America's Gun Violence

mcgruff10

eddiec said:

dudeman said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

I'm American and I've lived outside the US for about 14 years.
Guns in America are a joke and quite frankly they make us look like a laughing stock. (Not as bad as Republicans who may vote for creationists but that's another thread.)
American people were once viewed as progressive free thinking individuals (the 60's) but now are regarded as insular and clueless to what goes in the rest of the world. I think part of this is while we fly flags and drop bombs the average US citizen (military aside) hasn't seen first hand the destruction and death we cause. Except for 9/11 there hasn't been a major attack on US soil since Pearl Harbour. (By the way I'm a New Yorker and I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 so no need to lecture me). You say people don't know what it's like living in the US? You mean it's so lawless that everybody needs a gun? I really don't understand this statement. The US is probably one of a handful countries in the world where you don't need a gun. Probably only Israel has a higher police force out on the streets. I have no problem if people want to hunt and own rifles but guns have become a problem. If you can't admit that something is wrong. When the problem begins to become an epidemic then changes must be made. Undoubtedly those changes will affect citizens who would otherwise be responsible gun owners. When citizens of America, land of the free, have doubts about bringing their children to a crowded movie theatre what does that say about the state of our country?
Also, people with mental disabilities don't know they are crazy. Everybody knows or knows of somebody who seemed like a perfectly normal person that one day just killed themselves.

Parts of this country are lawless enough that I feel like law-abiding citizens should have the option to defend themselves, if necessary. Some areas suffer from high violent crime rates and slow reaction emergency service response times. What are the people in those areas supposed to do while being attacked when the police are 25 minutes away? Ask their attacker to wait until backup arrives? Some people are absolutely on their own and trying to stay alive. I don't begrudge those law-abiding citizens their right to self preservation.

You are right in saying that there is a gun violence problem in the US. There is. There are a lot of people with guns that shouldn't have them. That said, there are also a lot of people with guns that are not a threat to society who simply want to be prepared to protect themselves and their families from those with sinister intentions.

What towns, not cities, are you referring to where law abiding citizens have to protect their homes and family with armed weapons. I'm sure there are some small areas where this may be true but tell me, in what towns in America do people feel so threatened that owning a gun is the only way to keep your family safe?

asbury park, camden, atlantic city, paterson, newark, trenton, elizabeth, pleasantville, irvington.....oh yeah that's here in new jersey lol.

dudeman

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Only parts. Some areas are absolutely beautiful, peaceful and quiet. Others are not. That's the part of living here that makes it hard to explain the culture to others. Every state is different. Every city is different. There are vastly different demographics, wealth distribution, political leanings and standards of living everywhere you go.

Also, with the current attitude of any group of Americans toward any other groups of Americans, it doesn't seem that many people are interested in getting along. Americans have a habit of liking to say "Fuck You" to everyone else. It makes it challenging to live here at times.

I was actually being facetious. I live a half hour drive from the border. I figure I understand what America is generally like just fine, just as an American who visits Canada frequently would have a decent grasp of what it's like here. And America and Canada are the same as far as the thing you said about diverse demographics go. The USA is not a great foreign mystery to people living along its border and to people who share all the same media and pop culture and companies, etc. We get it. And the gun thing is where we part ways. Not because we don't get it. It's because we do get it and think it's idiotic. We haven't been brainwashed by fear..... to be blunt.

Ok. You understand what living here is like. Do you think that the US is perfectly safe and that people who own guns for protection are paranoid and "brainwashed by fear"? If so, why do we even have this thread? It's no secret that people here rob, rape, kidnap, beat, torture and kill each other. Some of those things have affected my family and friends directly. Just because you haven't had to face that kind of reality first-hand certainly doesn't make people who choose to arm themselves for protection "idiotic".

(But FWIW, I have never felt this "fuck you" thing you mentioned either.... perhaps it's you???)

If everyone here is so civil to each other, why do we have organizations to represent every sub-group within our country? Black Lives Matter, GLAAD and too many others to mention exist because one group or another has been targeted for ridicule or oppression by another. We have fucking riots in otherwise peaceful cities over the oppression of minority groups. But yeah, it's just me.

dudeman

eddiec said:

dudeman said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

I'm American and I've lived outside the US for about 14 years.
Guns in America are a joke and quite frankly they make us look like a laughing stock. (Not as bad as Republicans who may vote for creationists but that's another thread.)
American people were once viewed as progressive free thinking individuals (the 60's) but now are regarded as insular and clueless to what goes in the rest of the world. I think part of this is while we fly flags and drop bombs the average US citizen (military aside) hasn't seen first hand the destruction and death we cause. Except for 9/11 there hasn't been a major attack on US soil since Pearl Harbour. (By the way I'm a New Yorker and I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 so no need to lecture me). You say people don't know what it's like living in the US? You mean it's so lawless that everybody needs a gun? I really don't understand this statement. The US is probably one of a handful countries in the world where you don't need a gun. Probably only Israel has a higher police force out on the streets. I have no problem if people want to hunt and own rifles but guns have become a problem. If you can't admit that something is wrong. When the problem begins to become an epidemic then changes must be made. Undoubtedly those changes will affect citizens who would otherwise be responsible gun owners. When citizens of America, land of the free, have doubts about bringing their children to a crowded movie theatre what does that say about the state of our country?
Also, people with mental disabilities don't know they are crazy. Everybody knows or knows of somebody who seemed like a perfectly normal person that one day just killed themselves.

