Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War
Comments
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Who said anything about more terror being the answer?DreamyDan said:l'm probably very naive,and i so promised myself i wasn't going to get involved, but...
@Byrnzie: isn't the whole conflict in that part of the world proof that solving the issue with violence doesn't work?! has it worked so far? talking doesn't appear to help much either, true but how is it going to help if each action gets a retribution? isn't the terror just going to carry on, an on and on.... until there is nobody left in either Israel or Palestine {maybe that's the only answer...}... is more terror really the only answer?
to me as an outsider, all i can see is two nations with massive ego's, stubbornly not wanting to make the first move towards a solution.
Read back through my last five or so posts.
This conflict would have been brought to an end a long time ago if Israel weren't routinely given a green light by the U.S at the U.N to do whatever they want. So maybe that's where you should start?
Maybe you'd like to protest the fact that $4 Billion of your tax dollars are sent to Israel every year to help maintain their illegal occupation, and the bombs they use to drop on babies.Post edited by Byrnzie on0 -
I just do my best to confront the lies whenever I see them, on here and on FB, YouTube, Twitter, the Guardian, New Yorker, Jerusalem Post, etc. That, and writing to my political representatives protesting Israel's illegal occupation, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.
If I was in England I'd also be out in the streets protesting.
Also, I've taken note of that list of goods and companies boycotted by the BDS campaign, and I'm gonna boycott them myself.Post edited by Byrnzie on0 -
fairly unrelated, but you remind me of my former partner: not satisfied until he was told yes you're completely right, i will shut up and bow to your better knowledge...there's no debating or discussing anything with you - you're convinced you're right, and anyone who thinks otherwise or doesn't concur is stupid/wrong/ignorant... so i'm out...
have a nice day!0 -
What?DreamyDan said:fairly unrelated, but you remind me of my former partner: not satisfied until he was told yes you're completely right, i will shut up and bow to your better knowledge...there's no debating or discussing anything with you - you're convinced you're right, and anyone who thinks otherwise or doesn't concur is stupid/wrong/ignorant... so i'm out...
have a nice day!
You chimed in claiming that I suggested
Violence was the solution. I said nothing of the sort.
Then when I offered some possible lines of action you could take you tell me that you can't debate anything with me and high-tail it out of here.
Can somebody please pinch me? I feel like I've entered the twilight zone.Post edited by Byrnzie on0 -
Hence why I suggested you could scroll up the page and read my last few posts, as I explained above that a solution has already been agreed upon by the whole Word. Unfortunately this solution - the peaceful settlement of the conflict under the terms of international law - is vetoed by the U.S every year. The U.S stands alone in the World in opposing a resolution of the conflict, at Israel's behest.DreamyDan said:all i can see is two nations with massive ego's, stubbornly not wanting to make the first move towards a solution...
Hence why writing to your political reps may be a solution, or protesting in the streets, raising awareness - trying to change the deadlock.
Then again, if you don't really care about the Palestinians, then you also have the option to do nothing.
Post edited by Byrnzie on0 -
@byrnzie: it's not just a reply to your answer to me, i feel you do this to everyone who had not agreed with you in the time that this thread {peacefully started by someone who copied Eddie Vedder's peaceful open letter} has been open, but all i get from you on here is I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG if anyone doesn't promote the same ideas as you have... it's very clear where you stand by now, that you think that American government is wrong for what they to and that you have the solution {have you offered your services to the United Nations already?}
this thread isn't about the Israel/Palestine conflict, it's about a pro-peace singer opting the notion of Non-Violence... All you're doing is {continually} ramming your opinion down everyone's throat, and making it a pretty aggressive affair...
shame...
