This is the knife point of the military industrial complex, sell missle systems and weaponry to one side, sell the upgrade of that system to the other side, and on and on in an endless circle..war is good for business..
its an orwellian nightmare! Humanity will not meet the challenges of the next few centuries, we will fight over water when the oil is gone and the planet will shuck us like corn husks :(
its an orwellian nightmare! Humanity will not meet the challenges of the next few centuries, we will fight over water when the oil is gone and the planet will shuck us like corn husks :(
Just reading today, we're in the early stages of a mass extinction, and we're doing it to ourselves...so yeah...as bill hicks said, we're a disease with shoes.
watch this..you'll be in tears by the end,..Channel 4's jon snow Jon Snow - returning from Gaza - recounts the scene inside al-Shifa hospital, where doctors struggle to treat adults and children wounded by Israeli attacks. http://www.channel4.com/news/the-children-of-gaza-jon-snow-video
Eight hundred dead Palestinians. But Israel has impunity There’s something very odd about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/eight-hundred-dead-palestinians-but-israel-has-impunity-9629726.html Impunity is the word that comes to mind. Eight hundred dead Palestinians. Eight hundred. That’s infinitely more than twice the total dead of flight MH17 over Ukraine. And if you refer only to the “innocent” dead – ie no Hamas fighters, young sympathisers or corrupt Hamas officials, with whom the Israelis will, in due course, have to talk – then the women and children and elderly who have been slaughtered in Gaza are still well over the total number of MH17 victims. And there’s something very odd, isn’t there, about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls. In Gaza, we plead for a ceasefire but let them bury their dead in the sweltering slums of Gaza and cannot even open a humanitarian route for the wounded. For the passengers on MH17, we demand – immediately – proper burial and care for the relatives of the dead. We curse those who left bodies lying in the fields of eastern Ukraine – as many bodies have been lying, for a shorter time, perhaps, but under an equally oven-like sky, in Gaza.
Because – and this has been creeping up on me for years – we don’t care so much about the Palestinians, do we? We care neither about Israeli culpability, which is far greater because of the larger number of civilians the Israeli army have killed. Nor, for that matter, Hamas’s capability. Of course, God forbid that the figures should have been the other way round. If 800 Israelis had died and only 35 Palestinians, I think I know our reaction.
READ MORE: 18 MEMBERS OF ONE FAMILY KILLED IN GAZA AHEAD OF HUMANITARIAN 'PAUSE' ISRAEL IS ATTEMPTING TO DEAL RATIONALLY WITH AN ENEMY CRAZED WITH LUST FOR OUR DEATH ISRAEL HAS DISCOVERED THAT IT'S NO LONGER SO EASY TO GET AWAY WITH MURDER IN THE AGE OF SOCIAL MEDIA WHY I'M ON THE BRINK OF BURNING MY ISRAELI PASSPORT
We would call it – rightly – a slaughter, an atrocity, a crime for which the killers must be made accountable. Yes, Hamas should be made accountable, too. But why is it that the only criminals we are searching for today are the men who fired one – perhaps two – missiles at an airliner over Ukraine? If Israel’s dead equalled those of the Palestinians – and let me repeat, thank heavens this is not the case – I suspect that the Americans would be offering all military support to an Israel endangered by “Iranian-backed terrorists”. We would be demanding that Hamas hand over the monsters who fired rockets at Israel and who are, by the way, trying to hit aircraft at Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion airport. But we are not doing this. Because those who have died are mostly Palestinians.
More questions. What’s the limit for Palestinian deaths before we have a ceasefire? Eight hundred? Or 8,000? Could we have a scorecard? The exchange rate for dead? Or would we just wait until our gorge rises at the blood and say enough – even for Israel’s war, enough is enough. It’s not as if we have not been through all this before.
From the massacre of Arab villagers by Israel’s new army in 1948, as it is set down by Israeli historians, to the Sabra and Shatila massacre, when Lebanese Christian allies of Israel murdered up to 1,700 people in 1982 while Israeli troops watched; from the Qana massacre of Lebanese Arabs at the UN base – yes, the UN again – in 1996, to another, smaller terrible killing at Qana (again) 10 years later. And so to the mass killing of civilians in the 2008-9 Gaza war. And after Sabra and Shatila, there were inquiries, and after Qana there was an inquiry and after Gaza in 2008-9, there was an inquiry and don’t we remember the weight of it, somewhat lightened of course when Judge Goldstone did his best to disown it, when – according to my Israeli friends – he came under intense personal pressure.
In other words, we have been here before. The claim that only “terrorists” are to blame for those whom Hamas kills and only “terrorists” are to blame for those whom Israel kills (Hamas “terrorists”, of course). And the constant claim, repeated over and over and over, that Israel has the highest standards of any army in the world and would never hurt civilians. I recall here the 17,500 dead of Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon, most of whom were civilians. Have we forgotten all this?
