Gaza ***GRAPHIC PICS***

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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    I wonder if they'd chant this at a Pearl Jam concert if PJ ever played in that racist lunatic state?

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/gaza-graveyard-sing-joyful-israeli-youths

    “Gaza is a graveyard,” sing joyful Israeli youths

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7qFACSfd_k

    In her latest post, my colleague Rania Khalek makes reference to “a new racist chant mocking the more than two hundred children slaughtered by Israel’s merciless bombing campaign in Gaza: ‘Tomorrow there’s no school in Gaza, they don’t have any children left.’”

    This video shows an Israeli mob actually singing in celebration of children’s deaths in the style of a soccer fans’ song: “In Gaza there’s no studying, No children are left there, Olé, olé, olé-olé-olé.”
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524

    This question is directed at any Israeli or Jewish person who reads this: Do you think that someone who opposes the actions of Israel in Palestine is antisemitic?

    Not off the bat; that would just be ignorant.

    I let (hope) people's words and actions speak for themselves.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Religious fundamentalism and nationalism is at the root of all this insanity. A complete and tragic waste of human life and resources.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    benjs said:

    This question is directed at any Israeli or Jewish person who reads this: Do you think that someone who opposes the actions of Israel in Palestine is antisemitic?

    Jewish here, and I can only speak for myself, but no, not at all.

    Firstly, a Semite is not strictly a Jew or an Israeli, rather someone who speaks a Semitic language which includes Arabic, Aramaic, and Hebrew. Its current use is a bastardization of an original term which referred to someone from that region, and ought to be retired.

    So, take that one step further, and if you don't mind, I'm going to re-pose your question... "Do you think that someone who opposes the actions of Israel in Palestine is anti-Israel?"

    And now to answer that question - still no, not at all. I love my country (Canada) to death - but if I opposed an action of Canada's, I would hardly call myself anti-Canada, just that I disagree with a current policy/stance. And if I opposed a policy/stance that negatively impacted a large number of people, their quality of life, or even whether they earned the right to live - I don't think labelling would come into my head, to be honest, I would simply say I'm a human being with humanitarian interests.
    Derail moment: yes, anti-Semitic originally referred to language but has evolved to mean anti Jew or anti Israel. So, I guess it's just semantics. I only asked because someone I work with said I was anti-Semitic because I opposed what Israel was doing in Palestine. Even though anyone that knows me knows that I am the least racist or anti bigot or anti anything that they have ever met.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    CIVILIAN SCOREBOARD
    Israel 1088 Points (1036 dead, 75% civilians = 777, children are worth 2 points, based on Israel's 40% accuracy rate, 311 are children)
    Hamas 3 Points (2 civilians and a Thai worker)

  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    benjs said:


    By the way, and I think this is an important distinction - a lot of this discussion has to do with trust. I know what you wrote wasn't intentional or delivered with malice, but your statement at the end about my having proven myself reasonable brings up an important notion: many people, very soon, are going to have to inherently trust the people they formerly called their enemies. It's going to be ages (probably generations) until a TRUE peace sweeps the area (ie. the abolishment of hatred itself), but trust will play an integral role.

    Kyle, we hung out, had a great time, smoked some weed, and all had fun at an awesome rock concert. Yet because I had posted about a friend making Aliyah (and while I don't remember the details or context of that discussion, I'm assuming all I had posted was that I didn't wish that harm would befall him), it meant that I needed to prove myself just to elevate my status to reasonable over time. If this happens over a discussion on a Pearl Jam forum between two people who don't consider themselves religious (and have hung out and shot the shit together) - what's going to happen when Israelis and Palestinians are free to roam between each others' territories?

