Byrnzie,A point I was trying to get across earlier although my thoughts may not translate so well is this.By concessions and compromise I am referring to an end game,not rear view mirror stuff. I truly think both sides have some horrible game plans and flaws in strategy. On the Palestinian side I think if Hamas quit lobbing bombs 100% then All excuses would be off the table for the Israelis.For the first time in decades you have the worlds ear and they are seeing your plight.Play the peaceful underdog card here and watch how more people take notice.Like it or not Hamas Clouds your message and trivializes it to some degree.You give your opponent a reason to continue.I think this was played wrong by the powers that be,and your cause could have really used it to your advantage. On the Israeli side they woulda been better off trying to turn regular Palestinians against Hamas by giving them a Nugget of good will,like a loosening of Shoreline restrictions and open things up a bit,Making Hamas(Israel's intended enemy)Look like the bad guy.They should have ignored a little of the bombing and said to the world "look at how tolerant we are,We are doing no retaliating against Hamas as the bomb us"Again gaining a propaganda edge. Dumb ass strategies employed now by both sides. This conflict has to be won with politics,not war.Hamas can not and will not win militarily.The best play to really help the people is to stop the bombs and let the world opinion and propaganda play out.
Your entire post here shows that you lack a very basic understanding of the nature of Zionism.
The Israeli war on Gaza is not a betrayal of Zionism. It is its fulfillment. Pure and simple.
And guess what? International law says that a people under occupation have the right to resist it. The onus is not on Hamas, who you hysterically consider "one of the powers" in this conflict (are you shitting me?). It is on Israel.
fuck, I had only ever heard of this being the 'fulfillment of Zionism' from particularly religious people, who I had written off as extremist zealots and ignored their absurd ideas. Could you clarify where this notion of a necessary war on Gaza comes from? Thank you for your posts - I learn something with almost every one you make.
Zionism is not simply a fringe, extremist religious movement. Zionism is the essence of Israel itself. And believe it or not, a large segment of, and perhaps the most effective Zionists in the early modern period (early 1900s and even after Israel was created) were in fact atheists. Yes, they used Jewish religious principles, but believe it or not, many Jews who disagreed with the Zionist project during those days were the more religious ones, who believed that Jews were not supposed to bring about a state of their own, on their own.
The Zionist project calls for a "Jewish state", meaning a state in which the majority of the population is Jewish. This was difficult in 1947, when 67% of the population in historic Palestine (which includes modern day Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza) was Palestinian Christians and Muslims. The 33% of which were Jewish included Palestinian Jews who Zionists claimed for their own national project. So the Zionists faced a quandary: how do we create a Jewish state with so many Palestinians here? This is why all the major Zionist leaders dealt with the issue of having to expel Palestinians, which culminated in their ethnic cleansing campaign during 1947-48 in which 750,000 Palestinians were expelled. The Zionists now had a majority population and declared their own state. Those Palestinians to this day live in refugee camps with their children and grandchildren in the hundreds of thousands, while others emigrated elsewhere. My grandmother for instance watched her father murdered in front of her by Zionist paramilitary organizations (terrorists) and then had to walk several miles on foot carrying barely anything to reach safety.
During the early 1950s, many of those Palestinians tried to return to Palestine, to their homes, and were shot on the spot by Israeli soldiers manning the borders. Thousands were killed this way.
This did not satisfy Israel. All the rhetoric of its Zionist leaders still spoke of the day they would conquer the West Bank (which they call "Judea and Samaria" and which holds much significance in Jewish history), the Gaza Strip and the Sinai peninsula (which was Egypt's). In 1967, Israel launched an offensive to take this land to fulfill their Zionist dream of controlling the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River (the West Bank is on the "west" of the Jordan River). All the rhetoric of Zionist leaders declares this. In 1967, a further 400,000 Palestinians were forced from their homes.