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Feel free to put me on ignore then. Nobody's forcing you to read my comments.DreamyDan said:@byrnzie: it's not just a reply to your answer to me, i feel you do this to everyone who had not agreed with you in the time that this thread {peacefully started by someone who copied Eddie Vedder's peaceful open letter} has been open, but all i get from you on here is I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG if anyone doesn't promote the same ideas as you have... it's very clear where you stand by now, that you think that American government is wrong for what they to and that you have the solution {have you offered your services to the United Nations already?}
this thread isn't about the Israel/Palestine conflict, it's about a pro-peace singer opting the notion of Non-Violence... All you're doing is {continually} ramming your opinion down everyone's throat, and making it a pretty aggressive affair...
shame...0 -
$4 Billion U.S tax dollars are sent to Israel every year to help pay for this slaughter:Post edited by Byrnzie on0
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You read all the posts in this thread and that's all you got from byrnzie? Really? What about the other guys throwing insults around (including myself), why did you ignore all of us out and singled byrnzie out? I'm sorry but if you're gonna call out someone for this, please call all guilty parties. Don't single out the one guy who's been on here for years debating this sour subject, and ignore all the other "you're misinformed, you're an idiot, you're silly, you're a fucken liar!" posts. And again, byrnzie ALWAYS includes links to whatever he posts. I'm sorry but if anyone reads all the links that EVERYONE posts and doesn't see what the fuck is REALLY going on over there, then you're not being honest with YOURSELF.DreamyDan said:@byrnzie: it's not just a reply to your answer to me, i feel you do this to everyone who had not agreed with you in the time that this thread {peacefully started by someone who copied Eddie Vedder's peaceful open letter} has been open, but all i get from you on here is I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG if anyone doesn't promote the same ideas as you have... it's very clear where you stand by now, that you think that American government is wrong for what they to and that you have the solution {have you offered your services to the United Nations already?}
this thread isn't about the Israel/Palestine conflict, it's about a pro-peace singer opting the notion of Non-Violence... All you're doing is {continually} ramming your opinion down everyone's throat, and making it a pretty aggressive affair...
shame...
Let's all stop insulting each other, including myself.0 -
See this is what I'm talking about. Byrnzie puts a link to the story of MORE kids being blown away with pictures, and people ignore them and concentrate on byrnzie. Not what he posted but him speciphically. Maybe for those who don't really want to know what's going on should just stay out of the debate. This isn't about byrnzie or RR or eldarion or Gimmie or me, it's ABOUT finding aReal peace for BOTH sides.Byrnzie said:Meanwhile...
8 children killed as missiles hit Gaza playground, hospital
Published time: July 28, 2014
Hopes for an imminent end to the Gaza conflict are fading, with renewed violence bringing new casualties. Israel and Hamas blame each other after eight children were killed and 46 others injured by a missile that landed in a Gaza refugee camp playground.
...A massive explosion rocked a public garden in northern Gaza, killing eight children and two adults and injuring 46 others, according to Palestinian medics. A health official at nearby Shifa Hospital said the children were playing on a swing when the strike hit the park in the beachfront Shati refugee camp on the edge of Gaza City, AP reported.
“The children were playing and were happy, enjoying Eid, and they got hit. Some lost their heads, others their legs and hands,” eyewitness Nidal Aljerbi said.
The refugee camp park was attacked just minutes after Shifa Hospital's outpatient clinic was hit by another strike, causing more casualties.
...The World Health Organization said in a statement that it was “appalled by the continuing trend for health-care facilities, staff and vehicles to come under direct fire in Gaza” since the escalation of violence on July 8."
Channel 4 News:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG6fiqOYdYY0 -
Here's a funny and telling article:
Citing Holocaust, Israel Demands ‘Strict Regulation’ of Antiwar Protests in Europe
Push for EU Special Commissioner to Regulate Protests
by Jason Ditz, July 28, 2014
Print This | Share This
A new Holocaust is imminent, if one is to believe Israeli MPs, who spent the afternoon berating European officials about the growing antiwar protests across their countries, centered on criticizing the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip.
Officials blamed “one-sided” media reports on the large number of dead civilians in Israel’s attack, and demanded the European Union impose “strict regulations on the format and content” of antiwar demonstrations going forward.
Some of the EU officials present, notably Danish officials, insisted that they had a right to free expression that would be abridged by the proposed “regulations,” but Israeli officials were having none of it, insisting that criticism of Israel was anti-Semitism in and of itself, and that “there is a difference between free speech and incendiary speech.”
