Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
Yeah, that's my point: Canadians are different in their mindset about it. RCMP wielding assault weapons at a ceremony is offensive to Canadians, and alarming. We don't think of guns in the same way as Americans do. And while guns are indeed scary and dangerous, our lack of gun culture is not about guns looking scary. It's because we are actually not scared, and therefore don't feel that we need to be oppressed by guns. We don't want that kind of fear, and gun culture creates that kind of fear.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Wow, there has really been some insightful posts since I last visited this thread yesterday! I have really enjoyed catching up. Less focus on debate and differences, more focus on discussion and experiences. More of a unified feel, even though our cultures and experiences may be altogether different.
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
They probably looked scary
Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.
I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.
Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.
I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.
The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.
The current legal format makes it illegal for felons, people with mental illness, illegal aliens, those convicted of domestic violence, drug addicts, people dishonorably discharged from the military and those who have renounced their citizenship to own guns.
The laws we already have aren't being enforced.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
mickeyrat brings up a good point which I agree with, but even if all of these individuals holding the guns are trained professionals the concern stands. Many of us (I would hazard a guess it's most of us, but I don't know that there are any stats on this) don't want to have these weapons present at such events. Their presence completely changes the atmosphere, and for the vast, vast majority of times we don't need them. There is really no need to give in to this assumption that such weapons are necessary or desirable.
So, you are concerned about people charged with the safety and protection of your citizens having guns? Even though they are trained?
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
They probably looked scary
Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.
I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.
Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.
I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.
The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.
While part of me agrees with you a part of me still believes that the current laws need to be enforced before any new laws are put in place. Our current laws are just not being enforced enough to make any change. Also this is a "never satisfied" subject. New laws, restrictions, regulations, and standards could be put in place but you will never have complete compliance. Someone will choose to do use a firearm in a crime despite any of the above mentioned. Then what?? More laws and regulations?? Let's really push to enforce current laws with strict penalties, let's put some resources behind understanding and treating mental illnesses, let's be proactive to keeping guns out of criminals hands instead of reactive. The end goal is the same from both sides. Reduce gun violence and crime.
This.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
They probably looked scary
Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.
I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.
Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.
I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.
The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.
The current legal format makes it illegal for felons, people with mental illness, illegal aliens, those convicted of domestic violence, drug addicts, people dishonorably discharged from the military and those who have renounced their citizenship to own guns.
The laws we already have aren't being enforced.
And the laws are being broken. Don't forget about this little portion of the equation.
Again... PEOPLE... incapable of playing nicely with others- creating a need to develop safer and more definitive gun legislation (dealing with handguns and assault rifles in my mind).
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
mickeyrat brings up a good point which I agree with, but even if all of these individuals holding the guns are trained professionals the concern stands. Many of us (I would hazard a guess it's most of us, but I don't know that there are any stats on this) don't want to have these weapons present at such events. Their presence completely changes the atmosphere, and for the vast, vast majority of times we don't need them. There is really no need to give in to this assumption that such weapons are necessary or desirable.
So, you are concerned about people charged with the safety and protection of your citizens having guns? Even though they are trained?
Asked and answered.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
They probably looked scary
Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.
I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.
Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.
I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.
The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.
The current legal format makes it illegal for felons, people with mental illness, illegal aliens, those convicted of domestic violence, drug addicts, people dishonorably discharged from the military and those who have renounced their citizenship to own guns.
The laws we already have aren't being enforced.
And the laws are being broken. Don't forget about this little portion of the equation.
Again... PEOPLE... incapable of playing nicely with others- creating a need to develop safer and more definitive gun legislation (dealing with handguns and assault rifles in my mind).
Of course the laws are being broken. They are poorly enforced. New laws would likely be the same.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
mickeyrat brings up a good point which I agree with, but even if all of these individuals holding the guns are trained professionals the concern stands. Many of us (I would hazard a guess it's most of us, but I don't know that there are any stats on this) don't want to have these weapons present at such events. Their presence completely changes the atmosphere, and for the vast, vast majority of times we don't need them. There is really no need to give in to this assumption that such weapons are necessary or desirable.