Finally, during the 1970s, religious Zionist movements (which you refer to in your post) sprung up and became more popular, because they took advantage of the religious significance the West Bank and East Jerusalem (which was also captured and occupied in 1967) hold to Jews, at the expense of Christians and Muslims of course. They began encouraging Jewish settlement in this area. Of course, even though they did not dominate the government, Zionists still strongly believe in settling this area and supported it. So-called "leftist" Zionists, like some who post on this very forum but who shall remain nameless , state that they oppose the settlements, even while forgiving the crimes of the nakba, and denying Palestinians the ability to return home. In my view, they only oppose the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza because they see it as a threat to their Zionist vision altogether, and simply want to hold onto the 78% of historic Palestine that they already control. So long as Israel maintains the settlements in the West Bank and continues mixing with the 2.5 million Palestinians who live there (though they make it hard to "mix" with them given checkpoints, a separation wall, separate highways, and so on), then the Zionist vision comes under threat since there are already nearly 2 million Palestinians living inside Israel proper (hence the "demographic threat" to the "Jewishness" of Israel that Zionists often speak of -- can you imagine this language? Palestinians pose a "threat" simply by existing!).
This same logic also explains the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005. There is nearly 1.8 million Palestinians in that tiny strip of land, and there were only 8000 Jewish settlers there. It seemed hardly worth the trouble. Withdrawing from it solves the "demographic threat" all those Palestinians pose, thus they were able to rid themselves of them, while also implementing a brutal siege and simply turning that strip of land into an open-air prison.
Any form of resistance from the Palestinian side has to be met with a brutal harsh policy of violence from Israel -- this has been historically true. During the first intifada which began in 1988, which was overwhelmingly nonviolent, Israel implemented a "break the bones" policy, which literally meant soldiers would take nonviolent protesters aside, take stones and break their bones with them to prove that NO resistance to the implementation of the Zionist project will be tolerated. And people wonder why Palestinian factions employed armed resistance as a tactic against this brutal machine.
Occupations like this, that have a strong ideology behind them which drives them to continue their settler colonial project (which began even when settler colonies were no longer really the cool thing to do), cannot be dealt with in a rational way. This is why activists call for sanctioning and boycotting Israel. You cannot deal with a savage lunatic state that has been implementing its racist vision at the expense of another people for decades in a logical way. We on the outside can try to do it forcefully, just as we did with apartheid South Africa.
I'm going to have to agree with my friend here... Holy shit fuck is just about the only thing I can think of. Really makes you realize how little is being asked when Palestinians ask for the freedom to walk across this land without checkpoints, to eat in their own homes and not have to beg for their food, and to be treated like fucking human beings.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'm going to have to agree with my friend here... Holy shit fuck is just about the only thing I can think of. Really makes you realize how little is being asked when Palestinians ask for the freedom to walk across this land without checkpoints, to eat in their own homes and not have to beg for their food, and to be treated like fucking human beings.
I think we can all agree that Ben needs to go Israel and run for office! And fuck can lead the Palestinians. Conflict OVER, pearl jam in tel aviv AND Gaza. Right on the water in Gaza too! I know I know, wishful thinking, but a man can dream........
I'm going to have to agree with my friend here... Holy shit fuck is just about the only thing I can think of. Really makes you realize how little is being asked when Palestinians ask for the freedom to walk across this land without checkpoints, to eat in their own homes and not have to beg for their food, and to be treated like fucking human beings.
To bring it back to this thread -- what do many Palestinians call for? Three basic things: 1) equal rights to Jews 2) an end to the occupation 3) the right for Palestinian refugees who were forced out by Zionists to return home
If there could be one, secular state with equal rights for all, with no discrimination whatsoever, that is all Palestinians call for. And yet, Zionists reject this and infringing upon the "Jewishness" of their state -- "Jewishness" which was formed artificially (by ethnic cleansing) I might add! And what do they say? "You want one state where Palestinians and Israelis have equal rights for all? You don't want Israel to exist!"
And you know what? Yeah, I don't want "Israel", the same "Israel" that demands that there are more Jews than Arabs to the point where they expel my family and thousands upon thousands of other families out of their homes to preserve this so-called "Jewishness", to exist. Just as I did not want Apartheid South Africa to exist. What I don't want to "exist" is this racist Zionist vision. But one state where everyone has equal rights -- yeah, I'd like to see that exist. But that's not what Israel is.
Interesting that from your name, such an educated, informing, non-confrontational post was had. Thank you. Just goes to show, don't judge a book..... "Do the Evolve(alution)"
"Feel the path of everyday....which road you taking?"
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
On the Palestinian side I think if Hamas quit lobbing bombs 100% then All excuses would be off the table for the Israelis.
If this were true, then why has no progress been made during all of the long-held ceasefires and the absence of any rocket attacks?
