"With about a dozen assorted ongoing conflicts in the news everyday"
That is probably an understatement. The situation in Gaza is an ongoing tragedy and a disgrace, but it remains but one conflict in a series on this planet. If we insist on making what Eddie said pertain only to Gaza we are at best missing and at worst perverting his point. Too many conflicts and too much war. Too many warlords and too many war profiteers. Too many innocents killed, and too much blood money changing hands.
It needs to stop. All of it.
Are you still pretending that he wasn't talking about Israel-Palestine in Milton Keynes? Really? 'We don't give you our tax dollars to drop bombs on babies'.
'Get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to you....', e.t.c.
"With about a dozen assorted ongoing conflicts in the news everyday"
That is probably an understatement. The situation in Gaza is an ongoing tragedy and a disgrace, but it remains but one conflict in a series on this planet. If we insist on making what Eddie said pertain only to Gaza we are at best missing and at worst perverting his point. Too many conflicts and too much war. Too many warlords and too many war profiteers. Too many innocents killed, and too much blood money changing hands.
It needs to stop. All of it.
Are you still pretending that he wasn't talking about Israel-Palestine in Milton Keynes? Really? 'We don't give you our tax dollars to drop bombs on babies'.
'Get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to you....', e.t.c.
Righteo.
As I have said before, I don't believe he was talking exclusively about Israel and/or Palestine. His point was larger than that.
Byrnzie, keep posting the articles...it's exactly that sort of negative remark by the other guy telling you what you can/cannot post thats whats wrong with all this....
Maybe you and Byrnzie didn't read the entire thread, but it's supposed to be above the anger and the in-fighting...
Byrnzie, keep posting the articles...it's exactly that sort of negative remark by the other guy telling you what you can/cannot post thats whats wrong with all this....
Yeah, or maybe we should follow his/her advice and just bury our heads in the sand?
(Though as far as I know, talking about peace and love and flower arranging never solved any conflicts in the World. I might be wrong about this, but I'm under the impression that speaking out, protesting, demonstrating, petitioning, e.t.c, is what works to change things. But like I say, I know nothing. How was the Apartheid regime in South Africa brought down? Did people sing John Lennon's 'Imagine' in the direction of that country?).
Yeah, I'm cynical, and angry...and tired.
Night night.
And how's that working for you?
Call me crazy, but arguing with passion on a band website forum doesn't get one very far in the realm of progress…. It just makes one angrier.
"With about a dozen assorted ongoing conflicts in the news everyday"
That is probably an understatement. The situation in Gaza is an ongoing tragedy and a disgrace, but it remains but one conflict in a series on this planet. If we insist on making what Eddie said pertain only to Gaza we are at best missing and at worst perverting his point. Too many conflicts and too much war. Too many warlords and too many war profiteers. Too many innocents killed, and too much blood money changing hands.
It needs to stop. All of it.
Are you still pretending that he wasn't talking about Israel-Palestine in Milton Keynes? Really? 'We don't give you our tax dollars to drop bombs on babies'.
'Get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to you....', e.t.c.
Righteo.
As I have said before, I don't believe he was talking exclusively about Israel and/or Palestine. His point was larger than that.
I agree, although it is easy to see the connection. It's almost as if that when you are bogged down in details involving sides and whatnot, in seeing the big picture which Eddie was talking about, it takes much more effort to see things from that different perspective. Especially when you can't remove yourself from the anger consuming you.
Byrnzie, keep posting the articles...it's exactly that sort of negative remark by the other guy telling you what you can/cannot post thats whats wrong with all this....
Maybe you and Byrnzie didn't read the entire thread, but it's supposed to be above the anger and the in-fighting...
Exactly. This is ultimate irony- a thread that is supposed to be about being anti-war/pro peace that continues to be about anger and bloodshed. Instead of talking about peace we get one photo after another of dead babies and shit. Not that that isn't important. Not that we shouldn't care. But that's not where this thread started- that's not what this thread is about. And it's certainly not about us fighting with each other.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
To see flags of so many different nations, and to have these huge crowds gathered peacefully and joyfully is the exact inspiration behind the words I felt the need to emphatically relay.
to make a plea for more peace in the world
The majority of humans on this planet are more consumed by the pursuit of love, health, family, food and shelter than any kind of war.
We must be capable of resolving conflicts without bloodshed.
I do know we are better off when we reach out to each other.
Thank you, Ed.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.
1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. 2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. 3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. 4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. 5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. 6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. 7. International forces on the borders. 8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. 9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. 10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.
Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?
You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.
Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"
This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.
Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.
I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.
I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.
Yeah, it's strange that witnessing men, women, children and babies slaughtered by racists should make me angry.
There must be something wrong with me.
So be angry then. Others are too, you know. Maybe not for your specific reasons - that can't be so difficult to get.
For whatever it's worth...maybe ease up on taking that anger out on the people you're discussing this with right here.
The only people I get angry with are those who try and excuse and justify the massacre, or with people who try and label me as a racist - PJ Soul, BS44325
So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.
When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!
Take a second to think about this before you respond as I am sure you will. As I said earlier...criticism of the State of Israel is perfectly justifiable. I absolutely defend freedom of all speech. It is not a deflection though to ask for those who seek justice for the Palestinian people to denounce the jew hatred in their midst.
is this actually making anyone else sick? like im having trouble sleeping...feeling guilty for enjoyin a walk with my dog...its so hard that we can go about our day to day while this is happenning..its totally f*cked up
Yes this it's sickening that the world is just standing around doing nada to help fucking unreal ....
Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.
1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. 2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. 3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. 4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. 5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. 6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. 7. International forces on the borders. 8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. 9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. 10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.
Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?
You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.
Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"
This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.
Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.
I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.
I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.
Yeah, it's strange that witnessing men, women, children and babies slaughtered by racists should make me angry.
There must be something wrong with me.
So be angry then. Others are too, you know. Maybe not for your specific reasons - that can't be so difficult to get.
For whatever it's worth...maybe ease up on taking that anger out on the people you're discussing this with right here.
The only people I get angry with are those who try and excuse and justify the massacre, or with people who try and label me as a racist - PJ Soul, BS44325
So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.
When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!
Take a second to think about this before you respond as I am sure you will. As I said earlier...criticism of the State of Israel is perfectly justifiable. I absolutely defend freedom of all speech. It is not a deflection though to ask for those who seek justice for the Palestinian people to denounce the jew hatred in their midst.
I've had my share of heated exchanges with Badbrains.Although we don't see eye to eye on many issues,keeping things fair he has not been a Rascist.He is passionate about his cause and is pretty much out front with his thinking,but I wouldn't confuse his delivery with hatred.
Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.
1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. 2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. 3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. 4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. 5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. 6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. 7. International forces on the borders. 8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. 9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. 10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.
Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?
You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.
Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"
This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.
Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.
I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.
I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.
Yeah, it's strange that witnessing men, women, children and babies slaughtered by racists should make me angry.
There must be something wrong with me.
So be angry then. Others are too, you know. Maybe not for your specific reasons - that can't be so difficult to get.
For whatever it's worth...maybe ease up on taking that anger out on the people you're discussing this with right here.
The only people I get angry with are those who try and excuse and justify the massacre, or with people who try and label me as a racist - PJ Soul, BS44325
So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.
When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!
Take a second to think about this before you respond as I am sure you will. As I said earlier...criticism of the State of Israel is perfectly justifiable. I absolutely defend freedom of all speech. It is not a deflection though to ask for those who seek justice for the Palestinian people to denounce the jew hatred in their midst.
I've had my share of heated exchanges with Badbrains.Although we don't see eye to eye on many issues,keeping things fair he has not been a Rascist.He is passionate about his cause and is pretty much out front with his thinking,but I wouldn't confuse his delivery with hatred.
Ya, that got me to, wtf? I'm a racist? Even RR sees I'm not and we've gotten into it. Hey RR got to thank u for this. Def threw me for a loop. I appreciate it man.
is this actually making anyone else sick? like im having trouble sleeping...feeling guilty for enjoyin a walk with my dog...its so hard that we can go about our day to day while this is happenning..its totally f*cked up
Yes this it's sickening that the world is just standing around doing nada to help fucking unreal ....
No doubt, feel like I'm self polluting myself with this but I keep telling myself that it has to be said. People have to know what's going on. And then I see how nothing is getting done and the shit feeling comes roaring back.
BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.
The global population hates those who bring death inherently. The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly. The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF. The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.
It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I would agree that anger towards Israelis is completely understandable. If you want to carry that forward to Jews worldwide, based on public displays and blind support of Israel's actions such as we have seen, that too I can understand. But racism? That is a bridge too far for me. Racism is not understandable at this or any other time.
Racism against Muslims after 9/11 was not understandable. It was deplorable and shameful, and it remains so today. Let us keep a little bit of perspective.
With all that said I will repeat what I said a few days ago: I wish charges of antisemitism and hasbara both could be left out of the conversation. I don't believe I have seen a clear example of either anywhere in these threads.
Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.
1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. 2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. 3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. 4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. 5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. 6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. 7. International forces on the borders. 8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. 9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. 10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.
Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?
You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.
Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"
This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.
Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.
I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.
Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.
I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.
I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.
Yeah, it's strange that witnessing men, women, children and babies slaughtered by racists should make me angry.
There must be something wrong with me.
So be angry then. Others are too, you know. Maybe not for your specific reasons - that can't be so difficult to get.
For whatever it's worth...maybe ease up on taking that anger out on the people you're discussing this with right here.
The only people I get angry with are those who try and excuse and justify the massacre, or with people who try and label me as a racist - PJ Soul, BS44325
So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.
When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!
Take a second to think about this before you respond as I am sure you will. As I said earlier...criticism of the State of Israel is perfectly justifiable. I absolutely defend freedom of all speech. It is not a deflection though to ask for those who seek justice for the Palestinian people to denounce the jew hatred in their midst.
I've had my share of heated exchanges with Badbrains.Although we don't see eye to eye on many issues,keeping things fair he has not been a Rascist.He is passionate about his cause and is pretty much out front with his thinking,but I wouldn't confuse his delivery with hatred.
Ya, that got me to, wtf? I'm a racist? Even RR sees I'm not and we've gotten into it. Hey RR got to thank u for this. Def threw me for a loop. I appreciate it man.
Its never been personal BB ,I told you that.And it's important that everyone at least keep it from getting that way.These are the same people we stand together with at a PJ concerts for fuck sakeYou know the ones who hold our spots on the rail and go on beer runs and have each others back.Like we are all one big dysfunctional family.We just has issues that we see from different points of view sometimes.
Why would u hit the media building where ALL the international media offices are? Why target them? I think I mite have an idea why. So let's see, hospitals, schools, media buildings, kids playing on the beach, kids playing in parks on "their" Christmas, horses, donkeys, cows, did I forget something? What ISNT a target for the idf?
Why would u hit the media building where ALL the international media offices are? Why target them? I think I mite have an idea why. So let's see, hospitals, schools, media buildings, kids playing on the beach, kids playing in parks on "their" Christmas, horses, donkeys, cows, did I forget something? What ISNT a target for the idf?
BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.
The global population hates those who bring death inherently. The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly. The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF. The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.
It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.
I have to add that along with this scenario you present you have to take into account of how many young Palestinian kids will be filled with hate from this event going forward you can't make kids not hate once they have experienced the gross negligence for life like we have witnessed this past few weeks , i don't see how they get passed this i'm sick just thinking about how those young kids feel right now filled with hate ...this is so sad
BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.
The global population hates those who bring death inherently. The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly. The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF. The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.
It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.
I have to add that along with this scenario you present you have to take into account of how many young Palestinian kids will be filled with hate from this event going forward you can't make kids not hate once they have experienced the gross negligence for life like we have witnessed this past few weeks , i don't see how they get passed this i'm sick just thinking about how those young kids feel right now filled with hate ...this is so sad
Jose, my friend, hate begets hate begets hate, and the cycle continues. To anyone who supports peace in the region - I am so, so sorry for not getting involved sooner: as a privileged human being living in a safe zone, I am beyond ashamed of that. Religion doesn't matter. Nationality doesn't matter. Now is the time for global patriotism, where we protect our own.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.
The global population hates those who bring death inherently. The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly. The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF. The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.
It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.
I have to add that along with this scenario you present you have to take into account of how many young Palestinian kids will be filled with hate from this event going forward you can't make kids not hate once they have experienced the gross negligence for life like we have witnessed this past few weeks , i don't see how they get passed this i'm sick just thinking about how those young kids feel right now filled with hate ...this is so sad
Exactly, and don't they have think tanks there? Doesn't EVERY government have them? Didn't they think this would be the outcome, more anger and hatred towards "Israel?" Killing an entire family except 1 son, what do you think is gonna happen to that son? Do you think he's gonna hand out dates during holidays?
Why would u hit the media building where ALL the international media offices are? Why target them? I think I mite have an idea why. So let's see, hospitals, schools, media buildings, kids playing on the beach, kids playing in parks on "their" Christmas, horses, donkeys, cows, did I forget something? What ISNT a target for the idf?
So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.
People are free to make up their own minds based on the facts. Either the fact of 86% of Israeli's supporting the current massacre, or the fact of Israeli's in the streets cheering the murder of Palestinian children.
When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!