And apart from impunity, the word stupidity comes to mind. I will forget here the corrupt Arabs and the killers of Isis and the wholesale mass murders of Iraq and Syria. Perhaps their indifference to “Palestine” is to be expected. They do not claim to represent our values. But what do we make of John Kerry, Obama’s Secretary of State, who told us last week that the “underlying issues” of the Israeli-Palestinian war need to be addressed? What on earth was he doing all last year when he claimed he was going to produce a Middle East peace in 12 months? Doesn’t he realise why the Palestinians are in Gaza?
The truth is that many hundreds of thousands of people around the world – I wish I could say millions – want an end to this impunity, an end to phrases such as “disproportionate casualties”. Disproportionate to what? Brave Israelis also feel this way. They write about it. Long live the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. Meanwhile, the Arab, Muslim world becomes wilder with anger. And we will pay the price.
on a seperate note, Russia gets internationally embargoed up the yazoo for that plane being taken down(it more than likely wasnt even them) yet israel can kill with impuinty in Gaza and nothing..not a whisper..
israel and it's apologists know that that is something that people do not want to be called, because it can ruin their life, ruin their career, get them on terror watch lists, etc. this is precisely why calling someone anti-semite is the go-to, conditioned, response in most cases.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
israel and it's apologists know that that is something that people do not want to be called, because it can ruin their life, ruin their career, get them on terror watch lists, etc. this is precisely why calling someone anti-semite is the go-to, conditioned, response in most cases.
The notion of anti-Semitism, first of all, has changed from its technical meaning.
Since a Semitic person is someone who speaks a Semitic language, this would not be limited to Israelis or Jews, and would in fact include much of the Middle East.
Hence, you would think that anti-Semitism would include the same groups, and not only Israelis or Jews. The pivot happened in Germany if my understanding is correct (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/27646/anti-Semitism). It is a complete abuse of a term that should not have been changed from its literal meaning in the first place, and yet it is still used. If Israelis feel that there are anti-Israeli sentiments going around, they ought to call it anti-Israeli sentiments and not hide behind semantics.
That being said, anti-Semitism is very clearly rampant in the world, as both Jews and Arabs alike are being vilified. How rational or justifiable the vilification is varies depending on what subset of Semites one is referring to, and who's being asked.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Ambulances, rescue teams, and families fanned out across the Gaza Strip to search for the injured and for loved ones, particularly in the eastern outskirts that have been subject to intense Israeli fire in recent days. Ministry of Health spokesman Ashraf al-Qidra said at 7:00 p.m. that 135 dead bodies had been pulled out of the rubble so far.
I was going to send this to benjs as a PM, but decided to post it here instead. I think Ben deserves props; young people like him are key to ending the bloodshed.
Ben! What's up brother? Thanks for your contributions to the Israel/Palestine threads. I remember you posting on the board a long time ago, about knowing people who had made Aliyah, and wondering where you stood on the conflict/occupation...in following your recent posts, it seems you have just recently taken it upon yourself to get more informed on the topic; most importantly, with an open mind. And for that you've had tensions with family and loved ones. I have had some intense discussions with my own family on this topic...I would describe my family as opposed to organized religion, but their beliefs are rooted in Christian upbringing, with a mainstream media moulded worldview. They have no vested interest, and only a narrow scope of knowledge on this topic, and it's still a tough conversation to have. I can only imagine what its like for you...it takes some balls to speak your mind and seek truth, and I commend you for doing so. Mandi mentioned a while back that you might be hitting the Denver show with her...I'm trying to make it down but not sure if I can swing it. When I first saw you posting in those threads, after your prior Aliyah comment, I was a bit concerned that it could get nasty, and it would be a bit awkward to see you in Denver...but I think you've proven yourself reasonable, with good intentions toward a just peace. Hope we're able to meet up in Denver and share a couple pops and a j like we did in Manhattan four (!!) years ago...only legally! Peace K
I was going to send this to benjs as a PM, but decided to post it here instead. I think Ben deserves props; young people like him are key to ending the bloodshed.
Ben! What's up brother? Thanks for your contributions to the Israel/Palestine threads. I remember you posting on the board a long time ago, about knowing people who had made Aliyah, and wondering where you stood on the conflict/occupation...in following your recent posts, it seems you have just recently taken it upon yourself to get more informed on the topic; most importantly, with an open mind. And for that you've had tensions with family and loved ones. I have had some intense discussions with my own family on this topic...I would describe my family as opposed to organized religion, but their beliefs are rooted in Christian upbringing, with a mainstream media moulded worldview. They have no vested interest, and only a narrow scope of knowledge on this topic, and it's still a tough conversation to have. I can only imagine what its like for you...it takes some balls to speak your mind and seek truth, and I commend you for doing so. Mandi mentioned a while back that you might be hitting the Denver show with her...I'm trying to make it down but not sure if I can swing it. When I first saw you posting in those threads, after your prior Aliyah comment, I was a bit concerned that it could get nasty, and it would be a bit awkward to see you in Denver...but I think you've proven yourself reasonable, with good intentions toward a just peace. Hope we're able to meet up in Denver and share a couple pops and a j like we did in Manhattan four (!!) years ago...only legally! Peace K
I would love to share a J with both of you. Shit maybe even a pork sandwich ey Ben )
I was going to send this to benjs as a PM, but decided to post it here instead. I think Ben deserves props; young people like him are key to ending the bloodshed.
