Gun store incident demonstrates many gun owners mentality.
"Come and Take it"
"Don't tread on Me".
"I Don't call 911 call smith and Wesson".
As to shooting guns, yeah gives many sense of empowerment. Instant gun muscles. Unfortunately it's these exact folks that shouldn't have guns. Oh well the foolishness will continue.
This isn't a representative assessment of me or any of the people I shoot and train with.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Fuck your guns, shove them up your ass and pull the trigger. You are too fucking stupid to have kids, and damn sure not responsible for a deadl weapon. I hope you fry and rot in hell. ENOUGH IS FUCKING ENOUGH.
So I'm going to go fire some guns at a range in a couple of weeks. I figure I should know what it's like if I'm going to debate against being a gun nut. I am not into it - i feel no curiosity about what it is like to use a deadly weapon at all to be honest - but a friend convinced me I ought to try it if I feel strongly about the subject and want to speak against gun culture. I dunno... it'll be weird and TBH i feel a little guilty fornsome reason. Like I'm helping to propagate the culture. Strange. But it'll be educational, definitely. Know thine enemy, so to speak.
It's nothing special. People who love it are nuts. They have to be having Rambo fantasies or something, otherwise I don't see what the big deal is at all. I grew up shooting (Boy Scouts and with family) and it is so overrated it isn't funny.
This doesn't reflect my experiences at all. I don't have "Rambo fantasies" and I don't shoot for fun. I go to the range to develop and maintain proficiency with a tool that may one day be needed in an emergency. That's it.
You are in the minority there, everyone I know who is gun nutty is out there having phantom 'Nam flashbacks.
So I'm going to go fire some guns at a range in a couple of weeks. I figure I should know what it's like if I'm going to debate against being a gun nut. I am not into it - i feel no curiosity about what it is like to use a deadly weapon at all to be honest - but a friend convinced me I ought to try it if I feel strongly about the subject and want to speak against gun culture. I dunno... it'll be weird and TBH i feel a little guilty fornsome reason. Like I'm helping to propagate the culture. Strange. But it'll be educational, definitely. Know thine enemy, so to speak.
It's nothing special. People who love it are nuts. They have to be having Rambo fantasies or something, otherwise I don't see what the big deal is at all. I grew up shooting (Boy Scouts and with family) and it is so overrated it isn't funny.
This doesn't reflect my experiences at all. I don't have "Rambo fantasies" and I don't shoot for fun. I go to the range to develop and maintain proficiency with a tool that may one day be needed in an emergency. That's it.
You are in the minority there, everyone I know who is gun nutty is out there having phantom 'Nam flashbacks.
Agreed. Dudeman, you are one of the exceptions to the rule IMO. Also, I'm not sure I totally buy what you're saying. If you truly only did it so that you were proficient during an emergency you wouldn't need to be nearly as into it as you seem to be.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I read about this story on a gun forum earlier. You know what's interesting? They were all saying the same things as the posters here.
Specific to this incident? Or somewhat more generally?
Beginning from stand point of where we are in agreement is better than opposition isnt it?
Both. A lot of gun owners agree with much of what is greenly the outcome of our discussions about guns on AMT.
Changes should be made. Too many people who shouldn't have guns do.
Well that IS heartening. It will take more voices from that "side" of this to speak often and loudly. And perhaps force the chief advocate to modify its position somewhat, because to be honest it really seems as if the NRA no longer represent its membership but rather the manufacturers. In the end its the manufacturers that are benefiting from this debate.
Ultimately, we're all on the same side. No one likes to see innocent people killed.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
So I'm going to go fire some guns at a range in a couple of weeks. I figure I should know what it's like if I'm going to debate against being a gun nut. I am not into it - i feel no curiosity about what it is like to use a deadly weapon at all to be honest - but a friend convinced me I ought to try it if I feel strongly about the subject and want to speak against gun culture. I dunno... it'll be weird and TBH i feel a little guilty fornsome reason. Like I'm helping to propagate the culture. Strange. But it'll be educational, definitely. Know thine enemy, so to speak.
If you look at gun owners as "thine enemy" why even bother going? Gun ownership is a personal decision and if shooting makes you feel uneasy or guilty, don't do it. It's certainly not for everyone.