Looks like your English comprehension skills aren't up to scratch? Do you know the meaning of the word 'understandable'?
BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.
The global population hates those who bring death inherently. The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly. The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF. The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.
It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.
Are you gonna 'out' benjs as a racist now too, BS44325?
Racism is not understandable at this or any other time.
Racism against Muslims after 9/11 was not understandable. It was deplorable and shameful, and it remains so today. Let us keep a little bit of perspective.
Yes it is. It's not acceptable, but it's understandable. Whilst the Israeli's are dropping bombs on schools, hospitals, and children's playgrounds it's understandable that this will inspire acts of racism against Jews. Therefore, if Jews really wish to attack the root causes of racism towards Jews, then one of the things they can do is contribute to trying to end the illegal occupation and all of it's attendant violence.
BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.
The global population hates those who bring death inherently. The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly. The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF. The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.
It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.
Are you gonna 'out' benjs as a racist now too, BS44325?
He'd have to "out" him as a self hating jew, which Ben is clearly NOT. He may eat swine, but that's about it.....
BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.
The global population hates those who bring death inherently. The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly. The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF. The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.
It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.
Are you gonna 'out' benjs as a racist now too, BS44325?
He'd have to "out" him as a self hating jew, which Ben is clearly NOT. He may eat swine, but that's about it.....
I'm a human being born to Jewish parents, but only half of that statement matters.
But seriously... You don't know what you're missing, man (in regards to the swine )
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I would agree that anger towards Israelis is completely understandable. If you want to carry that forward to Jews worldwide, based on public displays and blind support of Israel's actions such as we have seen, that too I can understand. But racism? That is a bridge too far for me. Racism is not understandable at this or any other time.
Racism against Muslims after 9/11 was not understandable. It was deplorable and shameful, and it remains so today. Let us keep a little bit of perspective.
With all that said I will repeat what I said a few days ago: I wish charges of antisemitism and hasbara both could be left out of the conversation. I don't believe I have seen a clear example of either anywhere in these threads.
Hi JimmyV,
I have some major issues with your post here. First and foremost is the inability to distinguish between "acceptable" and "understandable". But that point has been made by others, so I will not focus on that. My second major contention is your comparison of anti-semitism due to Israel's actions, with racism against Muslims following 9/11. The reason for this is that you are acting as though we live in a vacuum where all things are constant, all sides are equal, and there exists no power dynamic. This is not just you, so I apologize for focusing on my response on here to you, because many people here are committing this mistake.
You and others on here, from what I've skimmed, have mistakenly emphasized the "both sides" argument. I personally view this equivocation as minimizing the suffering of the Palestinians who live under a brutal Israeli occupation, and it actually is part of the "blame the victim" mentality that has plagued third party viewers of conflicts for far too long now.
Of course, despite how I feel about this, I understand where you're coming from with that mentality, but I do find it unacceptable. And I understand the worry about anti-semitism, because it is always a concern when people spout off intolerant views, which I concede some (few) pro-Palestinian voices hold. But from the way I read history, it is clear that intolerance that comes from a place of power (in which it can actually carry out ethnic cleansing, genocide, institute apartheid and so on) and intolerance that comes from a place of consistent victimization (which is what Palestinians, as the occupied, ethnically cleansed people are) are two very different things. Jews who lived under the Nazi Holocaust, African Americans who lived through slavery and Jim Crow, Blacks in South Africa and Irish Catholics all probably had some nasty things to say about their oppressors. As despicable as those views may be, because yes, they are equally racist and intolerant, they cannot be put on the same moral playing field as the racism of the US, South African, and British governments against those disenfranchised populations. This is similar to the racism Muslims faced following 9/11.
Now, what has been done here is that posters here have actually given credence to the accusation of anti-semitism, by addressing it over and over again and detracting from the main topic. It truly stuns me that when Eddie goes on a very angry anti-war rant where he specifically cites 1) crossing into land that doesn't belong to you and taking it, 2) our tax dollars being used to fund this, and 3) bombs being dropped on children, at a time when Israel's war on Gaza is the number 1 news story, and Israel is the biggest recipient of US foreign aid (over $3billion a year), and pictures of murdered Palestinian children are on display worldwide, in a territory occupied by Israel (land taken that does not belong to them), well, it truly stuns me that such an angry rant is not seen as being directly about this. I guess it's just coincidence that Eddie happened to feel angry that night while the number 1 news story was about Israel's war on Gaza.