Ben! What's up brother? Thanks for your contributions to the Israel/Palestine threads. I remember you posting on the board a long time ago, about knowing people who had made Aliyah, and wondering where you stood on the conflict/occupation...in following your recent posts, it seems you have just recently taken it upon yourself to get more informed on the topic; most importantly, with an open mind. And for that you've had tensions with family and loved ones. I have had some intense discussions with my own family on this topic...I would describe my family as opposed to organized religion, but their beliefs are rooted in Christian upbringing, with a mainstream media moulded worldview. They have no vested interest, and only a narrow scope of knowledge on this topic, and it's still a tough conversation to have. I can only imagine what its like for you...it takes some balls to speak your mind and seek truth, and I commend you for doing so. Mandi mentioned a while back that you might be hitting the Denver show with her...I'm trying to make it down but not sure if I can swing it. When I first saw you posting in those threads, after your prior Aliyah comment, I was a bit concerned that it could get nasty, and it would be a bit awkward to see you in Denver...but I think you've proven yourself reasonable, with good intentions toward a just peace. Hope we're able to meet up in Denver and share a couple pops and a j like we did in Manhattan four (!!) years ago...only legally! Peace K
Thanks for the recognition K! I think I've made my position very clear here: I am pro-Peace. I'm a logical person, and if you can present me with logic - I assure you, it means much more to me than anyone's opinion; even those I love very, very much. For the record, I am not in the minority. Sure, there are people who opt not to learn, and post pictures about the cupcakes they made for the IDF soldiers (that person is no longer my friend on Facebook, and to be honest, hardly was in the real world), but on the other hand, I have strongly Zionistic friends who are now getting into heated discussions (people ranging from their 20s to some even in their 60s) about Israel's actions, and many people are no longer tolerating an uninformed opinion. My own grandmother - an 87 year old bigot to astonishing proportions - is currently mortified with the current actions of the Israeli government, and it is a testament to her that she continues to push for debate with her 85 year old boyfriend - a Hungarian survivor of the Holocaust. I'm sure I sound like a broken record when I come on here and call for people to learn more, from multiple viewpoints, and come up with their own conclusions, but it's all you can do. The best education you can get on a volatile situation will inevitably be from reading the most that you possibly can. And every question I've posed here, I've received an incredibly reasonable answer to, typically with viable sources to back them up.
As for nastiness, every participant in this discussion has good cause to show skepticism (I certainly did at first when I started here), but my rule of thumb is to picture the face of a real human being on the other side of the screen. If you wouldn't say something to someone's face - don't say it here. Seems most (albeit not all) of us active in this discussion are feeling the same way, which is refreshing.
As for truly far less important things: yes, I'm hoping to make it to Denver, but that'll be contingent on a ticket! Hope you, badbrains, Mandi and I can get super baked and share a love for Peace and Pearl Jam together!
Ben
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Great post Ben...its not the time for name calling or hurling insults. The ideal would be to meet in the middle and talk about whats happenning. This has been good for that for the most part.
I was going to send this to benjs as a PM, but decided to post it here instead. I think Ben deserves props; young people like him are key to ending the bloodshed.
Ben! What's up brother? Thanks for your contributions to the Israel/Palestine threads. I remember you posting on the board a long time ago, about knowing people who had made Aliyah, and wondering where you stood on the conflict/occupation...in following your recent posts, it seems you have just recently taken it upon yourself to get more informed on the topic; most importantly, with an open mind. And for that you've had tensions with family and loved ones. I have had some intense discussions with my own family on this topic...I would describe my family as opposed to organized religion, but their beliefs are rooted in Christian upbringing, with a mainstream media moulded worldview. They have no vested interest, and only a narrow scope of knowledge on this topic, and it's still a tough conversation to have. I can only imagine what its like for you...it takes some balls to speak your mind and seek truth, and I commend you for doing so. Mandi mentioned a while back that you might be hitting the Denver show with her...I'm trying to make it down but not sure if I can swing it. When I first saw you posting in those threads, after your prior Aliyah comment, I was a bit concerned that it could get nasty, and it would be a bit awkward to see you in Denver...but I think you've proven yourself reasonable, with good intentions toward a just peace. Hope we're able to meet up in Denver and share a couple pops and a j like we did in Manhattan four (!!) years ago...only legally! Peace K
By the way, and I think this is an important distinction - a lot of this discussion has to do with trust. I know what you wrote wasn't intentional or delivered with malice, but your statement at the end about my having proven myself reasonable brings up an important notion: many people, very soon, are going to have to inherently trust the people they formerly called their enemies. It's going to be ages (probably generations) until a TRUE peace sweeps the area (ie. the abolishment of hatred itself), but trust will play an integral role.
