.. You're correct. The point of the thread is whether or not a citizen can ignore the system of law in this country... a system that is outlined and built by our Constitution... based soley upon the belief that the person does not believe in the law because he/she does not like the law
That we should basically, leave trespassers alone... because they have been trespassing for the past 20 years or so.
yeah.......kinda like illegal border crossing ? Godfather.
... So, am I correct to presume that since you are against illegal immigration (trespassing), then you are also on the side of the Federal Government in the Cliven Bundy case? ... And yes.. I believe that the U.S. NEEDS comprehensive immigration Reform. That is to look at the issue from all sides and seek common ground solutions that are beneficial for businesses that rely on cheap labor and the migrant workers willing to accept those jobs at that pay rate. ... The Bundy situation is completely different. Mr. Bundy is trespassing on Government Owned land. Illegal Immigrants are being hired by American Private citizens to work in Private Sector businesses. See the difference?
Mr. Bundy is not an illegal and what little I do know of this reeks of government control, it seems WACO has tought the fed's something sense they have not killed his family and burned bown his home yet, this is one of those situations that sounds like our government is stepping over it's bounds...bulling a property owner over grazzing land ? but I will admit I have not had time to really check this out.
Godfather.
Except GF he aint being forced off HIS land. Its OUR LAND. That is the issue. Fucking squatter profiting of it too.
That's right, Mickrat. It's subsidized profiteering doing something that only degrades our public lands.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Mr. Bundy is not an illegal and what little I do know of this reeks of government control, it seems WACO has tought the fed's something sense they have not killed his family and burned bown his home yet, this is one of those situations that sounds like our government is stepping over it's bounds...bulling a property owner over grazzing land ? but I will admit I have not had time to really check this out.
Godfather.
... First off, sir... I hope you understand that you don't have to be here illegally to commit crimes in this country. Every day, crimes are being commited by people who are legal citizens of the United States. That is what Mr. Bundy is doing... commiting the crime of criminal trespassing, destruction of public lands, violation of U.S. court orders and failure to pay fines. It is the same thing if you went out to Joshua Tree National Park and built a garage there to store your 4-Wheelers so you could drive through the Cholla Cactus preserve. You know that is illegal, right? Would you think the government would be over stepping its boundaries if they went after you and your garage? No. You know it is wrong to break the law and if you did... you would expect the cops to come knocking, right? Mr. Bundy owns private property... why doesn't he use that property that he owns, to graze his cattle? The same way you should store your 4-wheelers on property you own, right? If the property isn't big enough for Mr. Bundy's cattle.... why doesn't he pay to use someone else's property to graze... just like you can pay to store your 4-Wheeler on a storage lot, right? It boils down to a case where Mr. Bundy is making money by selling his cattle... and not having to pay to feed them. The one over stepping the boundaries here is Mr. Bundy... a criminal trespasser who is violating a court order. ... Finally, I think it might be a good idea if you got yourself acquainted with this situation before forming an opinion on who is right and who is wrong. Don't just go on what you have seen on television or read on right wing websites. There are tons of articles out there, including many that are linked to this thread. When you see that, you will come to understand that it has nothing to do with Waco and the Branch Davidians and everything to do with a rancher who believes the laws of our country do not apply to him.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Mr. Bundy is not an illegal and what little I do know of this reeks of government control, it seems WACO has tought the fed's something sense they have not killed his family and burned bown his home yet, this is one of those situations that sounds like our government is stepping over it's bounds...bulling a property owner over grazzing land ? but I will admit I have not had time to really check this out.
Godfather.
... First off, sir... I hope you understand that you don't have to be here illegally to commit crimes in this country. Every day, crimes are being commited by people who are legal citizens of the United States. That is what Mr. Bundy is doing... commiting the crime of criminal trespassing, destruction of public lands, violation of U.S. court orders and failure to pay fines. It is the same thing if you went out to Joshua Tree National Park and built a garage there to store your 4-Wheelers so you could drive through the Cholla Cactus preserve. You know that is illegal, right? Would you think the government would be over stepping its boundaries if they went after you and your garage? No. You know it is wrong to break the law and if you did... you would expect the cops to come knocking, right? Mr. Bundy owns private property... why doesn't he use that property that he owns, to graze his cattle? The same way you should store your 4-wheelers on property you own, right? If the property isn't big enough for Mr. Bundy's cattle.... why doesn't he pay to use someone else's property to graze... just like you can pay to store your 4-Wheeler on a storage lot, right? It boils down to a case where Mr. Bundy is making money by selling his cattle... and not having to pay to feed them. The one over stepping the boundaries here is Mr. Bundy... a criminal trespasser who is violating a court order. ... Finally, I think it might be a good idea if you got yourself acquainted with this situation before forming an opinion on who is right and who is wrong. Don't just go on what you have seen on television or read on right wing websites. There are tons of articles out there, including many that are linked to this thread. When you see that, you will come to understand that it has nothing to do with Waco and the Branch Davidians and everything to do with a rancher who believes the laws of our country do not apply to him.