From the BBC: 'On 7 July, Hamas claimed responsibility for firing rockets for the first time in 20 months, after a series of Israeli air strikes in which several members of its armed wing were killed.' http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28252155
On the Palestinian side I think if Hamas quit lobbing bombs 100% then All excuses would be off the table for the Israelis.
If this were true, then why has no progress been made during all of the long-held ceasefires and the absence of any rocket attacks?
From the BBC: 'On 7 July, Hamas claimed responsibility for firing rockets for the first time in 20 months, after a series of Israeli air strikes in which several members of its armed wing were killed.' http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28252155
When people brought up the rockets from Hamas going into Israel, first you diminished their significance due to Iron Dome and the homemade nature of the rockets. Then you deflected their significance, saying that if Gaza and the West Bank were properly liberated, there would be no need for the rockets. Now you say that, because Hamas only claimed responsibility for July 7th attacks and further, they were innocent prior to that?
I'm sure you will tell me that the Israel Security Agency are too biased to be believed (or entirely falsified) but here's June 2014 (http://www.shabak.gov.il/English/EnTerrorData/Reports/Pages/Monthlysummary–June2014.aspx) and you can look at the rest for each and every other month and see that, except for two months in the past twenty months, rockets were lobbed from Palestinian regions. It doesn't change the fact that progress should have been made in the liberation of Palestinian regions, and that the Israeli government was likely the one acting with absurd and self-serving stubbornness in my opinion, but you've got to be honest here about the context.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
When people brought up the rockets from Hamas going into Israel, first you diminished their significance due to Iron Dome and the homemade nature of the rockets. Then you deflected their significance, saying that if Gaza and the West Bank were properly liberated, there would be no need for the rockets. Now you say that, because Hamas only claimed responsibility for July 7th attacks and further, they were innocent prior to that?
When people brought up the rockets from Hamas going into Israel, first you diminished their significance due to Iron Dome and the homemade nature of the rockets. Then you deflected their significance, saying that if Gaza and the West Bank were properly liberated, there would be no need for the rockets. Now you say that, because Hamas only claimed responsibility for July 7th attacks and further, they were innocent prior to that?
So where's the contradiction?
Well, that depends if you would quote my full statement or not.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
O.k, maybe they were fired by Hamas. Though it could be that they were fired by the Al Asqa Brigades, or some other breakaway group. The BBC would surely be the last organization to give Hamas the benefit of the doubt.
O.k, maybe they were fired by Hamas. Though it could be that they were fired by the Al Asqa Brigades, or some other breakaway group. The BBC would surely be the last organization to give Hamas the benefit of the doubt.
I'm going to go with Occam's Razor, and suggest it was probably Hamas. I'm also going to say that it doesn't even matter though: these are responses to an occupied (or at least greatly inhibited) existence, so it honestly is a moot point. In my opinion, however, the world has taken notice to the plight of the Palestinians, and all eyes are focused to find out what happens next. If Hamas's interests are truly aligned with the Palestinians, it seems to me that, given this global attention, now would be the time to lay down their arms. An underdog with weapons (weak as they are) is still seen as militaristic: an underdog who lays down their arms to continue to be under constant attack - that's an underdog which the world (regardless of religious or political affiliation) will not stand by and allow to exist that way.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
O.k, maybe they were fired by Hamas. Though it could be that they were fired by the Al Asqa Brigades, or some other breakaway group. The BBC would surely be the last organization to give Hamas the benefit of the doubt.
In my opinion, however, the world has taken notice to the plight of the Palestinians, and all eyes are focused to find out what happens next. If Hamas's interests are truly aligned with the Palestinians, it seems to me that, given this global attention, now would be the time to lay down their arms. An underdog with weapons (weak as they are) is still seen as militaristic: an underdog who lays down their arms to continue to be under constant attack - that's an underdog which the world (regardless of religious or political affiliation) will not stand by and allow to exist that way.
I think the world already had noticed (taken note of) the plight of the Palestinians many years ago, It was the US that really stood in the way of justice, and now, more people here in the US are the ones taking notice.
I do completely agree, now would be a great time to lay down the arms.
It is an embarrassing time to be an American. No doubt.
Don't let one bad policy in your opinion spoil you on the Hundreds/Thousands of benevolent and wonderful things we do around the world as a country.We are far from perfect,But who is?
