To clarify, I am not saying anyone is wrong for doing all they can to end the tragedies unfolding in Gaza, or Syria, or Ukraine, or anywhere else. Just that, as far as Eddie's words go, he was not speaking to any one conflict exclusively.
Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.
1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. 2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. 3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. 4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. 5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. 6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. 7. International forces on the borders. 8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. 9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. 10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.
Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?
You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.
Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"
This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.
Who is saying anyone should be doing nothing? Obviously the Israelis and the Palestinians need to do something. I don't believe I've ever seen anyone be neutral on the subject. EV certainly isn't. FYI, taking one side 100% and neutrality aren't the only two options.
Do you think it's going to stop by you plastering a message board with repetitive posts about it?
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.
1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. 2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. 3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. 4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. 5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. 6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. 7. International forces on the borders. 8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. 9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. 10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.
Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?
You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.
Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"
This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.
1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. 2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. 3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. 4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. 5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. 6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. 7. International forces on the borders. 8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. 9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. 10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.
Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?
You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.
Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"
This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.
Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.
1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. 2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. 3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. 4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. 5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. 6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. 7. International forces on the borders. 8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. 9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. 10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.
Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?
You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.
Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"
This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.
Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
Precisely the reason there will always be fighting. That's why what EV says is so important. Both sides have to give up ego, being "right", and their pride for any solutions to ever happen. So let it go, people!! When we get old, will we look back and say that we were open minded and accepted others for being different? Or will we look back and regret all the anger we had because our egos and pride were too precious to mess with? And where do egos and pride get us anyway in the long run? A lot of disconnection from other people, a lot of unhappiness, and a lot of war.
Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.
1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. 2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. 3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. 4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. 5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. 6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. 7. International forces on the borders. 8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. 9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. 10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.
Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?
You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.
Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"
This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.
Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.
I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
Precisely the reason there will always be fighting. That's why what EV says is so important. Both sides have to give up ego, being "right", and their pride for any solutions to ever happen. So let it go, people!! When we get old, will we look back and say that we were open minded and accepted others for being different? Or will we look back and regret all the anger we had because our egos and pride were too precious to mess with? And where do egos and pride get us anyway in the long run? A lot of disconnection from other people, a lot of unhappiness, and a lot of war.
When we get old we will still be debating this same topic , the killing of eachother will never stop in that region ever .....
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
Precisely the reason there will always be fighting. That's why what EV says is so important. Both sides have to give up ego, being "right", and their pride for any solutions to ever happen. So let it go, people!! When we get old, will we look back and say that we were open minded and accepted others for being different? Or will we look back and regret all the anger we had because our egos and pride were too precious to mess with? And where do egos and pride get us anyway in the long run? A lot of disconnection from other people, a lot of unhappiness, and a lot of war.
When we get old we will still be debating this same topic , the killing of eachother will never stop in that region ever .....
Only if we learn nothing from age. Wisdom that the old can't give away. Things like letting go of being right, actually hearing each other out rather than being small minded and closed minded, keeping the walls of ego up from each other when we could be learning from each other rather than fighting…
So you don't think we will change from our small-mindedness? Because I believe in humanity, and life long learning from others and other cultures, seeing big picture rather than sinking in details and insisting on being right on everything all the time. People here, on this forums, spending their time arguing; not changing, stuck in their ways, angry… Yes, those people will still be debating the same topic, those who refuse to grow and see that peace is the answer, not the need to be proud.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
Precisely the reason there will always be fighting. That's why what EV says is so important. Both sides have to give up ego, being "right", and their pride for any solutions to ever happen. So let it go, people!! When we get old, will we look back and say that we were open minded and accepted others for being different? Or will we look back and regret all the anger we had because our egos and pride were too precious to mess with? And where do egos and pride get us anyway in the long run? A lot of disconnection from other people, a lot of unhappiness, and a lot of war.
When we get old we will still be debating this same topic , the killing of eachother will never stop in that region ever .....
Only if we learn nothing from age. Wisdom that the old can't give away. Things like letting go of being right, not hearing each other out, keeping the walls of ego up from each other when we could be learning from each other rather than fighting...