    This is where social media can have tremendous impact: there's ripe opportunity for Israelis and Palestinians to talk privately, learn that they are in fact all human beings, and that they both love life and hate death. This may be an idealist notion, but I think this is necessary for an everlasting and, as you said, just Peace. And this is where absurd nationalist/Zionist propaganda needs to cease, as well as what ever equivalents exist within Palestinian regions. "Make love, not war" may seem like a bullshit hippie expression, but the truth is, a government must defend its people. All of us in the world must do our part, as the notion that "without Israel's stronghold over Gaza and the West Bank, Israel will not be safe" is a prevalent viewpoint amongst Israelis, and this is one that we, Citizens of Earth, can help deal with. If the Israeli government wants to claim that Israel's presence in Palestinian regions is for the safety of its people, we should do our part to strip them of that one *quasi-legitimate* reason for being there. This is a way we can change things. This is a way we ARE changing things. And, guess what, if Israelis and Palestinians want to hold hands everywhere across the world and Israel's government then says "I forbid it, we won't lower our walls" - just TRY and keep the world silent. Peace speaks louder than weapons.

    You're right, there will need to be trust, a lot of turning the other cheek, and cooler heads prevailing on both sides.

    As for the dynamic between us that I brought up publicly (and maybe shouldnt have) - ya man, I thought you were a great guy, enjoyed your company and hope to meet you again someday. The Aliyah comment was, if I remember correctly, even more casual than your guess: someone posted about a family member moving, and you remarked about it always being a shock when someone you know actually does it. But you have to keep in mind: we never touched on politics or religion at all when we met. How many times has someone you thought you knew ended up dropping your jaw when they started talking religion or politics? It's one thing to have differing opinions, approaches, and solutions, and still respect one another. But when someone's views are extreme, it is a bit more difficult. And it happens pretty often - esp with topics related to the Middle East and Islam. I will never forget watching the statue of saddam toppled in Iraq, while sitting in a bar with friends...and a guy id been an acquaintance with for years (a friend, but not a close one), says 'look at all those stupid pakis throwing shoes at it', followed by an islamophobic rant and a bunch of racial slurs...that was enough to change my opinion of a guy I'd hung out with many times..
    When you started posting in these threads, I had no idea if you would be a Sivan, or if your demeanour in person would translate to the logical thinking and reasonable politics you've displayed here. It sure as hell didn't with my friend who doesn't know the difference between Iraq and Pakistan. yes, maybe I could have given you more benefit of doubt based on the afternoon we spent together, and I see that's what you're getting at in saying we need to trust potential enemies when it comes to resolving the conflict. But that trust is built on words and actions that relate to the conflict, not just casual time talking pearl jam and buds. For a while, the only words or actions I had to go by in relation to the occupation and your religious beliefs, was a reference to aliyah...and because immigration to Israel, the right of return, freedom of movement etc are core issues to the conflict, it made me more curious about your views. I chose to observe instead of engaging you directly, in order to avoid a potentially awkward conversation (maybe a mistake). I never felt that you needed to 'prove yourself'.....but at the same time, I feel pretty strongly about the occupation, and if your views had been as extreme as some, it could have pretty easily affected the impression I had of you from the day we spent together. If I was going on anti-semetic rants on the board, I'm sure you'd reconsider your opinion of me as well...I hope you understand what I'm saying.
  • eldarion75eldarion75 Posts: 2,488
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/jews-stage-massive-anti-war-protests-tel-aviv-new-york-elsewhere.html

    Jews Stage Massive Anti-War Protests In Tel Aviv, New York and Elsewhere
    Posted on July 26, 2014 by WashingtonsBlog
    Opposing Israeli Policy Does Not Make One a “Self-Hating Jew”

    A huge anti-war protest is being held tonight by Jews in Tel Aviv:
    image
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,151

    benjs said:


    By the way, and I think this is an important distinction - a lot of this discussion has to do with trust. I know what you wrote wasn't intentional or delivered with malice, but your statement at the end about my having proven myself reasonable brings up an important notion: many people, very soon, are going to have to inherently trust the people they formerly called their enemies. It's going to be ages (probably generations) until a TRUE peace sweeps the area (ie. the abolishment of hatred itself), but trust will play an integral role.

