Gilad Shalit's father: I would fight Israel if I were Palestinian Row erupts after comments by Israeli election hopeful Noam Shalit, whose son was held in captivity by Hamas for five years
The Guardian, Thursday 15 March 2012
The father of an Israeli soldier held in captivity for more than five years by Hamas has said he would fight Israeli soldiers if he were a Palestinian [see footnote].
Noam Shalit, who announced earlier this year that he would be standing for the opposition Labour party in the next Israeli elections, has provoked outrage among the Israeli right with the comments. His son, Gilad, was released in a prisoner swap in October 2011.
Shalit added that the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers by Hamas militants was comparable to the techniques used by Israeli paramilitary fighters the Haganah against the British, arguing "we also kidnapped British soldiers when we were fighting for our freedom".
...The former engineer eventually summarised his key campaign issues as "mutual responsibility. And not leaving soldiers behind or any Israeli who is in any trouble." He also said he would be prepared to negotiate with Hamas if he were an MP, something the Israeli government, along with Britain and the US, refuses to do.
"I am in favour of speaking to anyone who wants to talk to us," he said. When asked whether he would negotiate with a Hamas government headed by his son's kidnapper, he maintained: "If they change their ways and are willing to recognise Israel as a Jewish state, yes, I would shake his hand." .......
Gilad Shalit's father: I would fight Israel if I were Palestinian Row erupts after comments by Israeli election hopeful Noam Shalit, whose son was held in captivity by Hamas for five years
The Guardian, Thursday 15 March 2012
The father of an Israeli soldier held in captivity for more than five years by Hamas has said he would fight Israeli soldiers if he were a Palestinian [see footnote].
Noam Shalit, who announced earlier this year that he would be standing for the opposition Labour party in the next Israeli elections, has provoked outrage among the Israeli right with the comments. His son, Gilad, was released in a prisoner swap in October 2011.
Shalit added that the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers by Hamas militants was comparable to the techniques used by Israeli paramilitary fighters the Haganah against the British, arguing "we also kidnapped British soldiers when we were fighting for our freedom".
...The former engineer eventually summarised his key campaign issues as "mutual responsibility. And not leaving soldiers behind or any Israeli who is in any trouble." He also said he would be prepared to negotiate with Hamas if he were an MP, something the Israeli government, along with Britain and the US, refuses to do.
"I am in favour of speaking to anyone who wants to talk to us," he said. When asked whether he would negotiate with a Hamas government headed by his son's kidnapper, he maintained: "If they change their ways and are willing to recognise Israel as a Jewish state, yes, I would shake his hand." .......
Israel does not want you to talk about the children it kills in Gaza. And neither does your government.
Western politicians and media have a long history of ignoring the horrific conditions under which Palestinians live under Israeli Occupation while paying universal homage to Israel as the “only democracy in the Middle East.”
This mythology has now exploded. As Paul Mason has pointed out, since Israel began its July 8th attack on Gaza, there has been a “massive change in the balance of power between social media and the old hierarchical media channels we used to rely on to understand wars.”
For the first time, the world has access to real-time images, voices and narratives of the people of Gaza themselves. Deepa Kumar correctly surmised that this has led to a “crumbling” of Israel’s propaganda war, and even Israel stalwarts like the New York Times have been forced to report the catastrophic effects on Palestinians produced by Israel’s massacre.
Even on the military front, questions are being asked about the assumed invincibility of Israel’s might. Hamas has proven again that it is not a pushover and is prepared to withstand Israel’s far advanced weaponry and manpower.
Thus, despite the killing and destruction Israel has inflicted in Gaza, the Israeli state is not emerging as the victorious ‘white knight’ of democracy whose image for many was once invincible.
The question arises, then: what is a state to do in the face of a widening gap between its previous status as an icon of ‘democratic exceptionalism’, and its new role as global bully? What, in short, to do when facing a real crisis of ‘legitimation’?
Fortunately, Israel has friends in high places.
As the death toll rises in Gaza, and anger mounts around the world, Israel and its allies have adopted a new tactic.
They have largely abandoned attempts to recover Israel’s democratic legitimacy. They have resorted instead to the outright criminalization of all dissent. And even to kill for it.
