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America's Gun Violence

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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,660
    sarah beattie is a comedian.....a very filthy one at that. 

    Yeah. It's not my type of comedy but I don't really think it detracts from any points made about gun violence.
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  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,513
    Good to see folks dredging the bottom of the gutter of twitter to try and make a point, whatever their point might be.
    Agreed. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,852
     https://news.yahoo.com/police-1-killed-2-wounded-162632036.html

    An employee suspected of shooting three workers at an office inside a Long Island grocery store Tuesday, killing a manager, was arrested hours after fleeing, p...

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,590
    “Responsible” gun owner? You don’t say?
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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,941
    edited April 25
    You can't get into a gun show unless you are 18 or with an adult.  I think we have some creative editing going on there.  

    As per the ATF:
    Under the Gun Control Act (GCA), shotguns and rifles, and ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 18 years of age or older. All firearms other than shotguns and rifles, and all ammunition other than ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 21 years of age or older. Licensees are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA regardless of State or local law. However, if State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age for the purchase or disposition of firearms, the licensee must observe the higher age requirement.

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-customer-have-be-certain-age-buy-firearms-or-ammunition-licensee
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • static111static111 Posts: 2,507
    mcgruff10 said:
    You can't get into a gun show unless you are 18 or with an adult.  I think we have some creative editing going on there.  

    As per the ATF:
    Under the Gun Control Act (GCA), shotguns and rifles, and ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 18 years of age or older. All firearms other than shotguns and rifles, and all ammunition other than ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 21 years of age or older. Licensees are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA regardless of State or local law. However, if State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age for the purchase or disposition of firearms, the licensee must observe the higher age requirement.

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-customer-have-be-certain-age-buy-firearms-or-ammunition-licensee
    I have been to gun shows and no one has ever asked for an id.  Granted this was in New Mexico and Texas, but you absolutely can get in without an ID
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,941
    static111 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    You can't get into a gun show unless you are 18 or with an adult.  I think we have some creative editing going on there.  

    As per the ATF:
    Under the Gun Control Act (GCA), shotguns and rifles, and ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 18 years of age or older. All firearms other than shotguns and rifles, and all ammunition other than ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 21 years of age or older. Licensees are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA regardless of State or local law. However, if State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age for the purchase or disposition of firearms, the licensee must observe the higher age requirement.

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-customer-have-be-certain-age-buy-firearms-or-ammunition-licensee
    I have been to gun shows and no one has ever asked for an id.  Granted this was in New Mexico and Texas, but you absolutely can get in without an ID
    I stand corrected.   However there is no way that story went like that.  The mom/dad probably bought the .22 and the kid carried it out.  (Which isn’t a big deal at all)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • jerparker20jerparker20 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,101
    mcgruff10 said:
    static111 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    You can't get into a gun show unless you are 18 or with an adult.  I think we have some creative editing going on there.  

    As per the ATF:
    Under the Gun Control Act (GCA), shotguns and rifles, and ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 18 years of age or older. All firearms other than shotguns and rifles, and all ammunition other than ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 21 years of age or older. Licensees are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA regardless of State or local law. However, if State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age for the purchase or disposition of firearms, the licensee must observe the higher age requirement.

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-customer-have-be-certain-age-buy-firearms-or-ammunition-licensee
    I have been to gun shows and no one has ever asked for an id.  Granted this was in New Mexico and Texas, but you absolutely can get in without an ID
    I stand corrected.   However there is no way that story went like that.  The mom/dad probably bought the .22 and the kid carried it out.  (Which isn’t a big deal at all)
    The key phrase in this video, “... bought it from a private seller...”

    This is the “ gun show loophole” that you hear about. Private sellers are allowed to sell at gun shows in some states without being licensed gun dealers. It’s no different than putting a gun for sale on Craigslist and meeting in a parking lot to make an exchange, or the neighbor selling it to the kid next door. No licensing, no background checks, no records, perfectly legal.

    I too have been to numerous gun shows and don’t ever recall being IDed prior to entry. As long as I had a $10 bill to cover the admission no one cared. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    edited April 26
    I never heard of the gun show loophole meaning any age can buy guns. I’m pretty sure there’s still a minimum age even at a gun show. I don’t see how that was legally purchased.

    Also, I miss the old gun shows. I used to go the the LA county gun shows with my parents as a kid. My mom who has never owned or shot a gun still loved it because only a small fraction were actually guns. Just a bunch of random cool stuff and a ton of antiques. I don’t know if all guns shows were like that in the 80s or just LA county. But about 25 years ago they shut that one down.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,941
    Yeah I don't think the gun show loop hole allows private sellers to sell to anyone under the age of 18.  Like I said, there was definitely some creative editing with that video.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 24,706
    Please you can’t really believe every gun show in America follows any strict guidelines maybe some but not all! Who goes around making sure they do? How many gun shows take place every damn week? 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    edited April 27
    Please you can’t really believe every gun show in America follows any strict guidelines maybe some but not all! Who goes around making sure they do? How many gun shows take place every damn week? 
    Maybe, but that’s not what the video said. It said the gun was purchased legally, not that gun shows don’t follow rules and sold a gun to a 13-year old against the law. 13 year olds can’t legally buy guns legally, gun show or not. So at best it was deceptive, if not flat out staged or wrong. 
    I know some liquor stores will sell cigarettes to a 13 year old. But I’m not going to make a video of a kid buying some and claim that means it’s legal. Since that’s be just stupid and untrue to claim that. At best that’s what happened here. Which makes me question the credibility all around.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,590
    According to this, it is legal for a 13 year old to purchase a long gun from a private seller at a gun show. That's the loophole that reasonable people want closed and the one "responsible" gun owners want to remain open. Yea, just stupid.

