Ugh, this picture just kills me (those are beanbag and tear gas guns I believe for anyone thinking they are semi-auto rifles). Those are protestors; not rioters, not looters. They were violating the city imposed curfew yesterday that started at 8pm. The police are put in a shitty position and the protestors want their message to be heard. I get needing to curtail the violence and looting, but I wish there was an opportunity for those being peaceful to still be heard 24/7.
I appreciate your post. Too many are just cop bashing right now. But they are out between a rock and a hard place. Some are over reacting, most are just trying to get through their shift.
Peaceful protests are getting teargassed and maced as we speak right now. Take a look what is going on in Philly this second. That is not between a rock and a hard place imo. That is stoking violence and more unrest. At night past curfew is a different ballgame but I have seen way too many videos the last couple of days of peaceful protesters and media being beaten, shot at (non lethal), and maced with other cops just watching. I assume the cops that stand there watching are the good cops you are talking about trying to get through their shift. Until we get to a day where the good cops police the bad cops we are going to be on an endless loop with this shit.
I respect police and know they have a tough job with split second decisions and their life is on the line every time they start their shift. They did however sign up for that job and I would hope through training and leadership that some kind of change could happen with how they conduct their business.
Haven’t really watched tv yet today. But the last 3 or 4 days every situation like you described had rocks and water bottles being thrown at the cops. Or a few cases where they were trying to move a crowd or clear a road. I’m sure there was unnecessary use of gas with all the chaos, but it looks like most of it was justified.
I did see a cop shoot a paint gun at people for standing on their porch, that was stupid.
To be fair to the cops the majority of them are standing around and allowing peaceful protests. That is not newsworthy or interesting however so the times that this does not happen we would see the videos and think that maybe the norm of what is happening right now.
To go back to the good cops and bad cops comment I made. I would really hope and want to believe that there are only a few bad apples in the police force and the overwhelming majority are good cops trying to make an honest living and doing honest days work. If this is the case however why are the good cops not pushing the bad cops out more often instead of turning a blind eye or not speaking up when they would have a chance to do so? I am not saying this does not happen at all I am wondering why this does not happen with more consistency. If a peaceful protester is standing there not doing anything wrong and a cop comes up and shoves that protester from behind knocking them over, kicks and maces them in the middle of the day how are the other cops just watching this happen and continue on with their march? I just do not get it. I know everyone is on edge but come on. I have seen a couple of times where cops did step up but the vast majority they have not.
To Brian's comments about cops that are in support of the protesters having an easier time dealing with them. I thought about that yesterday as well and think it is very true. A lot of that was in the daytime however and once the curfew hits and the dark takes over all bets are off it seems.
Police using force to push back peaceful protests so Trump can have photo op at a church has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have seen so far in the last 5 days. My hate for Trump maybe clouding my judgement on that and the way CNN is reporting this but fuck that.
Ugh, this picture just kills me (those are beanbag and tear gas guns I believe for anyone thinking they are semi-auto rifles). Those are protestors; not rioters, not looters. They were violating the city imposed curfew yesterday that started at 8pm. The police are put in a shitty position and the protestors want their message to be heard. I get needing to curtail the violence and looting, but I wish there was an opportunity for those being peaceful to still be heard 24/7.
I appreciate your post. Too many are just cop bashing right now. But they are out between a rock and a hard place. Some are over reacting, most are just trying to get through their shift.
Peaceful protests are getting teargassed and maced as we speak right now. Take a look what is going on in Philly this second. That is not between a rock and a hard place imo. That is stoking violence and more unrest. At night past curfew is a different ballgame but I have seen way too many videos the last couple of days of peaceful protesters and media being beaten, shot at (non lethal), and maced with other cops just watching. I assume the cops that stand there watching are the good cops you are talking about trying to get through their shift. Until we get to a day where the good cops police the bad cops we are going to be on an endless loop with this shit.
I respect police and know they have a tough job with split second decisions and their life is on the line every time they start their shift. They did however sign up for that job and I would hope through training and leadership that some kind of change could happen with how they conduct their business.