Did you miss the "so to speak" part in my post? It was a figurative comment. I.e. if one is going to debate something they should know everything they reasonably can about the subject. What you are saying is, to me, the equivalent of burying your head in the sand if you don't like something. I am not that kind of person.
You are admittedly reluctant, nervous and have feelings of guilt about shooting. You have already decided that it's not something you'll like and it's going to make you uncomfortable.
I wouldn't put a gun in the hand of someone that fit that description. Just saying.
Good luck, though and be safe!
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
So I'm going to go fire some guns at a range in a couple of weeks. I figure I should know what it's like if I'm going to debate against being a gun nut. I am not into it - i feel no curiosity about what it is like to use a deadly weapon at all to be honest - but a friend convinced me I ought to try it if I feel strongly about the subject and want to speak against gun culture. I dunno... it'll be weird and TBH i feel a little guilty fornsome reason. Like I'm helping to propagate the culture. Strange. But it'll be educational, definitely. Know thine enemy, so to speak.
If you look at gun owners as "thine enemy" why even bother going? Gun ownership is a personal decision and if shooting makes you feel uneasy or guilty, don't do it. It's certainly not for everyone.
But its better to learn first hand what some of the appeal may be to form a more knowledgable opinion , isnt it?
I'm against murder but I'm not about to go kill someone just to find out what it's like.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
So I'm going to go fire some guns at a range in a couple of weeks. I figure I should know what it's like if I'm going to debate against being a gun nut. I am not into it - i feel no curiosity about what it is like to use a deadly weapon at all to be honest - but a friend convinced me I ought to try it if I feel strongly about the subject and want to speak against gun culture. I dunno... it'll be weird and TBH i feel a little guilty fornsome reason. Like I'm helping to propagate the culture. Strange. But it'll be educational, definitely. Know thine enemy, so to speak.
It's nothing special. People who love it are nuts. They have to be having Rambo fantasies or something, otherwise I don't see what the big deal is at all. I grew up shooting (Boy Scouts and with family) and it is so overrated it isn't funny.
This doesn't reflect my experiences at all. I don't have "Rambo fantasies" and I don't shoot for fun. I go to the range to develop and maintain proficiency with a tool that may one day be needed in an emergency. That's it.
You are in the minority there, everyone I know who is gun nutty is out there having phantom 'Nam flashbacks.
Agreed. Dudeman, you are one of the exceptions to the rule IMO. Also, I'm not sure I totally buy what you're saying. If you truly only did it so that you were proficient during an emergency you wouldn't need to be nearly as into it as you seem to be.
Actually, I'm more into the debate about gun control than actually shooting. I think it's important to try to preserve the idea that gun ownership is a right for law-abiding citizens.
You are free to believe whatever you want about me or my intentions, though.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,913
So I'm going to go fire some guns at a range in a couple of weeks. I figure I should know what it's like if I'm going to debate against being a gun nut. I am not into it - i feel no curiosity about what it is like to use a deadly weapon at all to be honest - but a friend convinced me I ought to try it if I feel strongly about the subject and want to speak against gun culture. I dunno... it'll be weird and TBH i feel a little guilty fornsome reason. Like I'm helping to propagate the culture. Strange. But it'll be educational, definitely. Know thine enemy, so to speak.
If you look at gun owners as "thine enemy" why even bother going? Gun ownership is a personal decision and if shooting makes you feel uneasy or guilty, don't do it. It's certainly not for everyone.
But its better to learn first hand what some of the appeal may be to form a more knowledgable opinion , isnt it?
I'm against murder but I'm not about to go kill someone just to find out what it's like.
Ok. But to argue from a position of knowledge is far better than supposition.
Bad example though. That statement is beneath both of us andd this debate.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
So I'm going to go fire some guns at a range in a couple of weeks. I figure I should know what it's like if I'm going to debate against being a gun nut. I am not into it - i feel no curiosity about what it is like to use a deadly weapon at all to be honest - but a friend convinced me I ought to try it if I feel strongly about the subject and want to speak against gun culture. I dunno... it'll be weird and TBH i feel a little guilty fornsome reason. Like I'm helping to propagate the culture. Strange. But it'll be educational, definitely. Know thine enemy, so to speak.