The Israeli proposal would see the creation of a Special Commissioner in the European Union that would empowered to “monitor” antiwar protesters and restrict them from portraying Israel an “an aggressor” during its assorted invasions of Palestinian territory.0 -
If "Death to all Jews" were what those signs said - then sure, Israel, that's something worth standing up for. Just like if I saw "Death to all ______ (insert your political or religious bias here)", I'd be appalled. But, because I can read, I see that that's not the case. Protest away, it's your right.badbrains said:Here's a funny and telling article:
Citing Holocaust, Israel Demands ‘Strict Regulation’ of Antiwar Protests in Europe
Push for EU Special Commissioner to Regulate Protests
by Jason Ditz, July 28, 2014
Print This | Share This
A new Holocaust is imminent, if one is to believe Israeli MPs, who spent the afternoon berating European officials about the growing antiwar protests across their countries, centered on criticizing the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip.
Officials blamed “one-sided” media reports on the large number of dead civilians in Israel’s attack, and demanded the European Union impose “strict regulations on the format and content” of antiwar demonstrations going forward.
Some of the EU officials present, notably Danish officials, insisted that they had a right to free expression that would be abridged by the proposed “regulations,” but Israeli officials were having none of it, insisting that criticism of Israel was anti-Semitism in and of itself, and that “there is a difference between free speech and incendiary speech.”
The Israeli proposal would see the creation of a Special Commissioner in the European Union that would empowered to “monitor” antiwar protesters and restrict them from portraying Israel an “an aggressor” during its assorted invasions of Palestinian territory.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
this is powerful stuff from an irish human rights activist working in the West Bank.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/07/29/dear-israelis/
Dear Israelis
You need to know that your latest onslaught in Gaza guarantees that as a nation, you will be loathed and reviled by growing numbers of people around the world. No, not because you are jewish- that doesn’t come into it, but because you murder civilians in their 100s with your high-tech weaponry. Because you have burnt little children, blown their limbs off, killed their parents, their brothers and sisters, grandparents, aunts and uncles.
You have destroyed their homes. Because you fire flechettes at human beings, because you use DIME bombs in densely crowded civilian areas, you have rained white phosphorous down on a school, you have killed disabled people in their residential home, killed sick people in intensive care when you bombed a hospital. You bombed a UN school where women and children had taken refuge and then lied about it. You bombed a playground on the first day of Eid Al Fitr, a festival akin to Christmas. That was your present to the little children who played on a roundabout in their new outfits, now wrapped in sheets in their graves. Again, you sent out your propagandists to lie.
Since you destroyed the infrastructure of Gaza in 2008-2009, you have never allowed it to be rebuilt, leading to no sewage treatment, poor water supplies, sporadic electricity – in short you have made people’s lives as hard as they can possibly be. Relentlessly. You shoot farmers and fishermen who are doing their best to fight off poverty and fend for their families. You have done all these things and so much more, and then you lie to the world, trying to depict your victims as perpetrators, when it is you.
You are the occupying power, you are the aggressor. You bully the policy and decision makers and use political influence to ensure that your version of events is the one that is repeated, as if it were the truth. But you are not fooling us all, and you will pay for your crimes in the international criminal court – of that I have no doubt.
Call me an anti-semite and I will laugh at you as I know it is untrue, you will not shut me and others like me up. We will continue to speak out.
We will boycott your products, we will call out with millions of voices around the world for divestment of funds from Israel and sanctions against you until you comply with international law, until you:
1. End the occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantle the Wall
2. Recognize the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
3. Respect, protect and promote the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.
We will struggle against our governments and institutions that are complicit in your crimes until you find yourself alone.You can change your path. You can stand for rights, for justice, for humanity. I hope this is the choice you make. But in the end, the choice is yours.
