PHILLY (Loosely Related to The Philadelphia Phillies)

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  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,529
    edited August 2015

    Go Phillies

    fuck the yankees

    been since 1993 for the Blue Jays in the playoffs. longest stretch in baseball and only team not to have made it in the 2000s.
    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    pjhawks said:

    Go Phillies

    fuck the yankees

    been since 1993 for the Blue Jays in the playoffs. longest stretch in baseball and only team not to have made it in the 2000s.
    Point being?

    Go Phillies
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,908
    The case for going after Heyward:

    http://philliesnation.com/archives/2015/08/launching-the-campaign-to-sign-jason-heyward/

    Launching the campaign to sign Jason Heyward
    Posted by Tim Malcolm, Tue, August 18, 2015 03:00 PM | Comments: 2

    Attention: There are only 48 more days left in the 2015 baseball regular season.

    That’s 48 more days until the Phillies are finished playing baseball in 2015.

    You may be happy to hear this, as you’ve watched almost every major league team bludgeon the Phillies like an animal carcass in a meat-packing plant. Or, like me, you may be unhappy because, hey, baseball is baseball, and while the team may be no more than a dangling loin, you can still watch exciting players like Maikel Franco, Aaron Nola, Odubel Herrera, Cesar Hernandez, and Ken Giles, among other things.

    Either way, the choice is yours with this brand of Grade-F Phillies. We knew they’d smell up the joint in 2015, and they’ve done just that. But along with the smelling, they’ve luckily transformed their farm system into an elite cattle call to prepare us for 2016 and beyond. So with that, I’m here to go beyond today, to energize you for a promising tomorrow at Citizens Bank Park.

    Here’s the next step. Two words. Say it with me: Jason Heyward.

    Heyward, he of the St. Louis Cardinals and their 76-42 record – and he of the 2016 free agent class – is hitting .288 with a .344 OBP (.337 wOBA) and .438 SLG, good for a .782 OPS that stands right at his career average of .781. While he has cut down on home runs in recent years (36 since 2013), his strikeout rate has fallen from a three-year average of around 21 percent (2010-12) to a three-year average of around 16 percent (2013-present). Fangraphs has him at 3.6 WAR this season, while Baseball Reference gives him 3.9 WAR.

    By comparison, Heyward would have the highest OBP among Phillies regulars, and his SLG would fall just below those of Franco, the great-and-powerful Jeff Francoeur, and Ryan Howard. And Heyward wouldn’t just have – by far – the highest WAR of any position player, but his individual WAR of 3.9 nearly outpaces the entire Phillies offense (4.0 WAR).

    In short, this is a solidly consistent player with above-average contact skills, average-to-above-average on-base skills, decent power production, and a superior defensive profile (most defensive metrics say he has saved at least 12 runs above average this season, with a career average trending more toward 20 per season). And in this era of interstellar pitching, a Jason Heyward goes a long way.

    But why Heyward, and why 2016? Aren’t the Phillies likely to be bad again?

    Well, yes, the Phillies as constructed for 2016 – with small additions – should win maybe 70 games, give or take. Adding Heyward wouldn’t tip the scale much further, maybe to about 72-73 wins, give or take. But let’s move to 2017. JP Crawford is your starting shortstop. Maybe Nick Williams is taking left field. Maybe the Phils add a premiere pitcher. Add a few small parts and maybe the Phillies are an 81-83 win team, meaning a few breaks puts them in the postseason conversation. By 2018 the Phillies are back in the thick of contention, gunning for potentially 86-88 wins.

    Heyward – who by the way just turned 26 – would likely command a long-term deal in free agency, so the Phillies could be wise to lock him up for something like six years and $110 million (this figure is bound to be debated one way or another). Considering the money coming off the books over the next few years, the Phillies can easily absorb this type of salary, and considering Heyward’s consistent play, he’s likely to give all of that value back.

    Heyward isn’t a one- or two-dimensional player more likely to sputter past his prime. Moreover, a six-year – or even seven-year – deal wouldn’t chain the Phillies to Heyward’s post-prime years (remember, he just turned 26). Chances are good that Heyward has at least another three to four great seasons ahead of him; say you get that, plus another good season or two, and the decision is easy. Some people may want Justin Upton, a more prolific power hitter who at 27 could also energize the Phillies for up to seven years. I can entertain that. But Upton is likely to command much more in free agency, and his limited defensive ability remains worrisome. (I should note that Heyward has a history of minor but seemingly unrelated injuries, like the hamstring injury he suffered Monday night.)