Remember we give Pakistan(3.2 bill) and Afghanistan (3.9 bil) 2012 numbers, and almost a billion more a year then Israel.Also 2/3 of our foreign aid money goes to Muslim countries.(Source is Forbes).with another big chunk to Arab based countries.
Is that supposed to be a compliment?? Boasting about the badly distributed, largely misappropriated "aid" that the US basically pours down the drain every year?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It is an embarrassing time to be an American. No doubt.
Don't let one bad policy in your opinion spoil you on the Hundreds/Thousands of benevolent and wonderful things we do around the world as a country.We are far from perfect,But who is?
Remember we give Pakistan(3.2 bill) and Afghanistan (3.9 bil) 2012 numbers, and almost a billion more a year then Israel.Also 2/3 of our foreign aid money goes to Muslim countries.(Source is Forbes).with another big chunk to Arab based countries.
Is that supposed to be a compliment?? Boasting about the badly distributed, largely misappropriated "aid" that the US basically pours down the drain every year?
No,I don't think so.Some of the money goes to humanitarian aid.That part I think can do some good.Money better spent.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
OP. I have a simple question for you. Do Palestinians have a right to exist?
Hi Ogre, just to let you know, I am still waiting for a reply.
Respectfully, American Taxpayer funding this bullshit.
Good morning/afternoon Ogre,
I can be a fairly patient guy when I put the effort in. Just to let you know, I would very much appreciate an answer to my question.
Respectfully,
American Taxpayer whos not supposed to second guess but certainly keep my tax money flowing
Dumb question. Everyone has a right to exist. Until they start shooting rockets at innocent civilians, and abducting and murdering innocent civilians. There is no tolerance for that. Hamas is a terrorist organization dedicated to Israels (the only real democracy in the middle east) destruction. Just like all the Arab nations wanted to do in 1948 and 1967. But failed miserably. Just like every other terror organization in the world wants. Please look up hamas on Wikipedia. Read all the barbaric quotes by their leaders. It's horrific. To support an organization like this is to support terrorism at its worst. These people are actively putting all civilians lives in danger including their own. Life and peace means nothing to them. All they want is to wipe Israel off the map. They want blood and death. They have a baby and they are excited to sacrifice their baby so that Israel looks bad to the world. Or let them attend a school like this - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/28/hamas-un-holocaust-lessons-gaza
I know I'm not convincing you of anything or telling you something you don't already know. But know, If you support hamas and they take over Israel, Jews and Christians will never be allowed to visit their religious landmarks ever again. Every Jew and Christian will be killed. And I'm sure you all will be so happy about it.
PS this all sucks. Every death is a tragedy. I wish everyone can live in peace. Build schools and hospitals and homes etc.
OP. I have a simple question for you. Do Palestinians have a right to exist?
Hi Ogre, just to let you know, I am still waiting for a reply.
Respectfully, American Taxpayer funding this bullshit.
Good morning/afternoon Ogre,
I can be a fairly patient guy when I put the effort in. Just to let you know, I would very much appreciate an answer to my question.
Respectfully,
American Taxpayer whos not supposed to second guess but certainly keep my tax money flowing
Dumb question. Everyone has a right to exist. Until they start shooting rockets at innocent civilians, and abducting and murdering innocent civilians. There is no tolerance for that. Hamas is a terrorist organization dedicated to Israels (the only real democracy in the middle east) destruction. Just like all the Arab nations wanted to do in 1948 and 1967. But failed miserably. Just like every other terror organization in the world wants. Please look up hamas on Wikipedia. Read all the barbaric quotes by their leaders. It's horrific. To support an organization like this is to support terrorism at its worst. These people are actively putting all civilians lives in danger including their own. Life and peace means nothing to them. All they want is to wipe Israel off the map. They want blood and death. They have a baby and they are excited to sacrifice their baby so that Israel looks bad to the world. Or let them attend a school like this - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/28/hamas-un-holocaust-lessons-gaza
I know I'm not convincing you of anything or telling you something you don't already know. But know, If you support hamas and they take over Israel, Jews and Christians will never be allowed to visit their religious landmarks ever again. Every Jew and Christian will be killed. And I'm sure you all will be so happy about it.
PS this all sucks. Every death is a tragedy. I wish everyone can live in peace. Build schools and hospitals and homes etc.