Kyle, we hung out, had a great time, smoked some weed, and all had fun at an awesome rock concert. Yet because I had posted about a friend making Aliyah (and while I don't remember the details or context of that discussion, I'm assuming all I had posted was that I didn't wish that harm would befall him), it meant that I needed to prove myself just to elevate my status to reasonable over time. If this happens over a discussion on a Pearl Jam forum between two people who don't consider themselves religious (and have hung out and shot the shit together) - what's going to happen when Israelis and Palestinians are free to roam between each others' territories?
This is where social media can have tremendous impact: there's ripe opportunity for Israelis and Palestinians to talk privately, learn that they are in fact all human beings, and that they both love life and hate death. This may be an idealist notion, but I think this is necessary for an everlasting and, as you said, just Peace. And this is where absurd nationalist/Zionist propaganda needs to cease, as well as what ever equivalents exist within Palestinian regions. "Make love, not war" may seem like a bullshit hippie expression, but the truth is, a government must defend its people. All of us in the world must do our part, as the notion that "without Israel's stronghold over Gaza and the West Bank, Israel will not be safe" is a prevalent viewpoint amongst Israelis, and this is one that we, Citizens of Earth, can help deal with. If the Israeli government wants to claim that Israel's presence in Palestinian regions is for the safety of its people, we should do our part to strip them of that one *quasi-legitimate* reason for being there. This is a way we can change things. This is a way we ARE changing things. And, guess what, if Israelis and Palestinians want to hold hands everywhere across the world and Israel's government then says "I forbid it, we won't lower our walls" - just TRY and keep the world silent. Peace speaks louder than weapons.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
another reason Israel is being frowned upon.,putting morons like this guy forward to speak for them...he actually tweeted this..and the IDF bombing a school is a 'tragedy' so called.....asshole
A fair ceasefire would bring major relief for Gaza, which would mean Hamas wins the war.
The ceasefire that the world is now pushing for – one that, as UN chief Ban Ki-Moon put it, not only ends the fighting but also ends Israel’s “chokehold on Gaza” – is one that the Netanyahu government will not accept. It should accept it, because Gazans have the right to be free, but it won’t. Its rejection of John Kerry’s offer on Friday – which reportedly would have allowed the Israeli army to go on destroying Gazan tunnels even during a week-long ceasefire – is a sign of this.
If Israel agrees to end the war on terms that grant major, transformative relief to Gaza, that largely lift the blockade on the Strip and allow Gazans substantial freedom of movement – which is what Ban and even Kerry are talking about – then Hamas wins the war.
And this Israeli government will not allow that, not only because of false national pride, but also because if Hamas wins freedom for Gaza, it will take over the West Bank, directly or indirectly. The Palestinian Authority will collapse – to be replaced by Hamas or the Israeli military, either scenario being a nightmare for Israel – or the Palestinian Authority will refuse to go on playing Israel’s cop and begin demanding freedom for the West Bank, too.
As Noam Sheizaf wrote, Israel could agree to a ceasefire that ended the chokehold on Gaza if it was ready to end the occupation of the Palestinian territories altogether, in the West Bank as well. But it’s not. And so the only ceasefire the Netanyahu government will agree to is one that gains Gaza nothing or, at most, finds Israel throwing it a bone, thereby teaching Hamas and the rest of the Palestinians that firing rockets at Israel – even under extreme Israeli provocation – gets them nothing but a lot more pain.
So long as the Israeli government is committed to ruling the Palestinians, any meaningful relaxation of that rule as a result of Palestinian pressure amounts to a Palestinian victory, an Israeli loss, and an Israeli invitation to the Palestinians to apply more of the kind of pressure that won them that first victory – in this case, violence. If this pro-occupation Israeli government agrees to anything close to allowing Gazans to control their own coast and airspace, to move to and from the West Bank by land through the Israeli border crossings, and if it releases the 58 West Bank Hamasniks it rashly and wrongly imprisoned again last month, Hamas would almost certainly keep the peace in Gaza – but the West Bank would likely explode. And if that were to happen, Gaza would probably break the ceasefire and join the fighting.
Palestinians march during a protest against the Israeli attack on Gaza in the Qalandyia checkpoint near Ramallah, July 24, 2014. (photo: Activestills) Palestinians march during a protest against the Israeli attack on Gaza in the Qalandyia checkpoint near Ramallah, July 24, 2014. (photo: Activestills) It’s really all or nothing – either Israel goes about the business of freeing the Palestinians, or it better clamp down on them good and tight for as long as it can. And since this government is not ready to do the former, doing the latter is its only option.
So when Ban says “this effort – peace effort – cannot be the same as it was the last two Gaza conflicts, where we reset the clock and waited for the next one,” and Kerry says “people in Palestine, the Palestinian territories and people in Gaza have a right to feel free from restraints on their life, where they can barely get the food or the medicine or the building materials and the things that they need,” Netanyahu and his cabinet just tune out. They’re not interested. That’s not the ceasefire they have in mind at all.
