Police abuse

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

See, that's just cute.
The fourth type.  
The fourth type must be deaf and blind lol

unsung

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

I have a busy life outside of these forums.  This place is not my priority.

So an honest cop?

You act as if that is something that deserves special recognition.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

I have a busy life outside of these forums.  This place is not my priority.

So an honest cop?

You act as if that is something that deserves special recognition.

You post a goofy meme declaring there are three types of cops.

I wasn't promoting good cops. I just pointed out that your assertion was stupid- childish in nature- because it was so limited with its bias.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

See, that's just cute.
The fourth type.  
The fourth type must be deaf and blind lol

Or maybe just raised in a pot smoking home lol

Halifax2TheMax

unsung said:

As one of my stalkers you should review this very thread.  I am shocked you missed the numerous posts on such a topic.   Stop slacking.  And don't be an idiot.

Is this why you conceal carry? Internet stalkers? Someone challenges your way of thinking and they're a stalker? Still fearing elimination of the white race as well, I presume? Get over yourself.

unsung

Halifax2TheMax said:

unsung said:

As one of my stalkers you should review this very thread.  I am shocked you missed the numerous posts on such a topic.   Stop slacking.  And don't be an idiot.

Is this why you conceal carry? Internet stalkers? Someone challenges your way of thinking and they're a stalker? Still fearing elimination of the white race as well, I presume? Get over yourself.

Go read some past posts where I defended Eeic Garner before you decide to accuse someone of something.

So defending myself is the need to get over myself.  Funny.

Halifax2TheMax

unsung said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

unsung said:

As one of my stalkers you should review this very thread.  I am shocked you missed the numerous posts on such a topic.   Stop slacking.  And don't be an idiot.

Is this why you conceal carry? Internet stalkers? Someone challenges your way of thinking and they're a stalker? Still fearing elimination of the white race as well, I presume? Get over yourself.

Go read some past posts where I defended Eeic Garner before you decide to accuse someone of something.

So defending myself is the need to get over myself.  Funny.

As funny as you claiming to be stalked. 

tbergs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

See, that's just cute.
The fourth type.  
The fourth type must be deaf and blind lol

Or maybe just raised in a pot smoking home lol

Actually, if anyone thinks this is true or that there are only even 4 types, they are being ridiculous. We all know there are bad ones, but you better believe the goods ones are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of the shitty ones. This isn't the 60's and 70's. Of all the cops in the country, you've probably got less than 5% who fall in to the "3" types of cop.

I'm going to take a wild guess that no one here is a cop, which therefore makes it hard to understand dealing with drug dealers/users (and I'm talking about the meth, heroine and coke stuff), drunk assholes, domestic violence, sexual assault, thieves and all around shitty human beings on a daily basis so these individuals don't inconvenience or hassle you and yours as you go about your life.

rgambs

tbergs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

See, that's just cute.
The fourth type.  
The fourth type must be deaf and blind lol

Or maybe just raised in a pot smoking home lol

Actually, if anyone thinks this is true or that there are only even 4 types, they are being ridiculous. We all know there are bad ones, but you better believe the goods ones are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of the shitty ones. This isn't the 60's and 70's. Of all the cops in the country, you've probably got less than 5% who fall in to the "3" types of cop.

I'm going to take a wild guess that no one here is a cop, which therefore makes it hard to understand dealing with drug dealers/users (and I'm talking about the meth, heroine and coke stuff), drunk assholes, domestic violence, sexual assault, thieves and all around shitty human beings on a daily basis so these individuals don't inconvenience or hassle you and yours as you go about your life.

So more than 95% of cops are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of bad cops and practically every independent investigation of police departments in America still turns up corruption and illegal activities being covered up?
Damn.


The second paragraph has nothing to do with it, the struggles of the job have nothing to do with doing it honestly and with integrity.

tbergs

rgambs said:

tbergs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

See, that's just cute.
The fourth type.  
The fourth type must be deaf and blind lol

Or maybe just raised in a pot smoking home lol

Actually, if anyone thinks this is true or that there are only even 4 types, they are being ridiculous. We all know there are bad ones, but you better believe the goods ones are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of the shitty ones. This isn't the 60's and 70's. Of all the cops in the country, you've probably got less than 5% who fall in to the "3" types of cop.