    A mass school shooting in Florida has sparked renewed debate over whether and how to reform gun regulations in the United States. Among the issues under discussion now is the age at which it should be legal to purchase a weapon like the one used to kill 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

    Under federal law, the minimum age to buy a handgun from a licensed dealer is 21. But the age limit drops to 18 if the gun is being purchased from a private, unlicensed seller, which could be a neighbor or someone online, or at gun show. 

    For long guns, which includes rifles like AR-15s and shotguns, the minimum age of purchase from a licensed dealer is 18 under the federal law. But there’s no minimum age to purchase a long gun from a unlicensed seller. 

    What are the legal ages for buying guns? | TheHill

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    According to this, it is legal for a 13 year old to purchase a long gun from a private seller at a gun show. That's the loophole that reasonable people want closed and the one "responsible" gun owners want to remain open. Yea, just stupid.

    A mass school shooting in Florida has sparked renewed debate over whether and how to reform gun regulations in the United States. Among the issues under discussion now is the age at which it should be legal to purchase a weapon like the one used to kill 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

    Under federal law, the minimum age to buy a handgun from a licensed dealer is 21. But the age limit drops to 18 if the gun is being purchased from a private, unlicensed seller, which could be a neighbor or someone online, or at gun show. 

    For long guns, which includes rifles like AR-15s and shotguns, the minimum age of purchase from a licensed dealer is 18 under the federal law. But there’s no minimum age to purchase a long gun from a unlicensed seller. 

    What are the legal ages for buying guns? | TheHill

    I have never heard of that, always thought it was 18 (and in many states it is). I looked it up on the ATF website too and its true. I'm actually pretty surprised there is no federal minimum age for a private transfer. I'd be curious how many states don't have a minimum age either, but dont have time right now to check.

    Minimum Age for Gun Sales and Transfers* | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov)
    Long Guns: There are no federal laws preventing unlicensed persons from selling, delivering or otherwise transferring a long gun or long gun ammunition to a person of any age
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,590
    Another "responsible" gun owner.

    Video shows NRA head struggling to kill wounded elephant from feet away: ‘I’m not sure where you’re shooting’

    The wounded elephant was on the ground, his hunters drawn close for the kill. But the longtime head of the National Rifle Association — touted as a skilled marksman — struggled to finish the job.

    Following a guide and clad in safari gear, Wayne LaPierre fires shots from a few feet away. The elephant’s breathing is labored.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says. One apparently errant shot later, another man steps in.

    The 2013 footage from a Botswana hunting trip — captured for a television show the NRA used to sponsor — never aired out of concern it could become a “public relations fiasco,” according to the New Yorker and the nonprofit newsroom the Trace, which published the video Tuesday. LaPierre at times appears to struggle with basic marksmanship and could have violated the NRA’s ethics code for hunters: “I will do my best to acquire those marksmanship and hunting skills, which insure clean, sportsmanlike kills,” the code reads.

    The video came at a fraught time for the NRA, a major political force and powerful lobbyist against gun control. The footage was posted just two days before LaPierre is due to testify for the second time in an ongoing NRA bankruptcy case in Dallas, one that has put LaPierre’s stewardship of the gun rights lobby on trial. A New York native, LaPierre has led the NRA since 1991.

    The elephant hunt footage quickly drew backlash and derisive reactions on Tuesday.

    “In which @NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre manages to alienate both hunters and gun owners because not only is this inhumane, but he’s a horrible shot,” tweeted Shannon Watts, a fierce NRA critic and the founder of Moms Demand Action, which fights for stronger gun restrictions.

    In a statement, NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam confirmed LaPierre was part of a hunt in Botswana and “the corresponding video footage was for an outdoor TV show the NRA once sponsored.”

    He defended the hunt as “fully permitted and conducted in accordance with all rules and regulations” and as an activity that contributes to the region’s economy and culture, echoing arguments from other proponents of big-game hunting.

    “The video offers an incomplete portrayal of the experience — and fails to express the many ways this activity benefits the local community and habitat,” Arulanandam said.

    The video was shot for “Under Wild Skies,” which showcases big-game hunts and is hosted by Tony Makris, an executive at the NRA’s estranged former PR company Ackerman McQueen — now in a legal fight with the gun rights group. Makris could not be reached Tuesday evening for comment.

    In 2013, video of Makris shooting an elephant in the face sparked another outcry, leading NBC Sports Network, which aired the show, to respond in a statement that the “Under Wild Skies” episode should not have aired and would not run again. Makris was filmed chasing the injured animal, eventually killing it and celebrating with champagne.

    “While this form of hunting is legal, we understand that many viewers find it objectionable,” NBC said at the time.

    The video published Tuesday captures LaPierre and Makris on another elephant hunt. After an animal is spotted and LaPierre prepares to fire, a guide instructs him to wait. But LaPierre, wearing earplugs, does not hear the instructions, he later says.

    His first shot lands off-screen. LaPierre asks, “Did we get him?” The guide locates the downed elephant and points out where LaPierre should fire a fatal round. LaPierre fires two more shots from only a few feet away.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says.