—In the West Bank, Israel shot dead more than ten protesters against the massacre in neighboring Gaza. At a July 12 anti-war rally in Israel, police stood by as fascist thugs attacked non-violent protesters. Palestinian Member of the Israeli Knesset, Haneen Zoabi, pictured above, has been banned from all parliamentary activity, except for voting, for six months. Netanyahu has called for all pro-Palestine protests to be banned across Europe.
—France has criminalized pro-Palestinian protests. 1,500 French riot police were deployed against a pro-Palestine protest in Paris on July 26th.
—In Calcutta, India, Special Branch forces (India’s equivalent of the FBI) demanded the cell phone number of Kunal Chattopadhyay, a professor, at a public meeting in support of BDS. In New Delhi, pro-Palestine protestors at the Israeli Embassy were viciously attacked by local police.
—In London, Ontario, Canada, protesters wanting to talk to the Tory MP Susan Truppe, were removed by police.
—In Manchester, England, a pro-Palestine protester was hurled to the ground by metropolitan police during an apparent arrest.
—In New York, long-time Israel critic Norman Finkelstein was arrested for peaceful disobedience by NYPD, perpetrators of the notorious Stop and Frisk racial profiling program and spying programs against Muslims.
—In Chicago, the authors were part of a protest during which Chicago police put snipers on rooftops. Kirsten, a member of Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voice for Peace, was injured by police at an action on July 17th. She told us she “was not participating in… civil disobedience” but was “live-tweeting and photographing the arrest of my partner, when an office pushed me from the curb, causing me to roll and badly injure my ankle.”
.....Even if we leave aside Israel, which has never been a democratic society for anyone of non-Jewish descent, why has the butchering of democratic expression in other parts of the world become so commonplace?
Because Israel’s crisis of legitimacy is not a crisis for Israel alone, but for the entire edifice of Empire, whose architects live in places like Washington, London and Paris.
There is much at stake for our world leaders if the global protests for Palestine continue to grow. What if they spark a third Intifada in Palestine? What if they spark a new Arab Spring—after all, if you start to withstand truncheons for opposing Benjamin Netanyahu, why not Abdel el-Sisi or Bashar al-Assad? What if the cry of “Free Free Palestine” is echoed in New Delhi as “Free Free Kashmir”? or the voices demanding to pull down the Apartheid Wall in Palestine are joined by the voices wanting to pull down the border fence between US and Mexico? What if gaining confidence by the protests against Boeing and Caterpillar’s role in funding Israel, workers at these companies start demanding their rightful wages and pension?
Palestine today lies at the heart of humanity’s universal sense of justice. This is why leaders across the world want to stamp out all talk of Palestine.
And this is precisely why we cannot put down our Free Palestine placards. Instead, we should start taking them everywhere—in to our communities, workplaces and schools.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Only rape can deter Hamas? Only rape can deter Hamas from what? From resisting the illegal occupation? From resisting Israel's latest slaughter of Palestinian civilians? What can rape deter Hamas from doing? Will it deter them from attacking IDF soldiers? Hamas issued a statement just the other day - I'll look for it in a minute - stating that they've had opportunities to attack and kill Israeli settlers over the past couple of weeks, but they haven't done so. They've attacked Israeli soldiers instead. Meanwhile the cowards in the IDF continue deliberately targeting civilians. Fucking cowards.
And this scumbag calls for the rape of Palestinian women in order to 'deter Hamas'.
Dr. Mordechai Kedar, a right-wing Israeli professor at the Bar-Ilan University, has suggested that the only way to stop Palestinians from carrying out attacks on Israeli targets is to rape their mothers and sisters.
Speaking to a Hebrew-language radio show, Haaretz reported that the professor said, “the only thing that deters them is if they know that their sister or their mother will be raped in the event that they are caught.”
“The only thing that deters a suicide bomber is the knowledge that if he pulls the trigger or blows himself up, his sister will be raped,” he added. “That’s the only thing that will bring him back home, in order to preserve his sister’s honor.”
Although the Bar-Ilan University released a statement to clarify that Professor Kedar was not advocating using rape as a tactic of war, feminist activists in Israel in a letter warned that the professor's words could incite “Israel Defense Forces soldiers and Israeli civilians to commit rape, and endanger both Israeli and Palestinian women.”
“Kedar’s words echo expressions that treat rape as a remedial practice, although it is a war crime,” the letter to Bar-Ilan University president Rabbi Prof. Daniel Hershkowitz noted.
