America's Gun Violence

callen

unsung said:

callen said:

unsung said:

callen said:

unsung said:

That why I said it was a stupid thing to do.

I trained my girlfriend for two hours straight with the proper handling of a firearm before I'd let her load it.

Ironic thing by giving her a firearm...training or not you just increased her chances of being hurt or killed by a gun....oh and you as well.

There isn't a person here trying to say that it was a smart decision. Who are you trying to convince?

Wasn't referring to Uzi incident. Was referring to your placing your GF at risk for adding a gun to her life.

A gun? That's funny.

Anyway we appreciate your concern, but don't worry we don't need others to tell us what's good for us. We have a handle on that.

Alright didn't mean to get so personal just fell in with my thoughts on guns and injury associated with them. Almost deleted my post but then kinda knew you wouldn't take it wrong or personal.

PJ_Soul

ejleonjr said:

goingtoverona said:

yuppers, I want my guns and I accept the deaths that come with them. just like I accept the deaths that come with cars, alcohol, tobacco, steak knives, etc.
as far as the little girl is concerned, I point my finger at the instructor. should have known the recoil power of the gun and never put it in her hands in the first place. parents are probably gun ignorant and left it to the instructor to make all the decisions.

I would have to say I agree with this statement the most. In the professional world, there are inherent risks that are risk assessed and control measures are put in place to mitigate the risks. Examples are ear plugs, safety glasses, a defined shooting position, etc..
Being a professional business and having professional instructors, it should have been known the recoil of that firearm and the force necessary to control it. It looks like the instructor used a technique to help the child by putting his left hand underneath the firearm and his right hand behind the child. I would have imagined if given a hypothetical situation, that there would have been additional safegaurds in place. Im not here to give answers as to what those safegaurds should be as I am not a professional in that field, but even I know that more could have been in place to prevent this tragedy. Condolences to this mans family, may he rest in peace, and pray that this young girl can overcome this.

So what about the fact that the little girl's life is completely messed up by this? Do we accept the mental trauma that comes to her just because of some instructor made a mistake (which all instructors could do no matter how good they are)?

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

But wait. The NRA is fully in support of 9 year olds or children of any age being trained with any kind of firearm. It may sound stupid to us, but from what I know, the gun advocates stand behind what those parents and little girl were doing there that day.

Please provide a link.

Hmm. What to post, what to post? So many options.... how about this one? http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/03/1961871/after-child-shooting-nra-conference-peddles-guns-for-kids/

Your statement said any age, any firearm. That link doesn't back up your statement.

Well this is pleasant: http://skydamon.com/gt.html

And here it seems that they don't mind a 9 year old playing with an Uzi... they just don't want any wimpy instructors helping them do it. http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/08/27/nra-calls-for-tougher-gun-instructors/

This is great. You just used a parody site to support your case.

You win!

Oh darn, lol. I didn't know it was a parody site. I mean, it is so damn believable. :P Well, I guess eventually it happens to most people if they post online enough. ">
Well I would find the others I found that aren't parody sites - I know how the NRA operates generally. We all do.... but a pile of people just got laid off in my office and the shit's hitting the fan, so it will have to be later.

PJ_Soul

Oh.... everyone was so mad they went home. @-)
Okay, how about this tweet from NRA women, sent less than two days after what happened? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/27/nra-children-gun-range_n_5725674.html That says a lot.

Okay, so after reading a bit about Uzis, as I knew nothing before, this became easier to answer. An Uzi can be classified as either a handgun or a rifle, depending on the model and any modifications to the gun. We all know that the NRA supports training of kids for handguns and rifles, right? Right.

unsung

I don't have issue with that statement from the NRA. Children can have fun but they need training, proper supervision, and firearms that they can handle. There used to be safety classes taught in schools. Children were taught to respect a firearm, to know the safety rules, to understand they are not toys. Kids these days get their education from Call of Duty.

I started out with .22 rimfire lever action rifles. I couldn't handle a full auto Uzi at 9 yo, this was completely irresponsible.