    Heyward would mean an essential building block. He could fit in the batting order anywhere between the two and six holes, provide speed (18 stolen bases this year) and a little thump, and be a rock out in right field. Between Williams, Herrera, Aaron Altherr, Kelly Dugan, and the weird sliver of potential some of us hope for in Domonic Brown, the Phillies have a few options to fill left and center, and that’s before talking Carlos Tocci and Roman Quinn.

    So this is my first call: Get Jason Heyward in 2016. Lock him up to a long-term deal. By year three of his contract, the Phillies could be right back in the sun with the rest of the Prime players.
    - See more at: http://philliesnation.com/archives/2015/08/launching-the-campaign-to-sign-jason-heyward/#sthash.EKiwE19z.dpuf
    www.myspace.com
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,908
    Also Franco to DL and Altherr called up. Can really tell what Franco means to this offense over last 4 games or so...
    www.myspace.com
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840

    The case for going after Heyward:

    http://philliesnation.com/archives/2015/08/launching-the-campaign-to-sign-jason-heyward/

    Launching the campaign to sign Jason Heyward
    Posted by Tim Malcolm, Tue, August 18, 2015 03:00 PM | Comments: 2

    Attention: There are only 48 more days left in the 2015 baseball regular season.

    That’s 48 more days until the Phillies are finished playing baseball in 2015.

    You may be happy to hear this, as you’ve watched almost every major league team bludgeon the Phillies like an animal carcass in a meat-packing plant. Or, like me, you may be unhappy because, hey, baseball is baseball, and while the team may be no more than a dangling loin, you can still watch exciting players like Maikel Franco, Aaron Nola, Odubel Herrera, Cesar Hernandez, and Ken Giles, among other things.

    Either way, the choice is yours with this brand of Grade-F Phillies. We knew they’d smell up the joint in 2015, and they’ve done just that. But along with the smelling, they’ve luckily transformed their farm system into an elite cattle call to prepare us for 2016 and beyond. So with that, I’m here to go beyond today, to energize you for a promising tomorrow at Citizens Bank Park.

    Here’s the next step. Two words. Say it with me: Jason Heyward.

    Heyward, he of the St. Louis Cardinals and their 76-42 record – and he of the 2016 free agent class – is hitting .288 with a .344 OBP (.337 wOBA) and .438 SLG, good for a .782 OPS that stands right at his career average of .781. While he has cut down on home runs in recent years (36 since 2013), his strikeout rate has fallen from a three-year average of around 21 percent (2010-12) to a three-year average of around 16 percent (2013-present). Fangraphs has him at 3.6 WAR this season, while Baseball Reference gives him 3.9 WAR.

    By comparison, Heyward would have the highest OBP among Phillies regulars, and his SLG would fall just below those of Franco, the great-and-powerful Jeff Francoeur, and Ryan Howard. And Heyward wouldn’t just have – by far – the highest WAR of any position player, but his individual WAR of 3.9 nearly outpaces the entire Phillies offense (4.0 WAR).

    In short, this is a solidly consistent player with above-average contact skills, average-to-above-average on-base skills, decent power production, and a superior defensive profile (most defensive metrics say he has saved at least 12 runs above average this season, with a career average trending more toward 20 per season). And in this era of interstellar pitching, a Jason Heyward goes a long way.

    But why Heyward, and why 2016? Aren’t the Phillies likely to be bad again?

    Well, yes, the Phillies as constructed for 2016 – with small additions – should win maybe 70 games, give or take. Adding Heyward wouldn’t tip the scale much further, maybe to about 72-73 wins, give or take. But let’s move to 2017. JP Crawford is your starting shortstop. Maybe Nick Williams is taking left field. Maybe the Phils add a premiere pitcher. Add a few small parts and maybe the Phillies are an 81-83 win team, meaning a few breaks puts them in the postseason conversation. By 2018 the Phillies are back in the thick of contention, gunning for potentially 86-88 wins.

    Heyward – who by the way just turned 26 – would likely command a long-term deal in free agency, so the Phillies could be wise to lock him up for something like six years and $110 million (this figure is bound to be debated one way or another). Considering the money coming off the books over the next few years, the Phillies can easily absorb this type of salary, and considering Heyward’s consistent play, he’s likely to give all of that value back.

