Man, if it was genocide, belive me Israel have the means to do it in few hours if that was their purpose.. Stop with the genocide bulls. Its so so so not true that no one is takking it seriously.. Even the famos 'goldstone report' ended with goldstones regret about it.
Seriously, nobody can look dumber than claiming Israel is conducting genocide. Words actually have meaning and either you'd have to have no understanding of the word or just be really stupid to say that.
As you point out, Israel could literally destroy Gaza in its entirety in an afternoon. All civilian deaths are tragic but the fact is that the care taken by Israel to avoid civilian casualties is why the death toll so far is low considering the density of the population and the size of the operation.
You no what, you keep talking shit and talking down to people who dnt agree with what you're saying. Are you trying to be a complete asshole or are you doing it by mistake? I've gotten a few pm messages telling me not to get into with u so I dnt get suspended. I'm trying real hard. But your posts are very attacking, like you're waiting for a response so you can run and tell and get me/whoever banned. Bro, stop being an asshole and post whatever you want and be respectful. I may not agree with u and the lady from Israel, but I'm not sitting here calling u dumb or her stupid. You're doing a fine job taking care of that for us.
Thanks for the pms guys, appreciate you guys reaching out. You have no idea what your words mean to me. Again, thanks!
It would never even remotely occur to me to spend even a second getting you banned. I don't want ignorance banned. I want it out in the open where we can expose it. I am simply responding as I see fit to someone who is posting untruths and doesn't have command of the facts as it pertains to Israel. If you're going to make silly statements like Israel is conducting genocide, then you should expect a response.
See, and there u are again talking shit. Again. Hey Einstein, got news for you, just because I dnt agree with the bullshit you're spewing doesn't mean I'm ignorant or silly or whatever the fuck you want to call me. What's silly is you're sitting here trying to have a big dick contest behind the screen of a computer. People have been posting all kinds of links and they're all lies right? Everything u say is god and kosher right? We should all stop because god (you) said we are all ignorant or I'm ignorant or blah blah blah. Whatever. Get off your high holy horse and get the fuck off my back. Post whatever you want but dnt call us stupid or ignorant or whatever's clever for you. In reality, all you're doing is making yourself look like an ignorant asshole. And I dnt need to post a link for that.
I sympathize with the frustration here, I really do, but you guys are going to get this thread locked if you don't cut it out. I would be sad to see THIS thread locked. Please, if you want to call each other names and shit, please pm one another and let us keep this thread.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
It's nice to see that this thread supposedly about peace has been brought down to this debate. I guess...
Yes, exactly! And every effort to return the flow of this thread back to peace is outright ignored. Sad, very sad. If Ed were to read this thread I think that is precisely what he would say- "sad".
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
It's nice to see that this thread supposedly about peace has been brought down to this debate. I guess...
Yes, exactly! And every effort to return the flow of this thread back to peace is outright ignored. Sad, very sad. If Ed were to read this thread I think that is precisely what he would say- "sad".
On the other hand, I bet Eddie really enjoys a good debate! I think it's good that people are are talking and debating about peace, why we (or they) don't have it, what might be done to find it, etc... There is always more to learn and consider. Just keep it civil.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It's nice to see that this thread supposedly about peace has been brought down to this debate. I guess...
Yes, exactly! And every effort to return the flow of this thread back to peace is outright ignored. Sad, very sad. If Ed were to read this thread I think that is precisely what he would say- "sad".
Brian,Im beginning to think you walk the earth barefoot in long flowing robes like a mix of Yoda and the Dali lama sprinkling flower pedals and chanting peace hymns.Am I close?lol
Please move your conversation to this thread. You have no idea how damaging it is for those of us who came to this thread after reading Eddie's plea for peace, looking for love and understanding, to read your hateful exchange that is ultimately only about who is right. Do any of you have a lover? Is this how your evenings unfold? Sivan, I'm not talking about you. Your firsthand experiences have enlightened me to your pain and hardship, which we in America cannot possibly fathom. Thank you so much for your words and your courage. I hope strongly for your country's peace.
Why you who are hating feel the need to have this argument on a public forum and not take it to a PM or call each other on the phone is beyond me. You have lost sight of those around you. 10 pages of it. You have drowned Eddie's original message and any feelings of hope I have that people can live in peace. I wish I could reach across this digital space and hold you in my arms and let you know there are millions of people out here who only want to be right about one thing: LOVE.
Imagine all the people ...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
It's nice to see that this thread supposedly about peace has been brought down to this debate. I guess...
Yes, exactly! And every effort to return the flow of this thread back to peace is outright ignored. Sad, very sad. If Ed were to read this thread I think that is precisely what he would say- "sad".
Brian,Im beginning to think you walk the earth barefoot in long flowing robes like a mix of Yoda and the Dali lama sprinkling flower pedals and chanting peace hymns.Am I close?lol
Hahaha rr! That would be a sight!
No, I like to think of myself in a way Jimi Hendrix once suggested: "Instead of walking the street with, you guns and weapons, why don't we walk down the streets with, ah, electric guitars!" ... and fire off riffs of peace and love I might add. ;-)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
Please move your conversation to this thread. You have no idea how damaging it is for those of us who came to this thread after reading Eddie's plea for peace, looking for love and understanding, to read your hateful exchange that is ultimately only about who is right. Do any of you have a lover? Is this how your evenings unfold? Sivan, I'm not talking about you. Your firsthand experiences have enlightened me to your pain and hardship, which we in America cannot possibly fathom. Thank you so much for your words and your courage. I hope strongly for your country's peace.
Why you who are hating feel the need to have this argument on a public forum and not take it to a PM or call each other on the phone is beyond me. You have lost sight of those around you. 10 pages of it. You have drowned Eddie's original message and any feelings of hope I have that people can live in peace. I wish I could reach across this digital space and hold you in my arms and let you know there are millions of people out here who only want to be right about one thing: LOVE.
Imagine all the people ...
I couldn't agree more. This thread has lost what I'm guessing was Kat's original intent- to start a conversation about promoting peace and being optimistic about ending war. I share your feeling about how this conversation in this context feels damaging. If someone hands you a flower, do you throw it on the ground and pull a weed out of your pocket? Well, maybe, if it's good stuff and you share it.
Peace, people. Peace and love.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
It is good that people are starting to educate themselves and become aware of what is going on. What I don't like is that especially discussions about this conflict, no matter what original topic they stem from, always get to a point where you want to step out of the convo and just not read anything about it anymore. And if you don't take a side and just say "I'm for peace, I want love in the world, not hate and bloodshed and violence" then you get drawn into debates and people try to force you onto their side. Wars are horrible, for everybody involved. How can a plea for peace and love and understanding, even on a music forum, spawn so much aggression?
At least im crazy for all the right reasons, im for peace but piss on my tyer I will make you sorry by just letting you think you got away with it lol But I agree with ED...
Man, if it was genocide, belive me Israel have the means to do it in few hours if that was their purpose.. Stop with the genocide bulls. Its so so so not true that no one is takking it seriously.. Even the famos 'goldstone report' ended with goldstones regret about it.
Seriously, nobody can look dumber than claiming Israel is conducting genocide. Words actually have meaning and either you'd have to have no understanding of the word or just be really stupid to say that.
As you point out, Israel could literally destroy Gaza in its entirety in an afternoon. All civilian deaths are tragic but the fact is that the care taken by Israel to avoid civilian casualties is why the death toll so far is low considering the density of the population and the size of the operation.
You no what, you keep talking shit and talking down to people who dnt agree with what you're saying. Are you trying to be a complete asshole or are you doing it by mistake? I've gotten a few pm messages telling me not to get into with u so I dnt get suspended. I'm trying real hard. But your posts are very attacking, like you're waiting for a response so you can run and tell and get me/whoever banned. Bro, stop being an asshole and post whatever you want and be respectful. I may not agree with u and the lady from Israel, but I'm not sitting here calling u dumb or her stupid. You're doing a fine job taking care of that for us.
Thanks for the pms guys, appreciate you guys reaching out. You have no idea what your words mean to me. Again, thanks!
It would never even remotely occur to me to spend even a second getting you banned. I don't want ignorance banned. I want it out in the open where we can expose it. I am simply responding as I see fit to someone who is posting untruths and doesn't have command of the facts as it pertains to Israel. If you're going to make silly statements like Israel is conducting genocide, then you should expect a response.
See, and there u are again talking shit. Again. Hey Einstein, got news for you, just because I dnt agree with the bullshit you're spewing doesn't mean I'm ignorant or silly or whatever the fuck you want to call me. What's silly is you're sitting here trying to have a big dick contest behind the screen of a computer. People have been posting all kinds of links and they're all lies right? Everything u say is god and kosher right? We should all stop because god (you) said we are all ignorant or I'm ignorant or blah blah blah. Whatever. Get off your high holy horse and get the fuck off my back. Post whatever you want but dnt call us stupid or ignorant or whatever's clever for you. In reality, all you're doing is making yourself look like an ignorant asshole. And I dnt need to post a link for that.
I sympathize with the frustration here, I really do, but you guys are going to get this thread locked if you don't cut it out. I would be sad to see THIS thread locked. Please, if you want to call each other names and shit, please pm one another and let us keep this thread.
I don't see any reason to lock the thread and certainly I've provided none but if it gets locked, so be it. I may be a 10C member since 1994 but I have been also active in supporting and defending Israel since well before I ever heard of Pearl Jam. I'm sorry but there have been things said in this thread that should not be allowed to stand without response.
Please move your conversation to this thread. You have no idea how damaging it is for those of us who came to this thread after reading Eddie's plea for peace, looking for love and understanding, to read your hateful exchange that is ultimately only about who is right. Do any of you have a lover? Is this how your evenings unfold? Sivan, I'm not talking about you. Your firsthand experiences have enlightened me to your pain and hardship, which we in America cannot possibly fathom. Thank you so much for your words and your courage. I hope strongly for your country's peace.
Why you who are hating feel the need to have this argument on a public forum and not take it to a PM or call each other on the phone is beyond me. You have lost sight of those around you. 10 pages of it. You have drowned Eddie's original message and any feelings of hope I have that people can live in peace. I wish I could reach across this digital space and hold you in my arms and let you know there are millions of people out here who only want to be right about one thing: LOVE.
Please move your conversation to this thread. You have no idea how damaging it is for those of us who came to this thread after reading Eddie's plea for peace, looking for love and understanding, to read your hateful exchange that is ultimately only about who is right. Do any of you have a lover? Is this how your evenings unfold? Sivan, I'm not talking about you. Your firsthand experiences have enlightened me to your pain and hardship, which we in America cannot possibly fathom. Thank you so much for your words and your courage. I hope strongly for your country's peace.
Why you who are hating feel the need to have this argument on a public forum and not take it to a PM or call each other on the phone is beyond me. You have lost sight of those around you. 10 pages of it. You have drowned Eddie's original message and any feelings of hope I have that people can live in peace. I wish I could reach across this digital space and hold you in my arms and let you know there are millions of people out here who only want to be right about one thing: LOVE.
Leezestarr313 And if you don't take a side and just say "I'm for peace, I want love in the world, not hate and bloodshed and violence" then you get drawn into debates and people try to force you onto their side.
There is a third side: LOVE
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
edited July 2014
This is a metaphor for this thread. Starts off with great intentions and then... http://youtu.be/MPMmC0UAnj0
Leezestarr313 And if you don't take a side and just say "I'm for peace, I want love in the world, not hate and bloodshed and violence" then you get drawn into debates and people try to force you onto their side.
There is a third side: LOVE Yes And I agree with the people who shared your post.
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
I say keep the debate rolling, and in my opinion Eddie would love to see the debate. But that's just my opinion, I don't know the man. No need for anyone to get offended.
I have no problem with the debate but I do think AMT is a better place for it. Eddie's statements, particularly the second one, were an attempt to speak out about conflict in general, not Israel and Palestine in particular. I think continuing the debate here serves to co-opt that message and that is what started this controversy in the first place.
This debate is raging on AMT. In my opinion that is where it belongs. Originally I too thought it was fitting for the porch but Eddie's second statement changed my mind.
I have no problem with the debate but I do think AMT is a better place for it. Eddie's statements, particularly the second one, were an attempt to speak out about conflict in general, not Israel and Palestine in particular. I think continuing the debate here serves to co-opt that message and that is what started this controversy in the first place.
This debate is raging on AMT. In my opinion that is where it belongs. Originally I too thought it was fitting for the porch but Eddie's second statement changed my mind.
Fair enough. The tone has gotten nasty here at times, where it usually goes at AMT. Some are very passionate, which can be a good thing if cooler heads can prevail.
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
I have no problem with the debate but I do think AMT is a better place for it. Eddie's statements, particularly the second one, were an attempt to speak out about conflict in general, not Israel and Palestine in particular. I think continuing the debate here serves to co-opt that message and that is what started this controversy in the first place.
This debate is raging on AMT. In my opinion that is where it belongs. Originally I too thought it was fitting for the porch but Eddie's second statement changed my mind.
Fair enough. The tone has gotten nasty here at times, where it usually goes at AMT. Some are very passionate, which can be a good thing if cooler heads can prevail.
Passion is great. It's what drives a lot of people. Over the top name calling and cursing others out, diminishes your argument. I can make the most articulate and well spoken point in the world, but if I happen to call the other person an idiot or douche bag while doing so, it makes me no better than people on Fox news. Hate breeds hate.
It's nice to see that this thread supposedly about peace has been brought down to this debate. I guess...
Yes, exactly! And every effort to return the flow of this thread back to peace is outright ignored. Sad, very sad. If Ed were to read this thread I think that is precisely what he would say- "sad".
Brian,Im beginning to think you walk the earth barefoot in long flowing robes like a mix of Yoda and the Dali lama sprinkling flower pedals and chanting peace hymns.Am I close?lol
Hahaha rr! That would be a sight!
No, I like to think of myself in a way Jimi Hendrix once suggested: "Instead of walking the street with, you guns and weapons, why don't we walk down the streets with, ah, electric guitars!" ... and fire off riffs of peace and love I might add. ;-)
I'll bring the cowbell.
You can tell a man from what he has to say - Neil & Tim Finn
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
It's nice to see that this thread supposedly about peace has been brought down to this debate. I guess...
Yes, exactly! And every effort to return the flow of this thread back to peace is outright ignored. Sad, very sad. If Ed were to read this thread I think that is precisely what he would say- "sad".
Brian,Im beginning to think you walk the earth barefoot in long flowing robes like a mix of Yoda and the Dali lama sprinkling flower pedals and chanting peace hymns.Am I close?lol
Hahaha rr! That would be a sight!
No, I like to think of myself in a way Jimi Hendrix once suggested: "Instead of walking the street with, you guns and weapons, why don't we walk down the streets with, ah, electric guitars!" ... and fire off riffs of peace and love I might add. ;-)
I'll bring the cowbell.
Thats exactly what this situation calls for.More Cowbell !!
It's so strange that countries are either abstaining from the vote on an investigation(my own did) yet the people of those countries are all calling out for the violence to be stopped and investigations held. There's always stuff going on behind the curtain that we are never made aware of. this is the most serious case of that in a long time.
I say keep the debate rolling, and in my opinion Eddie would love to see the debate. But that's just my opinion, I don't know the man. No need for anyone to get offended.
Yes exactly it's Good Healthy debate...not to mention I can't believe anyone would be against what He said.
Israel is entitled to defend itself in response to widespread attacks by a terrorist organization and it will continue to do so.
The only right Israel has is to end the blockade of Gaza, end the illegal occupation and land-grab, and then fortify it's legal borders. That's all it has a right to do.
It has no right to commit more war crimes upon the Palestinian people.
But how about the debate be moved over to AMT and keep this one about peace and love? (the original topic)
Im finding that exact thing with pro-israelis..you cant even be 'please can we stop killing innocent children, stop waging war' without them going into a hysterical meltdown about it..it's feckin bizarre
Comments
Why you who are hating feel the need to have this argument on a public forum and not take it to a PM or call each other on the phone is beyond me. You have lost sight of those around you. 10 pages of it. You have drowned Eddie's original message and any feelings of hope I have that people can live in peace. I wish I could reach across this digital space and hold you in my arms and let you know there are millions of people out here who only want to be right about one thing: LOVE.
Imagine all the people ...
No, I like to think of myself in a way Jimi Hendrix once suggested: "Instead of walking the street with, you guns and weapons, why don't we walk down the streets with, ah, electric guitars!" ... and fire off riffs of peace and love I might add. ;-)
Why you who are hating feel the need to have this argument on a public forum and not take it to a PM or call each other on the phone is beyond me. You have lost sight of those around you. 10 pages of it. You have drowned Eddie's original message and any feelings of hope I have that people can live in peace. I wish I could reach across this digital space and hold you in my arms and let you know there are millions of people out here who only want to be right about one thing: LOVE.
Imagine all the people ...
I couldn't agree more. This thread has lost what I'm guessing was Kat's original intent- to start a conversation about promoting peace and being optimistic about ending war. I share your feeling about how this conversation in this context feels damaging. If someone hands you a flower, do you throw it on the ground and pull a weed out of your pocket? Well, maybe, if it's good stuff and you share it.
Peace, people. Peace and love.
Love one another. Be glad you can. I'm on board with this.
But I agree with ED...
Why you who are hating feel the need to have this argument on a public forum and not take it to a PM or call each other on the phone is beyond me. You have lost sight of those around you. 10 pages of it. You have drowned Eddie's original message and any feelings of hope I have that people can live in peace. I wish I could reach across this digital space and hold you in my arms and let you know there are millions of people out here who only want to be right about one thing: LOVE.
Imagine all the people ...
=D> =D>
Why you who are hating feel the need to have this argument on a public forum and not take it to a PM or call each other on the phone is beyond me. You have lost sight of those around you. 10 pages of it. You have drowned Eddie's original message and any feelings of hope I have that people can live in peace. I wish I could reach across this digital space and hold you in my arms and let you know there are millions of people out here who only want to be right about one thing: LOVE.
Imagine all the people ...
Well said.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Yes
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
This debate is raging on AMT. In my opinion that is where it belongs. Originally I too thought it was fitting for the porch but Eddie's second statement changed my mind.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
But how about the debate be moved over to AMT and keep this one about peace and love? (the original topic)
It has no right to commit more war crimes upon the Palestinian people.
Is that why Israeli Captains who murder 13 year old Palestinian schoolgirls in cold blood get promoted to the rank of Major? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2
What happened to the Israeli sniper who murdered two unarmed Palestinian teenagers at a demonstration near Ramallah in May of this year? Nothing. http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/palestinian-israeli-soldiers.html
Shit, even the killer of American peace activist Rachel Corrie got off with just a slap on the wrist.