The only one they’re interested in is the kind Egypt put forward at first – a return to the status quo ante, with Gaza back in the sewer, and nothing more than vague, toothless assurances to discuss Gaza’s complaints. Hamas didn’t agree to it then, and ever since, with the scenes of mounting death and destruction in Gaza, world diplomacy has shifted toward Hamas’ position (a ceasefire that at least loosens the blockade substantially) and away from Israel’s position (a ceasefire that keeps the blockade in place).
So as the war nears the end of its third week with over 1,000 Gazan deaths and 43 Israeli deaths, the effort to end it is at a stalemate. If and when this will be broken, no one knows. But once again, the ball is in Israel’s court, and once again, Israel is freezing it. continues at: http://972mag.com/why-israel-wont-sign-any-ceasefire-thats-fair/94372/
U.S. government: Stop arming Israel The Israeli military has used a wide variety of conventional weapons such as guns, bullets, missiles, drones, jet fighters, artillery, tanks, armoured vehicles and naval vessels to commit serious human rights abuses in Gaza. It is time for the U.S. government to urgently suspend arms transfers to Israel and to push for a UN arms embargo on all parties to the conflict. Sign the petition now.
Send this message to Secretary of State, John Kerry Dear Secretary John Kerry,
I am writing to express my outrage and concern about the rapidly deteriorating situation in Gaza and Israel. I call on the U.S. government to urgently suspend arms transfers to Israel and help ensure that a UN arms embargo is imposed on all parties to the conflict.
Hundreds of Palestinians been killed so far and thousands have been injured by Israeli forces, as part of its military Operation “Protective Edge” in Gaza, which began on 8 July. The UN estimates that 78 per cent of those killed in Gaza have been civilians and that 21 per cent of them have been children. More than 3,000 homes in Gaza have been completely destroyed or rendered uninhabitable by Israeli attacks, leaving tens of thousands of Gazan residents homeless.
Palestinian armed groups have launched volleys of indiscriminate rockets into Israel. Three civilians have been killed in Israel, with other civilians injured. Israeli homes and other civilian property has also been damaged. And 35 Israeli soldiers have died in the fighting.
Throughout the conflict, the Israeli military have deployed or used a wide variety of conventional arms including missiles, large calibre artillery systems, military drones including for weapon systems and also surveillance, jet fighters, tanks, armoured vehicles, naval vessels and small arms and light weapons (SALW) with corresponding ammunition. Palestinian armed groups have used or deployed rocket launchers, rockets and SALW with corresponding ammunition.
Amnesty International is calling for a UN-imposed comprehensive arms embargo on Israel, Hamas and Palestinian armed groups. As the U.S. is Israel’s largest exporter of military, security and policing equipment, Amnesty International is calling on the U.S. government to stop sending arms to Israel that are being used to commit atrocities.
I therefore urge you to:
Immediately stop the transfer of all U.S. arms to Israel until there is no longer a substantial risk that such equipment or technology will be used to commit or facilitate serious violations of international human rights or humanitarian law. This includes ending the supply of all weapons, munitions, police equipment and devices, as well as training and techniques to Israel; Help ensure that a comprehensive UN Security Council arms embargo is imposed on Israel, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups until effective mechanisms are in place to ensure that weapons, munitions, and other military equipment and technology will not be used to commit or facilitate serious violations international human rights or humanitarian law. US policy prohibits the provision of weapons where there is a credible expectation that they may be used in grave human rights violations. The U.S. government must act in accordance with its own laws and policies concerning weapons transfers.
Comments
Jon Snow - returning from Gaza - recounts the scene inside al-Shifa hospital, where doctors struggle to treat adults and children wounded by Israeli attacks.
http://www.channel4.com/news/the-children-of-gaza-jon-snow-video
There’s something very odd about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/eight-hundred-dead-palestinians-but-israel-has-impunity-9629726.html
Impunity is the word that comes to mind. Eight hundred dead Palestinians. Eight hundred. That’s infinitely more than twice the total dead of flight MH17 over Ukraine. And if you refer only to the “innocent” dead – ie no Hamas fighters, young sympathisers or corrupt Hamas officials, with whom the Israelis will, in due course, have to talk – then the women and children and elderly who have been slaughtered in Gaza are still well over the total number of MH17 victims.
And there’s something very odd, isn’t there, about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls. In Gaza, we plead for a ceasefire but let them bury their dead in the sweltering slums of Gaza and cannot even open a humanitarian route for the wounded. For the passengers on MH17, we demand – immediately – proper burial and care for the relatives of the dead. We curse those who left bodies lying in the fields of eastern Ukraine – as many bodies have been lying, for a shorter time, perhaps, but under an equally oven-like sky, in Gaza.
Because – and this has been creeping up on me for years – we don’t care so much about the Palestinians, do we? We care neither about Israeli culpability, which is far greater because of the larger number of civilians the Israeli army have killed. Nor, for that matter, Hamas’s capability. Of course, God forbid that the figures should have been the other way round. If 800 Israelis had died and only 35 Palestinians, I think I know our reaction.