Well put. Jose, with all due respect, the only certainty is that if the prevalent opinion is that the killing will never stop - then the killing will never stop. It is our moral imperative to do what we can to preserve life, treasure it, and enhance it.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
Precisely the reason there will always be fighting. That's why what EV says is so important. Both sides have to give up ego, being "right", and their pride for any solutions to ever happen. So let it go, people!! When we get old, will we look back and say that we were open minded and accepted others for being different? Or will we look back and regret all the anger we had because our egos and pride were too precious to mess with? And where do egos and pride get us anyway in the long run? A lot of disconnection from other people, a lot of unhappiness, and a lot of war.
When we get old we will still be debating this same topic , the killing of eachother will never stop in that region ever .....
Only if we learn nothing from age. Wisdom that the old can't give away. Things like letting go of being right, not hearing each other out, keeping the walls of ego up from each other when we could be learning from each other rather than fighting...
Well put. Jose, with all due respect, the only certainty is that if the prevalent opinion is that the killing will never stop - then the killing will never stop. It is our moral imperative to do what we can to preserve life, treasure it, and enhance it.
How long has this conflict been raging ? the people that were young when this stated are now old men and still not Peace , they can't even look at eachother with out a look of disgust ....
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
Precisely the reason there will always be fighting. That's why what EV says is so important. Both sides have to give up ego, being "right", and their pride for any solutions to ever happen. So let it go, people!! When we get old, will we look back and say that we were open minded and accepted others for being different? Or will we look back and regret all the anger we had because our egos and pride were too precious to mess with? And where do egos and pride get us anyway in the long run? A lot of disconnection from other people, a lot of unhappiness, and a lot of war.
When we get old we will still be debating this same topic , the killing of eachother will never stop in that region ever .....
Only if we learn nothing from age. Wisdom that the old can't give away. Things like letting go of being right, actually hearing each other out rather than being small minded and closed minded, keeping the walls of ego up from each other when we could be learning from each other rather than fighting…
So you don't think we will change from our small-mindedness? Because I believe in humanity, and life long learning from others and other cultures, seeing big picture rather than sinking in details and insisting on being right on everything all the time. People here, on this forums, spending their time arguing; not changing, stuck in their ways, angry… Yes, those people will still be debating the same topic, those who refuse to grow and see that peace is the answer, not the need to be proud.
I'm with you on this the difference is that you have confidence in humanity and i don't ....
I'm with you on this the difference is that you have confidence in humanity and i don't ....
And that's your biggest downfall.
Take it from me, who's lucky to be alive, let alone walking and still have the use of both arms and hands (my right arm was supposed to be amputated): we are very lucky to be here, very lucky to be healthy and live in a 1st world country. And frankly, although I am now healed from my disabilities, the only real disability anyone anywhere truly has, is ATTITUDE. I find that everyone who has never been through tough times have the worst attitudes of all. (not speaking for you, Jose, of course…) Just saying… Keep that attitude that humanity sucks and your life will never see joy.
I'm with you on this the difference is that you have confidence in humanity and i don't ....
And that's your biggest downfall.
Take it from me, who's lucky to be alive, let alone walking and still have the use of both arms and hands (my right arm was supposed to be amputated): we are very lucky to be here, very lucky to be healthy and live in a 1st world country. And frankly, although I am now healed from my disabilities, the only real disability anyone anywhere truly has, is ATTITUDE. I find that everyone who has never been through tough times have the worst attitudes of all. (not speaking for you, Jose, of course…) Just saying… Keep that attitude that humanity sucks and your life will never see joy.
I agree except the part of me not enjoying my life , i'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams and have a great life ....In regards to the Middle east conflict i believe some major catastrophic event would have to happen or a miracle for the two sides to come to an agreement and to agree to live side by side ...All those kids that had their parents brothers sisters uncles cousins killed will harbor hatred for ever that hatred will be hard to succumb anytime soon ....I work in a trauma level 1 hospital i see good being done everysingle day by people of all different Religions, cultures, when i'm here i see what humans are capable of doing .......i believe in what your saying just not sure people who are going thru whats happening there can do what you believe in, i hope to be proven wrong i really do ....
