Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

DreamyDan

not sure if i want to throw myself into an anti-pro anything debate here {too hopelessly emotional and sensitive for that...} but i just need to say how shocked i was when i read the comments underneath the Facebook post from Rolling Stone Mag, where people were calling Ed all sorts of horrible, just because he dared to speak out against war?!! not even taking sides or anything, just saying 'War hurts, no matter which side the bombs are faling on...'

i personally concur with all he said in his letter, especially the following:
With all the global achievements in modern technology,
enhanced communication and information devices, cracking the
human genome, land rovers on Mars etc., do we really have to
resign ourselves to the devastating reality that conflict will be
resolved with bombs, murder and acts of barbarism?

We are such a remarkable species. Capable of creating beauty.
Capable of awe-inspiring advancements. We must be capable of
resolving conflicts without bloodshed.

beautiful words coming from a beautiful person...

JimmyV

DreamyDan said:

not sure if i want to throw myself into an anti-pro anything debate here {too hopelessly emotional and sensitive for that...} but i just need to say how shocked i was when i read the comments underneath the Facebook post from Rolling Stone Mag, where people were calling Ed all sorts of horrible, just because he dared to speak out against war?!! not even taking sides or anything, just saying 'War hurts, no matter which side the bombs are faling on...'

i personally concur with all he said in his letter, especially the following:
With all the global achievements in modern technology,
enhanced communication and information devices, cracking the
human genome, land rovers on Mars etc., do we really have to
resign ourselves to the devastating reality that conflict will be
resolved with bombs, murder and acts of barbarism?

We are such a remarkable species. Capable of creating beauty.
Capable of awe-inspiring advancements. We must be capable of
resolving conflicts without bloodshed.

beautiful words coming from a beautiful person...

Couldn't agree more. Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.

Byrnzie

And you think it's gonna stop by doing nothing?

Byrnzie

....

Byrnzie

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/gaza-graveyard-sing-joyful-israeli-youths

“Gaza is a graveyard,” sing joyful Israeli youths

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7qFACSfd_k

In her latest post, my colleague Rania Khalek makes reference to “a new racist chant mocking the more than two hundred children slaughtered by Israel’s merciless bombing campaign in Gaza: ‘Tomorrow there’s no school in Gaza, they don’t have any children left.’”

This video shows an Israeli mob actually singing in celebration of children’s deaths in the style of a soccer fans’ song: “In Gaza there’s no studying, No children are left there, Olé, olé, olé-olé-olé.”

DreamyDan

Byrnzie said:

And you think it's gonna stop by doing nothing?

i have no idea, but so far the Going In Guns Blazing Approach doesn't appear to have done a great deal of good... in the long run... guess i'm taking the 'hippie' approach of being pro-peace, in anything...

with JimmyV on this one..

Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.

brianlux

DreamyDan said:

Byrnzie said:

And you think it's gonna stop by doing nothing?

i have no idea, but so far the Going In Guns Blazing Approach doesn't appear to have done a great deal of good... in the long run... guess i'm taking the 'hippie' approach of being pro-peace, in anything...

with JimmyV on this one..

Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.

Ya, to my mind the whole fundamentalist, true believer, nationalistic way of thinking is what leads to war. I believe we would do well to take a stance on things we believe in and be active in promoting those beliefs but I believe even more that we would all do even better by promoting peace- I do not believe warring is the way to accomplish anything good. I sometimes ask, why is it that in today's world the idea of promoting peace get is dismissed as a "hippie thing"? Am I so naive as to think that achieving peace is a piece of cake? Something easy? Even something likely? No. Do I still believe striving for peace is a worthy, just and sensible way to think? Hell yes!

backseatLover12

JimmyV said:

DreamyDan said:

not sure if i want to throw myself into an anti-pro anything debate here {too hopelessly emotional and sensitive for that...} but i just need to say how shocked i was when i read the comments underneath the Facebook post from Rolling Stone Mag, where people were calling Ed all sorts of horrible, just because he dared to speak out against war?!! not even taking sides or anything, just saying 'War hurts, no matter which side the bombs are faling on...'

i personally concur with all he said in his letter, especially the following:
With all the global achievements in modern technology,
enhanced communication and information devices, cracking the
human genome, land rovers on Mars etc., do we really have to
resign ourselves to the devastating reality that conflict will be
resolved with bombs, murder and acts of barbarism?

We are such a remarkable species. Capable of creating beauty.
Capable of awe-inspiring advancements. We must be capable of
resolving conflicts without bloodshed.

beautiful words coming from a beautiful person...

Couldn't agree more. Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.

Nasty comments on an internet board aren't just because people are against EV though. It's some kind of sick psychologically satisfying thing that makes people feel good to be angry online and put another person down, especially when it can be done anonymously, never having to take your words responsibly or being accountable for them.

Much like this place.

backseatLover12

DreamyDan said:

Byrnzie said:

And you think it's gonna stop by doing nothing?

i have no idea, but so far the Going In Guns Blazing Approach doesn't appear to have done a great deal of good... in the long run... guess i'm taking the 'hippie' approach of being pro-peace, in anything...

with JimmyV on this one..

Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.

Me, too.

backseatLover12

Byrnzie said:

brianlux said:

It really is so easy to get caught up in the politics here and as much as the whole mess is terrible and appalling, the message of this thread was originally about having hope for peace, ending war, spreading love.

Let's get behind those thoughts here and take the political volleys back to AMT where it is better suited.

Sorry, but your passive hippy approach solves nothing. It achieves nothing.

Feel free to listen to John Lennon's Imagine if you wish, but people are being massacred. And passing flowers around and talking about love and peace is a fucking cop out.

You like American Indians, right? You think the American Indian Movement just sat around smoking peace pipes and banging drums? You think Leonard Peltier sat around getting stoned and listening to John Lennon singing 'Imagine'?

I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.

JimmyV

To clarify, I am not saying anyone is wrong for doing all they can to end the tragedies unfolding in Gaza, or Syria, or Ukraine, or anywhere else. Just that, as far as Eddie's words go, he was not speaking to any one conflict exclusively.

eldarion75

EdsonNascimento said:

eldarion75 said:

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
7. International forces on the borders.
8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.

Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.

PJ_Soul

Byrnzie said:

Who is saying anyone should be doing nothing? Obviously the Israelis and the Palestinians need to do something.
I don't believe I've ever seen anyone be neutral on the subject. EV certainly isn't. FYI, taking one side 100% and neutrality aren't the only two options.

Do you think it's going to stop by you plastering a message board with repetitive posts about it?

JimmyV

eldarion75 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

eldarion75 said:

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
7. International forces on the borders.
8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.

Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.

Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.

ikiT

Peace, man.

eldarion75

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

eldarion75 said:

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
7. International forces on the borders.
8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.

Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.

Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.

I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.

JimmyV

eldarion75 said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

eldarion75 said:

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
7. International forces on the borders.
8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.

Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.

Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.

I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.

Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.

eldarion75

absolutely..it's a topic that gets everyone heated up..

backseatLover12

JimmyV said:

Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.

Precisely the reason there will always be fighting. That's why what EV says is so important. Both sides have to give up ego, being "right", and their pride for any solutions to ever happen. So let it go, people!! When we get old, will we look back and say that we were open minded and accepted others for being different? Or will we look back and regret all the anger we had because our egos and pride were too precious to mess with? And where do egos and pride get us anyway in the long run? A lot of disconnection from other people, a lot of unhappiness, and a lot of war.

badbrains

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

eldarion75 said:

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
7. International forces on the borders.
8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.

Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.

Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.

I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.

Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.

I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.