READ MORE: 18 MEMBERS OF ONE FAMILY KILLED IN GAZA AHEAD OF HUMANITARIAN 'PAUSE'
ISRAEL IS ATTEMPTING TO DEAL RATIONALLY WITH AN ENEMY CRAZED WITH LUST FOR OUR DEATH
ISRAEL HAS DISCOVERED THAT IT'S NO LONGER SO EASY TO GET AWAY WITH MURDER IN THE AGE OF SOCIAL MEDIA
WHY I'M ON THE BRINK OF BURNING MY ISRAELI PASSPORT
We would call it – rightly – a slaughter, an atrocity, a crime for which the killers must be made accountable. Yes, Hamas should be made accountable, too. But why is it that the only criminals we are searching for today are the men who fired one – perhaps two – missiles at an airliner over Ukraine? If Israel’s dead equalled those of the Palestinians – and let me repeat, thank heavens this is not the case – I suspect that the Americans would be offering all military support to an Israel endangered by “Iranian-backed terrorists”. We would be demanding that Hamas hand over the monsters who fired rockets at Israel and who are, by the way, trying to hit aircraft at Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion airport. But we are not doing this. Because those who have died are mostly Palestinians.
More questions. What’s the limit for Palestinian deaths before we have a ceasefire? Eight hundred? Or 8,000? Could we have a scorecard? The exchange rate for dead? Or would we just wait until our gorge rises at the blood and say enough – even for Israel’s war, enough is enough. It’s not as if we have not been through all this before.
From the massacre of Arab villagers by Israel’s new army in 1948, as it is set down by Israeli historians, to the Sabra and Shatila massacre, when Lebanese Christian allies of Israel murdered up to 1,700 people in 1982 while Israeli troops watched; from the Qana massacre of Lebanese Arabs at the UN base – yes, the UN again – in 1996, to another, smaller terrible killing at Qana (again) 10 years later. And so to the mass killing of civilians in the 2008-9 Gaza war. And after Sabra and Shatila, there were inquiries, and after Qana there was an inquiry and after Gaza in 2008-9, there was an inquiry and don’t we remember the weight of it, somewhat lightened of course when Judge Goldstone did his best to disown it, when – according to my Israeli friends – he came under intense personal pressure.
And apart from impunity, the word stupidity comes to mind. I will forget here the corrupt Arabs and the killers of Isis and the wholesale mass murders of Iraq and Syria. Perhaps their indifference to “Palestine” is to be expected. They do not claim to represent our values. But what do we make of John Kerry, Obama’s Secretary of State, who told us last week that the “underlying issues” of the Israeli-Palestinian war need to be addressed? What on earth was he doing all last year when he claimed he was going to produce a Middle East peace in 12 months? Doesn’t he realise why the Palestinians are in Gaza?
The truth is that many hundreds of thousands of people around the world – I wish I could say millions – want an end to this impunity, an end to phrases such as “disproportionate casualties”. Disproportionate to what? Brave Israelis also feel this way. They write about it. Long live the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. Meanwhile, the Arab, Muslim world becomes wilder with anger. And we will pay the price.
we helped rebuild germany.
i am thinking israel will offer no such help to gaza once this is all over.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
well done israel, sivan here is the trophy you wanted...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
how much does hasbara pay people to do what they do on forums like this one? is it worth the price of one's soul?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
on a seperate note, Russia gets internationally embargoed up the yazoo for that plane being taken down(it more than likely wasnt even them) yet israel can kill with impuinty in Gaza and nothing..not a whisper..
can someone explain that to me??
fear of being labeled anti-semite.
israel and it's apologists know that that is something that people do not want to be called, because it can ruin their life, ruin their career, get them on terror watch lists, etc. this is precisely why calling someone anti-semite is the go-to, conditioned, response in most cases.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Since a Semitic person is someone who speaks a Semitic language, this would not be limited to Israelis or Jews, and would in fact include much of the Middle East.
Hence, you would think that anti-Semitism would include the same groups, and not only Israelis or Jews. The pivot happened in Germany if my understanding is correct (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/27646/anti-Semitism). It is a complete abuse of a term that should not have been changed from its literal meaning in the first place, and yet it is still used. If Israelis feel that there are anti-Israeli sentiments going around, they ought to call it anti-Israeli sentiments and not hide behind semantics.
That being said, anti-Semitism is very clearly rampant in the world, as both Jews and Arabs alike are being vilified. How rational or justifiable the vilification is varies depending on what subset of Semites one is referring to, and who's being asked.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Ministry of Health spokesman Ashraf al-Qidra said at 7:00 p.m. that 135 dead bodies had been pulled out of the rubble so far.
Ben!