As for quotes , horrific or barbaric in nature, Byrnzie has already posted a treasure trove from various leaders throughout Israels history. The speak directly to the actions Israel has taken and continues to take.
I;d like to refer you to the first page of this thread. I posted a series of questions that I do not believe were ever addressed.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
What's scary is that Ogre actually believes all of that shit he just posted.
Apart from the part about wishing everyone could live in peace. He wishes nothing of the sort. If he did then he'd be campaigning for an end to Israel's 47 year old illegal occupation and land-grab. But that's not what Israelis like him are concerned about. They'd rather just see the Palestinians either continuing to live like dogs and make no resistance to the occupation, or for them to simply be wiped off the face of the Earth.
If Hamas only wants destruction to Israel and wants all Jews dead, then they are really really really fucking bad at it. Since 1987 how many Jews have they killed by hamas? What do they use to destroy Israel? However many the number and whatever they use its not working, at all. Israel has gotten larger and so has the Jewish population.
all must die,and only Greeks to stay alive.. we were here in the planet before you bitches!!!
and hot girls to stay alive,ill allow that!!
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Why was that particular piece of land given to Israel? Admittedly I'm not a huge follower of this region of the world. Was Israel created as a fallout from WW2? If so, why did they not partition off part of Germany for Israel? or Italy? Seems to be a solvable problem. Or not?
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
The Zionist project calls for a "Jewish state", meaning a state in which the majority of the population is Jewish. This was difficult in 1947, when 67% of the population in historic Palestine (which includes modern day Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza) was Palestinian Christians and Muslims. The 33% of which were Jewish included Palestinian Jews who Zionists claimed for their own national project. So the Zionists faced a quandary: how do we create a Jewish state with so many Palestinians here? This is why all the major Zionist leaders dealt with the issue of having to expel Palestinians, which culminated in their ethnic cleansing campaign during 1947-48 in which 750,000 Palestinians were expelled. The Zionists now had a majority population and declared their own state. Those Palestinians to this day live in refugee camps with their children and grandchildren in the hundreds of thousands, while others emigrated elsewhere. My grandmother for instance watched her father murdered in front of her by Zionist paramilitary organizations (terrorists) and then had to walk several miles on foot carrying barely anything to reach safety.
During the early 1950s, many of those Palestinians tried to return to Palestine, to their homes, and were shot on the spot by Israeli soldiers manning the borders. Thousands were killed this way.
This did not satisfy Israel. All the rhetoric of its Zionist leaders still spoke of the day they would conquer the West Bank (which they call "Judea and Samaria" and which holds much significance in Jewish history), the Gaza Strip and the Sinai peninsula (which was Egypt's). In 1967, Israel launched an offensive to take this land to fulfill their Zionist dream of controlling the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River (the West Bank is on the "west" of the Jordan River). All the rhetoric of Zionist leaders declares this. In 1967, a further 400,000 Palestinians were forced from their homes.
Finally, during the 1970s, religious Zionist movements (which you refer to in your post) sprung up and became more popular, because they took advantage of the religious significance the West Bank and East Jerusalem (which was also captured and occupied in 1967) hold to Jews, at the expense of Christians and Muslims of course. They began encouraging Jewish settlement in this area. Of course, even though they did not dominate the government, Zionists still strongly believe in settling this area and supported it. So-called "leftist" Zionists, like some who post on this very forum but who shall remain nameless
This same logic also explains the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005. There is nearly 1.8 million Palestinians in that tiny strip of land, and there were only 8000 Jewish settlers there. It seemed hardly worth the trouble. Withdrawing from it solves the "demographic threat" all those Palestinians pose, thus they were able to rid themselves of them, while also implementing a brutal siege and simply turning that strip of land into an open-air prison.
Any form of resistance from the Palestinian side has to be met with a brutal harsh policy of violence from Israel -- this has been historically true. During the first intifada which began in 1988, which was overwhelmingly nonviolent, Israel implemented a "break the bones" policy, which literally meant soldiers would take nonviolent protesters aside, take stones and break their bones with them to prove that NO resistance to the implementation of the Zionist project will be tolerated. And people wonder why Palestinian factions employed armed resistance as a tactic against this brutal machine.