A 72-hour humanitarian truce began in the Gaza Strip at 08:00am local time (05:00GMT) on Friday at a U.N. request to help civilians stock up on food.
The truce comes following 25 days of relentless Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip, which killed at least 1458 Palestinians – mostly civilians – and injured more than 8000 others.
Only rape can deter Hamas? Only rape can deter Hamas from what? From resisting the illegal occupation? From resisting Israel's latest slaughter of Palestinian civilians? What can rape deter Hamas from doing? Will it deter them from attacking IDF soldiers? Hamas issued a statement just the other day - I'll look for it in a minute - stating that they've had opportunities to attack and kill Israeli settlers over the past couple of weeks, but they haven't done so. They've attacked Israeli soldiers instead. Meanwhile the cowards in the IDF continue deliberately targeting civilians. Fucking cowards.
And this scumbag calls for the rape of Palestinian women in order to 'deter Hamas'.
Dr. Mordechai Kedar, a right-wing Israeli professor at the Bar-Ilan University, has suggested that the only way to stop Palestinians from carrying out attacks on Israeli targets is to rape their mothers and sisters.
Speaking to a Hebrew-language radio show, Haaretz reported that the professor said, “the only thing that deters them is if they know that their sister or their mother will be raped in the event that they are caught.”
“The only thing that deters a suicide bomber is the knowledge that if he pulls the trigger or blows himself up, his sister will be raped,” he added. “That’s the only thing that will bring him back home, in order to preserve his sister’s honor.”
Although the Bar-Ilan University released a statement to clarify that Professor Kedar was not advocating using rape as a tactic of war, feminist activists in Israel in a letter warned that the professor's words could incite “Israel Defense Forces soldiers and Israeli civilians to commit rape, and endanger both Israeli and Palestinian women.”
“Kedar’s words echo expressions that treat rape as a remedial practice, although it is a war crime,” the letter to Bar-Ilan University president Rabbi Prof. Daniel Hershkowitz noted.
A 72-hour humanitarian truce began in the Gaza Strip at 08:00am local time (05:00GMT) on Friday at a U.N. request to help civilians stock up on food.
The truce comes following 25 days of relentless Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip, which killed at least 1458 Palestinians – mostly civilians – and injured more than 8000 others.
That ambulance sure looked like a legitimate target to me.
Israel is running out of time. World public opinion is swaying against them.
Kind of looked like a double hit right? Like one bomb went off and everybody goes to help out and then a missile slams into the crowd.
I thought only "terrorists" do that?
But yeah, I never thought of that the first time I looked at that video, good catch. Pretty horrible. Winning hearts and minds one missile at a time.
That video posted in another thread showed how great Israel war planes are at seeing civilians on the ground and calling off attacks where they were present, saving lives. What happened here? How many ambulances have to be hit before people realize what is really happening?
That ambulance sure looked like a legitimate target to me.
Israel is running out of time. World public opinion is swaying against them.
Kind of looked like a double hit right? Like one bomb went off and everybody goes to help out and then a missile slams into the crowd.
I thought only "terrorists" do that?
But yeah, I never thought of that the first time I looked at that video, good catch. Pretty horrible. Winning hearts and minds one missile at a time.
That video posted in another thread showed how great Israel war planes are at seeing civilians on the ground and calling off attacks where they were present, saving lives. What happened here? How many ambulances have to be hit before people realize what is really happening?
Massive attack has donated money for ambulances in gaza. How long before Israel labels massive attack terrorists and adds them to their "hit" list?
To be fair, I can't find this anywhere on Google.. Probably fake. Of course, again, there are credible and validated sources that mention atrocities daily.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
i just want to publicly thank kat for allowing this thread to continue.
i know we are all fired up about this. i am just as guilty of this as anybody else, but let's all try to think about our language a bit before we post. i know that going forward i am going to try to be more cognizant of it.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i just want to publicly thank kat for allowing this thread to continue.
i know we are all fired up about this. i am just as guilty of this as anybody else, but let's all try to think about our language a bit before we post. i know that going forward i am going to try to be more cognizant of it.
How do you mean, gimme? If we call each other names we are crossing a line but if we say "this latest bombing during cease fire is fucked up" I'm assuming that's ok. Yes/No?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/15/gilad-shalit-father-kidnap-israel?CMP=twt_gu
Gilad Shalit's father: I would fight Israel if I were Palestinian
Row erupts after comments by Israeli election hopeful Noam Shalit, whose son was held in captivity by Hamas for five years
The Guardian, Thursday 15 March 2012
The father of an Israeli soldier held in captivity for more than five years by Hamas has said he would fight Israeli soldiers if he were a Palestinian [see footnote].