right wing vs. left wing info now that sounds fun ! as I said I'm not really up on this stuff but I do understand what youre saying about his cattle feeding on federal land and heaven forbid he not pay the government for grazzing rights...but I did see a short piece on the news that said he tried to pay those fee's but his payment was rejected and anything after that I haven't heard too much about other than pictures of dead cattle hanging from cables...what was that ?
right wing vs. left wing info now that sounds fun ! as I said I'm not really up on this stuff but I do understand what youre saying about his cattle feeding on federal land and heaven forbid he not pay the government for grazzing rights...but I did see a short piece on the news that said he tried to pay those fee's but his payment was rejected and anything after that I haven't heard too much about other than pictures of dead cattle hanging from cables...what was that ?
Godfather.
... I'm sorry, sir.. but, I am a very skeptical person who does not take everything he read on the InterNet as absolute truth... you will need to provide some sort of reference to validate your points. When you say that Mr. Bundy tried to pay fees... I believe you are referencing Mr. Bundy's actions where he failed to secure the the proper grazing permits through the Bureau of Land Management and instead, tried to get a permit for land use from the Clark County (Nevada) Commissioner's office, which told him they could not accept his payment because Clark County does not own the land in question and therefore, cannot issue a permit for it usage. That is like you, trying to pay your Federal taxes by writing a check to the San Diego Mayor's office. They cannot act and an interim party in your behalf. You HAVE to pay the IRS... and Mr. bundy HAD to pay the B.L.M. if he wanted a permit. It just shows that Mr. Bundy needs to understand that government does not work the way he wants government to work... based upon his terms. He needs to understand that there are laws that need to be followed... like them or not. He needs to find out what the laws are and follow them... just like his father did. If you have some other article that says he tried to pay the proper agency and was rejected, I'd like to review that article for myself, please. Thanx. ... And i need a reference to the photos of Bundy's cattle hanging from cables... that are not photos taken from typical slaughter houses. Because, you know... that is what happens to cows before they turn into hamburgers on your grill... they are hung from wire cables to save floor space. That is what Mr. Bundy does... as part of being a rancher... he sells his cattle to buyers who send them into slaughter houses. Show me the photos of Federal Agents hanging Mr. Bundy's cattle from cables. If they are not the Federal Agents at the Bunkerville site, then they serve no purpose in this discussion. Thanx.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
well I saw his daughter on the news explaining about the grazing fee's the rest is just stuff I saw in the news or interweb, but either way it's part of the prime time news the media is building and if you like you can resurch it yourself because I'm sure that anything I bring to the table will not be good enough for your liking and that's fine with me we all have our own idea of reliable sources it seems.
well I saw his daughter on the news explaining about the grazing fee's the rest is just stuff I saw in the news or interweb, but either way it's part of the prime time news the media is building and if you like you can resurch it yourself because I'm sure that anything I bring to the table will not be good enough for your liking and that's fine with me we all have our own idea of reliable sources it seems. Godfather.
... Sir, that is not true. If you were to provide a reference that I could look at, myself... I could cross reference it with other materials to determine whether the statement is true or not. In this case, if you brought up the source piece you used to come to your conclusion.... i would have been able to determine whether Mr. Bundy's daughter knows more about the law than the courts. That is why I provide soucre material when I'm trying to support a viewpoint. I try make sure it is a reliable source, such as providing the law, itself... in it's written form, rather than a layman's opinion on what he or she believes the law should be. ... The fact remains... Mr. Bundy did not try to pay his fees and was rejected. The TRUTH is, Mr. Bundy thought he could pay the Clark Country Commissioner's office to secure a land use permit... and was told that that office does not issue the permits he is requesting and directed him back to the B.L.M.... which he refused to deal with. He and his familty say they 'tried'... but, that is a false statement. He tried to pay it to an incorrect agency and was told they do not issue those permits. ... Here... let me explain it in very simple terms... it is the SAME thing if you tried to license your vehicle by trying to pay for it at the Post Office. You would have to be a complete moron to think that just because the Post Office will not take your registration fees... it is okay for you to operate an unlicensed vehicle on public roads and highways.... right? It is that simple. Mr. Bundy was wrong... and so is the belief that he had tried to secure a proper, legally issued permit.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,805
Mr. Bundy is not an illegal and what little I do know of this reeks of government control, it seems WACO has tought the fed's something sense they have not killed his family and burned bown his home yet, this is one of those situations that sounds like our government is stepping over it's bounds...bulling a property owner over grazzing land ? but I will admit I have not had time to really check this out.
