Simple question: Do you support Israel's right to exist?

Byrnzie

rr165892 said:

On the Palestinian side I think if Hamas quit lobbing bombs 100% then All excuses would be off the table for the Israelis.

If this were true, then why has no progress been made during all of the long-held ceasefires and the absence of any rocket attacks?


From the BBC: 'On 7 July, Hamas claimed responsibility for firing rockets for the first time in 20 months, after a series of Israeli air strikes in which several members of its armed wing were killed.'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28252155

badbrains

mickeyrat said:

mickeyrat said:

OP. I have a simple question for you. Do Palestinians have a right to exist?

Hi Ogre, just to let you know, I am still waiting for a reply.

Respectfully,
American Taxpayer funding this bullshit.

I think you got your answer Mickey. Silence says it all my friend....

benjs

Byrnzie said:

rr165892 said:

On the Palestinian side I think if Hamas quit lobbing bombs 100% then All excuses would be off the table for the Israelis.

If this were true, then why has no progress been made during all of the long-held ceasefires and the absence of any rocket attacks?


From the BBC: 'On 7 July, Hamas claimed responsibility for firing rockets for the first time in 20 months, after a series of Israeli air strikes in which several members of its armed wing were killed.'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28252155

When people brought up the rockets from Hamas going into Israel, first you diminished their significance due to Iron Dome and the homemade nature of the rockets. Then you deflected their significance, saying that if Gaza and the West Bank were properly liberated, there would be no need for the rockets. Now you say that, because Hamas only claimed responsibility for July 7th attacks and further, they were innocent prior to that?

I'm sure you will tell me that the Israel Security Agency are too biased to be believed (or entirely falsified) but here's June 2014 (http://www.shabak.gov.il/English/EnTerrorData/Reports/Pages/Monthlysummary–June2014.aspx) and you can look at the rest for each and every other month and see that, except for two months in the past twenty months, rockets were lobbed from Palestinian regions. It doesn't change the fact that progress should have been made in the liberation of Palestinian regions, and that the Israeli government was likely the one acting with absurd and self-serving stubbornness in my opinion, but you've got to be honest here about the context.

benjs

And by the way, Byrnzie, that doesn't change the fact that I still believe our hopes for the Palestinian regions are aligned.

Byrnzie

benjs said:

When people brought up the rockets from Hamas going into Israel, first you diminished their significance due to Iron Dome and the homemade nature of the rockets. Then you deflected their significance, saying that if Gaza and the West Bank were properly liberated, there would be no need for the rockets. Now you say that, because Hamas only claimed responsibility for July 7th attacks and further, they were innocent prior to that?

So where's the contradiction?

benjs

Byrnzie said:

benjs said:

When people brought up the rockets from Hamas going into Israel, first you diminished their significance due to Iron Dome and the homemade nature of the rockets. Then you deflected their significance, saying that if Gaza and the West Bank were properly liberated, there would be no need for the rockets. Now you say that, because Hamas only claimed responsibility for July 7th attacks and further, they were innocent prior to that?

So where's the contradiction?

Well, that depends if you would quote my full statement or not.

Byrnzie

benjs said:

Well, that depends if you would quote my full statement or not.

O.k, I thought you were implying that the contradiction was in the first paragraph.

Byrnzie

O.k, maybe they were fired by Hamas. Though it could be that they were fired by the Al Asqa Brigades, or some other breakaway group.
The BBC would surely be the last organization to give Hamas the benefit of the doubt.

benjs

Byrnzie said:

O.k, maybe they were fired by Hamas. Though it could be that they were fired by the Al Asqa Brigades, or some other breakaway group.
The BBC would surely be the last organization to give Hamas the benefit of the doubt.

I'm going to go with Occam's Razor, and suggest it was probably Hamas. I'm also going to say that it doesn't even matter though: these are responses to an occupied (or at least greatly inhibited) existence, so it honestly is a moot point. In my opinion, however, the world has taken notice to the plight of the Palestinians, and all eyes are focused to find out what happens next. If Hamas's interests are truly aligned with the Palestinians, it seems to me that, given this global attention, now would be the time to lay down their arms. An underdog with weapons (weak as they are) is still seen as militaristic: an underdog who lays down their arms to continue to be under constant attack - that's an underdog which the world (regardless of religious or political affiliation) will not stand by and allow to exist that way.