Noam Shalit, who announced earlier this year that he would be standing for the opposition Labour party in the next Israeli elections, has provoked outrage among the Israeli right with the comments. His son, Gilad, was released in a prisoner swap in October 2011.
Shalit added that the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers by Hamas militants was comparable to the techniques used by Israeli paramilitary fighters the Haganah against the British, arguing "we also kidnapped British soldiers when we were fighting for our freedom".
...The former engineer eventually summarised his key campaign issues as "mutual responsibility. And not leaving soldiers behind or any Israeli who is in any trouble." He also said he would be prepared to negotiate with Hamas if he were an MP, something the Israeli government, along with Britain and the US, refuses to do.
"I am in favour of speaking to anyone who wants to talk to us," he said. When asked whether he would negotiate with a Hamas government headed by his son's kidnapper, he maintained: "If they change their ways and are willing to recognise Israel as a Jewish state, yes, I would shake his hand."
.......
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/gazafiying-dissent.html
Gazafying Dissent
July 31.07.2014
Israel does not want you to talk about the children it kills in Gaza. And neither does your government.
Western politicians and media have a long history of ignoring the horrific conditions under which Palestinians live under Israeli Occupation while paying universal homage to Israel as the “only democracy in the Middle East.”
This mythology has now exploded. As Paul Mason has pointed out, since Israel began its July 8th attack on Gaza, there has been a “massive change in the balance of power between social media and the old hierarchical media channels we used to rely on to understand wars.”
For the first time, the world has access to real-time images, voices and narratives of the people of Gaza themselves. Deepa Kumar correctly surmised that this has led to a “crumbling” of Israel’s propaganda war, and even Israel stalwarts like the New York Times have been forced to report the catastrophic effects on Palestinians produced by Israel’s massacre.
Even on the military front, questions are being asked about the assumed invincibility of Israel’s might. Hamas has proven again that it is not a pushover and is prepared to withstand Israel’s far advanced weaponry and manpower.
Thus, despite the killing and destruction Israel has inflicted in Gaza, the Israeli state is not emerging as the victorious ‘white knight’ of democracy whose image for many was once invincible.
The question arises, then: what is a state to do in the face of a widening gap between its previous status as an icon of ‘democratic exceptionalism’, and its new role as global bully? What, in short, to do when facing a real crisis of ‘legitimation’?
Fortunately, Israel has friends in high places.
As the death toll rises in Gaza, and anger mounts around the world, Israel and its allies have adopted a new tactic.
They have largely abandoned attempts to recover Israel’s democratic legitimacy. They have resorted instead to the outright criminalization of all dissent. And even to kill for it.
—In the West Bank, Israel shot dead more than ten protesters against the massacre in neighboring Gaza. At a July 12 anti-war rally in Israel, police stood by as fascist thugs attacked non-violent protesters. Palestinian Member of the Israeli Knesset, Haneen Zoabi, pictured above, has been banned from all parliamentary activity, except for voting, for six months. Netanyahu has called for all pro-Palestine protests to be banned across Europe.
—France has criminalized pro-Palestinian protests. 1,500 French riot police were deployed against a pro-Palestine protest in Paris on July 26th.
—In Calcutta, India, Special Branch forces (India’s equivalent of the FBI) demanded the cell phone number of Kunal Chattopadhyay, a professor, at a public meeting in support of BDS. In New Delhi, pro-Palestine protestors at the Israeli Embassy were viciously attacked by local police.
—In London, Ontario, Canada, protesters wanting to talk to the Tory MP Susan Truppe, were removed by police.
—In Manchester, England, a pro-Palestine protester was hurled to the ground by metropolitan police during an apparent arrest.
—In New York, long-time Israel critic Norman Finkelstein was arrested for peaceful disobedience by NYPD, perpetrators of the notorious Stop and Frisk racial profiling program and spying programs against Muslims.
—In Chicago, the authors were part of a protest during which Chicago police put snipers on rooftops. Kirsten, a member of Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voice for Peace, was injured by police at an action on July 17th. She told us she “was not participating in… civil disobedience” but was “live-tweeting and photographing the arrest of my partner, when an office pushed me from the curb, causing me to roll and badly injure my ankle.”
