America's Gun Violence

cincybearcat

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

Guys and girls - it’s way to early to be talking about this. Need to find the sweet spot between mass shootings to have a conversation about gun control/mental health/bullying/video games or whatever you believe needs to be talked about.

at this point the only thing that can and should be done is to send lots and lots of thoughts and lots and lots prayers!

You are oblivious.  Must be nice living in a bubble and not seeing the clear and present danger of too many exits in America's schools.  Snowflake.

It’s too soon to be talking about exits.  Please focus on your thoughts and prayers. 

cincybearcat

josevolution said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

Guys and girls - it’s way to early to be talking about this. Need to find the sweet spot between mass shootings to have a conversation about gun control/mental health/bullying/video games or whatever you believe needs to be talked about.

at this point the only thing that can and should be done is to send lots and lots of thoughts and lots and lots prayers!

You are oblivious.  Must be nice living in a bubble and not seeing the clear and present danger of too many exits in America's schools.  Snowflake.

lol the sarcasm in his post is obvious !

Yeah I thought my previous posts in this thread would have made that pretty clear.

mrussel1

cincybearcat said:

josevolution said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

Guys and girls - it’s way to early to be talking about this. Need to find the sweet spot between mass shootings to have a conversation about gun control/mental health/bullying/video games or whatever you believe needs to be talked about.

at this point the only thing that can and should be done is to send lots and lots of thoughts and lots and lots prayers!

You are oblivious.  Must be nice living in a bubble and not seeing the clear and present danger of too many exits in America's schools.  Snowflake.

lol the sarcasm in his post is obvious !

Yeah I thought my previous posts in this thread would have made that pretty clear.

Ha.. and mine

PJPOWER

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

Smellyman

Video Games are the new 'Devil's Music'

oftenreading

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

PJPOWER

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

So what’s your plan for making them go away?  I can think of a few other geographical/cultural differences that makes the US a bit different than Australia as well, can you?

oftenreading

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

So what’s your plan for making them go away?  I can think of a few other geographical/cultural differences that makes the US a bit different than Australia as well, can you?

I know it’s a difficult truth to believe, but the facts are clear.

Sure, Australia is different from the US. Canada, too. And England. And Sweden. And Argentina.  But you know what? All of those countries are different from each other, and none of them have the levels of gun violence that the USA does. 

This argument is really just another case of the belief in “American exceptionalism”; that the US is really special and somehow different from the rest of the world. Well, it isn’t; it just has a lot more guns. 
 

PJPOWER

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

So what’s your plan for making them go away?  I can think of a few other geographical/cultural differences that makes the US a bit different than Australia as well, can you?

I know it’s a difficult truth to believe, but the facts are clear.

Sure, Australia is different from the US. Canada, too. And England. And Sweden. And Argentina.  But you know what? All of those countries are different from each other, and none of them have the levels of gun violence that the USA does. 

This argument is really just another case of the belief in “American exceptionalism”; that the US is really special and somehow different from the rest of the world. Well, it isn’t; it just has a lot more guns. 
 

So what is your solution?  Since the US is not exceptional in any way or another, why is it so hard to implement the same gun laws as Australia?  Do you think it is actually possible to implement similar gun laws as Australia and do you think they would have the same effect on gun violence in the USA if implemented?

mrussel1

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

So what’s your plan for making them go away?  I can think of a few other geographical/cultural differences that makes the US a bit different than Australia as well, can you?

I know it’s a difficult truth to believe, but the facts are clear.

Sure, Australia is different from the US. Canada, too. And England. And Sweden. And Argentina.  But you know what? All of those countries are different from each other, and none of them have the levels of gun violence that the USA does. 

This argument is really just another case of the belief in “American exceptionalism”; that the US is really special and somehow different from the rest of the world. Well, it isn’t; it just has a lot more guns. 
 

So what is your solution?  Since the US is not exceptional in any way or another, why is it so hard to implement the same gun laws as Australia?  Do you think it is actually possible to implement similar gun laws as Australia and do you think they would have the same effect on gun violence in the USA if implemented?

There is no single solution. There are a series of reforms that can be taken in order to reduce the violence and the scale.  You've read the posts, you are just choosing to ignore them.  There is no magic bullet that preserves the 2A, under the definition that even Scalia supported in Heller v. DC.  But just because there is no one solution, doesn't mean you don't implement a series of reforms.  