    “Where are you telling me to shoot?” LaPierre asks.

    The guide moves forward and points out a place near the ear — a recommended target to pierce the animal’s brain. He fires his fourth shot and misses again.

    The guide laughs and suggests to Makris he finish up. He fires a shot. “That’s it,” the guide says.

    Makris downplays his own role, however.

    “You dropped him like no tomorrow,” he tells LaPierre.

    LaPierre’s wife, Susan, kills her own elephant with better marksmanship than her husband — after shooting a tusked elephant in the head, the guide directs where to shoot it in the chest to ensure it’s dead. Her second shot wins approval from the group, and she laughs with relief.

    The guide says it’s a hunter custom to cut the tail off a dead elephant so it cannot be claimed by someone else.

    Susan LaPierre saws through the hide with a knife and raises it to the sky.

    “Victory,” she says.

    African elephants are endangered, according to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN). The African forest elephant population has fallen by more than 86 percent over about the past three decades, according to the organization, while the number of African savanna elephants has dropped at least 60 percent over the past half-century. The group points to poaching and loss of habitat, and Botswana’s government has spoken about the benefits of legalized elephant hunts.

    Critics called the gory display in Tuesday’s video disturbing. “This is disgusting,” tweeted MSNBC host Joy-Ann Reid.

    “We’re in the midst of a poaching epidemic, and rich trophy hunters like the NRA chief are blasting away at elephants while the international community calls for stiffer penalties for poachers — what message does that send?” Tanya Sanerib, international legal director at the Center for Biological Diversity, said in a statement.

    The video’s release comes as the NRA is embroiled in messy legal battles.

    After the group was sued last year by New York Attorney General Letitia James for violating state charity laws, NRA leaders announced the organization was declaring bankruptcy and moving to Texas largely to avoid the New York lawsuit. James claimed LaPierre and other executives enriched themselves at the expense of the tax-exempt organization and its 5 million members — and she sought dissolution of the NRA, which was originally chartered in New York state.

    James and others have contested the NRA bankruptcy filing and asked the federal bankruptcy court judge to appoint an independent trustee to run the organization. The trial has revealed flaws in the NRA’s fiscal management through the years, including payments made to Ackerman McQueen, one of the group’s leading outside contractors.

    “Under Wild Skies” is hosted and owned by Makris, but Ackerman McQueen is not otherwise associated with the venture.

    The video was filmed in mid-2013, months after the December 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., which resulted in the deaths of 20 children and six adults. Under LaPierre’s leadership, the NRA opposed a regulatory response championed by gun-control advocates at the time.

    Wayne LaPierre elephant video: NRA head struggles in Botswana hunt, drawing derisive reactions - The Washington Post

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  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 759
    Another "responsible" gun owner.

    Video shows NRA head struggling to kill wounded elephant from feet away: ‘I’m not sure where you’re shooting’

    The wounded elephant was on the ground, his hunters drawn close for the kill. But the longtime head of the National Rifle Association — touted as a skilled marksman — struggled to finish the job.

    Following a guide and clad in safari gear, Wayne LaPierre fires shots from a few feet away. The elephant’s breathing is labored.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says. One apparently errant shot later, another man steps in.

    The 2013 footage from a Botswana hunting trip — captured for a television show the NRA used to sponsor — never aired out of concern it could become a “public relations fiasco,” according to the New Yorker and the nonprofit newsroom the Trace, which published the video Tuesday. LaPierre at times appears to struggle with basic marksmanship and could have violated the NRA’s ethics code for hunters: “I will do my best to acquire those marksmanship and hunting skills, which insure clean, sportsmanlike kills,” the code reads.

    The video came at a fraught time for the NRA, a major political force and powerful lobbyist against gun control. The footage was posted just two days before LaPierre is due to testify for the second time in an ongoing NRA bankruptcy case in Dallas, one that has put LaPierre’s stewardship of the gun rights lobby on trial. A New York native, LaPierre has led the NRA since 1991.

    The elephant hunt footage quickly drew backlash and derisive reactions on Tuesday.

    “In which @NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre manages to alienate both hunters and gun owners because not only is this inhumane, but he’s a horrible shot,” tweeted Shannon Watts, a fierce NRA critic and the founder of Moms Demand Action, which fights for stronger gun restrictions.

    In a statement, NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam confirmed LaPierre was part of a hunt in Botswana and “the corresponding video footage was for an outdoor TV show the NRA once sponsored.”

    He defended the hunt as “fully permitted and conducted in accordance with all rules and regulations” and as an activity that contributes to the region’s economy and culture, echoing arguments from other proponents of big-game hunting.

    “The video offers an incomplete portrayal of the experience — and fails to express the many ways this activity benefits the local community and habitat,” Arulanandam said.

    The video was shot for “Under Wild Skies,” which showcases big-game hunts and is hosted by Tony Makris, an executive at the NRA’s estranged former PR company Ackerman McQueen — now in a legal fight with the gun rights group. Makris could not be reached Tuesday evening for comment.

    In 2013, video of Makris shooting an elephant in the face sparked another outcry, leading NBC Sports Network, which aired the show, to respond in a statement that the “Under Wild Skies” episode should not have aired and would not run again. Makris was filmed chasing the injured animal, eventually killing it and celebrating with champagne.

    “While this form of hunting is legal, we understand that many viewers find it objectionable,” NBC said at the time.

