of my car, I asked the officer 3 times for a supervisor and he replied "what do you think he (supervisor) is going to do for you?") (I'm like "supervise?")

So after he checks my DL, he comes back right up to me, "I can right you a ticket for speeding", "I know when people speed, I'm trained in the use of Radars",

"Thank you officer, what speed was I going?" (He was manning the crosswalk, I could see he did not have a radar with him)

He said "I can tell the by the way a car leans", at this point I gave him a quick lesson in physics, gravity, and some other things that came to mind at the time...It took him quite back, his voice got suddenly less aggressive and he probably wondered who he pulled over,

Now at this point he realizes that he can't write me a speeding ticket, he looks over at my car, and then said "ah! your tints!, I can tell they are illegal!" Then he runs like a horse to his car and comes back with a small black box.

He opens it, looks at me and says "I'm going to test your window tints with this machine?(he did not say machine, can't recall what word he used, 'device', maybe)", "Go ahead officer" (I said)

He hooks it on my window and, it registered something like 9% darker than what's legal, he says quite joyfully, "ha!, illegal, that's a 160 dollar ticket per window" (I literally did one of these 8-|

Then I (naturally) question his usage of said device, and he gives me a run down about his extensive knowledge of using it, and he opened the black box again and takes out two small tinted lenses with a certain % tint on them, he tells me that this is how he knows his readings are accurate, so I said "excellent officer, do you mind testing those lenses right now..?"

(Now the playing field changes completely)

At that point, he took a step back from me, looked at me kinda shocked, slowly put the lenses and device back in the box, turned around and walked back to his car to put the box back into his vehicle,

Then he walks back up to me and says (very gently, very very gently) "so I'm not going to write/issue you any tickets/citations" reaches out his hand to shake mine, I pause, look at him, and shake his hand.

I get back in my car, and drive off. (female office looking at me with a huge smile on her face just shaking her head)
-

I'm confident, the next time he 'pulls' someone over, or yells at someone, it will be for the 'right' reasons. ah, but who knows. Some friends of mine were angry at me that I did not report him, my reasoning for not doing so was that at the end, he recognized what the 'truth' was, and will be perhaps more careful,more human, in the future, reporting him, I felt would just harden his heart, I spoke to him at the human level, and think I reached his heart, I dunno, maybe I shoulda reported him. I dunno.
-

So yeah, I now drive with a dash cam, records automatically once I start my engine and stays on for 5mins after ignition is turned off,
Garmin Dash Cam 10



Quite a few different types of dashcams on the market, blackvue, MioVu, Cobra. I recommend every driver using one.



(Sorry Unsung for stepping into your thread, I don't mean to derail it)

badbrains

Idris said:

hedonist said:

Wow. Messed up, but good for you, Idris.

Sad anyone has to get to the point of dash-camming, but understandable. Kudos for keeping a level head.

(and I'm dying to know what you sort of got pulled over for, but figure you'll share if desired )

So I just left my works parking lot (1pm, sunny Florida afternoon), got onto the road, the road bends, I came around the bend and maybe 750? feet ahead is a pedestrian crosswalk, I saw some peds about to step onto the crossing, I slowed my car and came to a very decent smooth stop.

Then a cop walks to about 15 feet from my car (my windows were down more than half way) and he starts (quite loudly/aggressively) telling me what the speed limit is (35MPH) which I already knew as I drive that road just about daily, and knew officers had been watching the crosswalk for a few weeks.

So he like a robot repeats to me over an over "its 35! its 35!" "slow down" (I was already driving under the limit, I think I had some PJ on the radio, it WAS a relaxing day until that point)

After about 40 seconds of him repeating this, I said in a calm and very cool manner. "Thank you officer, I am aware of the speed limit and was not over it"

Now he seems to get really annoyed, "what!" (he yells) and continues "slowwww down!", (at this point I'm thinking what world am I living in lmao)

The pedestrians are about 70% down the crosswalk (its a wide two streets),

Now after the 10,15th, maybe 20th time he tells me that I was speeding and should slow down, I told him, "officer, the next time you accuse someone of doing something, make sure your facts are in order, thank you"

That set him off, he ran up to my window "THAT'S IT!. License and registration!!!"

I asked what the reason was he was asking/demanding this from me, and he said "WHEN I TELL YOU SOMETHING, YOU LISTEN UP AND JUST DO IT!"

That's when I told him that I wanted to start recording, "at this point sir, I'd like to start recording this with my cell phone"..."touch it and I'll take you to jail" he yells,

"License! Now!" (he yells again)

I opened up my glove box, and started to get my DL out and I hear him chuckle, (I think he was very pleased with himself?)

So I show him my license (kept it in my hand) and he said "give it to me!", I said something about "illegal stops" and he said "give it to me or I'm taking you to jail, and he reaches for my door handle" (that was the point in which it could go anyway, I chose a more calm? approach)

I said "alright officer", and handed it to him". He tells me to exit my vehicle, which I do, and he goes checks my DL.

At this point the female officer and myself start talking and I expressed my dismay at what was going on, (I forgot to mention that before I got out of my car, I asked the officer 3 times for a supervisor and he replied "what do you think he (supervisor) is going to do for you?") (I'm like "supervise?")