PJPOWER

mrussel1 said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

So what’s your plan for making them go away?  I can think of a few other geographical/cultural differences that makes the US a bit different than Australia as well, can you?

I know it’s a difficult truth to believe, but the facts are clear.

Sure, Australia is different from the US. Canada, too. And England. And Sweden. And Argentina.  But you know what? All of those countries are different from each other, and none of them have the levels of gun violence that the USA does. 

This argument is really just another case of the belief in “American exceptionalism”; that the US is really special and somehow different from the rest of the world. Well, it isn’t; it just has a lot more guns. 
 

So what is your solution?  Since the US is not exceptional in any way or another, why is it so hard to implement the same gun laws as Australia?  Do you think it is actually possible to implement similar gun laws as Australia and do you think they would have the same effect on gun violence in the USA if implemented?

There is no single solution. There are a series of reforms that can be taken in order to reduce the violence and the scale.  You've read the posts, you are just choosing to ignore them.  There is no magic bullet that preserves the 2A, under the definition that even Scalia supported in Heller v. DC.  But just because there is no one solution, doesn't mean you don't implement a series of reforms.  

Are you saying that the US is exceptional because of the 2A?  I haven’t seen too many judges saying that the 2A is going away any time soon...I guess we’ll just wait.  Actually, instead of waiting, I’m going to try educating my children and those I love about how to avoid gun accidents and how to act around crazy people...I do not need to wait for a law to do that.  I do not see guns (or the 2A) going away any time soon and I do not see crazy people going away any time soon.  

oftenreading

As mrussel says, there is a whole host of actions that can be taken, but these have been mostly dismissed by the group who prefers to maintain unfettered gun access despite the cost. 

But I’m curious as to what specifically American geographical features you believe contribute to gun violence, pjpower. 

mrussel1

PJPOWER said:

mrussel1 said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

So what’s your plan for making them go away?  I can think of a few other geographical/cultural differences that makes the US a bit different than Australia as well, can you?

I know it’s a difficult truth to believe, but the facts are clear.

Sure, Australia is different from the US. Canada, too. And England. And Sweden. And Argentina.  But you know what? All of those countries are different from each other, and none of them have the levels of gun violence that the USA does. 

This argument is really just another case of the belief in “American exceptionalism”; that the US is really special and somehow different from the rest of the world. Well, it isn’t; it just has a lot more guns. 
 

So what is your solution?  Since the US is not exceptional in any way or another, why is it so hard to implement the same gun laws as Australia?  Do you think it is actually possible to implement similar gun laws as Australia and do you think they would have the same effect on gun violence in the USA if implemented?

There is no single solution. There are a series of reforms that can be taken in order to reduce the violence and the scale.  You've read the posts, you are just choosing to ignore them.  There is no magic bullet that preserves the 2A, under the definition that even Scalia supported in Heller v. DC.  But just because there is no one solution, doesn't mean you don't implement a series of reforms.  

Are you saying that the US is exceptional because of the 2A?  I haven’t seen too many judges saying that the 2A is going away any time soon...I guess we’ll just wait.  Actually, instead of waiting, I’m going to try educating my children and those I love about how to avoid gun accidents and how to act around crazy people...I do not need to wait for a law to do that.  I do not see guns (or the 2A) going away any time soon and I do not see crazy people going away any time soon.  

I don't recall using the word exceptional nor any synonyms related to that word.  Nor did I argue that the 2A was going away. Rather Judge Scalia made very clear in the majority opinion in Heller vs DC that the government can absolutely regulate weapons.  The right isn't unlimited.  Here, I'll help you out:

“Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”

.. “like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited.” It is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

So all of the reforms we have put forward as being options (where you say there are none) would be covered by the majority opinion in this important case.  

oftenreading

PJPOWER said:

mrussel1 said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

So what’s your plan for making them go away?  I can think of a few other geographical/cultural differences that makes the US a bit different than Australia as well, can you?

I know it’s a difficult truth to believe, but the facts are clear.

Sure, Australia is different from the US. Canada, too. And England. And Sweden. And Argentina.  But you know what? All of those countries are different from each other, and none of them have the levels of gun violence that the USA does. 