    Heyward isn’t a one- or two-dimensional player more likely to sputter past his prime. Moreover, a six-year – or even seven-year – deal wouldn’t chain the Phillies to Heyward’s post-prime years (remember, he just turned 26). Chances are good that Heyward has at least another three to four great seasons ahead of him; say you get that, plus another good season or two, and the decision is easy. Some people may want Justin Upton, a more prolific power hitter who at 27 could also energize the Phillies for up to seven years. I can entertain that. But Upton is likely to command much more in free agency, and his limited defensive ability remains worrisome. (I should note that Heyward has a history of minor but seemingly unrelated injuries, like the hamstring injury he suffered Monday night.)

    Heyward would mean an essential building block. He could fit in the batting order anywhere between the two and six holes, provide speed (18 stolen bases this year) and a little thump, and be a rock out in right field. Between Williams, Herrera, Aaron Altherr, Kelly Dugan, and the weird sliver of potential some of us hope for in Domonic Brown, the Phillies have a few options to fill left and center, and that’s before talking Carlos Tocci and Roman Quinn.

    So this is my first call: Get Jason Heyward in 2016. Lock him up to a long-term deal. By year three of his contract, the Phillies could be right back in the sun with the rest of the Prime players.
    - See more at: http://philliesnation.com/archives/2015/08/launching-the-campaign-to-sign-jason-heyward/#sthash.EKiwE19z.dpuf

    Big fan of Heyward. Still hasn't had the big breakout year many expected, but young and good.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,529
    only problem is Heyward will most likely be severely overpaid in the FA market. is it worth it at what he might command?
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    pjhawks said:

    only problem is Heyward will most likely be severely overpaid in the FA market. is it worth it at what he might command?

    He's young so he's more worth it than other guys who hit the market around 30 like Ellsbury.

    I think that number quoted is low and see him getting a good contract. Possibly overpaid, but I think worth it.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,908

    pjhawks said:

    only problem is Heyward will most likely be severely overpaid in the FA market. is it worth it at what he might command?

    He's young so he's more worth it than other guys who hit the market around 30 like Ellsbury.

    I think that number quoted is low and see him getting a good contract. Possibly overpaid, but I think worth it.
    Yeah just turned 26...so hopefully Phils will be better next year and possibly be ready to contend for wild card when he's 28 and smack in the middle of his prime. I think it makes sense.
    www.myspace.com
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840

    pjhawks said:

    only problem is Heyward will most likely be severely overpaid in the FA market. is it worth it at what he might command?

    He's young so he's more worth it than other guys who hit the market around 30 like Ellsbury.

    I think that number quoted is low and see him getting a good contract. Possibly overpaid, but I think worth it.
    Yeah just turned 26...so hopefully Phils will be better next year and possibly be ready to contend for wild card when he's 28 and smack in the middle of his prime. I think it makes sense.
    Can't see the Yankees being in on him with stupid fucking Beltran, so there's one team likely out.
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Posts: 17,038

    pjhawks said:

    only problem is Heyward will most likely be severely overpaid in the FA market. is it worth it at what he might command?

    He's young so he's more worth it than other guys who hit the market around 30 like Ellsbury.

    I think that number quoted is low and see him getting a good contract. Possibly overpaid, but I think worth it.
    Yeah just turned 26...so hopefully Phils will be better next year and possibly be ready to contend for wild card when he's 28 and smack in the middle of his prime. I think it makes sense.
    I've been talking to a guy at work, who is a baseball nerd like me, since May that they should after Heyward. Sure, ya might get less pop (which could go up playing more in CBP) but the price tag on him would be well worth it if you plan on contending in '17/'18. That's the big IF though...
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    Gotta figure Cherington would be a pretty good fit for the Phillies, no?
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,529

    Gotta figure Cherington would be a pretty good fit for the Phillies, no?

    why? 3 of the last 4 years (the 4 years Cherington was GM in Boston) the Sox have sucked and even in 2 of those years had a worse record than the Phils. how is that an upgrade?
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    edited August 2015
    pjhawks said:

    Gotta figure Cherington would be a pretty good fit for the Phillies, no?

    why? 3 of the last 4 years (the 4 years Cherington was GM in Boston) the Sox have sucked and even in 2 of those years had a worse record than the Phils. how is that an upgrade?
    Cherington should get a lot of criticism for the Hanley, Sandovol, Porcello deals, letting Miller walk and the Kelly/Craig trade, but he should also get a lot of credit for turning around a terrible farm system which is probably the best in baseball right now. Not to mention, low level prospects have a good track record of making the big leagues under him, maybe not up to potential yet, but a lot of at least made it up. He should also get a lot of credit for clearing a quarter billion dollars in commitments, getting them under the luxury tax and creating flexibility which lead to the 2013 championship. They would not have won that championship without the moves they made after clearing all that payroll

    He has definitely made mistakes but he came in in a tough situation and won a world series. Epstein did not leave Boston in a good place. A huge payroll and terrible farm. He has clearly done a good job on the farm/development side and has been extremely creative in creating flexibility. Definitely has made mistakes especially on the free agent side, but with a president like Mcphail, those will likely be more limited. The things he is good at seem to me to be important skill for the next Phillies GM. Don't know if he would want to work with a hands on president though

    Edit: He has also been with the Red Sox since 1999 which has obviously been the most successful run they have ever had, so he clearly had influence on that.