Idris

benjs said:

Byrnzie said:

O.k, maybe they were fired by Hamas. Though it could be that they were fired by the Al Asqa Brigades, or some other breakaway group.
The BBC would surely be the last organization to give Hamas the benefit of the doubt.

In my opinion, however, the world has taken notice to the plight of the Palestinians, and all eyes are focused to find out what happens next. If Hamas's interests are truly aligned with the Palestinians, it seems to me that, given this global attention, now would be the time to lay down their arms. An underdog with weapons (weak as they are) is still seen as militaristic: an underdog who lays down their arms to continue to be under constant attack - that's an underdog which the world (regardless of religious or political affiliation) will not stand by and allow to exist that way.

I think the world already had noticed (taken note of) the plight of the Palestinians many years ago, It was the US that really stood in the way of justice, and now, more people here in the US are the ones taking notice.

I do completely agree, now would be a great time to lay down the arms.

PJ_Soul

rr165892 said:

JimmyV said:

It is an embarrassing time to be an American. No doubt.

Don't let one bad policy in your opinion spoil you on the Hundreds/Thousands of benevolent and wonderful things we do around the world as a country.We are far from perfect,But who is?

Remember we give Pakistan(3.2 bill) and Afghanistan (3.9 bil) 2012 numbers, and almost a billion more a year then Israel.Also 2/3 of our foreign aid money goes to Muslim countries.(Source is Forbes).with another big chunk to Arab based countries.

Is that supposed to be a compliment?? Boasting about the badly distributed, largely misappropriated "aid" that the US basically pours down the drain every year?

rr165892

PJ_Soul said:

rr165892 said:

JimmyV said:

It is an embarrassing time to be an American. No doubt.

Don't let one bad policy in your opinion spoil you on the Hundreds/Thousands of benevolent and wonderful things we do around the world as a country.We are far from perfect,But who is?

Remember we give Pakistan(3.2 bill) and Afghanistan (3.9 bil) 2012 numbers, and almost a billion more a year then Israel.Also 2/3 of our foreign aid money goes to Muslim countries.(Source is Forbes).with another big chunk to Arab based countries.

Is that supposed to be a compliment?? Boasting about the badly distributed, largely misappropriated "aid" that the US basically pours down the drain every year?

No,I don't think so.Some of the money goes to humanitarian aid.That part I think can do some good.Money better spent.

mickeyrat

mickeyrat said:

mickeyrat said:

OP. I have a simple question for you. Do Palestinians have a right to exist?

Hi Ogre, just to let you know, I am still waiting for a reply.

Respectfully,
American Taxpayer funding this bullshit.

Good morning/afternoon Ogre,

I can be a fairly patient guy when I put the effort in. Just to let you know, I would very much appreciate an answer to my question.

Respectfully,

American Taxpayer whos not supposed to second guess but certainly keep my tax money flowing

JimmyV

mickeyrat said:

mickeyrat said:

mickeyrat said:

OP. I have a simple question for you. Do Palestinians have a right to exist?

Hi Ogre, just to let you know, I am still waiting for a reply.

Respectfully,
American Taxpayer funding this bullshit.

Good morning/afternoon Ogre,

I can be a fairly patient guy when I put the effort in. Just to let you know, I would very much appreciate an answer to my question.

Respectfully,

American Taxpayer whos not supposed to second guess but certainly keep my tax money flowing

Not an unreasonable request.

ogre1213

mickeyrat said:

mickeyrat said:

mickeyrat said:

OP. I have a simple question for you. Do Palestinians have a right to exist?

Hi Ogre, just to let you know, I am still waiting for a reply.

Respectfully,
American Taxpayer funding this bullshit.

Good morning/afternoon Ogre,

I can be a fairly patient guy when I put the effort in. Just to let you know, I would very much appreciate an answer to my question.