    Kyle, we hung out, had a great time, smoked some weed, and all had fun at an awesome rock concert. Yet because I had posted about a friend making Aliyah (and while I don't remember the details or context of that discussion, I'm assuming all I had posted was that I didn't wish that harm would befall him), it meant that I needed to prove myself just to elevate my status to reasonable over time. If this happens over a discussion on a Pearl Jam forum between two people who don't consider themselves religious (and have hung out and shot the shit together) - what's going to happen when Israelis and Palestinians are free to roam between each others' territories?

    This is where social media can have tremendous impact: there's ripe opportunity for Israelis and Palestinians to talk privately, learn that they are in fact all human beings, and that they both love life and hate death. This may be an idealist notion, but I think this is necessary for an everlasting and, as you said, just Peace. And this is where absurd nationalist/Zionist propaganda needs to cease, as well as what ever equivalents exist within Palestinian regions. "Make love, not war" may seem like a bullshit hippie expression, but the truth is, a government must defend its people. All of us in the world must do our part, as the notion that "without Israel's stronghold over Gaza and the West Bank, Israel will not be safe" is a prevalent viewpoint amongst Israelis, and this is one that we, Citizens of Earth, can help deal with. If the Israeli government wants to claim that Israel's presence in Palestinian regions is for the safety of its people, we should do our part to strip them of that one *quasi-legitimate* reason for being there. This is a way we can change things. This is a way we ARE changing things. And, guess what, if Israelis and Palestinians want to hold hands everywhere across the world and Israel's government then says "I forbid it, we won't lower our walls" - just TRY and keep the world silent. Peace speaks louder than weapons.

    You're right, there will need to be trust, a lot of turning the other cheek, and cooler heads prevailing on both sides.

    As for the dynamic between us that I brought up publicly (and maybe shouldnt have) - ya man, I thought you were a great guy, enjoyed your company and hope to meet you again someday. The Aliyah comment was, if I remember correctly, even more casual than your guess: someone posted about a family member moving, and you remarked about it always being a shock when someone you know actually does it. But you have to keep in mind: we never touched on politics or religion at all when we met. How many times has someone you thought you knew ended up dropping your jaw when they started talking religion or politics? It's one thing to have differing opinions, approaches, and solutions, and still respect one another. But when someone's views are extreme, it is a bit more difficult. And it happens pretty often - esp with topics related to the Middle East and Islam. I will never forget watching the statue of saddam toppled in Iraq, while sitting in a bar with friends...and a guy id been an acquaintance with for years (a friend, but not a close one), says 'look at all those stupid pakis throwing shoes at it', followed by an islamophobic rant and a bunch of racial slurs...that was enough to change my opinion of a guy I'd hung out with many times..
    When you started posting in these threads, I had no idea if you would be a Sivan, or if your demeanour in person would translate to the logical thinking and reasonable politics you've displayed here. It sure as hell didn't with my friend who doesn't know the difference between Iraq and Pakistan. yes, maybe I could have given you more benefit of doubt based on the afternoon we spent together, and I see that's what you're getting at in saying we need to trust potential enemies when it comes to resolving the conflict. But that trust is built on words and actions that relate to the conflict, not just casual time talking pearl jam and buds. For a while, the only words or actions I had to go by in relation to the occupation and your religious beliefs, was a reference to aliyah...and because immigration to Israel, the right of return, freedom of movement etc are core issues to the conflict, it made me more curious about your views. I chose to observe instead of engaging you directly, in order to avoid a potentially awkward conversation (maybe a mistake). I never felt that you needed to 'prove yourself'.....but at the same time, I feel pretty strongly about the occupation, and if your views had been as extreme as some, it could have pretty easily affected the impression I had of you from the day we spent together. If I was going on anti-semetic rants on the board, I'm sure you'd reconsider your opinion of me as well...I hope you understand what I'm saying.
    That's very true about the political and religious discussions, and you're right, it was pretty naive to suggest that we 'knew each other' because we hung out this one time. You're also dead-on about trust being based on words and actions, and my sincerest apologies if what I wrote felt like an attack on you or anything you said - reading it over, I can see how it could have, which I didn't intend for one bit.