This argument is really just another case of the belief in “American exceptionalism”; that the US is really special and somehow different from the rest of the world. Well, it isn’t; it just has a lot more guns. 
 

So what is your solution?  Since the US is not exceptional in any way or another, why is it so hard to implement the same gun laws as Australia?  Do you think it is actually possible to implement similar gun laws as Australia and do you think they would have the same effect on gun violence in the USA if implemented?

There is no single solution. There are a series of reforms that can be taken in order to reduce the violence and the scale.  You've read the posts, you are just choosing to ignore them.  There is no magic bullet that preserves the 2A, under the definition that even Scalia supported in Heller v. DC.  But just because there is no one solution, doesn't mean you don't implement a series of reforms.  

Are you saying that the US is exceptional because of the 2A?  I haven’t seen too many judges saying that the 2A is going away any time soon...I guess we’ll just wait.  Actually, instead of waiting, I’m going to try educating my children and those I love about how to avoid gun accidents and how to act around crazy people...I do not need to wait for a law to do that.  I do not see guns (or the 2A) going away any time soon and I do not see crazy people going away any time soon.  

So, all the kids who got shot in school this year simply didn't act properly around "crazy people"? What about the people shot in Vegas? In church by Roof? In the movie theatre in Colorado? 

I'm curious about what you are going to teach those you love about avoiding those situations.  Also, still curious about your point about "geographical features". 

mcgruff10

I have always been about training and safety so I think this is a positive step:
http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2018/05/hs_students_fire_real_guns.html

N.J. teens shot guns this weekend and thought it was 'really cool'

Sebastian Mongeau fulfilled a lifelong ambition on Sunday.

"I always wanted to shoot a gun since I was a kid," said Sebastion, who at 14 years old arguably still is one.

But now the brawny Lacey High School freshman is a kid who's fired not only a 9mm Glock pistol, but also a fearsome Stag Arms AR-10 semi-automatic rifle, thanks to an event titled, "Common Sense Gun Safety Training for Students," on Sunday, organized in response to an incident in March that angered Second Amendment activists and parents in the generally gun-friendly Ocean County community.

So how was his first pull of a real, live trigger?

"It was really cool," said Sebastian, who now more than ever wants his own Desert Eagle semi-automatic handgun.

"I thought it would have more kick," added Sebastian, who got a ride to the event at a Middlesex County gun range from his half-brother, John Barrow, 24, also of Lacey. 

The event was held at the Union Hill Gun Club in Monroe, organized by the president of the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Alexander Roubian, in response to the disciplining of two Lacey High School students after one of them had posted a photo on Facebook taken at a gun range they were visiting with adults during non-school hours.

No threat of violence accompanied the photo and no criminal activity was ever alleged by authorities. And Roubian was one of 200 or so people who packed a  school board meeting where district officials were repeatedly accused of meddling in a perfectly legal family activity, off campus and after school hours. One father was cheered after telling school officials, "It's none of your damn business what our children do outside of school."

Participants in Sunday's free event were given a safety briefing by the gun club's chief instructor and safety officer, Rocco La Rocca II, a National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor and counselor. La Rocca also runs a self-defense training firm known as ROC -- "Recognize, Organize, Counteract" -- based at Union Hill Gun Club, a two-story indoor shooting range owned by Paul and Beth Picone that also includes the Legend Firearms gun shop, tucked away on a wooded stretch on Union Hill Road.

The Lacey school district was not officially involved in the event.

During Sunday's briefing, participants were given a list of safety precautions, including these three "NRA Gun Safety Rules": 

• Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction
• Keep your finger off the shoot trigger until ready to shoot
• keep the gun unloaded until ready to use

• To those, La Rocca added two more points:

  • Always assume a firearm is loaded and act accordingly.
  • When forced to use a gun, be mindful not only of what or who your target is, but also of what, or who, is behind it.

  Sunday's event was two days after the nation's latest mass school shooting, when eight students and two teachers were killed on Friday in Santa Fe, Texas, where authorities say a 17-year-old student used a shotgun and a handgun legally owned by his father and kept in the attic of their house. 

  Asked how gun safety education might minimize the chances of harm in mass shootings like Friday's, La Rocca did not hesitate to hold parents accountable.