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,983
So good to see great posts here that encourage peace, learning how to promote peace as we age and gain wisdom, changing our thinking to view peace as possible. Very encouraging. Kudos!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So good to see great posts here that encourage peace, learning how to promote peace as we age and gain wisdom, changing our thinking to view peace as possible. Very encouraging. Kudos!
As much as I want to believe in peace, at this point I just want it to stop. This bloodshed has to stop. The pics are insane. The stories are horror movies waiting to be made. When are we gonna evolve as a species. It's 2014 and this is STILL happening on this little tiny fucken planet we're sharing together. I just dnt get it. I dnt understand. Why, why does shit like this STILL happen? Can u imagine if any of us were born on that part of the desert? What makes us better then them? Because we were LUCKY enough to born in countries that actually are sovereign? That actually have borders and have been there for centuries? 1.5 million people who we're unlucky enough to be born on a land in a desert where no one with power cares.
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
edited July 2014
Hey! Took a shitload of pages to get here.
With the understanding that the heart usually speaks first, I wish that anger (and in some cases, hate at the worst and heat of the moment least) would take a back-seat to honest attempts at meetings of the mind.
Insults, snarkiness and scolding dull much I'd otherwise consider.
If it can't be done in this little microcosm, how can it be expected to occur in the larger one?
Post edited by hedonist on
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,983
With the understanding that the heart usually speaks first, I wish that anger (and in some cases, hate at the worst and heat of the moment least) would take a back-seat to honest attempts at meetings of the mind.
Insults, snarkiness and scolding dull much I'd otherwise consider.
If it can't be done in this little microcosm, how can it be expected to occur in the larger one?
That is so completely, perfectly, fuckingly absolutely totally true and well said. I truly hope this is what we choose to do here.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I believe even more that we would all do even better by promoting peace.
And you don't think that those people calling for an end to the occupation, and for a peaceful settlement in accordance with the international consensus, are promoting peace?
Obviously the Israelis and the Palestinians need to do something.
Once again, you pretend that this is a case of two sides on an equal footing, with equal responsibility for the conflict, thereby completely igmoring reality.
International law is perfectly clear on what needs to be done. And a peaceful settlement under the terms of international law has already been agreed upon by the whole World, including the Palestinians. But it's rejected by Israel and the U.S, and the U.S continues vetoing a peaceful settlement at the U.N every year.
Comments
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I don't believe I've ever seen anyone be neutral on the subject. EV certainly isn't. FYI, taking one side 100% and neutrality aren't the only two options.
Do you think it's going to stop by you plastering a message board with repetitive posts about it?
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
So you don't think we will change from our small-mindedness? Because I believe in humanity, and life long learning from others and other cultures, seeing big picture rather than sinking in details and insisting on being right on everything all the time. People here, on this forums, spending their time arguing; not changing, stuck in their ways, angry… Yes, those people will still be debating the same topic, those who refuse to grow and see that peace is the answer, not the need to be proud.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Take it from me, who's lucky to be alive, let alone walking and still have the use of both arms and hands (my right arm was supposed to be amputated): we are very lucky to be here, very lucky to be healthy and live in a 1st world country. And frankly, although I am now healed from my disabilities, the only real disability anyone anywhere truly has, is ATTITUDE. I find that everyone who has never been through tough times have the worst attitudes of all. (not speaking for you, Jose, of course…) Just saying… Keep that attitude that humanity sucks and your life will never see joy.
With the understanding that the heart usually speaks first, I wish that anger (and in some cases, hate at the worst and heat of the moment least) would take a back-seat to honest attempts at meetings of the mind.
Insults, snarkiness and scolding dull much I'd otherwise consider.
If it can't be done in this little microcosm, how can it be expected to occur in the larger one?
What do you think they're doing then?
International law is perfectly clear on what needs to be done. And a peaceful settlement under the terms of international law has already been agreed upon by the whole World, including the Palestinians. But it's rejected by Israel and the U.S, and the U.S continues vetoing a peaceful settlement at the U.N every year.
That's the problem.