    What I intended was more to show how quickly the context of who (demographically) a person is can sway how you value or trust their voice. For example, I can't speak for the Israelis here who, with no hidden agendas, empathize with those being brutally affected in Gaza, but I suspect that it would be much harder for one of them to convince a Palestinian that they are disturbed and horrified by what is taking place, than for me to. They might hate it every much as me, yet that development of trust would take longer. Especially when the voices of the Sivans drown out the rational ones... This is why I am posting here when I used to observe: it falls on those of us who have formerly been silent to even the odds, and make sure voices of reason are louder than those of logical fallacies and propaganda, regardless of where the propaganda is from.

    Thanks for clarifying this all for me dude, these conversations are not insignificant.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,151
    Also, Drowned Out - I personally have nothing to hide, you're welcome to post what ever you'd like :)
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,572
    JC29856 said:

    CIVILIAN SCOREBOARD
    Israel 1088 Points (1036 dead, 75% civilians = 777, children are worth 2 points, based on Israel's 40% accuracy rate, 311 are children)
    Hamas 3 Points (2 civilians and a Thai worker)

    who's winning ?
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,151
    edited July 2014

    JC29856 said:

    CIVILIAN SCOREBOARD
    Israel 1088 Points (1036 dead, 75% civilians = 777, children are worth 2 points, based on Israel's 40% accuracy rate, 311 are children)
    Hamas 3 Points (2 civilians and a Thai worker)

    who's winning ?
    When there's even one preventable death, regardless of what border it's within, no one's winning.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,572
    benjs said:

    JC29856 said:

    CIVILIAN SCOREBOARD
    Israel 1088 Points (1036 dead, 75% civilians = 777, children are worth 2 points, based on Israel's 40% accuracy rate, 311 are children)
    Hamas 3 Points (2 civilians and a Thai worker)

    who's winning ?
    When there's even one preventable death, regardless of what border it's within, no one's winning.
    That's why asked i find those stats to be sickening and to post them i'm not sure what was the purpose of it , i agree with you .....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/jews-stage-massive-anti-war-protests-tel-aviv-new-york-elsewhere.html

    Jews Stage Massive Anti-War Protests In Tel Aviv, New York and Elsewhere
    Posted on July 26, 2014 by WashingtonsBlog
    Opposing Israeli Policy Does Not Make One a “Self-Hating Jew”

    A huge anti-war protest is being held tonight by Jews in Tel Aviv:
    image

    if hamas was the monsters the american press is making them out to be, then this will be a target of theirs.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,572

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/jews-stage-massive-anti-war-protests-tel-aviv-new-york-elsewhere.html

    Jews Stage Massive Anti-War Protests In Tel Aviv, New York and Elsewhere
    Posted on July 26, 2014 by WashingtonsBlog
    Opposing Israeli Policy Does Not Make One a “Self-Hating Jew”

    A huge anti-war protest is being held tonight by Jews in Tel Aviv:
    image

    if hamas was the monsters the american press is making them out to be, then this will be a target of theirs.
    It has to start with the aggressor that's who should say enough of the killing i hope this starts a peace movement over there ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • eldarion75eldarion75 Posts: 2,488
    edited July 2014
    Breaking the American Jewish silence over the Gaza conflict
    Israel’s moral choices in the conflict are harrowing but non-negotiable: The right to defense - but not to vengeance, the moral responsibility to protect Israel’s citizens - and Gaza’s civilians, and to grieve for them all.
    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.607643

    image
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,615

    Breaking the American Jewish silence over the Gaza conflict
    Israel’s moral choices in the conflict are harrowing but non-negotiable: The right to defense - but not to vengeance, the moral responsibility to protect Israel’s citizens - and Gaza’s civilians, and to grieve for them all.
    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.607643

    image

    Can you paste the rest of he article? Have to have a subscription to read beyond the first paragraph.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • eldarion75eldarion75 Posts: 2,488
    edited July 2014
    i cant either...the more important part was this is a pic from pro israelis dancing in support of israeli terror, in times square NYC
    Post edited by eldarion75 on
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    i cant either...the more important part was this is a pic from pro israelis dancing in support of israeli terror, in times square NYC