If you look at gun owners as "thine enemy" why even bother going? Gun ownership is a personal decision and if shooting makes you feel uneasy or guilty, don't do it. It's certainly not for everyone.
Did you miss the "so to speak" part in my post? It was a figurative comment. I.e. if one is going to debate something they should know everything they reasonably can about the subject. What you are saying is, to me, the equivalent of burying your head in the sand if you don't like something. I am not that kind of person.
You are admittedly reluctant, nervous and have feelings of guilt about shooting. You have already decided that it's not something you'll like and it's going to make you uncomfortable.
I wouldn't put a gun in the hand of someone that fit that description. Just saying.
Good luck, though and be safe!
I am not following you. I am doing it so that I have that learning experience. Yes, I'm reluctant, nervous, and feel a bit of guilt. But like a normal, level-headed person, lol. Not like a mental case. I am a responsible, intelligent person who is perfectly capable of learning to use a gun no matter what my feelings are about it. I am not one to avoid an experience just because I'm not into it. Not if there is a purpose to doing it, and there is in this case.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
So I'm going to go fire some guns at a range in a couple of weeks. I figure I should know what it's like if I'm going to debate against being a gun nut. I am not into it - i feel no curiosity about what it is like to use a deadly weapon at all to be honest - but a friend convinced me I ought to try it if I feel strongly about the subject and want to speak against gun culture. I dunno... it'll be weird and TBH i feel a little guilty fornsome reason. Like I'm helping to propagate the culture. Strange. But it'll be educational, definitely. Know thine enemy, so to speak.
If you look at gun owners as "thine enemy" why even bother going? Gun ownership is a personal decision and if shooting makes you feel uneasy or guilty, don't do it. It's certainly not for everyone.
But its better to learn first hand what some of the appeal may be to form a more knowledgable opinion , isnt it?
I'm against murder but I'm not about to go kill someone just to find out what it's like.
That is not the same thing, and you know it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Of course it's not the same thing. It's an exaggerated parallel.
You plan to take something that you feel in your heart is wrong and do it for the sake of the experience.
That's cool with me.
Wow, you are being very dramatic, lol. I'm slightly uncomfortable. This is not a deep moral dilemma. I don't feel in my heart that it's wrong at all. I feel like it might make me in particular hypocritical for even giving my money to a recreational shooting range (and i'm not even sure on that). That is where the guilt lies. Not from it "being wrong". And it's not a big enough deal not to do it. If I "feel in my heart" that something is wrong, I definitely do NOT do it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Gun store incident demonstrates many gun owners mentality.
"Come and Take it"
"Don't tread on Me".
"I Don't call 911 call smith and Wesson".
As to shooting guns, yeah gives many sense of empowerment. Instant gun muscles. Unfortunately it's these exact folks that shouldn't have guns. Oh well the foolishness will continue.
This isn't a representative assessment of me or any of the people I shoot and train with.
Gun store incident demonstrates many gun owners mentality.
"Come and Take it"
"Don't tread on Me".
"I Don't call 911 call smith and Wesson".
As to shooting guns, yeah gives many sense of empowerment. Instant gun muscles. Unfortunately it's these exact folks that shouldn't have guns. Oh well the foolishness will continue.
This isn't a representative assessment of me or any of the people I shoot and train with.
So you get no sense of empowerment? None?
Sense of empowerment? No.
I think I've been pretty clear on these boards why I decided to seek proficiency with a firearm.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Of course it's not the same thing. It's an exaggerated parallel.
You plan to take something that you feel in your heart is wrong and do it for the sake of the experience.
That's cool with me.
Wow, you are being very dramatic, lol. I'm slightly uncomfortable. This is not a deep moral dilemma. I don't feel in my heart that it's wrong at all. I feel like it might make me in particular hypocritical for even giving my money to a recreational shooting range (and i'm not even sure on that). That is where the guilt lies. Not from it "being wrong". And it's not a big enough deal not to do it. If I "feel in my heart" that something is wrong, I definitely do NOT do it.
Ok. Awesome. (Sorry for making you feel uncomfortable, BTW.)
Moving on, this is becoming an obstacle to the "Universal Background Check" system that we all pretty much agree would be a good idea and is a step in the right direction:
Of course it's not the same thing. It's an exaggerated parallel.