Parts of this country are lawless enough that I feel like law-abiding citizens should have the option to defend themselves, if necessary. Some areas suffer from high violent crime rates and slow reaction emergency service response times. What are the people in those areas supposed to do while being attacked when the police are 25 minutes away? Ask their attacker to wait until backup arrives? Some people are absolutely on their own and trying to stay alive. I don't begrudge those law-abiding citizens their right to self preservation.

You are right in saying that there is a gun violence problem in the US. There is. There are a lot of people with guns that shouldn't have them. That said, there are also a lot of people with guns that are not a threat to society who simply want to be prepared to protect themselves and their families from those with sinister intentions.

What towns, not cities, are you referring to where law abiding citizens have to protect their homes and family with armed weapons. I'm sure there are some small areas where this may be true but tell me, in what towns in America do people feel so threatened that owning a gun is the only way to keep your family safe?

Given the number of gun owners in this country, I'd say probably most of them. You might not find whole communities that are armed to the teeth but I'd be willing to bet that there are personal defense minded people in every corner of the country.

eddiec

dudeman said:

eddiec said:

dudeman said:

eddiec said:

mcgruff10 said:

I think it's as appropriate as people not living in the united states talking about gun problems in the united states.
my point being, how can people across an ocean or bordering to the north have any clue what it's like living here in the u.s.? I would never pass opinions on a country's equivalent to the United States Constitution.

I'm American and I've lived outside the US for about 14 years.
Guns in America are a joke and quite frankly they make us look like a laughing stock. (Not as bad as Republicans who may vote for creationists but that's another thread.)
American people were once viewed as progressive free thinking individuals (the 60's) but now are regarded as insular and clueless to what goes in the rest of the world. I think part of this is while we fly flags and drop bombs the average US citizen (military aside) hasn't seen first hand the destruction and death we cause. Except for 9/11 there hasn't been a major attack on US soil since Pearl Harbour. (By the way I'm a New Yorker and I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 so no need to lecture me). You say people don't know what it's like living in the US? You mean it's so lawless that everybody needs a gun? I really don't understand this statement. The US is probably one of a handful countries in the world where you don't need a gun. Probably only Israel has a higher police force out on the streets. I have no problem if people want to hunt and own rifles but guns have become a problem. If you can't admit that something is wrong. When the problem begins to become an epidemic then changes must be made. Undoubtedly those changes will affect citizens who would otherwise be responsible gun owners. When citizens of America, land of the free, have doubts about bringing their children to a crowded movie theatre what does that say about the state of our country?
Also, people with mental disabilities don't know they are crazy. Everybody knows or knows of somebody who seemed like a perfectly normal person that one day just killed themselves.

Parts of this country are lawless enough that I feel like law-abiding citizens should have the option to defend themselves, if necessary. Some areas suffer from high violent crime rates and slow reaction emergency service response times. What are the people in those areas supposed to do while being attacked when the police are 25 minutes away? Ask their attacker to wait until backup arrives? Some people are absolutely on their own and trying to stay alive. I don't begrudge those law-abiding citizens their right to self preservation.

You are right in saying that there is a gun violence problem in the US. There is. There are a lot of people with guns that shouldn't have them. That said, there are also a lot of people with guns that are not a threat to society who simply want to be prepared to protect themselves and their families from those with sinister intentions.

What towns, not cities, are you referring to where law abiding citizens have to protect their homes and family with armed weapons. I'm sure there are some small areas where this may be true but tell me, in what towns in America do people feel so threatened that owning a gun is the only way to keep your family safe?

Given the number of gun owners in this country, I'd say probably most of them. You might not find whole communities that are armed to the teeth but I'd be willing to bet that there are personal defense minded people in every corner of the country.

Ok, let's for argument sake let's say that is true? Do you not think that is completely messed up? Do you think arming more American people is the solution? Enlighten me.

dudeman

No, I don't think arming more people is the solution. I think we need less people running around with guns. However, I believe in giving law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves and their families from those who wish to do them harm.

PJ_Soul

Dudeman, how the hell would you know what I've experienced?? Oh right. You don't. Don't presume that people who don't feel like guns are the answer and don't let fear rule them have never been threatened, because you'd be wrong.

mickeyrat

dudeman said:

No, I don't think arming more people is the solution. I think we need less people running around with guns. However, I believe in giving law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves and their families from those who wish to do them harm.

But for a few municipalities, that right is not prohibited.

dudeman

PJ_Soul said:

Dudeman, how the hell would you know what I've experienced?? Oh right. You don't. Don't presume that people who don't feel like guns are the answer and don't let fear rule them have never been threatened, because you'd be wrong.

Don't presume that every gun owner in the US is a paranoid, "brainwashed by fear", "idiotic" criminal waiting to happen.

dudeman

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

No, I don't think arming more people is the solution. I think we need less people running around with guns. However, I believe in giving law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves and their families from those who wish to do them harm.