    The video published Tuesday captures LaPierre and Makris on another elephant hunt. After an animal is spotted and LaPierre prepares to fire, a guide instructs him to wait. But LaPierre, wearing earplugs, does not hear the instructions, he later says.

    His first shot lands off-screen. LaPierre asks, “Did we get him?” The guide locates the downed elephant and points out where LaPierre should fire a fatal round. LaPierre fires two more shots from only a few feet away.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says.

    “Where are you telling me to shoot?” LaPierre asks.

    The guide moves forward and points out a place near the ear — a recommended target to pierce the animal’s brain. He fires his fourth shot and misses again.

    The guide laughs and suggests to Makris he finish up. He fires a shot. “That’s it,” the guide says.

    Makris downplays his own role, however.

    “You dropped him like no tomorrow,” he tells LaPierre.

    LaPierre’s wife, Susan, kills her own elephant with better marksmanship than her husband — after shooting a tusked elephant in the head, the guide directs where to shoot it in the chest to ensure it’s dead. Her second shot wins approval from the group, and she laughs with relief.

    The guide says it’s a hunter custom to cut the tail off a dead elephant so it cannot be claimed by someone else.

    Susan LaPierre saws through the hide with a knife and raises it to the sky.

    “Victory,” she says.

    African elephants are endangered, according to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN). The African forest elephant population has fallen by more than 86 percent over about the past three decades, according to the organization, while the number of African savanna elephants has dropped at least 60 percent over the past half-century. The group points to poaching and loss of habitat, and Botswana’s government has spoken about the benefits of legalized elephant hunts.

    Critics called the gory display in Tuesday’s video disturbing. “This is disgusting,” tweeted MSNBC host Joy-Ann Reid.

    “We’re in the midst of a poaching epidemic, and rich trophy hunters like the NRA chief are blasting away at elephants while the international community calls for stiffer penalties for poachers — what message does that send?” Tanya Sanerib, international legal director at the Center for Biological Diversity, said in a statement.

    The video’s release comes as the NRA is embroiled in messy legal battles.

    After the group was sued last year by New York Attorney General Letitia James for violating state charity laws, NRA leaders announced the organization was declaring bankruptcy and moving to Texas largely to avoid the New York lawsuit. James claimed LaPierre and other executives enriched themselves at the expense of the tax-exempt organization and its 5 million members — and she sought dissolution of the NRA, which was originally chartered in New York state.

    James and others have contested the NRA bankruptcy filing and asked the federal bankruptcy court judge to appoint an independent trustee to run the organization. The trial has revealed flaws in the NRA’s fiscal management through the years, including payments made to Ackerman McQueen, one of the group’s leading outside contractors.

    “Under Wild Skies” is hosted and owned by Makris, but Ackerman McQueen is not otherwise associated with the venture.

    The video was filmed in mid-2013, months after the December 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., which resulted in the deaths of 20 children and six adults. Under LaPierre’s leadership, the NRA opposed a regulatory response championed by gun-control advocates at the time.

    Wayne LaPierre elephant video: NRA head struggles in Botswana hunt, drawing derisive reactions - The Washington Post

    Hunting animals that are plentiful for food (deer, ducks etc.) is one thing, but killing an elephant, or any animal, just for the thrill and the trophy is wrong. Killing an endangered animal is irresponsible and morally bankrupt.
  • jerparker20jerparker20 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,101
    I had read about this issue a while back. Will be interesting to see how the court rules, or if they even allow the suit to go forward.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/27/chicago-sues-gun-store-tied-850-guns-recovered-crime-scenes/4854619001/
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,513
    Another "responsible" gun owner.

    Video shows NRA head struggling to kill wounded elephant from feet away: ‘I’m not sure where you’re shooting’

    The wounded elephant was on the ground, his hunters drawn close for the kill. But the longtime head of the National Rifle Association — touted as a skilled marksman — struggled to finish the job.

    Following a guide and clad in safari gear, Wayne LaPierre fires shots from a few feet away. The elephant’s breathing is labored.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says. One apparently errant shot later, another man steps in.

    The 2013 footage from a Botswana hunting trip — captured for a television show the NRA used to sponsor — never aired out of concern it could become a “public relations fiasco,” according to the New Yorker and the nonprofit newsroom the Trace, which published the video Tuesday. LaPierre at times appears to struggle with basic marksmanship and could have violated the NRA’s ethics code for hunters: “I will do my best to acquire those marksmanship and hunting skills, which insure clean, sportsmanlike kills,” the code reads.

    The video came at a fraught time for the NRA, a major political force and powerful lobbyist against gun control. The footage was posted just two days before LaPierre is due to testify for the second time in an ongoing NRA bankruptcy case in Dallas, one that has put LaPierre’s stewardship of the gun rights lobby on trial. A New York native, LaPierre has led the NRA since 1991.

    The elephant hunt footage quickly drew backlash and derisive reactions on Tuesday.

    “In which @NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre manages to alienate both hunters and gun owners because not only is this inhumane, but he’s a horrible shot,” tweeted Shannon Watts, a fierce NRA critic and the founder of Moms Demand Action, which fights for stronger gun restrictions.

    In a statement, NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam confirmed LaPierre was part of a hunt in Botswana and “the corresponding video footage was for an outdoor TV show the NRA once sponsored.”

    He defended the hunt as “fully permitted and conducted in accordance with all rules and regulations” and as an activity that contributes to the region’s economy and culture, echoing arguments from other proponents of big-game hunting.