Haven’t really watched tv yet today. But the last 3 or 4 days every situation like you described had rocks and water bottles being thrown at the cops. Or a few cases where they were trying to move a crowd or clear a road. I’m sure there was unnecessary use of gas with all the chaos, but it looks like most of it was justified.
I did see a cop shoot a paint gun at people for standing on their porch, that was stupid.
To be fair to the cops the majority of them are standing around and allowing peaceful protests. That is not newsworthy or interesting however so the times that this does not happen we would see the videos and think that maybe the norm of what is happening right now.
To go back to the good cops and bad cops comment I made. I would really hope and want to believe that there are only a few bad apples in the police force and the overwhelming majority are good cops trying to make an honest living and doing honest days work. If this is the case however why are the good cops not pushing the bad cops out more often instead of turning a blind eye or not speaking up when they would have a chance to do so? I am not saying this does not happen at all I am wondering why this does not happen with more consistency. If a peaceful protester is standing there not doing anything wrong and a cop comes up and shoves that protester from behind knocking them over, kicks and maces them in the middle of the day how are the other cops just watching this happen and continue on with their march? I just do not get it. I know everyone is on edge but come on. I have seen a couple of times where cops did step up but the vast majority they have not.
To Brian's comments about cops that are in support of the protesters having an easier time dealing with them. I thought about that yesterday as well and think it is very true. A lot of that was in the daytime however and once the curfew hits and the dark takes over all bets are off it seems.
1000 good cops doing nothing about 10 bad cops equals 1010 bad cops
What the FUCK!?! I stand by good cops but these are fucking pigs.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
The orange Baffoon is flexing his muscles after getting a lesson in authority from Putin today during his phone call, think about that he spoke to Putin before even talking to the governor’s of this country lol or address the nation on what has been some of the darkest times! We are doomed.
It is ridiculous. We need to separate the protests and the looting/violence. Support the protests while at the same time hold those causing trouble accountable now. Easier said then done because too many innocent protesters and police put in harms way.
At some point though you can’t just allow people to destroy a neighborhood.
A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
Post edited by Mike D88 on
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II Audioslave 2005 MSG
It is ridiculous. We need to separate the protests and the looting/violence. Support the protests while at the same time hold those causing trouble accountable now. Easier said then done because too many innocent protesters and police put in harms way.
At some point though you can’t just allow people to destroy a neighborhood.
It’s anarchy. God damn opportunists taking advantage. I can live with someone stealing a PlayStation from a Target, but not an assault like the one in the video. And shit like that is happening all over.
Ugh, this picture just kills me (those are beanbag and tear gas guns I believe for anyone thinking they are semi-auto rifles). Those are protestors; not rioters, not looters. They were violating the city imposed curfew yesterday that started at 8pm. The police are put in a shitty position and the protestors want their message to be heard. I get needing to curtail the violence and looting, but I wish there was an opportunity for those being peaceful to still be heard 24/7.
Backtracking through the thread a bit.
Absolute miss on the weapon IDs. The officer second from the right is carrying an AR pattern rifle with a 30-round box magazine. And the muzzle is not clear of that woman on the ground.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II Audioslave 2005 MSG
Ugh, this picture just kills me (those are beanbag and tear gas guns I believe for anyone thinking they are semi-auto rifles). Those are protestors; not rioters, not looters. They were violating the city imposed curfew yesterday that started at 8pm. The police are put in a shitty position and the protestors want their message to be heard. I get needing to curtail the violence and looting, but I wish there was an opportunity for those being peaceful to still be heard 24/7.
Backtracking through the thread a bit.
Absolute miss on the weapon IDs. The officer second from the right is carrying an AR pattern rifle with a 30-round box magazine. And the muzzle is not clear of that woman on the ground.
My bad. The magazine should have gave it away. That's why I said I believe.
And maybe it wasn't clear, but I'm sympathetic to the protestors here. I just think it's messed up that cops are being deployed this way against peaceful protestors. I couldn't do it. They follow orders and there really isn't room for discussion about it. That sucks.
"Police" is not a protected class worthy of exclusion from prejudice. It's an occupation, one that selects for aggressors and bullies, and then either doesn't train them enough, or trains them to be openly adversarial. There is a long-simmering issue of cops being "unaccountable men with guns" that could be its own enormous discussion. These protests offer an opportunity with even less accountability than normal, owing to a combination of anonymity, less-lethal weapons, lax rules of engagement, and general chaos.
To wit: There has been an alarming trend of police forces deliberately targeting journalists in way I would expect to see in some failed, war-torn state. They feel empowered to do this despite the potential for wide publicity.
This is what is happening to journalists with cameras and live feeds. That's how assured police are that any assault they choose to commit will go unpunished. Now imagine how much goes on without any record.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II Audioslave 2005 MSG
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,082
A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
I heard a good term for this and other activities aimed at sabotaging legitimate protests: "Protest Hackers". This is the term our county sheriff thus: " What I call “Protest Hackers”, those that infiltrate peaceful protests with nefarious and violent intentions..."
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,082
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Honestly, seemed like the FBI guy wanted itntongondpwn that way. Sounded like the cops were acting off a complaint and didn’t lose their cool or anything and at any time he could have showed his ID, instead he refuses and when they reach for it he says “wait until they see this.”
Honestly, seemed like the FBI guy wanted itntongondpwn that way. Sounded like the cops were acting off a complaint and didn’t lose their cool or anything and at any time he could have showed his ID, instead he refuses and when they reach for it he says “wait until they see this.”
Yeah, he wanted it to go down that way. He wanted it to go down that way because those cops are full of shit and they don't give a fuck about his rights. Once again, police have free reign to be antagonistic, but we citizens are supposed to just play along like good little subjects. What you choose to comment on when you see this is telling...
A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
So one tweet from one newly created Twitter account and they don't tell us how many followers it had. This is chum for people who want to peddle in conspiracy theories rather than accept what's happening in the streets. There is no puppet master. You have a bunch of groups with disparate politics who thrive on chaos and are co-opting a movement.
There is a real opportunity to make some change to how police operate and I worry that we just can't keep our eyes on the ball.
Honestly, seemed like the FBI guy wanted itntongondpwn that way. Sounded like the cops were acting off a complaint and didn’t lose their cool or anything and at any time he could have showed his ID, instead he refuses and when they reach for it he says “wait until they see this.”
Yeah, he wanted it to go down that way. He wanted it to go down that way because those cops are full of shit and they don't give a fuck about his rights. Once again, police have free reign to be antagonistic, but we citizens are supposed to just play along like good little subjects. What you choose to comment on when you see this is telling...
So you agree with me then criticize me for the same comment? Ok. How you know the cops are full of shit? Maybe they are, maybe not, I don’t know what this video. Not really much to go on in that video unless you just assume all cops are full of shit.
Police officers being shot and ran over. Not a lot of talk about that. It's pretty sad how far people will go to justify certain behavior. This is not ok.
It's too bad the national leadership is as bad as it is. I would think a true president would be talking to the Governer/DA/Police chief/mayor in Minneapolis and discussing the issue of the 3 other officers. Has there been any clear indication of why no charges? Someone must answer.
That said, here are the things that really upset me about this today: 1) Black men are stopped inappropriately at a racist level, the police escalate issues with black men and women and children rather than seek to minimize, Police continue to use deadly force against people of color and it seems because they see them as less than human. 2) The POTUS is looking more and more like a wannabe dictator. 3) The American people allowing an obviously morally corrupt man to hold up a bible in front of a church and then pretend like he is a man of God. You have perverted your religion. 4) The POTUS referring to 2nd amendment rights in every freakin speech even when it has no bearing...inciting his gun toting deplorables to violence. 5) Innocent people being beaten by protesters/rioters and shot with rubber bullets by police. 6) Business owners suffering loss at the ends of lawless, deplorables...just not the kind you are used to call deplorable. But they fit right in with them. Some of these small businesses will not recover. They will suffer, their families will suffer and their communities will suffer. 7) I have come to believe that the media is egging Trump on. And it's a dangerous game. We saw first hand what the effects of that are yesterday. When they kept reporting that he went to the bunker Friday, that wasn;t normal reporting. They know he hates to look weak and they wanted to make him look weak for their own gain. Reporting it is one thing, how it was done was completely inappropriate and innocent protesters had to suffer the consequences. Writing checks that others pay. They continue to do so with little jabs here and there. That is not their role, be professional, be better. We need a strong news community that we can trust, we don't need entertainment TV. 8) I haven't heard a lot from community leaders/black leaders with a united message and condemnation of violence on TV. I've searched it out some. It's probably there, but I feel the news orgs are not doing a good job of reporting on this. 9) Riot police at times have been extremely aggressive in what should be passive situations. We need calm and understanding from that group, if they can't give that now, they are showing those that should not be on the police force. Again, escalating and not trying to minimize.
After many days, it's just chaos. There is no leadership. No real discussion of the officers and any charges (no one even justifying their actions). Police escalating in the streets. Protesters claim to not be rioters (and I believe this to be true for the most part) but it's been more about justifying the action and separating themselves from it then it has been about stopping it.
I don't have the answers, just a lot of questions and angst right now. I honestly feel like this is what should happen however:
1) Governor/Mayor in Minneapolis invite and open a discussion with black leadership. 2) Like any other peace talks, Black leadership calling for a suspension of protests for 2-3 days while discussions occur. Remove the peaceful protesters from the street. State anyone out is not with the cause.
I know it risks losing momentum for the cause, but I feel it best for all there is dialogue and a pause. Hopefully those discussions yield: 1) Answers regarding the specific situation 2) Alignment on a plan moving forward to address the issues of the black community 3) Alignment from MN Gov. to work to create a national dialogue with all Govs and the African American leadership with the thought of reapplying the learnings and path forward from the MN meetings.
Might not be effective fully, but it has to be better than what we have.
"Reporter Matt McKnight on Saturday published a video, which shows a Seattle officer kneeling on a protester's neck in what appears to be a similar fashion as Chauvin.
"Get your f*cking knee off his neck," a bystander can be heard shouting as the cop pins his knee on the man's neck for about 13 seconds.
Another officer can be seen grabbing his colleague's knee and prying it off the man's neck after tapping him to stop. "
"Another video uploaded by McKnight appears to show the same officer kneeling on another suspect's neck moments earlier."
Comments
To go back to the good cops and bad cops comment I made. I would really hope and want to believe that there are only a few bad apples in the police force and the overwhelming majority are good cops trying to make an honest living and doing honest days work. If this is the case however why are the good cops not pushing the bad cops out more often instead of turning a blind eye or not speaking up when they would have a chance to do so? I am not saying this does not happen at all I am wondering why this does not happen with more consistency. If a peaceful protester is standing there not doing anything wrong and a cop comes up and shoves that protester from behind knocking them over, kicks and maces them in the middle of the day how are the other cops just watching this happen and continue on with their march? I just do not get it. I know everyone is on edge but come on. I have seen a couple of times where cops did step up but the vast majority they have not.
To Brian's comments about cops that are in support of the protesters having an easier time dealing with them. I thought about that yesterday as well and think it is very true. A lot of that was in the daytime however and once the curfew hits and the dark takes over all bets are off it seems.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
wtf is going on in DC.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA6DCHWFPOQ/?utm_source=ig_embed
Philly protesters trapped with teargas launched at them. The Instagram link is a different angle
What the FUCK!?! I stand by good cops but these are fucking pigs.
https://youtu.be/5tEUmmYDUfA
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
And maybe it wasn't clear, but I'm sympathetic to the protestors here. I just think it's messed up that cops are being deployed this way against peaceful protestors. I couldn't do it. They follow orders and there really isn't room for discussion about it. That sucks.