    Look at their faces. Compare the 2 peoples. One side is all dancing around and partying while the others have looks of sorrow and complete sadness. Ashame, such a shame.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303

    Breaking the American Jewish silence over the Gaza conflict
    Israel’s moral choices in the conflict are harrowing but non-negotiable: The right to defense - but not to vengeance, the moral responsibility to protect Israel’s citizens - and Gaza’s civilians, and to grieve for them all.
    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.607643

    image

    i see people who support war crimes when i look at this picture.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    by the way, i tried to post the full text as well. i am not subscribing just to do that.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014


    image

    i see people who support war crimes when i look at this picture.

    Notice that placard that states that 'Hamas uses humans and children as shields'? Firstly, are children not human? Secondly, they've still yet to produce any evidence at all that Hamas is guilty of using civilians as human shields. On the other hand, Israel has been found guilty on multiple occasions of using Palestinian civilians as human shields -
    Amnesty: Israel Used Children as Human Shields in Gaza: Amnesty accused Israeli forces of using children as human shields and conducting wanton attacks on civilians.: http://www.alternet.org/story/141078/amnesty:_israel_used_children_as_human_shields_in_gaza

    Oh, and that stupid person can't even spell 'shields' correctly.

    Post edited by Kat on
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/infographic-contrasting-new-york-after-911-and-gaza

    As the number of Palestinians killed in Gaza escalated – today reaching 1,088 – the United States was the only country to vote against a UN Human Rights Council resolution calling for an investigation into Israel’s invasion.

    This graphic, “The Five Stages of Grief,” reflects on the shared experiences of grief of Americans and Palestinians in Gaza, while contrasting the stages of healing and recovery.

    The people of New York City mourned and memorialized their losses after the 11 September 2001 attacks, but their counterparts in Gaza are not allowed to recover.

    They have had no respite either from Israel’s repeated military assaults, or from its ongoing siege on the territory.

    Palestinians in Gaza are demanding a ceasefire that respects their basic humanitarian rights.

    The 1.8 million people who live there, especially the 40 percent who are 14 years of age or younger, need more than just a ceasefire. They need to be allowed to heal.

    image

  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    image
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    What Do Gazans Endure? A Palestinian Student Who Lost 2 Brothers, 4 Cousins Tells His Story

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7EYS4f4KKE
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Lol, this is as some would call, SILLY:

    http://news.antiwar.com/2014/07/28/citing-holocaust-israel-demands-strict-regulation-of-antiwar-protests-in-europe/#.U9c4RlaqO0I.twitter

    Citing Holocaust, Israel Demands ‘Strict Regulation’ of Antiwar Protests in Europe
    Push for EU Special Commissioner to Regulate Protests
    by Jason Ditz, July 28, 2014
    Print This | Share This
    A new Holocaust is imminent, if one is to believe Israeli MPs, who spent the afternoon berating European officials about the growing antiwar protests across their countries, centered on criticizing the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip.

    Officials blamed “one-sided” media reports on the large number of dead civilians in Israel’s attack, and demanded the European Union impose “strict regulations on the format and content” of antiwar demonstrations going forward.

    Some of the EU officials present, notably Danish officials, insisted that they had a right to free expression that would be abridged by the proposed “regulations,” but Israeli officials were having none of it, insisting that criticism of Israel was anti-Semitism in and of itself, and that “there is a difference between free speech and incendiary speech.”

    The Israeli proposal would see the creation of a Special Commissioner in the European Union that would empowered to “monitor” antiwar protesters and restrict them from portraying Israel an “an aggressor” during its assorted invasions of Palestinian territory.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Great article posted by a Jewish blogger:

  • KatKat Posts: 4,872
    edited July 2014
    Bitch, cunt, ???? This thread has gone round the bend. Take a break from this topic please. Will review it for any necessary action later today.

    Posts have been edited. Please be careful in the discussion of this very difficult topic. Thank you.
    Post edited by Kat on
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Anybody here near Oakland? image
This discussion has been closed.