You plan to take something that you feel in your heart is wrong and do it for the sake of the experience.
That's cool with me.
Wow, you are being very dramatic, lol. I'm slightly uncomfortable. This is not a deep moral dilemma. I don't feel in my heart that it's wrong at all. I feel like it might make me in particular hypocritical for even giving my money to a recreational shooting range (and i'm not even sure on that). That is where the guilt lies. Not from it "being wrong". And it's not a big enough deal not to do it. If I "feel in my heart" that something is wrong, I definitely do NOT do it.
Ok. Awesome. (Sorry for making you feel uncomfortable, BTW.)
Moving on, this is becoming an obstacle to the "Universal Background Check" system that we all pretty much agree would be a good idea and is a step in the right direction:
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
the gun store should theoretically be the safest place on earth. nobody goes there except people who are proficient with the basics of how to safely use a gun.
or does this prove my point that there should be basic gun control steps taken?
and the company line....more people that are carrying, the safer it will be.
Legal concealed carry is entirely different than gun ownership. People who legally carry concealed pistols are among the most law-abiding citizens in this country. More so than law enforcement officers, actually.
yet they still manage to accidently shoot people in movie theaters and gun shows.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Of course it's not the same thing. It's an exaggerated parallel.
You plan to take something that you feel in your heart is wrong and do it for the sake of the experience.
That's cool with me.
Wow, you are being very dramatic, lol. I'm slightly uncomfortable. This is not a deep moral dilemma. I don't feel in my heart that it's wrong at all. I feel like it might make me in particular hypocritical for even giving my money to a recreational shooting range (and i'm not even sure on that). That is where the guilt lies. Not from it "being wrong". And it's not a big enough deal not to do it. If I "feel in my heart" that something is wrong, I definitely do NOT do it.
Ok. Awesome. (Sorry for making you feel uncomfortable, BTW.)
Moving on, this is becoming an obstacle to the "Universal Background Check" system that we all pretty much agree would be a good idea and is a step in the right direction:
Whoops. Scratch that gun range idea. I just found out that the ammo is extra and RIDICULOUSLY expensive. No way am I paying $65 extra or whatever (plus $35 for the instruction, entrance, etc) just for enough ammo to make the trip worth it. What a stupid waste of money, lol. My friend is disappointed, but I'm just not into it enough to spend $100. I guess I will indeed go the rest of my life never firing a gun (barring a zombie apocalypse). So is this a major difference between Canada and the US? How much does ammo actually cost in the US? I know some support raising the prices, so that makes me assume it's super cheap (or at least relatively). Here are the ammo prices at this Canadian gun range. How does that compare to the US (keeping in mind the current exchange rate is fairly irrelevant here - the prices haven't changed recently and the dollar only very recently took a tumble - last year it was about the same in USD)?
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Whoops. Scratch that gun range idea. I just found out that the ammo is extra and RIDICULOUSLY expensive. No way am I paying $65 extra or whatever (plus $35 for the instruction, entrance, etc) just for enough ammo to make the trip worth it. What a stupid waste of money, lol. My friend is disappointed, but I'm just not into it enough to spend $100. I guess I will indeed go the rest of my life never firing a gun (barring a zombie apocalypse). So is this a major difference between Canada and the US? How much does ammo actually cost in the US? I know some support raising the prices, so that makes me assume it's super cheap (or at least relatively). Here are the ammo prices at this Canadian gun range. How does that compare to the US (keeping in mind the current exchange rate is fairly irrelevant here - the prices haven't changed recently and the dollar only very recently took a tumble - last year it was about the same in USD)?
U.S. prices are at least half of those prices if not more.
Interesting. Well I guess perhaps a point has made. I was dissuaded from using a gun because of high ammo prices (despite my friend trying to persuade me. He even offered to pay for my ammo, but I refused because just the principle of paying that much for shooting little bits of metal at a target seems a ridiculous waste of money). And no, it wasn't just an easy excuse to not go for me, lol. So it seems like dramatically raising ammo prices in the US really might help to calm the gun culture down there over time.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,913
Is it required to purchase ammo from the range? Here or there.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Is it required to purchase ammo from the range? Here or there.