What's up brother? Thanks for your contributions to the Israel/Palestine threads. I remember you posting on the board a long time ago, about knowing people who had made Aliyah, and wondering where you stood on the conflict/occupation...in following your recent posts, it seems you have just recently taken it upon yourself to get more informed on the topic; most importantly, with an open mind. And for that you've had tensions with family and loved ones. I have had some intense discussions with my own family on this topic...I would describe my family as opposed to organized religion, but their beliefs are rooted in Christian upbringing, with a mainstream media moulded worldview. They have no vested interest, and only a narrow scope of knowledge on this topic, and it's still a tough conversation to have. I can only imagine what its like for you...it takes some balls to speak your mind and seek truth, and I commend you for doing so.
Mandi mentioned a while back that you might be hitting the Denver show with her...I'm trying to make it down but not sure if I can swing it. When I first saw you posting in those threads, after your prior Aliyah comment, I was a bit concerned that it could get nasty, and it would be a bit awkward to see you in Denver...but I think you've proven yourself reasonable, with good intentions toward a just peace.
Hope we're able to meet up in Denver and share a couple pops and a j like we did in Manhattan four (!!) years ago...only legally!
Peace
K
Over men and horses hoops and garters
Lastly through a hogshead of real fire
In this way Mr. K will challenge the world
http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/impact-social-media-israelgaza-conflict/1182
As for nastiness, every participant in this discussion has good cause to show skepticism (I certainly did at first when I started here), but my rule of thumb is to picture the face of a real human being on the other side of the screen. If you wouldn't say something to someone's face - don't say it here. Seems most (albeit not all) of us active in this discussion are feeling the same way, which is refreshing.
As for truly far less important things: yes, I'm hoping to make it to Denver, but that'll be contingent on a ticket! Hope you, badbrains, Mandi and I can get super baked and share a love for Peace and Pearl Jam together!
Ben
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Kyle, we hung out, had a great time, smoked some weed, and all had fun at an awesome rock concert. Yet because I had posted about a friend making Aliyah (and while I don't remember the details or context of that discussion, I'm assuming all I had posted was that I didn't wish that harm would befall him), it meant that I needed to prove myself just to elevate my status to reasonable over time. If this happens over a discussion on a Pearl Jam forum between two people who don't consider themselves religious (and have hung out and shot the shit together) - what's going to happen when Israelis and Palestinians are free to roam between each others' territories?
This is where social media can have tremendous impact: there's ripe opportunity for Israelis and Palestinians to talk privately, learn that they are in fact all human beings, and that they both love life and hate death. This may be an idealist notion, but I think this is necessary for an everlasting and, as you said, just Peace. And this is where absurd nationalist/Zionist propaganda needs to cease, as well as what ever equivalents exist within Palestinian regions. "Make love, not war" may seem like a bullshit hippie expression, but the truth is, a government must defend its people. All of us in the world must do our part, as the notion that "without Israel's stronghold over Gaza and the West Bank, Israel will not be safe" is a prevalent viewpoint amongst Israelis, and this is one that we, Citizens of Earth, can help deal with. If the Israeli government wants to claim that Israel's presence in Palestinian regions is for the safety of its people, we should do our part to strip them of that one *quasi-legitimate* reason for being there. This is a way we can change things. This is a way we ARE changing things. And, guess what, if Israelis and Palestinians want to hold hands everywhere across the world and Israel's government then says "I forbid it, we won't lower our walls" - just TRY and keep the world silent. Peace speaks louder than weapons.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
The ceasefire that the world is now pushing for – one that, as UN chief Ban Ki-Moon put it, not only ends the fighting but also ends Israel’s “chokehold on Gaza” – is one that the Netanyahu government will not accept. It should accept it, because Gazans have the right to be free, but it won’t. Its rejection of John Kerry’s offer on Friday – which reportedly would have allowed the Israeli army to go on destroying Gazan tunnels even during a week-long ceasefire – is a sign of this.
If Israel agrees to end the war on terms that grant major, transformative relief to Gaza, that largely lift the blockade on the Strip and allow Gazans substantial freedom of movement – which is what Ban and even Kerry are talking about – then Hamas wins the war.
And this Israeli government will not allow that, not only because of false national pride, but also because if Hamas wins freedom for Gaza, it will take over the West Bank, directly or indirectly. The Palestinian Authority will collapse – to be replaced by Hamas or the Israeli military, either scenario being a nightmare for Israel – or the Palestinian Authority will refuse to go on playing Israel’s cop and begin demanding freedom for the West Bank, too.
As Noam Sheizaf wrote, Israel could agree to a ceasefire that ended the chokehold on Gaza if it was ready to end the occupation of the Palestinian territories altogether, in the West Bank as well. But it’s not. And so the only ceasefire the Netanyahu government will agree to is one that gains Gaza nothing or, at most, finds Israel throwing it a bone, thereby teaching Hamas and the rest of the Palestinians that firing rockets at Israel – even under extreme Israeli provocation – gets them nothing but a lot more pain.