The proper time to train people on the safe use of firearms is when they are young, but a good instructor knows there are limits.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

goingtoverona said:

yuppers, I want my guns and I accept the deaths that come with them. just like I accept the deaths that come with cars, alcohol, tobacco, steak knives, etc.
as far as the little girl is concerned, I point my finger at the instructor. should have known the recoil power of the gun and never put it in her hands in the first place. parents are probably gun ignorant and left it to the instructor to make all the decisions.

Outside of alcohol (which is another debate), the items you listed all have a very useful purpose outside of blowing a hole into something and killing it. Given their useful purposes, the deaths associated with those items' widespread use is something we'll have to live with.

Some guns are useful for hunting. This is why I completely support shotgun and rifle ownership.

However, assault rifles and handguns are for killing people. This is why they should only be in the hands of military personnel and the police. In the hands of common people... they are only good for 'shootin' shit'. Although you are okay with Sandy Hook and various other events featuring a loser, an assault rifle, and dead bodies so you can shoot shit... most people aren't.

The trade off is weak: dead people at the hands of a loser so some people can have a totally rad gun to shoot shit.

gimmesometruth27

9 year old kills instructor with an uzi at the gun range.

this is going to sound really cold and terrible, but i don't feel the least bit bad about the guy dying. he should have known better than to give that gun to a child.

i nominate him for the darwin award.

lukin2006

gimmesometruth27 said:

9 year old kills instructor with an uzi at the gun range.

this is going to sound really cold and terrible, but i don't feel the least bit bad about the guy dying. he should have known better than to give that gun to a child.

i nominate him for the darwin award.

yup ... What about the parents as well? What were they thinking? The entire concept of handing a child that type of weapon is pretty fucked up.

brianlux

Yeah, just heard about the kid with the Uzi. Some really responsible adults involved in that one, huh? Sheesh! #-o

PJ_Soul

gimmesometruth27 said:

9 year old kills instructor with an uzi at the gun range.

this is going to sound really cold and terrible, but i don't feel the least bit bad about the guy dying. he should have known better than to give that gun to a child.

i nominate him for the darwin award.

Weren't her parents standing there? That's who I'm most appalled by.

lukin2006

PJ_Soul said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

9 year old kills instructor with an uzi at the gun range.

this is going to sound really cold and terrible, but i don't feel the least bit bad about the guy dying. he should have known better than to give that gun to a child.

i nominate him for the darwin award.

Weren't her parents standing there? That's who I'm most appalled by.

Pretty fucked up, and that poor child ... to have to deal with that, adults are suppose to be responsible and make good decision for those in their care.

lukin2006

brianlux said:

Yeah, just heard about the kid with the Uzi. Some really responsible adults involved in that one, huh? Sheesh! #-o

agreed

unsung

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

However, assault rifles and handguns are for killing people. This is why they should only be in the hands of military personnel and the police.

You know I was just thinking we could use a Ferguson everyday. Each day lets get a cop to shoot a random person then they can roll out all of their military equipment to show us who is boss while they serve and protect us.

Such a wonderful idea.

Stickman12

PJ_Soul said:

ejleonjr said:

goingtoverona said:

yuppers, I want my guns and I accept the deaths that come with them. just like I accept the deaths that come with cars, alcohol, tobacco, steak knives, etc.
as far as the little girl is concerned, I point my finger at the instructor. should have known the recoil power of the gun and never put it in her hands in the first place. parents are probably gun ignorant and left it to the instructor to make all the decisions.

I would have to say I agree with this statement the most. In the professional world, there are inherent risks that are risk assessed and control measures are put in place to mitigate the risks. Examples are ear plugs, safety glasses, a defined shooting position, etc..
Being a professional business and having professional instructors, it should have been known the recoil of that firearm and the force necessary to control it. It looks like the instructor used a technique to help the child by putting his left hand underneath the firearm and his right hand behind the child. I would have imagined if given a hypothetical situation, that there would have been additional safegaurds in place. Im not here to give answers as to what those safegaurds should be as I am not a professional in that field, but even I know that more could have been in place to prevent this tragedy. Condolences to this mans family, may he rest in peace, and pray that this young girl can overcome this.

So what about the fact that the little girl's life is completely messed up by this? Do we accept the mental trauma that comes to her just because of some instructor made a mistake (which all instructors could do no matter how good they are)?