They will not allow outside ammo at all. I have no idea when it comes to other ranges though. Most ranges seem to be for members only. But anyway, here is a random canadian ammo site with prices.... seems pretty expensive to just purchase privately too. Seems to average at least $1/bullet. https://www.canadaammo.com/product/byCategory/handgun-ammo/
Those prices are a little high but it all depends on the particular ammo.
Generally speaking, full metal jacket (FMJ) loads are intended for practice and shooting paper targets. A box of 50 9mm FMJ's sells for between $11.00 and $16.00 depending on manufacturer and the retailer mark up around here.
Jacketed hollow-point ammo (JHP) is typically designed for hunting and self-defense. It's not uncommon to see 9mm JHP ammo from premium manufacturers sell for between $1.00 and $2.00 per round. It's usually sold in boxes of 20 or 25 rounds.
If one plans to do much shooting, especially enough to generate any real proficiency with a gun, there is a sizable financial commitment.
On the other hand, there are also those of us who load our own ammunition for practice/training purposes. It's a matter of intensive learning, patience and attention paid to the smallest detail so it's not for everyone. The benefit is that one can assemble their own loads for much less money. I developed a 9mm round that has the same trajectory and recoil impulse of expensive, self-defense ammo that costs 12.8 cents per round.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Is it required to purchase ammo from the range? Here or there.
Different ranges have different rules. Some require you to purchase theirs, some will allow you to bring your own.
I have been to ranges that only allow "lead-free" or total metal jacket (TMJ) in which each bullet has no exposed lead. This is typically a stipulation of indoor ranges since air quality is of higher concern indoors.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Comments
This isn't a representative assessment of me or any of the people I shoot and train with.
I wouldn't put a gun in the hand of someone that fit that description. Just saying.
Good luck, though and be safe!
I'm against murder but I'm not about to go kill someone just to find out what it's like.
You are free to believe whatever you want about me or my intentions, though.
Bad example though. That statement is beneath both of us andd this debate.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
You plan to take something that you feel in your heart is wrong and do it for the sake of the experience.
That's cool with me.
I think I've been pretty clear on these boards why I decided to seek proficiency with a firearm.
Moving on, this is becoming an obstacle to the "Universal Background Check" system that we all pretty much agree would be a good idea and is a step in the right direction:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/19/fbi-guns-background-checks/78752774/
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Just seen this. Thought it would be excellent for schools, offices, or any other application.
So is this a major difference between Canada and the US? How much does ammo actually cost in the US? I know some support raising the prices, so that makes me assume it's super cheap (or at least relatively). Here are the ammo prices at this Canadian gun range. How does that compare to the US (keeping in mind the current exchange rate is fairly irrelevant here - the prices haven't changed recently and the dollar only very recently took a tumble - last year it was about the same in USD)?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But anyway, here is a random canadian ammo site with prices.... seems pretty expensive to just purchase privately too. Seems to average at least $1/bullet.
https://www.canadaammo.com/product/byCategory/handgun-ammo/
https://www.canadaammo.com/product/byCategory/rifle-ammo/
https://www.canadaammo.com/product/byCategory/shotgun-ammo/
Generally speaking, full metal jacket (FMJ) loads are intended for practice and shooting paper targets. A box of 50 9mm FMJ's sells for between $11.00 and $16.00 depending on manufacturer and the retailer mark up around here.
Jacketed hollow-point ammo (JHP) is typically designed for hunting and self-defense. It's not uncommon to see 9mm JHP ammo from premium manufacturers sell for between $1.00 and $2.00 per round. It's usually sold in boxes of 20 or 25 rounds.
If one plans to do much shooting, especially enough to generate any real proficiency with a gun, there is a sizable financial commitment.
On the other hand, there are also those of us who load our own ammunition for practice/training purposes. It's a matter of intensive learning, patience and attention paid to the smallest detail so it's not for everyone. The benefit is that one can assemble their own loads for much less money. I developed a 9mm round that has the same trajectory and recoil impulse of expensive, self-defense ammo that costs 12.8 cents per round.
Different ranges have different rules. Some require you to purchase theirs, some will allow you to bring your own.
I have been to ranges that only allow "lead-free" or total metal jacket (TMJ) in which each bullet has no exposed lead. This is typically a stipulation of indoor ranges since air quality is of higher concern indoors.