So, you are concerned about people charged with the safety and protection of your citizens having guns? Even though they are trained?
Asked and answered.
So you must really object to private ownership of guns by civilians.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
mickeyrat brings up a good point which I agree with, but even if all of these individuals holding the guns are trained professionals the concern stands. Many of us (I would hazard a guess it's most of us, but I don't know that there are any stats on this) don't want to have these weapons present at such events. Their presence completely changes the atmosphere, and for the vast, vast majority of times we don't need them. There is really no need to give in to this assumption that such weapons are necessary or desirable.
So, you are concerned about people charged with the safety and protection of your citizens having guns? Even though they are trained?
Asked and answered.
So you must really object to private ownership of guns by civilians.
In case you aren't familiar with the typical usage of "asked and answered", it means that I have already provided my answer, not that you get to provide your own answer for me.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
mickeyrat brings up a good point which I agree with, but even if all of these individuals holding the guns are trained professionals the concern stands. Many of us (I would hazard a guess it's most of us, but I don't know that there are any stats on this) don't want to have these weapons present at such events. Their presence completely changes the atmosphere, and for the vast, vast majority of times we don't need them. There is really no need to give in to this assumption that such weapons are necessary or desirable.
So, you are concerned about people charged with the safety and protection of your citizens having guns? Even though they are trained?
Asked and answered.
So you must really object to private ownership of guns by civilians.
In case you aren't familiar with the typical usage of "asked and answered", it means that I have already provided my answer, not that you get to provide your own answer for me.
I'm plenty familiar with your response. And, I'm not trying to provide an answer for you.
Maybe it's the difference between our cultures but I can't imagine why one would object to military and law enforcement officers being armed. If one does make such objection, it must be unfathomable for civilians to be armed.
I understand and respect your position, I was just hoping for a little more of your perspective so that I could better understand.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
People on these forums crack me up. Anti gunners make fun of pro gun because they want "assault weapons", stock up, hoard ammo or prepare because they don't trust the government. Same people feel worried/scared/intimated because the government trains individuals to carry actual assault weapons in public.
Often... have you expressed that you don't want the RCMP armed? Has anyone?
I haven't ever expressed that, no. I can't speak for everybody else but I don't recall reading that here.
I read that the "concern stands" with regard to the presence of guns in the hands of the RCMP at events, that it "changes the atmosphere" and that they are rarely needed.
Maybe I have reading comprehension issues today but could you please explain why the "concern stands"?
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Often... have you expressed that you don't want the RCMP armed? Has anyone?
I haven't ever expressed that, no. I can't speak for everybody else but I don't recall reading that here.
I read that the "concern stands" with regard to the presence of guns in the hands of the RCMP at events, that it "changes the atmosphere" and that they are rarely needed.
Maybe I have reading comprehension issues today but could you please explain why the "concern stands"?
In Canada we can't trust the government so in our naive thinking we feel that government should be unarmed. In the us we have gun rights outlined in our constitution and our thinking is we don't trust the government so we need to arm ourselves to protect family, self and country.
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
mickeyrat brings up a good point which I agree with, but even if all of these individuals holding the guns are trained professionals the concern stands. Many of us (I would hazard a guess it's most of us, but I don't know that there are any stats on this) don't want to have these weapons present at such events. Their presence completely changes the atmosphere, and for the vast, vast majority of times we don't need them. There is really no need to give in to this assumption that such weapons are necessary or desirable.
So, you are concerned about people charged with the safety and protection of your citizens having guns? Even though they are trained?
Asked and answered.
So you must really object to private ownership of guns by civilians.
In case you aren't familiar with the typical usage of "asked and answered", it means that I have already provided my answer, not that you get to provide your own answer for me.
I'm plenty familiar with your response. And, I'm not trying to provide an answer for you.