.....Even if we leave aside Israel, which has never been a democratic society for anyone of non-Jewish descent, why has the butchering of democratic expression in other parts of the world become so commonplace?
Because Israel’s crisis of legitimacy is not a crisis for Israel alone, but for the entire edifice of Empire, whose architects live in places like Washington, London and Paris.
There is much at stake for our world leaders if the global protests for Palestine continue to grow. What if they spark a third Intifada in Palestine? What if they spark a new Arab Spring—after all, if you start to withstand truncheons for opposing Benjamin Netanyahu, why not Abdel el-Sisi or Bashar al-Assad? What if the cry of “Free Free Palestine” is echoed in New Delhi as “Free Free Kashmir”? or the voices demanding to pull down the Apartheid Wall in Palestine are joined by the voices wanting to pull down the border fence between US and Mexico? What if gaining confidence by the protests against Boeing and Caterpillar’s role in funding Israel, workers at these companies start demanding their rightful wages and pension?
Palestine today lies at the heart of humanity’s universal sense of justice. This is why leaders across the world want to stamp out all talk of Palestine.
And this is precisely why we cannot put down our Free Palestine placards. Instead, we should start taking them everywhere—in to our communities, workplaces and schools.
https://m.facebook.com/events/670457703028581/
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Motive???
http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/11451-sweden-refuses-israeli-presidents-plane-entry-into-its-airspace
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/scarborough-im-a-big-israel-supporter-but-this-offensive-is-asinine/
I'm with that guy though "asinine" is putting it mildly.
Meanwhile the cowards in the IDF continue deliberately targeting civilians. Fucking cowards.
And this scumbag calls for the rape of Palestinian women in order to 'deter Hamas'.
http://www.worldbulletin.net/haberler/141713/israeli-professor-says-only-rape-can-deter-hamas?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Israeli professor says only rape can deter Hamas
Dr. Mordechai Kedar, a right-wing Israeli professor at the Bar-Ilan University, has suggested that the only way to stop Palestinians from carrying out attacks on Israeli targets is to rape their mothers and sisters.
Speaking to a Hebrew-language radio show, Haaretz reported that the professor said, “the only thing that deters them is if they know that their sister or their mother will be raped in the event that they are caught.”
“The only thing that deters a suicide bomber is the knowledge that if he pulls the trigger or blows himself up, his sister will be raped,” he added. “That’s the only thing that will bring him back home, in order to preserve his sister’s honor.”
Although the Bar-Ilan University released a statement to clarify that Professor Kedar was not advocating using rape as a tactic of war, feminist activists in Israel in a letter warned that the professor's words could incite “Israel Defense Forces soldiers and Israeli civilians to commit rape, and endanger both Israeli and Palestinian women.”
“Kedar’s words echo expressions that treat rape as a remedial practice, although it is a war crime,” the letter to Bar-Ilan University president Rabbi Prof. Daniel Hershkowitz noted.
A 72-hour humanitarian truce began in the Gaza Strip at 08:00am local time (05:00GMT) on Friday at a U.N. request to help civilians stock up on food.
The truce comes following 25 days of relentless Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip, which killed at least 1458 Palestinians – mostly civilians – and injured more than 8000 others.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/senate-blocks-israel-aid-109617.html#.U9sgS6HPFb8.twitter
Gaza Ceasefire Over After Just Two Hours As 40 Palestinians Die In Israeli Shelling
at this point, israel need to be taken out. by any and all means possible
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5637593?utm_hp_ref=uk
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Israel is running out of time. World public opinion is swaying against them.
But yeah, I never thought of that the first time I looked at that video, good catch. Pretty horrible. Winning hearts and minds one missile at a time.
That video posted in another thread showed how great Israel war planes are at seeing civilians on the ground and calling off attacks where they were present, saving lives. What happened here? How many ambulances have to be hit before people realize what is really happening?
make them fuckin stop
US senate blocks aid to Israel...sadly, for totally the wrong reasons...
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
In all this talk of quanity of rockets fired no one is stating how many are getting through to hit anything.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
i know we are all fired up about this. i am just as guilty of this as anybody else, but let's all try to think about our language a bit before we post. i know that going forward i am going to try to be more cognizant of it.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."