    Post edited by Cliffy6745 on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,529

    pjhawks said:

    Gotta figure Cherington would be a pretty good fit for the Phillies, no?

    why? 3 of the last 4 years (the 4 years Cherington was GM in Boston) the Sox have sucked and even in 2 of those years had a worse record than the Phils. how is that an upgrade?
    Cherington should get a lot of criticism for the Hanley, Sandovol, Porcello deals, letting Miller walk and the Kelly/Craig trade, but he should also get a lot of credit for turning around a terrible farm system which is probably the best in baseball right now. Not to mention, low level prospects have a good track record of making the big leagues under him, maybe not up to potential yet, but a lot of at least made it up. He should also get a lot of credit for clearing a quarter billion dollars in commitments, getting them under the luxury tax and creating flexibility which lead to the 2013 championship. They would not have won that championship without the moves they made after clearing all that payroll

    He has definitely made mistakes but he came in in a tough situation and won a world series. Epstein did not leave Boston in a good place. A huge payroll and terrible farm. He has clearly done a good job on the farm/development side and has been extremely creative in creating flexibility. Definitely has made mistakes especially on the free agent side, but with a president like Mcphail, those will likely be more limited. The things he is good at seem to me to be important skill for the next Phillies GM. Don't know if he would want to work with a hands on president though

    Edit: He has also been with the Red Sox since 1999 which has obviously been the most successful run they have ever had, so he clearly had influence on that.

    definitely some good points here but i think a lot of the same points can be made about the gillick/amaro team. amaro clearly has made some large mistakes but there has been a big jump in their minor league system in the past 2 years and amaro has also been with this franchise during it's most successful run.

    and agree if he didn't want to work under Domnbrowski would be be willing to work under MacPhail? interesting question and topic for sure though.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    edited August 2015
    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    Gotta figure Cherington would be a pretty good fit for the Phillies, no?

    why? 3 of the last 4 years (the 4 years Cherington was GM in Boston) the Sox have sucked and even in 2 of those years had a worse record than the Phils. how is that an upgrade?
    Cherington should get a lot of criticism for the Hanley, Sandovol, Porcello deals, letting Miller walk and the Kelly/Craig trade, but he should also get a lot of credit for turning around a terrible farm system which is probably the best in baseball right now. Not to mention, low level prospects have a good track record of making the big leagues under him, maybe not up to potential yet, but a lot of at least made it up. He should also get a lot of credit for clearing a quarter billion dollars in commitments, getting them under the luxury tax and creating flexibility which lead to the 2013 championship. They would not have won that championship without the moves they made after clearing all that payroll

    He has definitely made mistakes but he came in in a tough situation and won a world series. Epstein did not leave Boston in a good place. A huge payroll and terrible farm. He has clearly done a good job on the farm/development side and has been extremely creative in creating flexibility. Definitely has made mistakes especially on the free agent side, but with a president like Mcphail, those will likely be more limited. The things he is good at seem to me to be important skill for the next Phillies GM. Don't know if he would want to work with a hands on president though

    Edit: He has also been with the Red Sox since 1999 which has obviously been the most successful run they have ever had, so he clearly had influence on that.

    definitely some good points here but i think a lot of the same points can be made about the gillick/amaro team. amaro clearly has made some large mistakes but there has been a big jump in their minor league system in the past 2 years and amaro has also been with this franchise during it's most successful run.

    and agree if he didn't want to work under Domnbrowski would be be willing to work under MacPhail? interesting question and topic for sure though.
    Ha, as I was typing this, I actually thought a good bit of it could be said about Amaro too, though I would very strongly argue his mistakes are much more franchise crippling than Cherington's. I would also argue that Cherington had a much bigger impact on 2013 due to the massive trade and subsequent moves than Amaro did on 2008.