Elaine Bradley
Elaine is a human rights activist working in the West Bank.0 -
WOW. What more can u say? BRAVO Elaine Bradley, you are a TRUE human being. And YES, yesterday WAS OUR Christmas. And look what Israel did to those kids playing and trying to celebrate OUR CHRISTMAS. In a time with so much darkness around them, you couldn't give them 1 FUCKEN DAY OF REST! Oh u did give them rest, in the form of REST IN PEACE or PIECES whatever you prefer. WOW.eldarion75 said:this is powerful stuff from an irish human rights activist working in the West Bank.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/07/29/dear-israelis/
Dear Israelis
You need to know that your latest onslaught in Gaza guarantees that as a nation, you will be loathed and reviled by growing numbers of people around the world. No, not because you are jewish- that doesn’t come into it, but because you murder civilians in their 100s with your high-tech weaponry. Because you have burnt little children, blown their limbs off, killed their parents, their brothers and sisters, grandparents, aunts and uncles.
You have destroyed their homes. Because you fire flechettes at human beings, because you use DIME bombs in densely crowded civilian areas, you have rained white phosphorous down on a school, you have killed disabled people in their residential home, killed sick people in intensive care when you bombed a hospital. You bombed a UN school where women and children had taken refuge and then lied about it. You bombed a playground on the first day of Eid Al Fitr, a festival akin to Christmas. That was your present to the little children who played on a roundabout in their new outfits, now wrapped in sheets in their graves. Again, you sent out your propagandists to lie.
Since you destroyed the infrastructure of Gaza in 2008-2009, you have never allowed it to be rebuilt, leading to no sewage treatment, poor water supplies, sporadic electricity – in short you have made people’s lives as hard as they can possibly be. Relentlessly. You shoot farmers and fishermen who are doing their best to fight off poverty and fend for their families. You have done all these things and so much more, and then you lie to the world, trying to depict your victims as perpetrators, when it is you.
You are the occupying power, you are the aggressor. You bully the policy and decision makers and use political influence to ensure that your version of events is the one that is repeated, as if it were the truth. But you are not fooling us all, and you will pay for your crimes in the international criminal court – of that I have no doubt.
Call me an anti-semite and I will laugh at you as I know it is untrue, you will not shut me and others like me up. We will continue to speak out.
We will boycott your products, we will call out with millions of voices around the world for divestment of funds from Israel and sanctions against you until you comply with international law, until you:
1. End the occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantle the Wall
2. Recognize the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
3. Respect, protect and promote the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.
We will struggle against our governments and institutions that are complicit in your crimes until you find yourself alone.You can change your path. You can stand for rights, for justice, for humanity. I hope this is the choice you make. But in the end, the choice is yours.
Elaine Bradley
Elaine is a human rights activist working in the West Bank.0 -
I agree, and his anger is moving this thread in the wrong direction. There's a thread already existing on AMT for toxic anger. And I agree Brian, anger can be fruitful, to a point... After that, it just disintegrates the human psyche and seeks to destroy ones self.brianlux said:Byrnzie said:100,000 angry people.
Palestine solidarity goes mainstream in UK as 100,000 march in London on 26 July.
Plus Byrnzie makes 100,001 (and counting).
Anger over this issue is totally understandable, Byrnzie. These are burning hot issues. Like you, I get mad as hell about some of the shit in this world and if I channel that anger into useful action that's fine but anger can be merely corrosive and often more harmful than fruitful- and I call myself out on that one, I'm not casting stones.
So can we get down to the business of thinking of something useful to do rather that blast each other? (and again, I call myself on that, for sure.)
Let's not be each others enemies here.
And none of that hippie shit either! ;-)0 -
And the anger just killed the AMT thread. Hope this one isn't next.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Yeah, I used the C-word to describe Alan Dershowitz.
I mean, it's not as if I was referring to someone with even an iota of decency or honesty in their being.
I know that word is a no-no for other posters, but for Alan Dershowitz?0 -
Isn't that a little too 'angry' for some people around here?eldarion75 said:this is powerful stuff from an irish human rights activist working in the West Bank.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/07/29/dear-israelis/
Dear Israelis
You need to know that your latest onslaught in Gaza guarantees that as a nation, you will be loathed and reviled by growing numbers of people around the world. No, not because you are jewish- that doesn’t come into it, but because you murder civilians in their 100s with your high-tech weaponry. Because you have burnt little children, blown their limbs off, killed their parents, their brothers and sisters, grandparents, aunts and uncles.