  "Very simple, the parents themselves should know that firearms themselves are mechanical devices that can injure somebody or themselves," La Rocca said in n interview after the briefing. "Why don't you lock them up? Why don't you do that? Why don't you buy a safe? I've had some (adult) students come in my class and say, 'Oh, no, it's fine, it's in the drawer.' No it's not. No it's not. Get a safe." 

  A Rutgers survey of gun-safety studies recently published in Health Promotion Practice found that safety training is unlikely to prevent harmful or fatal mishaps when guns are accessible to young children. The survey found that:

  • Children ages 4-9 who participate in gun safety programs often ignore what they learned when encountering a real firearm without adult supervision
  • Boys are more likely to ignore safety rules than girls
  • Few studies have been done on gun safety programs for children beyond 4th grade.

PJPOWER

mrussel1 said:

PJPOWER said:

mrussel1 said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

So what’s your plan for making them go away?  I can think of a few other geographical/cultural differences that makes the US a bit different than Australia as well, can you?

I know it’s a difficult truth to believe, but the facts are clear.

Sure, Australia is different from the US. Canada, too. And England. And Sweden. And Argentina.  But you know what? All of those countries are different from each other, and none of them have the levels of gun violence that the USA does. 

This argument is really just another case of the belief in “American exceptionalism”; that the US is really special and somehow different from the rest of the world. Well, it isn’t; it just has a lot more guns. 
 

So what is your solution?  Since the US is not exceptional in any way or another, why is it so hard to implement the same gun laws as Australia?  Do you think it is actually possible to implement similar gun laws as Australia and do you think they would have the same effect on gun violence in the USA if implemented?

There is no single solution. There are a series of reforms that can be taken in order to reduce the violence and the scale.  You've read the posts, you are just choosing to ignore them.  There is no magic bullet that preserves the 2A, under the definition that even Scalia supported in Heller v. DC.  But just because there is no one solution, doesn't mean you don't implement a series of reforms.  

Are you saying that the US is exceptional because of the 2A?  I haven’t seen too many judges saying that the 2A is going away any time soon...I guess we’ll just wait.  Actually, instead of waiting, I’m going to try educating my children and those I love about how to avoid gun accidents and how to act around crazy people...I do not need to wait for a law to do that.  I do not see guns (or the 2A) going away any time soon and I do not see crazy people going away any time soon.  

I don't recall using the word exceptional nor any synonyms related to that word.  Nor did I argue that the 2A was going away. Rather Judge Scalia made very clear in the majority opinion in Heller vs DC that the government can absolutely regulate weapons.  The right isn't unlimited.  Here, I'll help you out:

“Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”

.. “like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited.” It is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

So all of the reforms we have put forward as being options (where you say there are none) would be covered by the majority opinion in this important case.  

Hey, I actually agree with some of your mentioned reforms on paper.  But I question the ability to actually enforce any of those.  Nothing would please me more than for a person to get major penalties for improper storage resulting in a crime being committed, because negligence makes non-negligent gun owners look bad.  I question the biometric technology l and do not think many would go for it at this point, but maybe it would be more feasible and lack a few of the quarks in the future.  But some of the hardline approaches that occasionally get thrown out (not by you specifically) make even the simplest changes tenable.  When the “anti gunners” (not referring to you, but you know the type i’m referring to) dig their heals in and make their “demands”, the pro gun crowd does too and nothing changes.  There is this whole “give an inch take a mile” mentality in much of the pro-2A world right now that has to be addressed first and with the current polarized political climate...I do not see anything in the way of current constitutional amendments favoring the gun control crowd happening any time soon.  Going to have to broaden the focus and think outside the box a bit to make any meaningful changes over the next 100 years or so.

mrussel1

I'm not recommending that you proactively enforce any law by barging into a home to check if a weapon is secured.  However, if it's the law, and gun owners follow the law, then it's reasonable to assume the will secure them.  However, as an example the Santa Fe situation, if the owner of the weapons failed to secure them, there would be statutory criminal liability for failing to do so.  

I don't buy the hard line argument.  There are hard liners on every side of an issue.  What matters is what is put before legislation.  And the reality is that the NRA has not supported any measures.  They feigned support of the banning of bump stocks originally, but killed it when it came out of committee, claiming it should come from the ATF, not Congress.  Shockingly, Trump's ATF has failed to act.  