    “The video offers an incomplete portrayal of the experience — and fails to express the many ways this activity benefits the local community and habitat,” Arulanandam said.

    The video was shot for “Under Wild Skies,” which showcases big-game hunts and is hosted by Tony Makris, an executive at the NRA’s estranged former PR company Ackerman McQueen — now in a legal fight with the gun rights group. Makris could not be reached Tuesday evening for comment.

    In 2013, video of Makris shooting an elephant in the face sparked another outcry, leading NBC Sports Network, which aired the show, to respond in a statement that the “Under Wild Skies” episode should not have aired and would not run again. Makris was filmed chasing the injured animal, eventually killing it and celebrating with champagne.

    “While this form of hunting is legal, we understand that many viewers find it objectionable,” NBC said at the time.

    The video published Tuesday captures LaPierre and Makris on another elephant hunt. After an animal is spotted and LaPierre prepares to fire, a guide instructs him to wait. But LaPierre, wearing earplugs, does not hear the instructions, he later says.

    His first shot lands off-screen. LaPierre asks, “Did we get him?” The guide locates the downed elephant and points out where LaPierre should fire a fatal round. LaPierre fires two more shots from only a few feet away.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says.

    “Where are you telling me to shoot?” LaPierre asks.

    The guide moves forward and points out a place near the ear — a recommended target to pierce the animal’s brain. He fires his fourth shot and misses again.

    The guide laughs and suggests to Makris he finish up. He fires a shot. “That’s it,” the guide says.

    Makris downplays his own role, however.

    “You dropped him like no tomorrow,” he tells LaPierre.

    LaPierre’s wife, Susan, kills her own elephant with better marksmanship than her husband — after shooting a tusked elephant in the head, the guide directs where to shoot it in the chest to ensure it’s dead. Her second shot wins approval from the group, and she laughs with relief.

    The guide says it’s a hunter custom to cut the tail off a dead elephant so it cannot be claimed by someone else.

    Susan LaPierre saws through the hide with a knife and raises it to the sky.

    “Victory,” she says.

    African elephants are endangered, according to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN). The African forest elephant population has fallen by more than 86 percent over about the past three decades, according to the organization, while the number of African savanna elephants has dropped at least 60 percent over the past half-century. The group points to poaching and loss of habitat, and Botswana’s government has spoken about the benefits of legalized elephant hunts.

    Critics called the gory display in Tuesday’s video disturbing. “This is disgusting,” tweeted MSNBC host Joy-Ann Reid.

    “We’re in the midst of a poaching epidemic, and rich trophy hunters like the NRA chief are blasting away at elephants while the international community calls for stiffer penalties for poachers — what message does that send?” Tanya Sanerib, international legal director at the Center for Biological Diversity, said in a statement.

    The video’s release comes as the NRA is embroiled in messy legal battles.

    After the group was sued last year by New York Attorney General Letitia James for violating state charity laws, NRA leaders announced the organization was declaring bankruptcy and moving to Texas largely to avoid the New York lawsuit. James claimed LaPierre and other executives enriched themselves at the expense of the tax-exempt organization and its 5 million members — and she sought dissolution of the NRA, which was originally chartered in New York state.

    James and others have contested the NRA bankruptcy filing and asked the federal bankruptcy court judge to appoint an independent trustee to run the organization. The trial has revealed flaws in the NRA’s fiscal management through the years, including payments made to Ackerman McQueen, one of the group’s leading outside contractors.

    “Under Wild Skies” is hosted and owned by Makris, but Ackerman McQueen is not otherwise associated with the venture.

    The video was filmed in mid-2013, months after the December 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., which resulted in the deaths of 20 children and six adults. Under LaPierre’s leadership, the NRA opposed a regulatory response championed by gun-control advocates at the time.

    Wayne LaPierre elephant video: NRA head struggles in Botswana hunt, drawing derisive reactions - The Washington Post

    Wayne LaPierre is a national treasure. Oh wait. Did I say national treasure? I meant total douchebag.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,136
    dudeman said:
    Another "responsible" gun owner.

    Video shows NRA head struggling to kill wounded elephant from feet away: ‘I’m not sure where you’re shooting’

    The wounded elephant was on the ground, his hunters drawn close for the kill. But the longtime head of the National Rifle Association — touted as a skilled marksman — struggled to finish the job.

    Following a guide and clad in safari gear, Wayne LaPierre fires shots from a few feet away. The elephant’s breathing is labored.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says. One apparently errant shot later, another man steps in.

    The 2013 footage from a Botswana hunting trip — captured for a television show the NRA used to sponsor — never aired out of concern it could become a “public relations fiasco,” according to the New Yorker and the nonprofit newsroom the Trace, which published the video Tuesday. LaPierre at times appears to struggle with basic marksmanship and could have violated the NRA’s ethics code for hunters: “I will do my best to acquire those marksmanship and hunting skills, which insure clean, sportsmanlike kills,” the code reads.

    The video came at a fraught time for the NRA, a major political force and powerful lobbyist against gun control. The footage was posted just two days before LaPierre is due to testify for the second time in an ongoing NRA bankruptcy case in Dallas, one that has put LaPierre’s stewardship of the gun rights lobby on trial. A New York native, LaPierre has led the NRA since 1991.

    The elephant hunt footage quickly drew backlash and derisive reactions on Tuesday.