    That would be interesting. I assume it is different going somewhere else working for someone and having a choice vs. having your employer hire someone above you, but who knows. He may want full power, though given the questions, I am not sure if that is something he can demand.

    I also like that Cherington has the balls to make Ortiz go more or less year to year. Anything that pisses him off is okay in my books.

    This past offseason was a disaster for Boston and there is no excuse for signing two 3rd basemen and going into the season with a bunch of number 4 pitchers.

    I think the big difference is that, sure the Gillick/Amaro team could have and seems to have worked of late, but that is not a possibility anymore with MacPhail.

    I think Cherington/MacPhail would be a good set up for the Phillies.

  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    Rosenthal saying Utley could be traded today.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,908
    Thanks for everything 26.

    WFC 2008. Never forget.
    www.myspace.com
  • Empty GlassEmpty Glass Posts: 12,329

    Thanks for everything 26.

    WFC 2008. Never forget.

    I can't add much too this. Certainly my favorite player of all time.

    "Chase Utley, you are the man"
    I've met Rob

    DEGENERATE FUK

    This place is dead

    "THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015

    "Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,529
    incredibly sad that our stars in Philly always seem to have to end up somewhere else. Chase was just a joy to watch from Day 1. when he came up i thought he was destined for the Hall of Fame as he had the best most natural swing of any guy i've seen on the Phils. too bad the knees started to go on him. he will go down as one of the franchise greats.

    only Chooch and Ryan left from 2008.

    Imagine if Chase and Jimmy win a World Series for the Dodgers. Good luck Chase.
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave Posts: 42,056
    Chase Utley you are the MAN!

    sad to see him go :disappointed:
    8/28/98- Camden, NJ
    10/31/09- Philly
    5/21/10- NYC
    9/2/12- Philly, PA
    7/19/13- Wrigley
    10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
    10/21/13- Philly, PA
    10/22/13- Philly, PA
    10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
    4/28/16- Philly, PA
    4/29/16- Philly, PA
    5/1/16- NYC
    5/2/16- NYC
    9/2/18- Boston, MA
    9/4/18- Boston, MA
    9/14/22- Camden, NJ
    9/7/24- Philly, PA
    9/9/24- Philly, PA
    Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
    Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
    RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 30,174
    pjhawks said:



    Imagine if Chase and Jimmy win a World Series for the Dodgers. Good luck Chase.

    fuck THAT! :nuh_uh:

    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    Phillies!
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    Just looking back at his stats, 2005-2009 is absolutely insane. .301/.388/.535 with a .922 OPS. A WAR over 7.5 every year. Was a top 3 or so player in the game over that time.
  • JK_LivinJK_Livin Posts: 7,365
    Well this just sucks.
    Alright, alright, alright!
    Tom O.
    "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
    -The Writer
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Posts: 17,038

    Just looking back at his stats, 2005-2009 is absolutely insane. .301/.388/.535 with a .922 OPS. A WAR over 7.5 every year. Was a top 3 or so player in the game over that time.

    It was like him and Pujols, and then everyone else. I just wish this band-aid was ripped off, across the board, a little sooner. But oh well, onward and upward (hopefully upward, oh God, please upward).

    Gonna be in LA starting next weekend. Definitely taking in a game against the Cubs - going to be a weird scene.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840

    Just looking back at his stats, 2005-2009 is absolutely insane. .301/.388/.535 with a .922 OPS. A WAR over 7.5 every year. Was a top 3 or so player in the game over that time.

    It was like him and Pujols, and then everyone else. I just wish this band-aid was ripped off, across the board, a little sooner. But oh well, onward and upward (hopefully upward, oh God, please upward).

    Gonna be in LA starting next weekend. Definitely taking in a game against the Cubs - going to be a weird scene.
    Pujols, Arod and Utley were the three I was thinking. All had a monster stretch then.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    pjhawks said:
    His first major league hit was a grand slam? That is pretty cool. Looks like there were a whole 15 people there to see it too.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,908

    pjhawks said:
    His first major league hit was a grand slam? That is pretty cool. Looks like there were a whole 15 people there to see it too.
    F you. There were about 20,000 or so there including your Juggler. Think it was a BPS on a cold day.

    The way he sprinted around the bases instantly endeared himself to me.


    Is this the clip where they have his highlights set to the music from The Natural? Cuz that damn near brought a tear to my eye this morning. Had to collect myself for a moment before heading into the office.
    www.myspace.com
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,908
    And somehow it appears the Phils made out pretty well in this deal too. I saw Keith Law liked it also.

    Are we in bizarro world?
    www.myspace.com
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