PJPOWER

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

mrussel1 said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

oftenreading said:

PJPOWER said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

LongestRoad said:

Desensitized children due to violence glorified on the screen,violent video games meant for adults being played by children, media demonizing authority. They do what they're taught by role models and what's glorified by what they see everyday. 

lol @ violent video games. Dude, many of us in Australia including myself and my friends grew up playing violent video games and watching violent shows and movies.
None of us turned out to be mass murderers. 

Interesting, many of us in the USA, including myself grew up hunting/shooting guns.  None of us turned out to be mass murderers either.

This is just a version of “my grandfather smoked and he still lived to the age of 80”. 

No one is claiming that every gun owner/user is going to become a murderer. People are claiming, with a lot of data to justify it, that the high prevalence of gun users/owners in the USA is really the only difference to account for the high rate of gun violence. It’s that simple. 

So what’s your plan for making them go away?  I can think of a few other geographical/cultural differences that makes the US a bit different than Australia as well, can you?

I know it’s a difficult truth to believe, but the facts are clear.

Sure, Australia is different from the US. Canada, too. And England. And Sweden. And Argentina.  But you know what? All of those countries are different from each other, and none of them have the levels of gun violence that the USA does. 

This argument is really just another case of the belief in “American exceptionalism”; that the US is really special and somehow different from the rest of the world. Well, it isn’t; it just has a lot more guns. 
 

So what is your solution?  Since the US is not exceptional in any way or another, why is it so hard to implement the same gun laws as Australia?  Do you think it is actually possible to implement similar gun laws as Australia and do you think they would have the same effect on gun violence in the USA if implemented?

There is no single solution. There are a series of reforms that can be taken in order to reduce the violence and the scale.  You've read the posts, you are just choosing to ignore them.  There is no magic bullet that preserves the 2A, under the definition that even Scalia supported in Heller v. DC.  But just because there is no one solution, doesn't mean you don't implement a series of reforms.  

Are you saying that the US is exceptional because of the 2A?  I haven’t seen too many judges saying that the 2A is going away any time soon...I guess we’ll just wait.  Actually, instead of waiting, I’m going to try educating my children and those I love about how to avoid gun accidents and how to act around crazy people...I do not need to wait for a law to do that.  I do not see guns (or the 2A) going away any time soon and I do not see crazy people going away any time soon.  

So, all the kids who got shot in school this year simply didn't act properly around "crazy people"? What about the people shot in Vegas? In church by Roof? In the movie theatre in Colorado? 

I'm curious about what you are going to teach those you love about avoiding those situations.  Also, still curious about your point about "geographical features". 

There you go jumping to words like “all”.  Do you think that situational awareness helped “none” of the people get out of these situations alive?  Do you think that panicking got “some” of the people killed?  You say that there are a number of things that can be done, but think it is stupid to teach people how to act out in public and how to spot warning signs?  Nowhere did I say that these things would stop “all”, but they are logical steps that I can take on a personal front that doesn’t involve waiting for legislation.
By geography, I was referring to proximity to criminal ridden locations or connected to crime ridden countries with a proliferation of drug trafficking/gangs.  Australia has some natural borders and a way lower population than the US that decreases the propensity of these burdens that should be taken into account when comparing nations and effective policies.
Again, what is your solution?  Bitching about it online?

Bentleyspop

Some numbers to reinforce the problem in this country....  

Since 2009 there has been 288 school shootings in the United States. 
In the rest  of the world there has been 29.
That's the USA over the world by 10-1.

Am I the only person bothered by this?

Gern Blansten

My position has been that we will eventually get to a point where assault weapons are banned from public ownership, background checks are much stronger and detailed, waiting periods will be federally mandated, and weapons are registered and licensed.  

The piece we have been missing (in my opinion) when these tragedies occur, is for the law enforcement leaders to be more vocal as to what their opinions are.

Here we have feedback from Houston's Chief of Police.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/us/texas-shooting-art-acevedo-guns.html

“I know some have strong feelings about gun rights but I want you to know I’ve hit rock bottom and I am not interested in your views as it pertains to this issue,” he wrote. “Please do not post anything about guns aren’t the problem and there’s little we can do.