Godfather.
... First off, sir... I hope you understand that you don't have to be here illegally to commit crimes in this country. Every day, crimes are being commited by people who are legal citizens of the United States. That is what Mr. Bundy is doing... commiting the crime of criminal trespassing, destruction of public lands, violation of U.S. court orders and failure to pay fines. It is the same thing if you went out to Joshua Tree National Park and built a garage there to store your 4-Wheelers so you could drive through the Cholla Cactus preserve. You know that is illegal, right? Would you think the government would be over stepping its boundaries if they went after you and your garage? No. You know it is wrong to break the law and if you did... you would expect the cops to come knocking, right? Mr. Bundy owns private property... why doesn't he use that property that he owns, to graze his cattle? The same way you should store your 4-wheelers on property you own, right? If the property isn't big enough for Mr. Bundy's cattle.... why doesn't he pay to use someone else's property to graze... just like you can pay to store your 4-Wheeler on a storage lot, right? It boils down to a case where Mr. Bundy is making money by selling his cattle... and not having to pay to feed them. The one over stepping the boundaries here is Mr. Bundy... a criminal trespasser who is violating a court order. ... Finally, I think it might be a good idea if you got yourself acquainted with this situation before forming an opinion on who is right and who is wrong. Don't just go on what you have seen on television or read on right wing websites. There are tons of articles out there, including many that are linked to this thread. When you see that, you will come to understand that it has nothing to do with Waco and the Branch Davidians and everything to do with a rancher who believes the laws of our country do not apply to him.
right wing vs. left wing info now that sounds fun ! as I said I'm not really up on this stuff but I do understand what youre saying about his cattle feeding on federal land and heaven forbid he not pay the government for grazzing rights...but I did see a short piece on the news that said he tried to pay those fee's but his payment was rejected and anything after that I haven't heard too much about other than pictures of dead cattle hanging from cables...what was that ?
Godfather.
As I understand it, He doesnt recognize Federal Authority(any longer) so he attempted to pay his county who did not have jurisdiction so they refused to accept what was not theirs to accept.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Mr. Bundy is not an illegal and what little I do know of this reeks of government control, it seems WACO has tought the fed's something sense they have not killed his family and burned bown his home yet, this is one of those situations that sounds like our government is stepping over it's bounds...bulling a property owner over grazzing land ? but I will admit I have not had time to really check this out.
Godfather.
... First off, sir... I hope you understand that you don't have to be here illegally to commit crimes in this country. Every day, crimes are being commited by people who are legal citizens of the United States. That is what Mr. Bundy is doing... commiting the crime of criminal trespassing, destruction of public lands, violation of U.S. court orders and failure to pay fines. It is the same thing if you went out to Joshua Tree National Park and built a garage there to store your 4-Wheelers so you could drive through the Cholla Cactus preserve. You know that is illegal, right? Would you think the government would be over stepping its boundaries if they went after you and your garage? No. You know it is wrong to break the law and if you did... you would expect the cops to come knocking, right? Mr. Bundy owns private property... why doesn't he use that property that he owns, to graze his cattle? The same way you should store your 4-wheelers on property you own, right? If the property isn't big enough for Mr. Bundy's cattle.... why doesn't he pay to use someone else's property to graze... just like you can pay to store your 4-Wheeler on a storage lot, right? It boils down to a case where Mr. Bundy is making money by selling his cattle... and not having to pay to feed them. The one over stepping the boundaries here is Mr. Bundy... a criminal trespasser who is violating a court order. ... Finally, I think it might be a good idea if you got yourself acquainted with this situation before forming an opinion on who is right and who is wrong. Don't just go on what you have seen on television or read on right wing websites. There are tons of articles out there, including many that are linked to this thread. When you see that, you will come to understand that it has nothing to do with Waco and the Branch Davidians and everything to do with a rancher who believes the laws of our country do not apply to him.
right wing vs. left wing info now that sounds fun ! as I said I'm not really up on this stuff but I do understand what youre saying about his cattle feeding on federal land and heaven forbid he not pay the government for grazzing rights...but I did see a short piece on the news that said he tried to pay those fee's but his payment was rejected and anything after that I haven't heard too much about other than pictures of dead cattle hanging from cables...what was that ?