Maybe it's the difference between our cultures but I can't imagine why one would object to military and law enforcement officers being armed. If one does make such objection, it must be unfathomable for civilians to be armed.
I understand and respect your position, I was just hoping for a little more of your perspective so that I could better understand.
If it helps, I can explain my discomfort at seeing our Gardaí (police) armed. We have never had an armed police force, only specially trained assault teams have been armed and very occasionally deployed to areas like Limerick which have had some issues with gang violence. So when I see an armed Garda, it makes me nervous and uncomfortable because it suggests a level of danger that is unfamiliar to us in Ireland. For the Gardaí to feel the need to arm themselves, it tells us that there is something to fear, so it is the implication of the gun that worries me as much as the idea of them using it. I trust both our government and our police force and I know that they will not use armed force unless they believe it to be absolutely necessary.
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
They probably looked scary
Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.
I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.
Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.
I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.
The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.
The current legal format makes it illegal for felons, people with mental illness, illegal aliens, those convicted of domestic violence, drug addicts, people dishonorably discharged from the military and those who have renounced their citizenship to own guns.
The laws we already have aren't being enforced.
I'm absolutely sure you know (as I have said so to you before) that at a gun show, swap meet, or private sale, I can sell handguns and tactical rifles to any person I choose without regard for whether or not they are "felons, people with mental illness, illegal aliens, those convicted of domestic violence, drug addicts, people dishonorably discharged from the military and those who have renounced their citizenship".
You say enforce the laws that exist, don't make new ones...those laws allow me to sell handguns to gangbangers. Legally.
Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?
I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.
Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.
No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.
Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.
They probably looked scary
Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.
I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.
Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.
I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.
The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.
The current legal format makes it illegal for felons, people with mental illness, illegal aliens, those convicted of domestic violence, drug addicts, people dishonorably discharged from the military and those who have renounced their citizenship to own guns.
The laws we already have aren't being enforced.
I'm absolutely sure you know (as I have said so to you before) that at a gun show, swap meet, or private sale, I can sell handguns and tactical rifles to any person I choose without regard for whether or not they are "felons, people with mental illness, illegal aliens, those convicted of domestic violence, drug addicts, people dishonorably discharged from the military and those who have renounced their citizenship".
You say enforce the laws that exist, don't make new ones...those laws allow me to sell handguns to gangbangers. Legally.
It is against the law for anyone to transfer a firearm or ammunition to anyone known or believed to be prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition. It is against the law (with rare exceptions) for anyone to transfer a handgun to a non-dealer who resides in another state. It is against the law for a non-dealer to transfer any firearm to a non-dealer who resides in another state.
If you search for this, it's not hard to find. Just because you break the law and do not get caught does not mean you haven't broken the law
Comments
The laws we already have aren't being enforced.
Again... PEOPLE... incapable of playing nicely with others- creating a need to develop safer and more definitive gun legislation (dealing with handguns and assault rifles in my mind).
the image portrayed or at least perceived by me is one that starts with how they can serve or be of service vs here with "respect my authority"
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
What you say isn't far from the truth with regards to the development of mind set.
Maybe it's the difference between our cultures but I can't imagine why one would object to military and law enforcement officers being armed. If one does make such objection, it must be unfathomable for civilians to be armed.
I understand and respect your position, I was just hoping for a little more of your perspective so that I could better understand.
We get aways freely here.....!!!
Law of da land..
Maybe I have reading comprehension issues today but could you please explain why the "concern stands"?
You say enforce the laws that exist, don't make new ones...those laws allow me to sell handguns to gangbangers. Legally.
Never laughed so hard in my life. Thank you Canada!!!
It is against the law (with rare exceptions) for anyone to transfer a handgun to a non-dealer who resides in another state.
It is against the law for a non-dealer to transfer any firearm to a non-dealer who resides in another state.
If you search for this, it's not hard to find. Just because you break the law and do not get caught does not mean you haven't broken the law