Occupations like this, that have a strong ideology behind them which drives them to continue their settler colonial project (which began even when settler colonies were no longer really the cool thing to do), cannot be dealt with in a rational way. This is why activists call for sanctioning and boycotting Israel. You cannot deal with a savage lunatic state that has been implementing its racist vision at the expense of another people for decades in a logical way. We on the outside can try to do it forcefully, just as we did with apartheid South Africa.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
1) equal rights to Jews
2) an end to the occupation
3) the right for Palestinian refugees who were forced out by Zionists to return home
If there could be one, secular state with equal rights for all, with no discrimination whatsoever, that is all Palestinians call for. And yet, Zionists reject this and infringing upon the "Jewishness" of their state -- "Jewishness" which was formed artificially (by ethnic cleansing) I might add! And what do they say? "You want one state where Palestinians and Israelis have equal rights for all? You don't want Israel to exist!"
And you know what? Yeah, I don't want "Israel", the same "Israel" that demands that there are more Jews than Arabs to the point where they expel my family and thousands upon thousands of other families out of their homes to preserve this so-called "Jewishness", to exist. Just as I did not want Apartheid South Africa to exist. What I don't want to "exist" is this racist Zionist vision. But one state where everyone has equal rights -- yeah, I'd like to see that exist. But that's not what Israel is.
"Do the Evolve(alution)"
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
Respectfully,
American Taxpayer funding this bullshit.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
From the BBC: 'On 7 July, Hamas claimed responsibility for firing rockets for the first time in 20 months, after a series of Israeli air strikes in which several members of its armed wing were killed.'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28252155
I'm sure you will tell me that the Israel Security Agency are too biased to be believed (or entirely falsified) but here's June 2014 (http://www.shabak.gov.il/English/EnTerrorData/Reports/Pages/Monthlysummary–June2014.aspx) and you can look at the rest for each and every other month and see that, except for two months in the past twenty months, rockets were lobbed from Palestinian regions. It doesn't change the fact that progress should have been made in the liberation of Palestinian regions, and that the Israeli government was likely the one acting with absurd and self-serving stubbornness in my opinion, but you've got to be honest here about the context.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
The BBC would surely be the last organization to give Hamas the benefit of the doubt.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I do completely agree, now would be a great time to lay down the arms.
I can be a fairly patient guy when I put the effort in. Just to let you know, I would very much appreciate an answer to my question.
Respectfully,
American Taxpayer whos not supposed to second guess but certainly keep my tax money flowing
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Everyone has a right to exist.
Until they start shooting rockets at innocent civilians, and abducting and murdering innocent civilians. There is no tolerance for that.
Hamas is a terrorist organization dedicated to Israels (the only real democracy in the middle east) destruction. Just like all the Arab nations wanted to do in 1948 and 1967. But failed miserably. Just like every other terror organization in the world wants.
Please look up hamas on Wikipedia. Read all the barbaric quotes by their leaders. It's horrific.
To support an organization like this is to support terrorism at its worst.
These people are actively putting all civilians lives in danger including their own.
Life and peace means nothing to them. All they want is to wipe Israel off the map. They want blood and death.
They have a baby and they are excited to sacrifice their baby so that Israel looks bad to the world. Or let them attend a school like this - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/28/hamas-un-holocaust-lessons-gaza
I know I'm not convincing you of anything or telling you something you don't already know.
But know, If you support hamas and they take over Israel, Jews and Christians will never be allowed to visit their religious landmarks ever again. Every Jew and Christian will be killed. And I'm sure you all will be so happy about it.
PS this all sucks. Every death is a tragedy. I wish everyone can live in peace. Build schools and hospitals and homes etc.
I;d like to refer you to the first page of this thread. I posted a series of questions that I do not believe were ever addressed.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Apart from the part about wishing everyone could live in peace. He wishes nothing of the sort. If he did then he'd be campaigning for an end to Israel's 47 year old illegal occupation and land-grab. But that's not what Israelis like him are concerned about. They'd rather just see the Palestinians either continuing to live like dogs and make no resistance to the occupation, or for them to simply be wiped off the face of the Earth.
Since 1987 how many Jews have they killed by hamas? What do they use to destroy Israel? However many the number and whatever they use its not working, at all. Israel has gotten larger and so has the Jewish population.
we were here in the planet before you bitches!!!
and hot girls to stay alive,ill allow that!!
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon