America's Gun Violence

mcgruff10

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

Sure. I guess if you're not on the "guns are all evil" bandwagon you're not welcome here.

Topic is gun violence. As much a human failing as the means from that failing.

I swore an oath in the navy. That hasn't changed.

I asked respectfully and without judgement. Please respect that and thread integrity. It isnt too much to ask.

I understand. There should be one.

What's funny though is the anti gun people will go and stink it up and claim that "it's an open forum" and all that good stuff, no?

Mcgruff start an "enthusiast" page.

Oh and a "clip" and a "magazine" are one in the same...

no no. A clip describes cartridges held together with a strip until they are loaded into a firearm. (sks, mosin natant, k-98, springfield 1903)

A magazine on the other hand is a container that holds the cartridges. Sometimes magazines themselves are loaded with cartridges by clips. On most firearms a magazine is detachable and replaceable. a magazine has a feeding spring, a clip does not.

rgambs

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

Yeah I m the distasteful guy looking for a new gun amongst the mass of anti gunners here on this forum. It s amazing that no matter what caliber you talk about the anti gunners have a problem with them. I learned to shoot a .22 ar age 8 And it was semi automatic!!!
Yeah this thread s topic is about America s gun violence but the vast vary majority are responsible gun owners. i m not expecting to change people s opinions but There are a heck of a lot of instances where law abiding citizens use weapons to protect themselves.

I think I was 10 when I first shot a .22, I wouldn't advocate any caliber bans. I do take issue with some of the appointments and modifications...that's why I asked if it was different than a standard tube magazine .22. I had to counter your idea that .22's aren't deadly because it's just false.

yeah i'll just counter with my own words:
"Are you serious? Yeah you could definitely kill someone with it but get real. Show me some stories involving mass murders and .22's."

what appointments and modifications make a weapon more deadly? the expandable stock? a muzzle flash? scope? the slick black cosmetics instead of wood making it look oh so scary.... (whoa so deadly...)

No.
The large capacity magazines that slip in and out smooth like butter and the fore grips that make it easier to wheel and shoot in crowded areas, and the ammunition designed to pierce armor or inflict maximum damge to living beings.

mcgruff10

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

Yeah I m the distasteful guy looking for a new gun amongst the mass of anti gunners here on this forum. It s amazing that no matter what caliber you talk about the anti gunners have a problem with them. I learned to shoot a .22 ar age 8 And it was semi automatic!!!
Yeah this thread s topic is about America s gun violence but the vast vary majority are responsible gun owners. i m not expecting to change people s opinions but There are a heck of a lot of instances where law abiding citizens use weapons to protect themselves.

I think I was 10 when I first shot a .22, I wouldn't advocate any caliber bans. I do take issue with some of the appointments and modifications...that's why I asked if it was different than a standard tube magazine .22. I had to counter your idea that .22's aren't deadly because it's just false.

yeah i'll just counter with my own words:
"Are you serious? Yeah you could definitely kill someone with it but get real. Show me some stories involving mass murders and .22's."

what appointments and modifications make a weapon more deadly? the expandable stock? a muzzle flash? scope? the slick black cosmetics instead of wood making it look oh so scary.... (whoa so deadly...)

No.
The large capacity magazines that slip in and out smooth like butter and the fore grips that make it easier to wheel and shoot in crowded areas, and the ammunition designed to pierce armor or inflict maximum damge to living beings.

please provide me a link to show me armor piercing .22 lr. so fore grips are the evil enemy? please. you anti gunners take everything to the god damn extreme.

rgambs

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

Yeah I m the distasteful guy looking for a new gun amongst the mass of anti gunners here on this forum. It s amazing that no matter what caliber you talk about the anti gunners have a problem with them. I learned to shoot a .22 ar age 8 And it was semi automatic!!!
Yeah this thread s topic is about America s gun violence but the vast vary majority are responsible gun owners. i m not expecting to change people s opinions but There are a heck of a lot of instances where law abiding citizens use weapons to protect themselves.

I think I was 10 when I first shot a .22, I wouldn't advocate any caliber bans. I do take issue with some of the appointments and modifications...that's why I asked if it was different than a standard tube magazine .22. I had to counter your idea that .22's aren't deadly because it's just false.

yeah i'll just counter with my own words:
"Are you serious? Yeah you could definitely kill someone with it but get real. Show me some stories involving mass murders and .22's."

what appointments and modifications make a weapon more deadly? the expandable stock? a muzzle flash? scope? the slick black cosmetics instead of wood making it look oh so scary.... (whoa so deadly...)

No.
The large capacity magazines that slip in and out smooth like butter and the fore grips that make it easier to wheel and shoot in crowded areas, and the ammunition designed to pierce armor or inflict maximum damge to living beings.

please provide me a link to show me armor piercing .22 lr. so fore grips are the evil enemy? please. you anti gunners take everything to the god damn extreme.

I don't think it's extreme to consider curtailing the gun obsession in America.
There's no evil enemy, just a whole lot of innovation in making guns "better" which will inevitably increase killing capacity sometimes.
I'm not an anti-gunner, I have a 22lr and a P380.

mickeyrat

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

Sir, you were asked by a citizen of THIS country who simply wants to see gretaer accountability and better checks so those who SHOULDNT have access dont get access. Not too long ago we found that we were in agreement on some sensible stuff that you are largely already subject to. Personally I would go a bit further in some areas but I know its not likely to happen. Thsi thread is about death. from people who shouldnt have them.

go post in a thread specific to enthusiasts. No harm and you may find more willing to engage. IMO it would be good to see the other side and the sport of it too. Just not here. To be such a hard ass about makes it seem like you wished to troll the thread. I dotn think you should are like that, but who the fuck knows. Show some respect.

mickeyrat

earlier this week


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/02/pennsylvania-boy-shot-dead-after-somebody-knocked-on-door-cops-say/

Pennsylvania boy shot dead after somebody knocked on the door, cops say

An 11-year-old boy was gunned down and his 16-year-old brother was critically wounded when someone knocked on the door of their western Pennsylvania home and began shooting when it was answered, authorities said Monday.

Police have not said whether they have identified a motive or a suspect in the shooting, which Allegheny County police Lt. Andrew Schurman said occurred at about 8:45 p.m. Sunday in Mount Oliver. The tiny borough is surrounded by Pittsburgh on all sides.

Other family members were home at the time but were not injured, Schurman said. He did not say who answered the door.

The 11-year-old, later identified by the county medical examiner as David McIntyre, was pronounced dead at the scene.

Pittsburgh Public Schools officials said the boy was a sixth-grader at the Pittsburgh Classical Academy, a magnet school for students in sixth through eighth grade. The wounded boy's name has not been released, but school officials said he's the dead boy's brother and attended Pittsburgh Carrick High School.

"Our thoughts are with the family at this time as they deal with this tragedy," the district said in a statement. Counselors were available to help students at the dead boy's school, which planned to send home a letter to help parents develop strategies "in coping with this loss."

jnimhaoileoin

mickeyrat said:

earlier this week


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/02/pennsylvania-boy-shot-dead-after-somebody-knocked-on-door-cops-say/

Pennsylvania boy shot dead after somebody knocked on the door, cops say

An 11-year-old boy was gunned down and his 16-year-old brother was critically wounded when someone knocked on the door of their western Pennsylvania home and began shooting when it was answered, authorities said Monday.

Police have not said whether they have identified a motive or a suspect in the shooting, which Allegheny County police Lt. Andrew Schurman said occurred at about 8:45 p.m. Sunday in Mount Oliver. The tiny borough is surrounded by Pittsburgh on all sides.

Other family members were home at the time but were not injured, Schurman said. He did not say who answered the door.

The 11-year-old, later identified by the county medical examiner as David McIntyre, was pronounced dead at the scene.

Pittsburgh Public Schools officials said the boy was a sixth-grader at the Pittsburgh Classical Academy, a magnet school for students in sixth through eighth grade. The wounded boy's name has not been released, but school officials said he's the dead boy's brother and attended Pittsburgh Carrick High School.

"Our thoughts are with the family at this time as they deal with this tragedy," the district said in a statement. Counselors were available to help students at the dead boy's school, which planned to send home a letter to help parents develop strategies "in coping with this loss."

I hope further information comes to light on this case, who would shoot an 11-year-old child?

rgambs

mickeyrat said:

earlier this week


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/02/pennsylvania-boy-shot-dead-after-somebody-knocked-on-door-cops-say/

Pennsylvania boy shot dead after somebody knocked on the door, cops say

An 11-year-old boy was gunned down and his 16-year-old brother was critically wounded when someone knocked on the door of their western Pennsylvania home and began shooting when it was answered, authorities said Monday.

Police have not said whether they have identified a motive or a suspect in the shooting, which Allegheny County police Lt. Andrew Schurman said occurred at about 8:45 p.m. Sunday in Mount Oliver. The tiny borough is surrounded by Pittsburgh on all sides.

Other family members were home at the time but were not injured, Schurman said. He did not say who answered the door.

The 11-year-old, later identified by the county medical examiner as David McIntyre, was pronounced dead at the scene.

Pittsburgh Public Schools officials said the boy was a sixth-grader at the Pittsburgh Classical Academy, a magnet school for students in sixth through eighth grade. The wounded boy's name has not been released, but school officials said he's the dead boy's brother and attended Pittsburgh Carrick High School.

"Our thoughts are with the family at this time as they deal with this tragedy," the district said in a statement. Counselors were available to help students at the dead boy's school, which planned to send home a letter to help parents develop strategies "in coping with this loss."

Brutal, so hard to imagine.

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

Why not?

eddiec

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

I'm American and I've lived outside the US for about 14 years.
Guns in America are a joke and quite frankly they make us look like a laughing stock. (Not as bad as Republicans who may vote for creationists but that's another thread.)
American people were once viewed as progressive free thinking individuals (the 60's) but now are regarded as insular and clueless to what goes in the rest of the world. I think part of this is while we fly flags and drop bombs the average US citizen (military aside) hasn't seen first hand the destruction and death we cause. Except for 9/11 there hasn't been a major attack on US soil since Pearl Harbour. (By the way I'm a New Yorker and I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 so no need to lecture me). You say people don't know what it's like living in the US? You mean it's so lawless that everybody needs a gun? I really don't understand this statement. The US is probably one of a handful countries in the world where you don't need a gun. Probably only Israel has a higher police force out on the streets. I have no problem if people want to hunt and own rifles but guns have become a problem. If you can't admit that something is wrong. When the problem begins to become an epidemic then changes must be made. Undoubtedly those changes will affect citizens who would otherwise be responsible gun owners. When citizens of America, land of the free, have doubts about bringing their children to a crowded movie theatre what does that say about the state of our country?
Also, people with mental disabilities don't know they are crazy. Everybody knows or knows of somebody who seemed like a perfectly normal person that one day just killed themselves.

Bentleyspop

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

I'm American and I've lived outside the US for about 14 years.
Guns in America are a joke and quite frankly they make us look like a laughing stock. (Not as bad as Republicans who may vote for creationists but that's another thread.)
American people were once viewed as progressive free thinking individuals (the 60's) but now are regarded as insular and clueless to what goes in the rest of the world. I think part of this is while we fly flags and drop bombs the average US citizen (military aside) hasn't seen first hand the destruction and death we cause. Except for 9/11 there hasn't been a major attack on US soil since Pearl Harbour. (By the way I'm a New Yorker and I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 so no need to lecture me). You say people don't know what it's like living in the US? You mean it's so lawless that everybody needs a gun? I really don't understand this statement. The US is probably one of a handful countries in the world where you don't need a gun. Probably only Israel has a higher police force out on the streets. I have no problem if people want to hunt and own rifles but guns have become a problem. If you can't admit that something is wrong. When the problem begins to become an epidemic then changes must be made. Undoubtedly those changes will affect citizens who would otherwise be responsible gun owners. When citizens of America, land of the free, have doubts about bringing their children to a crowded movie theatre what does that say about the state of our country?
Also, people with mental disabilities don't know they are crazy. Everybody knows or knows of somebody who seemed like a perfectly normal person that one day just killed themselves.

Very well said

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Bentleyspop said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

I'm American and I've lived outside the US for about 14 years.
Guns in America are a joke and quite frankly they make us look like a laughing stock. (Not as bad as Republicans who may vote for creationists but that's another thread.)
American people were once viewed as progressive free thinking individuals (the 60's) but now are regarded as insular and clueless to what goes in the rest of the world. I think part of this is while we fly flags and drop bombs the average US citizen (military aside) hasn't seen first hand the destruction and death we cause. Except for 9/11 there hasn't been a major attack on US soil since Pearl Harbour. (By the way I'm a New Yorker and I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 so no need to lecture me). You say people don't know what it's like living in the US? You mean it's so lawless that everybody needs a gun? I really don't understand this statement. The US is probably one of a handful countries in the world where you don't need a gun. Probably only Israel has a higher police force out on the streets. I have no problem if people want to hunt and own rifles but guns have become a problem. If you can't admit that something is wrong. When the problem begins to become an epidemic then changes must be made. Undoubtedly those changes will affect citizens who would otherwise be responsible gun owners. When citizens of America, land of the free, have doubts about bringing their children to a crowded movie theatre what does that say about the state of our country?
Also, people with mental disabilities don't know they are crazy. Everybody knows or knows of somebody who seemed like a perfectly normal person that one day just killed themselves.

Very well said

Agreed.

dudeman

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

I'm American and I've lived outside the US for about 14 years.
Guns in America are a joke and quite frankly they make us look like a laughing stock. (Not as bad as Republicans who may vote for creationists but that's another thread.)
American people were once viewed as progressive free thinking individuals (the 60's) but now are regarded as insular and clueless to what goes in the rest of the world. I think part of this is while we fly flags and drop bombs the average US citizen (military aside) hasn't seen first hand the destruction and death we cause. Except for 9/11 there hasn't been a major attack on US soil since Pearl Harbour. (By the way I'm a New Yorker and I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 so no need to lecture me). You say people don't know what it's like living in the US? You mean it's so lawless that everybody needs a gun? I really don't understand this statement. The US is probably one of a handful countries in the world where you don't need a gun. Probably only Israel has a higher police force out on the streets. I have no problem if people want to hunt and own rifles but guns have become a problem. If you can't admit that something is wrong. When the problem begins to become an epidemic then changes must be made. Undoubtedly those changes will affect citizens who would otherwise be responsible gun owners. When citizens of America, land of the free, have doubts about bringing their children to a crowded movie theatre what does that say about the state of our country?
Also, people with mental disabilities don't know they are crazy. Everybody knows or knows of somebody who seemed like a perfectly normal person that one day just killed themselves.

Parts of this country are lawless enough that I feel like law-abiding citizens should have the option to defend themselves, if necessary. Some areas suffer from high violent crime rates and slow reaction emergency service response times. What are the people in those areas supposed to do while being attacked when the police are 25 minutes away? Ask their attacker to wait until backup arrives? Some people are absolutely on their own and trying to stay alive. I don't begrudge those law-abiding citizens their right to self preservation.

You are right in saying that there is a gun violence problem in the US. There is. There are a lot of people with guns that shouldn't have them. That said, there are also a lot of people with guns that are not a threat to society who simply want to be prepared to protect themselves and their families from those with sinister intentions.

PJ_Soul

You make America sound a really horrible place to live. I'm surprised people even want to immigrate there anymore if your representation of it s even close to true. Surprised you aren't all trying to be immigrants yourselves if America is such a terrifying and dangerous place.

dudeman

Only parts. Some areas are absolutely beautiful, peaceful and quiet. Others are not. That's the part of living here that makes it hard to explain the culture to others. Every state is different. Every city is different. There are vastly different demographics, wealth distribution, political leanings and standards of living everywhere you go.

Also, with the current attitude of any group of Americans toward any other groups of Americans, it doesn't seem that many people are interested in getting along. Americans have a habit of liking to say "Fuck You" to everyone else. It makes it challenging to live here at times.

tempo_n_groove

dudeman said:

Only parts. Some areas are absolutely beautiful, peaceful and quiet. Others are not. That's the part of living here that makes it hard to explain the culture to others. Every state is different. Every city is different. There are vastly different demographics, wealth distribution, political leanings and standards of living everywhere you go.

Also, with the current attitude of any group of Americans toward any other groups of Americans, it doesn't seem that many people are interested in getting along. Americans have a habit of liking to say "Fuck You" to everyone else. It makes it challenging to live here at times.

I've lived in a bunch of different states and never got that reaction, the "fuck you" part that is.

What's funny is the places where you'd most like to carry a gun you can't because of laws, lol.

Even the "bad places" you can walk around and nothing will happen to you. I would hope you have street smarts though to realize you are in a place you shouldn't be.

There are bad parts all over the world...

mickeyrat

dudeman said:

Only parts. Some areas are absolutely beautiful, peaceful and quiet. Others are not. That's the part of living here that makes it hard to explain the culture to others. Every state is different. Every city is different. There are vastly different demographics, wealth distribution, political leanings and standards of living everywhere you go.

Also, with the current attitude of any group of Americans toward any other groups of Americans, it doesn't seem that many people are interested in getting along. Americans have a habit of liking to say "Fuck You" to everyone else. It makes it challenging to live here at times.

That last paragraph is it. We have allowed or bought into being classified or grouped in an us vs them thing.

Its really just an US ALL reality.

dudeman

tempo_n_groove said:

dudeman said:

Only parts. Some areas are absolutely beautiful, peaceful and quiet. Others are not. That's the part of living here that makes it hard to explain the culture to others. Every state is different. Every city is different. There are vastly different demographics, wealth distribution, political leanings and standards of living everywhere you go.

Also, with the current attitude of any group of Americans toward any other groups of Americans, it doesn't seem that many people are interested in getting along. Americans have a habit of liking to say "Fuck You" to everyone else. It makes it challenging to live here at times.

I've lived in a bunch of different states and never got that reaction, the "fuck you" part that is.

Lucky lucky.

What's funny is the places where you'd most like to carry a gun you can't because of laws, lol.

Yup. The bad guys have all the guns in some places.

Even the "bad places" you can walk around and nothing will happen to you. I would hope you have street smarts though to realize you are in a place you shouldn't be.

Sometimes nothing will happen to you. Sometimes you might encounter someone or a group of people that want nothing more than to rob, rape or kill you. It happens.

And yes, I know to avoid places where I don't belong and may be dangerous. However, some people have to live in those places and others have to go there to do work. I used to have to go into areas with heavy gang activity for my job. I was hassled and threatened a few times. I had guns and knives pulled on me. I made it out of there without getting hurt and without having to shoot anyone.

There are bad parts all over the world...

Agreed.

PJ_Soul

dudeman said:

Only parts. Some areas are absolutely beautiful, peaceful and quiet. Others are not. That's the part of living here that makes it hard to explain the culture to others. Every state is different. Every city is different. There are vastly different demographics, wealth distribution, political leanings and standards of living everywhere you go.

Also, with the current attitude of any group of Americans toward any other groups of Americans, it doesn't seem that many people are interested in getting along. Americans have a habit of liking to say "Fuck You" to everyone else. It makes it challenging to live here at times.

I was actually being facetious. I live a half hour drive from the border. I figure I understand what America is generally like just fine, just as an American who visits Canada frequently would have a decent grasp of what it's like here. And America and Canada are the same as far as the thing you said about diverse demographics go. The USA is not a great foreign mystery to people living along its border and to people who share all the same media and pop culture and companies, etc. We get it. And the gun thing is where we part ways. Not because we don't get it. It's because we do get it and think it's idiotic. We haven't been brainwashed by fear..... to be blunt.

(But FWIW, I have never felt this "fuck you" thing you mentioned either.... perhaps it's you???)

eddiec

dudeman said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

I'm American and I've lived outside the US for about 14 years.
Guns in America are a joke and quite frankly they make us look like a laughing stock. (Not as bad as Republicans who may vote for creationists but that's another thread.)
American people were once viewed as progressive free thinking individuals (the 60's) but now are regarded as insular and clueless to what goes in the rest of the world. I think part of this is while we fly flags and drop bombs the average US citizen (military aside) hasn't seen first hand the destruction and death we cause. Except for 9/11 there hasn't been a major attack on US soil since Pearl Harbour. (By the way I'm a New Yorker and I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 so no need to lecture me). You say people don't know what it's like living in the US? You mean it's so lawless that everybody needs a gun? I really don't understand this statement. The US is probably one of a handful countries in the world where you don't need a gun. Probably only Israel has a higher police force out on the streets. I have no problem if people want to hunt and own rifles but guns have become a problem. If you can't admit that something is wrong. When the problem begins to become an epidemic then changes must be made. Undoubtedly those changes will affect citizens who would otherwise be responsible gun owners. When citizens of America, land of the free, have doubts about bringing their children to a crowded movie theatre what does that say about the state of our country?
Also, people with mental disabilities don't know they are crazy. Everybody knows or knows of somebody who seemed like a perfectly normal person that one day just killed themselves.

Parts of this country are lawless enough that I feel like law-abiding citizens should have the option to defend themselves, if necessary. Some areas suffer from high violent crime rates and slow reaction emergency service response times. What are the people in those areas supposed to do while being attacked when the police are 25 minutes away? Ask their attacker to wait until backup arrives? Some people are absolutely on their own and trying to stay alive. I don't begrudge those law-abiding citizens their right to self preservation.

You are right in saying that there is a gun violence problem in the US. There is. There are a lot of people with guns that shouldn't have them. That said, there are also a lot of people with guns that are not a threat to society who simply want to be prepared to protect themselves and their families from those with sinister intentions.

What towns, not cities, are you referring to where law abiding citizens have to protect their homes and family with armed weapons. I'm sure there are some small areas where this may be true but tell me, in what towns in America do people feel so threatened that owning a gun is the only way to keep your family safe?