    “In which @NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre manages to alienate both hunters and gun owners because not only is this inhumane, but he’s a horrible shot,” tweeted Shannon Watts, a fierce NRA critic and the founder of Moms Demand Action, which fights for stronger gun restrictions.

    In a statement, NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam confirmed LaPierre was part of a hunt in Botswana and “the corresponding video footage was for an outdoor TV show the NRA once sponsored.”

    He defended the hunt as “fully permitted and conducted in accordance with all rules and regulations” and as an activity that contributes to the region’s economy and culture, echoing arguments from other proponents of big-game hunting.

    “The video offers an incomplete portrayal of the experience — and fails to express the many ways this activity benefits the local community and habitat,” Arulanandam said.

    The video was shot for “Under Wild Skies,” which showcases big-game hunts and is hosted by Tony Makris, an executive at the NRA’s estranged former PR company Ackerman McQueen — now in a legal fight with the gun rights group. Makris could not be reached Tuesday evening for comment.

    In 2013, video of Makris shooting an elephant in the face sparked another outcry, leading NBC Sports Network, which aired the show, to respond in a statement that the “Under Wild Skies” episode should not have aired and would not run again. Makris was filmed chasing the injured animal, eventually killing it and celebrating with champagne.

    “While this form of hunting is legal, we understand that many viewers find it objectionable,” NBC said at the time.

    The video published Tuesday captures LaPierre and Makris on another elephant hunt. After an animal is spotted and LaPierre prepares to fire, a guide instructs him to wait. But LaPierre, wearing earplugs, does not hear the instructions, he later says.

    His first shot lands off-screen. LaPierre asks, “Did we get him?” The guide locates the downed elephant and points out where LaPierre should fire a fatal round. LaPierre fires two more shots from only a few feet away.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says.

    “Where are you telling me to shoot?” LaPierre asks.

    The guide moves forward and points out a place near the ear — a recommended target to pierce the animal’s brain. He fires his fourth shot and misses again.

    The guide laughs and suggests to Makris he finish up. He fires a shot. “That’s it,” the guide says.

    Makris downplays his own role, however.

    “You dropped him like no tomorrow,” he tells LaPierre.

    LaPierre’s wife, Susan, kills her own elephant with better marksmanship than her husband — after shooting a tusked elephant in the head, the guide directs where to shoot it in the chest to ensure it’s dead. Her second shot wins approval from the group, and she laughs with relief.

    The guide says it’s a hunter custom to cut the tail off a dead elephant so it cannot be claimed by someone else.

    Susan LaPierre saws through the hide with a knife and raises it to the sky.

    “Victory,” she says.

    African elephants are endangered, according to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN). The African forest elephant population has fallen by more than 86 percent over about the past three decades, according to the organization, while the number of African savanna elephants has dropped at least 60 percent over the past half-century. The group points to poaching and loss of habitat, and Botswana’s government has spoken about the benefits of legalized elephant hunts.

    Critics called the gory display in Tuesday’s video disturbing. “This is disgusting,” tweeted MSNBC host Joy-Ann Reid.

    “We’re in the midst of a poaching epidemic, and rich trophy hunters like the NRA chief are blasting away at elephants while the international community calls for stiffer penalties for poachers — what message does that send?” Tanya Sanerib, international legal director at the Center for Biological Diversity, said in a statement.

    The video’s release comes as the NRA is embroiled in messy legal battles.

    After the group was sued last year by New York Attorney General Letitia James for violating state charity laws, NRA leaders announced the organization was declaring bankruptcy and moving to Texas largely to avoid the New York lawsuit. James claimed LaPierre and other executives enriched themselves at the expense of the tax-exempt organization and its 5 million members — and she sought dissolution of the NRA, which was originally chartered in New York state.

    James and others have contested the NRA bankruptcy filing and asked the federal bankruptcy court judge to appoint an independent trustee to run the organization. The trial has revealed flaws in the NRA’s fiscal management through the years, including payments made to Ackerman McQueen, one of the group’s leading outside contractors.

    “Under Wild Skies” is hosted and owned by Makris, but Ackerman McQueen is not otherwise associated with the venture.

    The video was filmed in mid-2013, months after the December 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., which resulted in the deaths of 20 children and six adults. Under LaPierre’s leadership, the NRA opposed a regulatory response championed by gun-control advocates at the time.

    Wayne LaPierre elephant video: NRA head struggles in Botswana hunt, drawing derisive reactions - The Washington Post

    Wayne LaPierre is a national treasure. Oh wait. Did I say national treasure? I meant total douchebag.
    Here's the American Treasure...


  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,333
    https://nypost.com/2021/04/30/peter-luger-shooting-victim-says-you-go-out-to-dinner-and-thats-what-happens/

    Good Times! We can go out to eat in restaurants now! And dodge bullets while eating steak. 
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 24,706
    Another "responsible" gun owner.

    Video shows NRA head struggling to kill wounded elephant from feet away: ‘I’m not sure where you’re shooting’

    The wounded elephant was on the ground, his hunters drawn close for the kill. But the longtime head of the National Rifle Association — touted as a skilled marksman — struggled to finish the job.

    Following a guide and clad in safari gear, Wayne LaPierre fires shots from a few feet away. The elephant’s breathing is labored.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says. One apparently errant shot later, another man steps in.