So after he checks my DL, he comes back right up to me, "I can right you a ticket for speeding", "I know when people speed, I'm trained in the use of Radars",

"Thank you officer, what speed was I going?" (He was manning the crosswalk, I could see he did not have a radar with him)

He said "I can tell the by the way a car leans", at this point I gave him a quick lesson in physics, gravity, and some other things that came to mind at the time...It took him quite back, his voice got suddenly less aggressive and he probably wondered who he pulled over,

Now at this point he realizes that he can't write me a speeding ticket, he looks over at my car, and then said "ah! your tints!, I can tell they are illegal!" Then he runs like a horse to his car and comes back with a small black box.

He opens it, looks at me and says "I'm going to test your window tints with this machine?(he did not say machine, can't recall what word he used, 'device', maybe)", "Go ahead officer" (I said)

He hooks it on my window and, it registered something like 9% darker than what's legal, he says quite joyfully, "ha!, illegal, that's a 160 dollar ticket per window" (I literally did one of these 8-|

Then I (naturally) question his usage of said device, and he gives me a run down about his extensive knowledge of using it, and he opened the black box again and takes out two small tinted lenses with a certain % tint on them, he tells me that this is how he knows his readings are accurate, so I said "excellent officer, do you mind testing those lenses right now..?"

(Now the playing field changes completely)

At that point, he took a step back from me, looked at me kinda shocked, slowly put the lenses and device back in the box, turned around and walked back to his car to put the box back into his vehicle,

Then he walks back up to me and says (very gently, very very gently) "so I'm not going to write/issue you any tickets/citations" reaches out his hand to shake mine, I pause, look at him, and shake his hand.

I get back in my car, and drive off. (female office looking at me with a huge smile on her face just shaking her head)
-

I'm confident, the next time he 'pulls' someone over, or yells at someone, it will be for the 'right' reasons. ah, but who knows. Some friends of mine were angry at me that I did not report him, my reasoning for not doing so was that at the end, he recognized what the 'truth' was, and will be perhaps more careful,more human, in the future, reporting him, I felt would just harden his heart, I spoke to him at the human level, and think I reached his heart, I dunno, maybe I shoulda reported him. I dunno.
-

So yeah, I now drive with a dash cam, records automatically once I start my engine and stays on for 5mins after ignition is turned off,
Garmin Dash Cam 10



Quite a few different types of dashcams on the market, blackvue, MioVu, Cobra. I recommend every driver using one.



(Sorry Unsung for stepping into your thread, I don't mean to derail it)

U didn't derail shit, that was a crazy story. Good for you. I hate fucken cops who think they're untouchable.

I was at a gas station one day and and this guy started honking his horn at the attendant (jersey, lazy asses don't pump their own gas). Attendant walked over and said sir your cars not done yet where the customer pulled out his badge and said," I don't have time for you to walk around, wait by the pump for it to finish." There was like 7 cars getting gas and this fucktard with a badge came out talking shit. Cop didn't know I owned the station and KNEW every cop in town. I walked over to him and said what's the problem? He said go away little boy, doesn't involve you. That's where I stated to laugh and grabbed my cell. Called my buddy who was a cop and he pulled right in, small town. The look on that assholes face when he saw my buddy get out of the car and fist bump me was priceless. All I did was point at the car and my buddy went over there and read him the riot act about pulling your badge for dumb shit, talking down to people, this isn't your town blah blah blah. Guy apologized to my attendant and left, never to be seen again. Cops, u either love em or hate em.

Idris

that's a nice little story.

unsung

josevolution said:

unsung said:

unsung said:

I like John Stossel


http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/23/conservatives-libertarians-and-liberals-should-all-worry-about-militarization/

Bringing this back up, ignore that it is fox, stossel is a libertarian.

I agree with Stossel but i have to ask where is your other Libertarians that you allways speak of where is Rand speaking out against this he sure as hell jumped on the farmers side out west when the big bad gov wanted those cows to be moved just asking ....

Another...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/libertarians-make-their-voices-heard-on-police-in-ferguson-mo/2014/08/14/e780217c-23e6-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

unsung

Idris said:

that's a nice little story.

I work with a guy who was sitting at a stoplight and the car in front of him threw it into reverse and slammed into him. The cops show up and the car in front starts screaming how they were hurt and how he rear ended them. A car behind him agreed with Car#1 and said that my co-worker rear ended them. It was all a scam that they were in on. He bought a dash cam that next day.

badbrains

Look who's been training the police forces in Missouri

https://twitter.com/raniakhalek/status/500217516611108864

unsung

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-WB-48258

unsung

From the BBC,

And yes I hope so. I hope it opened a few eyes.

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28779376

hedonist

Idris said:

that's a nice little story.

Yes - and yours too. Good for you, keeping a cool head.

badbrains

hedonist said:

Idris said:

that's a nice little story.

Yes - and yours too. Good for you, keeping a cool head.

Hedonist- u can take the boy out of Cali BUT you can NEVER take the Cali out of the boy.

Bang! How u like them apples!

unsung

Last one so this remains on topic, it does deal with the issue of militilarization of the local police.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/rand-pauls-race-moment-110040.html

unsung

Great article with photos of the milit...police on the streets.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/08/robert-farago/breaking-militarized-missouri-police-go-rogue-in-riots/

unsung

Seems like it was just another day in Ferguson.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

unsung

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-after-police-killed-my-son-110038.html#.U_CiLEu9LCQ

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-after-police-killed-my-son-110038.html#.U_CiLEu9LCQ

Without question, outside agencies must be responsible for investigating cases such as the one in the story. The classic plant a weapon and contrive a story we are subjected to in movies is probably based on reality, but not near as prevalent in real life as I think some make it out to be. Regardless... it makes perfect sense that society demands someone other than the police investigate the police.