I would say that we do not know what short term or long term affects will come to this little girl. We do not know anything about this girl and her family other than this story. I know people, including myself, have strong opinions when it comes to firearms but when you have a situation where there is an accident and not an intentional shooting, I focus more on reflection, sympathy, and support. Right now the focus should be on healing and support.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

However, assault rifles and handguns are for killing people. This is why they should only be in the hands of military personnel and the police.

You know I was just thinking we could use a Ferguson everyday. Each day lets get a cop to shoot a random person then they can roll out all of their military equipment to show us who is boss while they serve and protect us.

Such a wonderful idea.

You think they should stay inside when rioters and looters are tearing apart a town?

unsung

That's not my point.

If only the police were armed I believe the abuse would be far worse than it is now.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

That's not my point.

If only the police were armed I believe the abuse would be far worse than it is now.

You think the thought of someone owning an AR-15 keeps the police in check?

Gern Blansten

I believe that the police being militarized is a direct result of our moronic gun laws. Police have to approach every situation like we are all armed with AR-15s. Look at the kid in Ohio who was gunned down for playing with a bb gun in Wal-Mart. Ohio is an open carry state....I said it in my other thread, we had better get used to this crap.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Gern Blansten said:

I believe that the police being militarized is a direct result of our moronic gun laws. Police have to approach every situation like we are all armed with AR-15s. Look at the kid in Ohio who was gunned down for playing with a bb gun in Wal-Mart. Ohio is an open carry state....I said it in my other thread, we had better get used to this crap.

Absolutely.

PJ_Soul

unsung said:

That's not my point.

If only the police were armed I believe the abuse would be far worse than it is now.

Why do you think that? How does it help for civilians to be armed against police? You think that the police would be MORE aggressive that they've been if they could know that civilians are not armed? Or did you have something else in mind?

callen

gimmesometruth27 said:

9 year old kills instructor with an uzi at the gun range.

this is going to sound really cold and terrible, but i don't feel the least bit bad about the guy dying. he should have known better than to give that gun to a child.

i nominate him for the darwin award.

And girl likely won't have guns and breed with gun owner. Unfortunately the breeders will overcome this reduction. Idiocracy.

callen

Gern Blansten said:

I believe that the police being militarized is a direct result of our moronic gun laws. Police have to approach every situation like we are all armed with AR-15s. Look at the kid in Ohio who was gunned down for playing with a bb gun in Wal-Mart. Ohio is an open carry state....I said it in my other thread, we had better get used to this crap.

Same with robbers. They also now think victim may have a gun. Trigger happy and or just start blazing.

blueandwhite

unsung said:

That's not my point.

If only the police were armed I believe the abuse would be far worse than it is now.

In America perhaps. It seems to me that it works pretty well in many other industrialized nations. Heck, even with so many Americans being armed, how many stories are there about people defending themselves from crooked police officers? If Michael Brown was armed you know that it would likely have be used against him to justify his murder. He would either be considered a cop-killer or branded an armed thug deserving of death. I just don't see how a gun would have helped him in this situation.

gimmesometruth27

lukin2006 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

9 year old kills instructor with an uzi at the gun range.

this is going to sound really cold and terrible, but i don't feel the least bit bad about the guy dying. he should have known better than to give that gun to a child.

i nominate him for the darwin award.

yup ... What about the parents as well? What were they thinking? The entire concept of handing a child that type of weapon is pretty fucked up.

if i were the wife or child of the instructor, i think i would be calling an attorney to see about suing these parents.

lukin2006

chadwick

edit.
wrong thread

Thirty Bills Unpaid

lukin2006 said:

Even Ozzy Osbourne gets it.

JimmyV

Enough.

http://youtu.be/64G5FfG2Xpg

callen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHD76Io46U

Think Ed sums up well.

unsung

JimmyV said:

Enough.

http://youtu.be/64G5FfG2Xpg

I wonder how many of those rich celebrities employ armed bodyguards.

Nothing like good 'ol hashtag activism though.

PJ_Soul

unsung said:

JimmyV said:

Enough.

http://youtu.be/64G5FfG2Xpg

I wonder how many of those rich celebrities employ armed bodyguards.

Nothing like good 'ol hashtag activism though.

Better than no activism.