This was a backtrack on Eddie's part by refusing to talk about Palestine. Given the backlash people get for calling Israel out for its crimes, it's "understandable" he'd do that
But unacceptable. I hope he finally comes out in support of Palestinian rights soon enough. It was the same when people were waiting for celebrities to publicly support Black South African rights in the 80s. The time for this will come soon.
Comments
'We don't give you our tax dollars to drop bombs on babies'.
'Get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to you....', e.t.c.
Righteo.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Call me crazy, but arguing with passion on a band website forum doesn't get one very far in the realm of progress…. It just makes one angrier.
Currently, I’m full of hope.
To see flags of so many different nations,
and to have these huge crowds gathered peacefully and joyfully is
the exact inspiration behind the words I felt the need to emphatically relay.
to make a plea for more peace in the world
The majority of humans on this planet are more consumed by the
pursuit of love, health, family, food and shelter than any kind of war.
We must be capable of
resolving conflicts without bloodshed.
I do know we are
better off when we reach out to each other.
Thank you, Ed.
When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!
Take a second to think about this before you respond as I am sure you will. As I said earlier...criticism of the State of Israel is perfectly justifiable. I absolutely defend freedom of all speech. It is not a deflection though to ask for those who seek justice for the Palestinian people to denounce the jew hatred in their midst.
The global population hates those who bring death inherently.
The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly.
The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF.
The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.
It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Racism against Muslims after 9/11 was not understandable. It was deplorable and shameful, and it remains so today. Let us keep a little bit of perspective.
With all that said I will repeat what I said a few days ago: I wish charges of antisemitism and hasbara both could be left out of the conversation. I don't believe I have seen a clear example of either anywhere in these threads.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Looks like your English comprehension skills aren't up to scratch? Do you know the meaning of the word 'understandable'?
But seriously... You don't know what you're missing, man (in regards to the swine
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I have some major issues with your post here. First and foremost is the inability to distinguish between "acceptable" and "understandable". But that point has been made by others, so I will not focus on that. My second major contention is your comparison of anti-semitism due to Israel's actions, with racism against Muslims following 9/11. The reason for this is that you are acting as though we live in a vacuum where all things are constant, all sides are equal, and there exists no power dynamic. This is not just you, so I apologize for focusing on my response on here to you, because many people here are committing this mistake.
You and others on here, from what I've skimmed, have mistakenly emphasized the "both sides" argument. I personally view this equivocation as minimizing the suffering of the Palestinians who live under a brutal Israeli occupation, and it actually is part of the "blame the victim" mentality that has plagued third party viewers of conflicts for far too long now.
Of course, despite how I feel about this, I understand where you're coming from with that mentality, but I do find it unacceptable. And I understand the worry about anti-semitism, because it is always a concern when people spout off intolerant views, which I concede some (few) pro-Palestinian voices hold. But from the way I read history, it is clear that intolerance that comes from a place of power (in which it can actually carry out ethnic cleansing, genocide, institute apartheid and so on) and intolerance that comes from a place of consistent victimization (which is what Palestinians, as the occupied, ethnically cleansed people are) are two very different things. Jews who lived under the Nazi Holocaust, African Americans who lived through slavery and Jim Crow, Blacks in South Africa and Irish Catholics all probably had some nasty things to say about their oppressors. As despicable as those views may be, because yes, they are equally racist and intolerant, they cannot be put on the same moral playing field as the racism of the US, South African, and British governments against those disenfranchised populations. This is similar to the racism Muslims faced following 9/11.
Now, what has been done here is that posters here have actually given credence to the accusation of anti-semitism, by addressing it over and over again and detracting from the main topic. It truly stuns me that when Eddie goes on a very angry anti-war rant where he specifically cites 1) crossing into land that doesn't belong to you and taking it, 2) our tax dollars being used to fund this, and 3) bombs being dropped on children, at a time when Israel's war on Gaza is the number 1 news story, and Israel is the biggest recipient of US foreign aid (over $3billion a year), and pictures of murdered Palestinian children are on display worldwide, in a territory occupied by Israel (land taken that does not belong to them), well, it truly stuns me that such an angry rant is not seen as being directly about this. I guess it's just coincidence that Eddie happened to feel angry that night while the number 1 news story was about Israel's war on Gaza.
This was a backtrack on Eddie's part by refusing to talk about Palestine. Given the backlash people get for calling Israel out for its crimes, it's "understandable" he'd do that
But unacceptable. I hope he finally comes out in support of Palestinian rights soon enough. It was the same when people were waiting for celebrities to publicly support Black South African rights in the 80s. The time for this will come soon.