    The 2013 footage from a Botswana hunting trip — captured for a television show the NRA used to sponsor — never aired out of concern it could become a “public relations fiasco,” according to the New Yorker and the nonprofit newsroom the Trace, which published the video Tuesday. LaPierre at times appears to struggle with basic marksmanship and could have violated the NRA’s ethics code for hunters: “I will do my best to acquire those marksmanship and hunting skills, which insure clean, sportsmanlike kills,” the code reads.

    The video came at a fraught time for the NRA, a major political force and powerful lobbyist against gun control. The footage was posted just two days before LaPierre is due to testify for the second time in an ongoing NRA bankruptcy case in Dallas, one that has put LaPierre’s stewardship of the gun rights lobby on trial. A New York native, LaPierre has led the NRA since 1991.

    The elephant hunt footage quickly drew backlash and derisive reactions on Tuesday.

    “In which @NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre manages to alienate both hunters and gun owners because not only is this inhumane, but he’s a horrible shot,” tweeted Shannon Watts, a fierce NRA critic and the founder of Moms Demand Action, which fights for stronger gun restrictions.

    In a statement, NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam confirmed LaPierre was part of a hunt in Botswana and “the corresponding video footage was for an outdoor TV show the NRA once sponsored.”

    He defended the hunt as “fully permitted and conducted in accordance with all rules and regulations” and as an activity that contributes to the region’s economy and culture, echoing arguments from other proponents of big-game hunting.

    “The video offers an incomplete portrayal of the experience — and fails to express the many ways this activity benefits the local community and habitat,” Arulanandam said.

    The video was shot for “Under Wild Skies,” which showcases big-game hunts and is hosted by Tony Makris, an executive at the NRA’s estranged former PR company Ackerman McQueen — now in a legal fight with the gun rights group. Makris could not be reached Tuesday evening for comment.

    In 2013, video of Makris shooting an elephant in the face sparked another outcry, leading NBC Sports Network, which aired the show, to respond in a statement that the “Under Wild Skies” episode should not have aired and would not run again. Makris was filmed chasing the injured animal, eventually killing it and celebrating with champagne.

    “While this form of hunting is legal, we understand that many viewers find it objectionable,” NBC said at the time.

    The video published Tuesday captures LaPierre and Makris on another elephant hunt. After an animal is spotted and LaPierre prepares to fire, a guide instructs him to wait. But LaPierre, wearing earplugs, does not hear the instructions, he later says.

    His first shot lands off-screen. LaPierre asks, “Did we get him?” The guide locates the downed elephant and points out where LaPierre should fire a fatal round. LaPierre fires two more shots from only a few feet away.

    “I’m not sure where you’re shooting,” the guide says.

    “Where are you telling me to shoot?” LaPierre asks.

    The guide moves forward and points out a place near the ear — a recommended target to pierce the animal’s brain. He fires his fourth shot and misses again.

    The guide laughs and suggests to Makris he finish up. He fires a shot. “That’s it,” the guide says.

    Makris downplays his own role, however.

    “You dropped him like no tomorrow,” he tells LaPierre.

    LaPierre’s wife, Susan, kills her own elephant with better marksmanship than her husband — after shooting a tusked elephant in the head, the guide directs where to shoot it in the chest to ensure it’s dead. Her second shot wins approval from the group, and she laughs with relief.

    The guide says it’s a hunter custom to cut the tail off a dead elephant so it cannot be claimed by someone else.

    Susan LaPierre saws through the hide with a knife and raises it to the sky.

    “Victory,” she says.

    African elephants are endangered, according to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN). The African forest elephant population has fallen by more than 86 percent over about the past three decades, according to the organization, while the number of African savanna elephants has dropped at least 60 percent over the past half-century. The group points to poaching and loss of habitat, and Botswana’s government has spoken about the benefits of legalized elephant hunts.

    Critics called the gory display in Tuesday’s video disturbing. “This is disgusting,” tweeted MSNBC host Joy-Ann Reid.

    “We’re in the midst of a poaching epidemic, and rich trophy hunters like the NRA chief are blasting away at elephants while the international community calls for stiffer penalties for poachers — what message does that send?” Tanya Sanerib, international legal director at the Center for Biological Diversity, said in a statement.

    The video’s release comes as the NRA is embroiled in messy legal battles.

    After the group was sued last year by New York Attorney General Letitia James for violating state charity laws, NRA leaders announced the organization was declaring bankruptcy and moving to Texas largely to avoid the New York lawsuit. James claimed LaPierre and other executives enriched themselves at the expense of the tax-exempt organization and its 5 million members — and she sought dissolution of the NRA, which was originally chartered in New York state.

    James and others have contested the NRA bankruptcy filing and asked the federal bankruptcy court judge to appoint an independent trustee to run the organization. The trial has revealed flaws in the NRA’s fiscal management through the years, including payments made to Ackerman McQueen, one of the group’s leading outside contractors.

    “Under Wild Skies” is hosted and owned by Makris, but Ackerman McQueen is not otherwise associated with the venture.

    The video was filmed in mid-2013, months after the December 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., which resulted in the deaths of 20 children and six adults. Under LaPierre’s leadership, the NRA opposed a regulatory response championed by gun-control advocates at the time.

    Wayne LaPierre elephant video: NRA head struggles in Botswana hunt, drawing derisive reactions - The Washington Post

    I’d like to see him get stomped by an elephant/elephants! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,504
    nicknyr15 said:
    https://nypost.com/2021/04/30/peter-luger-shooting-victim-says-you-go-out-to-dinner-and-thats-what-happens/

    Good Times! We can go out to eat in restaurants now! And dodge bullets while eating steak. 
    Only in America! 