Godfather.
As I understand it, He doesnt recognize Federal Authority(any longer) so he attempted to pay his county who did not have jurisdiction so they refused to accept what was not theirs to accept.
well then he f ' d up there is no fighting the federal machine, they make and enforce the rules, I'll bet the IRS if not now will be hot on his ass with fines and fees and all kinds of made up bullshit, the fed's like to keep their .....people submissive and obediant.
phallic-symbol weapons of mass destruction. hehe that's awesome. on a side note, I was standing in front of my mirror this morning naked, holding only my m4 and my pistol......and my penis grew 3 inches. swear to god. i'm still only at 3 and half but hey it's something. if anyone out there has a small penis, guns really do make it bigger. yeeeeeehaaaaaaw .
These guys are dinosaurs. Grazing cows (not bison) in the west should have never started or at least ended many years ago. Anyone with a basic knowledge of ecology knows this. These yahoos need to get a(nother) life.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
These guys are dinosaurs. Grazing cows (not bison) in the west should have never started or at least ended many years ago. Anyone with a basic knowledge of ecology knows this. These yahoos need to get a(nother) life.
And their sense of entitlement makes it even more ridiculous. They act like the public land is their own, and don't acknowledge that they're making a living utilizing what is all of ours. This also comes up when a wolf occasionally kills a ranchers sheep. They absolutely lose their shit and want to start shooting them all. The wolves returning to Oregon by their own doing, coming down from Idaho, is really a great story, and these knuckleheads act like it's their own back yard and a cougar killed their pug. The wander cattle actually put people at risk. They mosey across the highway, and in the saddest ironic story ever, about 5 years ago a guy driving a meat truck died when he collided with a cow.
These guys are dinosaurs. Grazing cows (not bison) in the west should have never started or at least ended many years ago. Anyone with a basic knowledge of ecology knows this. These yahoos need to get a(nother) life.
And their sense of entitlement makes it even more ridiculous. They act like the public land is their own, and don't acknowledge that they're making a living utilizing what is all of ours. This also comes up when a wolf occasionally kills a ranchers sheep. They absolutely lose their shit and want to start shooting them all. The wolves returning to Oregon by their own doing, coming down from Idaho, is really a great story, and these knuckleheads act like it's their own back yard and a cougar killed their pug. The wander cattle actually put people at risk. They mosey across the highway, and in the saddest ironic story ever, about 5 years ago a guy driving a meat truck died when he collided with a cow.
More good points, Go Beavers!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,805
edited January 2016
So the guys they are coming to the defense of, set fire to areas of federal land in a geographical where wildfires alone are an issue to human life. I assume were charged federally with arson.
Now, there could be a legal case for these guys to appeal this resentencing but that is for their attorneys to handle.
Bundy and his cohorts are setting themselves up to be an example and in my opinion need dealt with in the manner they seem to want. With force and no quarter.
This is armed insurrection and the constitution allows for this to be put down with prejudice.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Already I saw one idiot troll on Facebook defending them just because they're white. To hell with building more prisons, we need more mental hospitals.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,736
i am starting to think that "patriotism" is something that we need to put in the DSM-V
these guys are full blown whackadoodles.
This cracked me up! Funny as all get out but oh so true. On a Global Assessment of Functioning some of these guys must only register around a 10 out 100.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
First off, sir... I hope you understand that you don't have to be here illegally to commit crimes in this country. Every day, crimes are being commited by people who are legal citizens of the United States.
That is what Mr. Bundy is doing... commiting the crime of criminal trespassing, destruction of public lands, violation of U.S. court orders and failure to pay fines. It is the same thing if you went out to Joshua Tree National Park and built a garage there to store your 4-Wheelers so you could drive through the Cholla Cactus preserve. You know that is illegal, right? Would you think the government would be over stepping its boundaries if they went after you and your garage? No. You know it is wrong to break the law and if you did... you would expect the cops to come knocking, right?
Mr. Bundy owns private property... why doesn't he use that property that he owns, to graze his cattle? The same way you should store your 4-wheelers on property you own, right? If the property isn't big enough for Mr. Bundy's cattle.... why doesn't he pay to use someone else's property to graze... just like you can pay to store your 4-Wheeler on a storage lot, right?
It boils down to a case where Mr. Bundy is making money by selling his cattle... and not having to pay to feed them. The one over stepping the boundaries here is Mr. Bundy... a criminal trespasser who is violating a court order.
...
Finally, I think it might be a good idea if you got yourself acquainted with this situation before forming an opinion on who is right and who is wrong. Don't just go on what you have seen on television or read on right wing websites. There are tons of articles out there, including many that are linked to this thread. When you see that, you will come to understand that it has nothing to do with Waco and the Branch Davidians and everything to do with a rancher who believes the laws of our country do not apply to him.
Hail, Hail!!!
Godfather.
Godfather.
I'm sorry, sir.. but, I am a very skeptical person who does not take everything he read on the InterNet as absolute truth... you will need to provide some sort of reference to validate your points.
When you say that Mr. Bundy tried to pay fees... I believe you are referencing Mr. Bundy's actions where he failed to secure the the proper grazing permits through the Bureau of Land Management and instead, tried to get a permit for land use from the Clark County (Nevada) Commissioner's office, which told him they could not accept his payment because Clark County does not own the land in question and therefore, cannot issue a permit for it usage. That is like you, trying to pay your Federal taxes by writing a check to the San Diego Mayor's office. They cannot act and an interim party in your behalf. You HAVE to pay the IRS... and Mr. bundy HAD to pay the B.L.M. if he wanted a permit.
It just shows that Mr. Bundy needs to understand that government does not work the way he wants government to work... based upon his terms. He needs to understand that there are laws that need to be followed... like them or not. He needs to find out what the laws are and follow them... just like his father did.
If you have some other article that says he tried to pay the proper agency and was rejected, I'd like to review that article for myself, please. Thanx.
...
And i need a reference to the photos of Bundy's cattle hanging from cables... that are not photos taken from typical slaughter houses. Because, you know... that is what happens to cows before they turn into hamburgers on your grill... they are hung from wire cables to save floor space. That is what Mr. Bundy does... as part of being a rancher... he sells his cattle to buyers who send them into slaughter houses. Show me the photos of Federal Agents hanging Mr. Bundy's cattle from cables. If they are not the Federal Agents at the Bunkerville site, then they serve no purpose in this discussion.
Thanx.
Hail, Hail!!!
Godfather.
Sir, that is not true.
If you were to provide a reference that I could look at, myself... I could cross reference it with other materials to determine whether the statement is true or not.
In this case, if you brought up the source piece you used to come to your conclusion.... i would have been able to determine whether Mr. Bundy's daughter knows more about the law than the courts.
That is why I provide soucre material when I'm trying to support a viewpoint. I try make sure it is a reliable source, such as providing the law, itself... in it's written form, rather than a layman's opinion on what he or she believes the law should be.
...
The fact remains... Mr. Bundy did not try to pay his fees and was rejected.
The TRUTH is, Mr. Bundy thought he could pay the Clark Country Commissioner's office to secure a land use permit... and was told that that office does not issue the permits he is requesting and directed him back to the B.L.M.... which he refused to deal with. He and his familty say they 'tried'... but, that is a false statement. He tried to pay it to an incorrect agency and was told they do not issue those permits.
...
Here... let me explain it in very simple terms...
it is the SAME thing if you tried to license your vehicle by trying to pay for it at the Post Office. You would have to be a complete moron to think that just because the Post Office will not take your registration fees... it is okay for you to operate an unlicensed vehicle on public roads and highways.... right?
It is that simple. Mr. Bundy was wrong... and so is the belief that he had tried to secure a proper, legally issued permit.
Hail, Hail!!!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Godfather.
remember, freedom ain't free.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
fuck this guy. for real.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Looks like terrorists have seized a federal building.
Now, there could be a legal case for these guys to appeal this resentencing but that is for their attorneys to handle.
Bundy and his cohorts are setting themselves up to be an example and in my opinion need dealt with in the manner they seem to want. With force and no quarter.
This is armed insurrection and the constitution allows for this to be put down with prejudice.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/04/us/oregon-standoff-social-media-reaction/
The Cletuses dun went an got organized.
Giddy up! Get er dun.
these guys are full blown whackadoodles.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."