You have destroyed their homes. Because you fire flechettes at human beings, because you use DIME bombs in densely crowded civilian areas, you have rained white phosphorous down on a school, you have killed disabled people in their residential home, killed sick people in intensive care when you bombed a hospital. You bombed a UN school where women and children had taken refuge and then lied about it. You bombed a playground on the first day of Eid Al Fitr, a festival akin to Christmas. That was your present to the little children who played on a roundabout in their new outfits, now wrapped in sheets in their graves. Again, you sent out your propagandists to lie.
Since you destroyed the infrastructure of Gaza in 2008-2009, you have never allowed it to be rebuilt, leading to no sewage treatment, poor water supplies, sporadic electricity – in short you have made people’s lives as hard as they can possibly be. Relentlessly. You shoot farmers and fishermen who are doing their best to fight off poverty and fend for their families. You have done all these things and so much more, and then you lie to the world, trying to depict your victims as perpetrators, when it is you.
You are the occupying power, you are the aggressor. You bully the policy and decision makers and use political influence to ensure that your version of events is the one that is repeated, as if it were the truth. But you are not fooling us all, and you will pay for your crimes in the international criminal court – of that I have no doubt.
Call me an anti-semite and I will laugh at you as I know it is untrue, you will not shut me and others like me up. We will continue to speak out.
We will boycott your products, we will call out with millions of voices around the world for divestment of funds from Israel and sanctions against you until you comply with international law, until you:
1. End the occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantle the Wall
2. Recognize the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
3. Respect, protect and promote the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.
We will struggle against our governments and institutions that are complicit in your crimes until you find yourself alone.You can change your path. You can stand for rights, for justice, for humanity. I hope this is the choice you make. But in the end, the choice is yours.
Elaine Bradley
Elaine is a human rights activist working in the West Bank.
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So after taking a break for a few days from this subject and sitting down and really trying to see things from all sides and listening to those that I think have un biased opinion on the subject.Im left wondering if it Dosent boil down to a couple basic components for a first step to peace.
Ultimately if Hamas were willing to come out and acknowledge Israel's right to exist and be willing to demilitarize And Israel was willing to remove restrictions on Gaza and going back to 67 lines.With some land up for shared residency and negotiations wouldn't this cover the fundamental essence of what both sides really see as core points to work toward peace?
People of Gaza want freedom,Israelis want safety isn't this the big issue.I don't see one happening without the other.If I was a Palestinian,Freedom from Israel and freedom of movement would be paramount.And as An Israeli I would want to know that my neighbor Dosent want me eliminated and agrees to there right to exist.The people of the area already live in many areas together in peace .Why can't they get past these simple issues? Without casting blame on past regrets.Just move forward.0 -
Toxic anger? At what point will we all get angry about what's going on?backseatLover12 said:
I agree, and his anger is moving this thread in the wrong direction. There's a thread already existing on AMT for toxic anger. And I agree Brian, anger can be fruitful, to a point... After that, it just disintegrates the human psyche and seeks to destroy ones self.brianlux said:Byrnzie said:100,000 angry people.
Palestine solidarity goes mainstream in UK as 100,000 march in London on 26 July.
Plus Byrnzie makes 100,001 (and counting).
Anger over this issue is totally understandable, Byrnzie. These are burning hot issues. Like you, I get mad as hell about some of the shit in this world and if I channel that anger into useful action that's fine but anger can be merely corrosive and often more harmful than fruitful- and I call myself out on that one, I'm not casting stones.
So can we get down to the business of thinking of something useful to do rather that blast each other? (and again, I call myself on that, for sure.)
Let's not be each others enemies here.
And none of that hippie shit either! ;-)
Ed was obviously angry.
Please, can we all stop making this about one person here?
0
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