Respectfully,

American Taxpayer whos not supposed to second guess but certainly keep my tax money flowing

Dumb question.
Everyone has a right to exist.
Until they start shooting rockets at innocent civilians, and abducting and murdering innocent civilians. There is no tolerance for that.
Hamas is a terrorist organization dedicated to Israels (the only real democracy in the middle east) destruction. Just like all the Arab nations wanted to do in 1948 and 1967. But failed miserably. Just like every other terror organization in the world wants.
Please look up hamas on Wikipedia. Read all the barbaric quotes by their leaders. It's horrific.
To support an organization like this is to support terrorism at its worst.
These people are actively putting all civilians lives in danger including their own.
Life and peace means nothing to them. All they want is to wipe Israel off the map. They want blood and death.
They have a baby and they are excited to sacrifice their baby so that Israel looks bad to the world. Or let them attend a school like this - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/28/hamas-un-holocaust-lessons-gaza

I know I'm not convincing you of anything or telling you something you don't already know.
But know, If you support hamas and they take over Israel, Jews and Christians will never be allowed to visit their religious landmarks ever again. Every Jew and Christian will be killed. And I'm sure you all will be so happy about it.

PS this all sucks. Every death is a tragedy. I wish everyone can live in peace. Build schools and hospitals and homes etc.

mickeyrat

ogre1213 said:

mickeyrat said:

mickeyrat said:

mickeyrat said:

OP. I have a simple question for you. Do Palestinians have a right to exist?

Hi Ogre, just to let you know, I am still waiting for a reply.

Respectfully,
American Taxpayer funding this bullshit.

Good morning/afternoon Ogre,

I can be a fairly patient guy when I put the effort in. Just to let you know, I would very much appreciate an answer to my question.

Respectfully,

American Taxpayer whos not supposed to second guess but certainly keep my tax money flowing

Dumb question.
Everyone has a right to exist.
Until they start shooting rockets at innocent civilians, and abducting and murdering innocent civilians. There is no tolerance for that.
Hamas is a terrorist organization dedicated to Israels (the only real democracy in the middle east) destruction. Just like all the Arab nations wanted to do in 1948 and 1967. But failed miserably. Just like every other terror organization in the world wants.
Please look up hamas on Wikipedia. Read all the barbaric quotes by their leaders. It's horrific.
To support an organization like this is to support terrorism at its worst.
These people are actively putting all civilians lives in danger including their own.
Life and peace means nothing to them. All they want is to wipe Israel off the map. They want blood and death.
They have a baby and they are excited to sacrifice their baby so that Israel looks bad to the world. Or let them attend a school like this - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/28/hamas-un-holocaust-lessons-gaza

I know I'm not convincing you of anything or telling you something you don't already know.
But know, If you support hamas and they take over Israel, Jews and Christians will never be allowed to visit their religious landmarks ever again. Every Jew and Christian will be killed. And I'm sure you all will be so happy about it.

PS this all sucks. Every death is a tragedy. I wish everyone can live in peace. Build schools and hospitals and homes etc.

As for quotes , horrific or barbaric in nature, Byrnzie has already posted a treasure trove from various leaders throughout Israels history. The speak directly to the actions Israel has taken and continues to take.

I;d like to refer you to the first page of this thread. I posted a series of questions that I do not believe were ever addressed.

Byrnzie

What's scary is that Ogre actually believes all of that shit he just posted.

Apart from the part about wishing everyone could live in peace. He wishes nothing of the sort. If he did then he'd be campaigning for an end to Israel's 47 year old illegal occupation and land-grab. But that's not what Israelis like him are concerned about. They'd rather just see the Palestinians either continuing to live like dogs and make no resistance to the occupation, or for them to simply be wiped off the face of the Earth.

JC29856

If Hamas only wants destruction to Israel and wants all Jews dead, then they are really really really fucking bad at it.
Since 1987 how many Jews have they killed by hamas? What do they use to destroy Israel? However many the number and whatever they use its not working, at all. Israel has gotten larger and so has the Jewish population.

dimitrispearljam

all must die,and only Greeks to stay alive..
we were here in the planet before you bitches!!!

and hot girls to stay alive,ill allow that!!

lukin2006

Why was that particular piece of land given to Israel? Admittedly I'm not a huge follower of this region of the world. Was Israel created as a fallout from WW2? If so, why did they not partition off part of Germany for Israel? or Italy? Seems to be a solvable problem. Or not?