I'm going to take a wild guess that no one here is a cop, which therefore makes it hard to understand dealing with drug dealers/users (and I'm talking about the meth, heroine and coke stuff), drunk assholes, domestic violence, sexual assault, thieves and all around shitty human beings on a daily basis so these individuals don't inconvenience or hassle you and yours as you go about your life.

So more than 95% of cops are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of bad cops and practically every independent investigation of police departments in America still turns up corruption and illegal activities being covered up?
Damn.


The second paragraph has nothing to do with it, the struggles of the job have nothing to do with doing it honestly and with integrity.

No, not how I meant it. I merely meant the 3 types is less than 5% (that's still a lot across the country mind you, around 40,000!) Not everyone of the remaining 95% are pulling 200%, but they also aren't the dead weight asshole cop who is pulling the profession down. Mostly probably keeping an even keel, much like any profession.

My point with the 2nd statement is in response to anyone claiming there are only 3 types or that to be a good cop they are deaf and blind. That's fucking bullshit and is demeaning to those dealing with that shit everyday and sticking with it. If someone beats up and robs you, you're going to want that so called deaf and blind cop as much as you discredit them when you feel safe and secure in your home right now.

rgambs

tbergs said:

rgambs said:

tbergs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

See, that's just cute.
The fourth type.  
The fourth type must be deaf and blind lol

Or maybe just raised in a pot smoking home lol

Actually, if anyone thinks this is true or that there are only even 4 types, they are being ridiculous. We all know there are bad ones, but you better believe the goods ones are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of the shitty ones. This isn't the 60's and 70's. Of all the cops in the country, you've probably got less than 5% who fall in to the "3" types of cop.

I'm going to take a wild guess that no one here is a cop, which therefore makes it hard to understand dealing with drug dealers/users (and I'm talking about the meth, heroine and coke stuff), drunk assholes, domestic violence, sexual assault, thieves and all around shitty human beings on a daily basis so these individuals don't inconvenience or hassle you and yours as you go about your life.

So more than 95% of cops are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of bad cops and practically every independent investigation of police departments in America still turns up corruption and illegal activities being covered up?
Damn.


The second paragraph has nothing to do with it, the struggles of the job have nothing to do with doing it honestly and with integrity.

No, not how I meant it. I merely meant the 3 types is less than 5% (that's still a lot across the country mind you, around 40,000!) Not everyone of the remaining 95% are pulling 200%, but they also aren't the dead weight asshole cop who is pulling the profession down. Mostly probably keeping an even keel, much like any profession.

My point with the 2nd statement is in response to anyone claiming there are only 3 types or that to be a good cop they are deaf and blind. That's fucking bullshit and is demeaning to those dealing with that shit everyday and sticking with it. If someone beats up and robs you, you're going to want that so called deaf and blind cop as much as you discredit them when you feel safe and secure in your home right now.

How is it possible that only 5% of police officers have seen abuses and failed to report and follow up on them?  That's just ridiculous, it makes me think you have never met a cop or seen any studies or investigations that report and uncover police abuse.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

RG...

For as balanced as you are on most issues that present themselves on the MT... you are extreme here.

My father-in-law was a cop and I have several friends that are cops. They are all excellent people. Now granted, in Canada, we don't have the same issues as the US which might lead to different attitudes developing within police people; however, to so easily dismiss a profession as corrupt and morally bankrupt is highly inappropriate.

You know... the MT community is funny. For example, it moves en masse to quickly defend Islam's integrity when Islamic radicals blow people up, yet by many of the same people... police are not afforded the same level of understanding.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

RG...

For as balanced as you are on most issues that present themselves on the MT... you are extreme here.

My father-in-law was a cop and I have several friends that are cops. They are all excellent people. Now granted, in Canada, we don't have the same issues as the US which might lead to different attitudes developing within police people; however, to so easily dismiss a profession as corrupt and morally bankrupt is highly inappropriate.

You know... the MT community is funny. For example, it moves en masse to quickly defend Islam's integrity when Islamic radicals blow people up, yet by many of the same people... police are not afforded the same level of understanding.

Listen, I know cops too.  I'm not saying they are terrible people.  I'm not saying their lives are entirely without integrity or morals. 
What I am saying is that nearly every single cop with more than a handful of years in service has witnessed abuse and done nothing about it for a host of reasons, from the perfectly understandable up to the abhorrent.
That is troubling to varying degrees, but it is just ridiculous that people want to paint this "few bad apples" portrait that conveniently takes away all pressure to maintain the strictest integrity in a profession which very much needs the strictest integrity.

tbergs

rgambs said:

tbergs said:

rgambs said:

tbergs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

See, that's just cute.
The fourth type.  
The fourth type must be deaf and blind lol

Or maybe just raised in a pot smoking home lol

Actually, if anyone thinks this is true or that there are only even 4 types, they are being ridiculous. We all know there are bad ones, but you better believe the goods ones are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of the shitty ones. This isn't the 60's and 70's. Of all the cops in the country, you've probably got less than 5% who fall in to the "3" types of cop.

I'm going to take a wild guess that no one here is a cop, which therefore makes it hard to understand dealing with drug dealers/users (and I'm talking about the meth, heroine and coke stuff), drunk assholes, domestic violence, sexual assault, thieves and all around shitty human beings on a daily basis so these individuals don't inconvenience or hassle you and yours as you go about your life.

So more than 95% of cops are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of bad cops and practically every independent investigation of police departments in America still turns up corruption and illegal activities being covered up?
Damn.


The second paragraph has nothing to do with it, the struggles of the job have nothing to do with doing it honestly and with integrity.

No, not how I meant it. I merely meant the 3 types is less than 5% (that's still a lot across the country mind you, around 40,000!) Not everyone of the remaining 95% are pulling 200%, but they also aren't the dead weight asshole cop who is pulling the profession down. Mostly probably keeping an even keel, much like any profession.

My point with the 2nd statement is in response to anyone claiming there are only 3 types or that to be a good cop they are deaf and blind. That's fucking bullshit and is demeaning to those dealing with that shit everyday and sticking with it. If someone beats up and robs you, you're going to want that so called deaf and blind cop as much as you discredit them when you feel safe and secure in your home right now.

How is it possible that only 5% of police officers have seen abuses and failed to report and follow up on them?  That's just ridiculous, it makes me think you have never met a cop or seen any studies or investigations that report and uncover police abuse.

Why does 5% seem ridiculous? That's a national average that I'm speculating. That means 20% of a certain department could be part of the overall 5% therefore you have an overly problematic department, but then another department has 0%. The department with 0% is never going to make the headlines and generally is ignored while the 20% will be broadcast like the problem is rampant across the profession. When you hear about these issues, it's usually a department that has fallen under bad leadership and the quality of the staff have eroded based on the climate of the workplace and co-workers; shit begets shit.

I'll ask you this, when you think of cops, do you have a negative or positive perspective? If so either way, why? Is it based on personal experience and direct word of mouth from others or media coverage? Just trying to understand where you are coming from on this.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

RG...

For as balanced as you are on most issues that present themselves on the MT... you are extreme here.

My father-in-law was a cop and I have several friends that are cops. They are all excellent people. Now granted, in Canada, we don't have the same issues as the US which might lead to different attitudes developing within police people; however, to so easily dismiss a profession as corrupt and morally bankrupt is highly inappropriate.

You know... the MT community is funny. For example, it moves en masse to quickly defend Islam's integrity when Islamic radicals blow people up, yet by many of the same people... police are not afforded the same level of understanding.

Listen, I know cops too.  I'm not saying they are terrible people.  I'm not saying their lives are entirely without integrity or morals. 
What I am saying is that nearly every single cop with more than a handful of years in service has witnessed abuse and done nothing about it for a host of reasons, from the perfectly understandable up to the abhorrent.
That is troubling to varying degrees, but it is just ridiculous that people want to paint this "few bad apples" portrait that conveniently takes away all pressure to maintain the strictest integrity in a profession which very much needs the strictest integrity.

I agree with you that the profession needs strict integrity.

I'll disagree with you that holding an entire profession under suspicion is prudent. I'll also disagree with you that nearly every single cop with more than a handful of years in service has witnessed abuse and done nothing about it... that's a baseless speculative argument you have thrust out there to serve your case. It's along the same lines as the '5%' speculation that you have called to question and essentially labelled baseless.

Do you feel your speculation is more legitimate than others speculation? If you don't... this is how you have come across in these last moments.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

RG...

For as balanced as you are on most issues that present themselves on the MT... you are extreme here.

My father-in-law was a cop and I have several friends that are cops. They are all excellent people. Now granted, in Canada, we don't have the same issues as the US which might lead to different attitudes developing within police people; however, to so easily dismiss a profession as corrupt and morally bankrupt is highly inappropriate.

You know... the MT community is funny. For example, it moves en masse to quickly defend Islam's integrity when Islamic radicals blow people up, yet by many of the same people... police are not afforded the same level of understanding.

Listen, I know cops too.  I'm not saying they are terrible people.  I'm not saying their lives are entirely without integrity or morals. 
What I am saying is that nearly every single cop with more than a handful of years in service has witnessed abuse and done nothing about it for a host of reasons, from the perfectly understandable up to the abhorrent.
That is troubling to varying degrees, but it is just ridiculous that people want to paint this "few bad apples" portrait that conveniently takes away all pressure to maintain the strictest integrity in a profession which very much needs the strictest integrity.

I agree with you that the profession needs strict integrity.

I'll disagree with you that holding an entire profession under suspicion is prudent. I'll also disagree with you that nearly every single cop with more than a handful of years in service has witnessed abuse and done nothing about it... that's a baseless speculative argument you have thrust out there to serve your case. It's along the same lines as the '5%' speculation that you have called to question and essentially labelled baseless.

Do you feel your speculation is more legitimate than others speculation? If you don't... this is how you have come across in these last moments.

Yes, I do feel it's a more legitimate speculation, because it's obvious.  If you weren't Canadian, I'd bet the farm your father in law would admit to seeing abuse.  Every cop I've ever known had no problem admitting it.
You almost literally can't find a police department in America that hasn't splashed local headlines with a scandal, that hasn't paid money out in suits,  that hasn't had uninvestigated complaints.  It's just ridiculous to take the aggregate of information available in the media and say, "Yes, I have seen the proven results that transcend all geographic and social factors, but I'm refusing to extrapolate that data at all, I believe people are good and each of those instances is an unrelated, individual abberation."
It could be that part of the divide here is probably in that you don't see abuse of power when the recipients are bad guys, you have shown that again and again.  You don't care what cops do to scumbags, but I do.  I don't feel bad for the scumbags, but I strongly believe that police are not a punitive force.  Period.  It's not their job to hit a restrained scumbag in the head, even if he deserves it.  Period.

rgambs

tbergs said:

rgambs said:

tbergs said:

rgambs said:

tbergs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

You posted this already.

I asked you why this didn't include the fourth type? The type that goes to work and comes home after work doing the best they can.

Ask yourself the same question you just asked of another person in your last post. You're losing your mind, man.

See, that's just cute.
The fourth type.  
The fourth type must be deaf and blind lol

Or maybe just raised in a pot smoking home lol

Actually, if anyone thinks this is true or that there are only even 4 types, they are being ridiculous. We all know there are bad ones, but you better believe the goods ones are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of the shitty ones. This isn't the 60's and 70's. Of all the cops in the country, you've probably got less than 5% who fall in to the "3" types of cop.

I'm going to take a wild guess that no one here is a cop, which therefore makes it hard to understand dealing with drug dealers/users (and I'm talking about the meth, heroine and coke stuff), drunk assholes, domestic violence, sexual assault, thieves and all around shitty human beings on a daily basis so these individuals don't inconvenience or hassle you and yours as you go about your life.

So more than 95% of cops are pulling 200% of their weight to get rid of bad cops and practically every independent investigation of police departments in America still turns up corruption and illegal activities being covered up?
Damn.


The second paragraph has nothing to do with it, the struggles of the job have nothing to do with doing it honestly and with integrity.

No, not how I meant it. I merely meant the 3 types is less than 5% (that's still a lot across the country mind you, around 40,000!) Not everyone of the remaining 95% are pulling 200%, but they also aren't the dead weight asshole cop who is pulling the profession down. Mostly probably keeping an even keel, much like any profession.

My point with the 2nd statement is in response to anyone claiming there are only 3 types or that to be a good cop they are deaf and blind. That's fucking bullshit and is demeaning to those dealing with that shit everyday and sticking with it. If someone beats up and robs you, you're going to want that so called deaf and blind cop as much as you discredit them when you feel safe and secure in your home right now.

How is it possible that only 5% of police officers have seen abuses and failed to report and follow up on them?  That's just ridiculous, it makes me think you have never met a cop or seen any studies or investigations that report and uncover police abuse.

Why does 5% seem ridiculous? That's a national average that I'm speculating. That means 20% of a certain department could be part of the overall 5% therefore you have an overly problematic department, but then another department has 0%. The department with 0% is never going to make the headlines and generally is ignored while the 20% will be broadcast like the problem is rampant across the profession. When you hear about these issues, it's usually a department that has fallen under bad leadership and the quality of the staff have eroded based on the climate of the workplace and co-workers; shit begets shit.

I'll ask you this, when you think of cops, do you have a negative or positive perspective? If so either way, why? Is it based on personal experience and direct word of mouth from others or media coverage? Just trying to understand where you are coming from on this.

I think of the profession of policing in a generally negative way, I think of the individuals who engage in police work as normal folks like me, who have a tough job that comes with some strange conditions.
Obviously it's more complicated than that though.
To make generalizations, sheriff departments have a better reputation for helping people, but their structure allows for the least oversight and therefore the greatest potential for abuse.  State Highway Patrol are revenue collecting ex-military folks and they act like it.  City cops are somewhere in between.
Of course, it goes without saying that generalizations can get you into big trouble if you take them too seriously, but those ones have been pretty spot on in my experience.

I have dealt with police abuse as an individual and I have seen much of it in the media, from local to national.  I see no reason to take a mountain of data and discard it as marginal, I think it is only out of personal desire that people take nationwide trends and ignore them as anomalies.

rgambs

Shit, I left this paragraph out!
On the good side, State Highway Patrol is on the front line of vehicle safety and dealing with road accidents, and I admire their tenacity and dedication to serving the public in this way.
City cops deal with criminals that are actively and passively threatening the community, and at it's core that is what police work is really about, why it's really necessary.

tbergs

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

RG...

For as balanced as you are on most issues that present themselves on the MT... you are extreme here.

My father-in-law was a cop and I have several friends that are cops. They are all excellent people. Now granted, in Canada, we don't have the same issues as the US which might lead to different attitudes developing within police people; however, to so easily dismiss a profession as corrupt and morally bankrupt is highly inappropriate.

You know... the MT community is funny. For example, it moves en masse to quickly defend Islam's integrity when Islamic radicals blow people up, yet by many of the same people... police are not afforded the same level of understanding.

Listen, I know cops too.  I'm not saying they are terrible people.  I'm not saying their lives are entirely without integrity or morals. 
What I am saying is that nearly every single cop with more than a handful of years in service has witnessed abuse and done nothing about it for a host of reasons, from the perfectly understandable up to the abhorrent.
That is troubling to varying degrees, but it is just ridiculous that people want to paint this "few bad apples" portrait that conveniently takes away all pressure to maintain the strictest integrity in a profession which very much needs the strictest integrity.

I agree with you that the profession needs strict integrity.

I'll disagree with you that holding an entire profession under suspicion is prudent. I'll also disagree with you that nearly every single cop with more than a handful of years in service has witnessed abuse and done nothing about it... that's a baseless speculative argument you have thrust out there to serve your case. It's along the same lines as the '5%' speculation that you have called to question and essentially labelled baseless.

Do you feel your speculation is more legitimate than others speculation? If you don't... this is how you have come across in these last moments.

Yes, I do feel it's a more legitimate speculation, because it's obvious.  If you weren't Canadian, I'd bet the farm your father in law would admit to seeing abuse.  Every cop I've ever known had no problem admitting it.
You almost literally can't find a police department in America that hasn't splashed local headlines with a scandal, that hasn't paid money out in suits,  that hasn't had uninvestigated complaints.  It's just ridiculous to take the aggregate of information available in the media and say, "Yes, I have seen the proven results that transcend all geographic and social factors, but I'm refusing to extrapolate that data at all, I believe people are good and each of those instances is an unrelated, individual abberation."
It could be that part of the divide here is probably in that you don't see abuse of power when the recipients are bad guys, you have shown that again and again.  You don't care what cops do to scumbags, but I do.  I don't feel bad for the scumbags, but I strongly believe that police are not a punitive force.  Period.  It's not their job to hit a restrained scumbag in the head, even if he deserves it.  Period.