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,590

    What rarely gets discussed. Freedumb.


    Gun injuries put over a half-million people in hospitals from 2000 to 2016, study finds

    First-of-its-kind database provides state-level estimates of gun hospitalizations over time

    Tens of thousands of people are admitted to hospitals for gun injuries every year, according to a first-of-its-kind database that underscores how the societal costs of gun violence extend well beyond mortality.

    Developed by researchers at the Rand Corp., a California-based think tank, the study found roughly 550,000 people were admitted for gunshot wounds from 2000 to 2016, representing billions of dollars in health-care costs annually, as well as untold pain and suffering.

    The data comes as narrow Democratic control of Congress and the White House has ushered in hopes among advocates for new policies intended to curb gun violence in the United States. A spate of high-profile mass shootings in 2021 has ratcheted up pressure on lawmakers to act.

    Much of the research on gun control deals with homicide and suicide data because state and federal governments typically keep detailed records of how and when people die. But injuries also exact a considerable economic and public health toll: Gun-related hospital visits account for an estimated $2.8 billion in health-care spending annually, as well as billions more when lost work and wages are factored in.

    2017 study found that the average gunshot patient incurred hospital costs of more than $95,000.

    Precise numbers for those hospitalizations, however, have previously been unavailable. There’s no comprehensive national database of gunshot injuries, for instance. And as the Rand researchers found, the quality of hospitalization data varies widely from state to state.

    Some independent researchers, such as those with the Gun Violence Archive, have been compiling data on gun injuries based on media and police reports and other public records. But not all shootings leave that kind of paper trail.

    The Rand data include estimates of gun-related hospitalizations for all 50 states from 2000 through 2016. The people behind the database hope their work will allow other researchers to better understand how state-level policies influence gun violence.

    “Accurate data on firearm-related injuries are essential, and these hospitalization data will see widespread use,” said Garen Wintemute, a gun violence researcher at the University of California at Davis, who was not involved with the study.

    “Previous work [on the effects of gun violence] primarily focused just on firearm deaths because injury estimates like we have produced are not available for every state,” said Andrew Morral, the director of Rand’s Gun Policy in America project, which produced the report. To fill in the gaps, Morral and his colleagues drew on a variety of sources, including state and federal databases, crime reports, hospital admission data, household surveys and emergency department data.

    By combining and extrapolating from these sources, they were able to produce estimates of gun-related hospitalizations in cases where data was incomplete or missing altogether.

    The researchers note their estimate of roughly 550,000 total admissions is almost certainly an undercount of gunshot victims: People with minor injuries may not seek hospital care, for instance, and wouldn’t show up in this data. Nor would anyone treated in the emergency room and released without being admitted.

    At the state level, gun injuries roughly track the better-known homicide data. Louisiana leads the nation with an average of 24 gun hospitalizations for every 100,000 people each year. At the bottom of the list is Hawaii, with less than one-tenth the injury rate of Louisiana.

    The authors did some preliminary work on the correlations of gun injury and made a surprising finding: At the state level, gun ownership rates aren’t closely correlated with gun hospitalizations.

    "This is a little surprising,” Morral said. There’s a well-known relationship between gun ownership and suicide, for instance. But that relationship doesn’t apparently extend to gun injuries. Morral said that injuries, however, are closely correlated with rates of violent crime overall. And that suggests another driver: poverty.

    The relationship between poverty and violent crime is well documented in the United States and elsewhere. According to the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, for instance, people living in poor households “had more than double the rate of violent victimization” than those in high-income areas.

    2018 Brookings Institution analysis found that “boys who grew up in families in the bottom 10 percent of the income distribution — families earning less than about $14,000 — are 20 times more likely to be in prison on a given day in their early 30s than children born to the wealthiest families — those earning more than $143,000.”

    The correlation between state-level poverty rates and gun hospitalizations is apparent in the chart above. The relationship between hardship and gun deaths is even tighter.

    Looking at the trends over time, Rand’s data shows that gun hospitalizations are basically flat through 2016. While data is not yet available for the following years, recent increases in the homicide rate suggest that gun injuries will probably creep upward, too.

    Morral and his colleagues hope the new data set will pave the way for better research into how state-level policy changes affect rates of gun violence. The variation between states “can be useful for evaluating the impact of state firearm policies or other state-level factors that are hypothesized to influence firearm injury and might be a useful predictor of other phenomena at the state level,” they write.

    The data could also lead to better accounting of the economic toll of gun violence in the United States.

    Gun injuries put over a half-million people in hospitals from 2000 to 2016, study finds - The Washington Post

    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 8,693
    Guns don't  kill people 

    The children of gun owners shoot and or kill people...


  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,590
    Guns don't  kill people 

    The children of gun owners shoot and or kill people...


    Nothing can be done.
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,136
    Guns don't  kill people 

    The children of gun owners shoot and or kill people...


    Nothing can be done.
    Lies. You can provide a few thoughts. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,852
    mrussel1 said:
    Guns don't  kill people 

    The children of gun owners shoot and or kill people...


    Nothing can be done.
    Lies. You can provide a few thoughts. 

    AND prayers.

    makes for a full day.
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,136
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Guns don't  kill people 

    The children of gun owners shoot and or kill people...


    Nothing can be done.
    Lies. You can provide a few thoughts. 

    AND prayers.

    makes for a full day.
    Very busy. 
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