Really bringing out the worst in a lot of people.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
LOL, "stupidest mother fuckers I've ever seen..."
There is a real opportunity to make some change to how police operate and I worry that we just can't keep our eyes on the ball.
How you know the cops are full of shit? Maybe they are, maybe not, I don’t know what this video. Not really much to go on in that video unless you just assume all cops are full of shit.
It's too bad the national leadership is as bad as it is. I would think a true president would be talking to the Governer/DA/Police chief/mayor in Minneapolis and discussing the issue of the 3 other officers. Has there been any clear indication of why no charges? Someone must answer.
That said, here are the things that really upset me about this today:
1) Black men are stopped inappropriately at a racist level, the police escalate issues with black men and women and children rather than seek to minimize, Police continue to use deadly force against people of color and it seems because they see them as less than human.
2) The POTUS is looking more and more like a wannabe dictator.
3) The American people allowing an obviously morally corrupt man to hold up a bible in front of a church and then pretend like he is a man of God. You have perverted your religion.
4) The POTUS referring to 2nd amendment rights in every freakin speech even when it has no bearing...inciting his gun toting deplorables to violence.
5) Innocent people being beaten by protesters/rioters and shot with rubber bullets by police.
6) Business owners suffering loss at the ends of lawless, deplorables...just not the kind you are used to call deplorable. But they fit right in with them. Some of these small businesses will not recover. They will suffer, their families will suffer and their communities will suffer.
7) I have come to believe that the media is egging Trump on. And it's a dangerous game. We saw first hand what the effects of that are yesterday. When they kept reporting that he went to the bunker Friday, that wasn;t normal reporting. They know he hates to look weak and they wanted to make him look weak for their own gain. Reporting it is one thing, how it was done was completely inappropriate and innocent protesters had to suffer the consequences. Writing checks that others pay. They continue to do so with little jabs here and there. That is not their role, be professional, be better. We need a strong news community that we can trust, we don't need entertainment TV.
8) I haven't heard a lot from community leaders/black leaders with a united message and condemnation of violence on TV. I've searched it out some. It's probably there, but I feel the news orgs are not doing a good job of reporting on this.
9) Riot police at times have been extremely aggressive in what should be passive situations. We need calm and understanding from that group, if they can't give that now, they are showing those that should not be on the police force. Again, escalating and not trying to minimize.
After many days, it's just chaos. There is no leadership. No real discussion of the officers and any charges (no one even justifying their actions). Police escalating in the streets. Protesters claim to not be rioters (and I believe this to be true for the most part) but it's been more about justifying the action and separating themselves from it then it has been about stopping it.
I don't have the answers, just a lot of questions and angst right now. I honestly feel like this is what should happen however:
1) Governor/Mayor in Minneapolis invite and open a discussion with black leadership.
2) Like any other peace talks, Black leadership calling for a suspension of protests for 2-3 days while discussions occur. Remove the peaceful protesters from the street. State anyone out is not with the cause.
I know it risks losing momentum for the cause, but I feel it best for all there is dialogue and a pause. Hopefully those discussions yield:
1) Answers regarding the specific situation
2) Alignment on a plan moving forward to address the issues of the black community
3) Alignment from MN Gov. to work to create a national dialogue with all Govs and the African American leadership with the thought of reapplying the learnings and path forward from the MN meetings.
Might not be effective fully, but it has to be better than what we have.
"Reporter Matt McKnight on Saturday published a video, which shows a Seattle officer kneeling on a protester's neck in what appears to be a similar fashion as Chauvin.
"Get your f*cking knee off his neck," a bystander can be heard shouting as the cop pins his knee on the man's neck for about 13 seconds.
Another officer can be seen grabbing his colleague's knee and prying it off the man's neck after tapping him to stop. "
"Another video uploaded by McKnight appears to show the same officer kneeling on another suspect's neck moments earlier."