But for a few municipalities, that right is not prohibited.

Not yet.

PJ_Soul

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

Dudeman, how the hell would you know what I've experienced?? Oh right. You don't. Don't presume that people who don't feel like guns are the answer and don't let fear rule them have never been threatened, because you'd be wrong.

Don't presume that every gun owner in the US is a paranoid, "brainwashed by fear", "idiotic" criminal waiting to happen.

I don't. I never said that. The gun culture is idiotic. The culture of fear is idiotic.

mickeyrat

dudeman said:

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

No, I don't think arming more people is the solution. I think we need less people running around with guns. However, I believe in giving law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves and their families from those who wish to do them harm.

But for a few municipalities, that right is not prohibited.

Not yet.

and THAT comes across as paranoid.

mickeyrat

should the question be asked of buyers of weapons if there are kids in the house? If the answer is yes then mpre extensive training should be a requirement, shouldnt it? Might have prevented this from happening. Fine upstanding responsible gun owner.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/11/06/preschooler-shoots-himself/75309372/

mcgruff10

"The culture of fear is idiotic."
You have no clue what fear is until you experience it. everyone has a story, don't assume everyone lives in a world with white picket fences where everyone loves each other.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

Dudeman, how the hell would you know what I've experienced?? Oh right. You don't. Don't presume that people who don't feel like guns are the answer and don't let fear rule them have never been threatened, because you'd be wrong.

Don't presume that every gun owner in the US is a paranoid, "brainwashed by fear", "idiotic" criminal waiting to happen.

Don't presume they have one toof, drive a Fargo pickup, and say, "Hyuk Hyuk" a lot either.

That's only, like, maybe half of them!

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

"The culture of fear is idiotic."
You have no clue what fear is until you experience it. everyone has a story, don't assume everyone lives in a world with white picket fences where everyone loves each other.

? I have experienced fear. Experiencing fear and creating and maintaining a culture of fear are two very different things. And i do not assume that at all. Where'd you get the idea I think that? You think there are only two options? A culture of fear or white picket fences and everyone loves everyone? Yikes.

jnimhaoileoin

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

"The culture of fear is idiotic."
You have no clue what fear is until you experience it. everyone has a story, don't assume everyone lives in a world with white picket fences where everyone loves each other.

? I have experienced fear. Experiencing fear and creating and maintaining a culture of fear are two very different things. And i do not assume that at all. Where'd you get the idea I think that? You think there are only two options? A culture of fear or white picket fences and everyone loves everyone? Yikes.

Aye it's that culture of fear that the NRA seem to endeavour to cultivate for their own ends

tempo_n_groove

jnimhaoileoin said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

"The culture of fear is idiotic."
You have no clue what fear is until you experience it. everyone has a story, don't assume everyone lives in a world with white picket fences where everyone loves each other.

? I have experienced fear. Experiencing fear and creating and maintaining a culture of fear are two very different things. And i do not assume that at all. Where'd you get the idea I think that? You think there are only two options? A culture of fear or white picket fences and everyone loves everyone? Yikes.

Aye it's that culture of fear that the NRA seem to endeavour to cultivate for their own ends

Take this with a grain of salt.

Brady bill. California bans all assault weapons. Major cities ban handguns. Clinton bans the import of assault weapons. NY bans all sorts of things like high ammunition sales, the gun you actually own and so on...

There is proof there that Quite s few want to take away your guns.

Again, take it with a grain of salt.

mcgruff10

tempo_n_groove said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

"The culture of fear is idiotic."
You have no clue what fear is until you experience it. everyone has a story, don't assume everyone lives in a world with white picket fences where everyone loves each other.

? I have experienced fear. Experiencing fear and creating and maintaining a culture of fear are two very different things. And i do not assume that at all. Where'd you get the idea I think that? You think there are only two options? A culture of fear or white picket fences and everyone loves everyone? Yikes.

Aye it's that culture of fear that the NRA seem to endeavour to cultivate for their own ends

Take this with a grain of salt.

Brady bill. California bans all assault weapons. Major cities ban handguns. Clinton bans the import of assault weapons. NY bans all sorts of things like high ammunition sales, the gun you actually own and so on...

There is proof there that Quite s few want to take away your guns.

Again, take it with a grain of salt.

look at new jersey. we are only a few steps away from pretty much repealing the 2nd amendment.
new york banned high ammunition sales? so if I buy a brick (500 res) of .22 lr it's illegal?
I know their magazine ban did not survive court but everything else did.

dudeman

There has been mention of "looking to England and Australia" on how to deal with America's gun violence. I'm pretty sure I've heard that from President Obama and Hilary. A ban and confiscation of privately owned firearms in the US certainly isn't out of the question.

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

No, I don't think arming more people is the solution. I think we need less people running around with guns. However, I believe in giving law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves and their families from those who wish to do them harm.

But for a few municipalities, that right is not prohibited.

Not yet.

and THAT comes across as paranoid.

dudeman

http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regional-berks/market-employees-shoot-kill-masked-robbers-in-reading/36188568