So long as the Israeli government is committed to ruling the Palestinians, any meaningful relaxation of that rule as a result of Palestinian pressure amounts to a Palestinian victory, an Israeli loss, and an Israeli invitation to the Palestinians to apply more of the kind of pressure that won them that first victory – in this case, violence. If this pro-occupation Israeli government agrees to anything close to allowing Gazans to control their own coast and airspace, to move to and from the West Bank by land through the Israeli border crossings, and if it releases the 58 West Bank Hamasniks it rashly and wrongly imprisoned again last month, Hamas would almost certainly keep the peace in Gaza – but the West Bank would likely explode. And if that were to happen, Gaza would probably break the ceasefire and join the fighting.
Palestinians march during a protest against the Israeli attack on Gaza in the Qalandyia checkpoint near Ramallah, July 24, 2014. (photo: Activestills)
Palestinians march during a protest against the Israeli attack on Gaza in the Qalandyia checkpoint near Ramallah, July 24, 2014. (photo: Activestills)
It’s really all or nothing – either Israel goes about the business of freeing the Palestinians, or it better clamp down on them good and tight for as long as it can. And since this government is not ready to do the former, doing the latter is its only option.
So when Ban says “this effort – peace effort – cannot be the same as it was the last two Gaza conflicts, where we reset the clock and waited for the next one,” and Kerry says “people in Palestine, the Palestinian territories and people in Gaza have a right to feel free from restraints on their life, where they can barely get the food or the medicine or the building materials and the things that they need,” Netanyahu and his cabinet just tune out. They’re not interested. That’s not the ceasefire they have in mind at all.
The only one they’re interested in is the kind Egypt put forward at first – a return to the status quo ante, with Gaza back in the sewer, and nothing more than vague, toothless assurances to discuss Gaza’s complaints. Hamas didn’t agree to it then, and ever since, with the scenes of mounting death and destruction in Gaza, world diplomacy has shifted toward Hamas’ position (a ceasefire that at least loosens the blockade substantially) and away from Israel’s position (a ceasefire that keeps the blockade in place).
So as the war nears the end of its third week with over 1,000 Gazan deaths and 43 Israeli deaths, the effort to end it is at a stalemate. If and when this will be broken, no one knows. But once again, the ball is in Israel’s court, and once again, Israel is freezing it.
continues at:
http://972mag.com/why-israel-wont-sign-any-ceasefire-thats-fair/94372/
The Israeli military has used a wide variety of conventional weapons such as guns, bullets, missiles, drones, jet fighters, artillery, tanks, armoured vehicles and naval vessels to commit serious human rights abuses in Gaza. It is time for the U.S. government to urgently suspend arms transfers to Israel and to push for a UN arms embargo on all parties to the conflict. Sign the petition now.
Send this message to
Secretary of State, John Kerry
Dear Secretary John Kerry,
I am writing to express my outrage and concern about the rapidly deteriorating situation in Gaza and Israel. I call on the U.S. government to urgently suspend arms transfers to Israel and help ensure that a UN arms embargo is imposed on all parties to the conflict.
Hundreds of Palestinians been killed so far and thousands have been injured by Israeli forces, as part of its military Operation “Protective Edge” in Gaza, which began on 8 July. The UN estimates that 78 per cent of those killed in Gaza have been civilians and that 21 per cent of them have been children. More than 3,000 homes in Gaza have been completely destroyed or rendered uninhabitable by Israeli attacks, leaving tens of thousands of Gazan residents homeless.
Palestinian armed groups have launched volleys of indiscriminate rockets into Israel. Three civilians have been killed in Israel, with other civilians injured. Israeli homes and other civilian property has also been damaged. And 35 Israeli soldiers have died in the fighting.
Throughout the conflict, the Israeli military have deployed or used a wide variety of conventional arms including missiles, large calibre artillery systems, military drones including for weapon systems and also surveillance, jet fighters, tanks, armoured vehicles, naval vessels and small arms and light weapons (SALW) with corresponding ammunition. Palestinian armed groups have used or deployed rocket launchers, rockets and SALW with corresponding ammunition.
Amnesty International is calling for a UN-imposed comprehensive arms embargo on Israel, Hamas and Palestinian armed groups. As the U.S. is Israel’s largest exporter of military, security and policing equipment, Amnesty International is calling on the U.S. government to stop sending arms to Israel that are being used to commit atrocities.
I therefore urge you to:
Immediately stop the transfer of all U.S. arms to Israel until there is no longer a substantial risk that such equipment or technology will be used to commit or facilitate serious violations of international human rights or humanitarian law. This includes ending the supply of all weapons, munitions, police equipment and devices, as well as training and techniques to Israel;
Help ensure that a comprehensive UN Security Council arms embargo is imposed on Israel, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups until effective mechanisms are in place to ensure that weapons, munitions, and other military equipment and technology will not be used to commit or facilitate serious violations international human rights or humanitarian law.
US policy prohibits the provision of weapons where there is a credible expectation that they may be used in grave human rights violations. The U.S. government must act in accordance with its own laws and policies concerning weapons transfers.
Stop arming Israel. The world is watching.
Sincerely,
full details
https://campaigns.amnesty.org/actions/us-stop-arming-israel