I am going to call bullshit on the first part of the bolded above. If you want to track back every police/sheriff's department 40 - 50 years, than this may be a little more accurate, but it's still as ridiculous as saying every company in the nation abuses power or is corrupt because they've terminated employees for policy violations or not fired/disciplined an employee for known abuse/misuse of the authority/position. Trying to isolate this problem to law enforcement is being ignorant. It's a human problem, not a profession. Humans are corrupt, human are malicious, humans are greedy and sometimes they are employed in positions that allow them to manipulate to a more public awareness.

To the second bolded part, so you're taking the mass media account of the state of law enforcement and applying it to everywhere and everyone? That is ridiculous. The police are by no means perfect, but they are less violent, corrupt and more involved in the community than they ever have been and that's because the profession is evolving as it should. Less militaristic responses to situations and people and more verbal de-escalation with less force being used.

Yes, you can probably hear a second or third hand account of a cop doing something they shouldn't have, but that one account doesn't extrapolate to an entire profession and it's workforce. That's the 5% sticking out like a sore thumb because that behavior and attitude is not being tolerated like it was even 20 years ago.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

RG...

For as balanced as you are on most issues that present themselves on the MT... you are extreme here.

My father-in-law was a cop and I have several friends that are cops. They are all excellent people. Now granted, in Canada, we don't have the same issues as the US which might lead to different attitudes developing within police people; however, to so easily dismiss a profession as corrupt and morally bankrupt is highly inappropriate.

You know... the MT community is funny. For example, it moves en masse to quickly defend Islam's integrity when Islamic radicals blow people up, yet by many of the same people... police are not afforded the same level of understanding.

Listen, I know cops too.  I'm not saying they are terrible people.  I'm not saying their lives are entirely without integrity or morals. 
What I am saying is that nearly every single cop with more than a handful of years in service has witnessed abuse and done nothing about it for a host of reasons, from the perfectly understandable up to the abhorrent.
That is troubling to varying degrees, but it is just ridiculous that people want to paint this "few bad apples" portrait that conveniently takes away all pressure to maintain the strictest integrity in a profession which very much needs the strictest integrity.

I agree with you that the profession needs strict integrity.

I'll disagree with you that holding an entire profession under suspicion is prudent. I'll also disagree with you that nearly every single cop with more than a handful of years in service has witnessed abuse and done nothing about it... that's a baseless speculative argument you have thrust out there to serve your case. It's along the same lines as the '5%' speculation that you have called to question and essentially labelled baseless.

Do you feel your speculation is more legitimate than others speculation? If you don't... this is how you have come across in these last moments.

Yes, I do feel it's a more legitimate speculation, because it's obvious.  If you weren't Canadian, I'd bet the farm your father in law would admit to seeing abuse.  Every cop I've ever known had no problem admitting it.
You almost literally can't find a police department in America that hasn't splashed local headlines with a scandal, that hasn't paid money out in suits,  that hasn't had uninvestigated complaints.  It's just ridiculous to take the aggregate of information available in the media and say, "Yes, I have seen the proven results that transcend all geographic and social factors, but I'm refusing to extrapolate that data at all, I believe people are good and each of those instances is an unrelated, individual abberation."
It could be that part of the divide here is probably in that you don't see abuse of power when the recipients are bad guys, you have shown that again and again.  You don't care what cops do to scumbags, but I do.  I don't feel bad for the scumbags, but I strongly believe that police are not a punitive force.  Period.  It's not their job to hit a restrained scumbag in the head, even if he deserves it.  Period.

Wrong.

Unlike you... I have acknowledged both situations fairly in the high profile cases we have discussed: clear cut abuse cases (Rice, Thomas, etc.) and cases where force was appropriate given the situation (Brown, etc.).

Wasn't it you that suggested cops retreat into their cars and wait until that knife wielding maniac was tired or ready to give up versus take him down when he tried to attack them? You called it a tactical retreat. I mean... think of this, man. Just think of how far to the extreme you have taken your position. Your idea of good police work is for police to act as 'criminal whisperers' and have dangerous offenders taken into custody after cops have successfully convinced them of the error of their ways.