I know what that means....it means you're gonna start talking about how much you like this team.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
This is the smartest the Phillies mgmt have looked in the past 4 years....and all it took was a no-hitter...and by the fortunate graces that apparently Price and Samardzija are off the market.
Can't argue with what they got for Papelbone - the fact that they don't have to pay a dime of his salary next season is a victory in and of itself.
Whoever is the one calling the shots appears to have made out as well as can be expected from the Pap, Rollins, and Byrd trades. Makes me feel a little less apprehensive about what they end up getting for Cole...gonna find out sooner than later.
the return on this hamels trade sounds horrendous. exactly what I've expected under this abortion of an executive team. they just don't get it...fucking idiots
the return on this hamels trade sounds horrendous. exactly what I've expected under this abortion of an executive team. they just don't get it...fucking idiots
who are you hearing they are getting in return?
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
the return on this hamels trade sounds horrendous. exactly what I've expected under this abortion of an executive team. they just don't get it...fucking idiots
who are you hearing they are getting in return?
jorge alfaro - catcher chi chi gonzalez - rhp nick williams - LF and possibly another low level guy yet to be named
alfaro is the main get here. I think centering a return for an ace in his prime around a catcher is ridiculously stupid (but certainly not surprising because it's the phillies). It's like trading an NFL qb for a tight end
the return on this hamels trade sounds horrendous. exactly what I've expected under this abortion of an executive team. they just don't get it...fucking idiots
who are you hearing they are getting in return?
jorge alfaro - catcher chi chi gonzalez - rhp nick williams - LF and possibly another low level guy yet to be named
oh ok and i'm pretty sure i have not heard of any of those guys. Are they suppose to be at least good prospects? I looked on espn for any info about the trade and couldn't really find anything on who the guys were.
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
the return on this hamels trade sounds horrendous. exactly what I've expected under this abortion of an executive team. they just don't get it...fucking idiots
who are you hearing they are getting in return?
jorge alfaro - catcher chi chi gonzalez - rhp nick williams - LF and possibly another low level guy yet to be named
oh ok and i'm pretty sure i have not heard of any of those guys. Are they suppose to be at least good prospects? I looked on espn for any info about the trade and couldn't really find anything on who the guys were.
I love following prospects. I read a ton of stuff on the minors. I will post some info. Here's a preview...it's not pretty
nick williams sounds like the epitome of player who phils have historically drafted and failed to develop.
below cut/pasted from my go to sites...
Williams has really good bat control and can square up almost anything (.296 BA in over 1000 PA), but he has such an undisciplined approach that he’s striking out nearly 30% of the time with walks rates below 5%. When you’re more talented that everyone else and pitchers are still making mistake pitches, you can get by with this approach, but past exampled show us it’s hard to change a bad approach this late in development.
Scouts have questioned Williams’ aptitude to make changes since back to high school and have routinely crushed him for lackadaisical defensive play and slow jumps out of the batter’s box. Williams’ plate discipline isn’t the only thing holding back his power from showing up in games, as his swing is geared for line drives up the middle.
When you combine his fringy defense, lack of focus, left field profile, unsustainable strikeout rates and contact-oriented approach, you suddenly have an athletic, left-handed hitting 20-year-old with great bat control and plus raw power that’s performing well and scouts aren’t that enthused.
Summation: All that said Williams still projects as a league average bat that could be at least average defensively and on the bases if he chooses to be, with the upside to become more. 50 FV makes sense here and there’s a good reason for the Rangers to promote him aggressively: to break his bad habits, he has to be challenged.
has pull power and some natural feel to hit, but his approach is just awful, with no plate discipline or demonstrated ability to make adjustments; even in the field, it's all physical gifts, no aptitude.
Scouting Report: Williams has some of the fastest hands in the minors. He has a loose, free-and-easy swing that’s quick and explosive. He has plus raw power and can go deep to any part of the park, though his stroke is more geared for line drives than loft. Scouts consistently praise Williams for his hitting actions, even though he strikes out frequently. That’s because he has trouble recognizing pitches and chases too many balls out of the strike zone, which leads to excessive strikeouts and minimal walks. Williams is an above-average runner with an average arm, so he’s rotated between all three outfield positions. He’s still learning to become a more efficient basestealer, which will improve once he’s able to time his jumps better.
The Future: Scouts inclined to dream on Williams think he can become the Rangers’ version of Carlos Gonzalez. If he can’t shrink his strike zone, then his approach carries enough risk that the downside could be Felix Pie. He will return to a loaded Frisco team in 2015.
jorge alfaro (currently on DL with torn ankle ligaments -- considered a major injury, esp for a catcher)
Scouting Report: Alfaro has two standout tools in his power and arm strength. His bat speed, explosive hips and strength generate plus raw power, though he remains a power-over-hit prospect who’s still trying to tone down his aggressive approach, improve his pitch recognition and make more contact. He could grow to be an average hitter, which is plenty good for a catcher with his power. Alfaro is athletic and is one of the fastest catchers in baseball, a legitimate average runner. His double-plus arm generates pop times of sub-1.9 seconds on throws to second base. He’s never been a shutdown defender of the running game, but he threw out basestealers at a solid 28 percent clip in 2014. Alfaro has the attributes to catch, but he’s still a well below-average receiver who committed 23 passed balls in 90 games in 2014.
The Future: Alfaro’s defensive issues are troubling, but his ceiling is an above-average player whose power can carry him. He likely returns to Double-A Frisco to start 2015.
Alfaro had a significant ankle injury (with tendon damage) that has probably ended his 2015 season, but he remains one of the minors' best catching prospects thanks to his combination of 80 raw power and 80 arm strength. The injury is particularly damaging to Alfaro, however, as the two facets of his game on which he needs the most work, plate discipline and receiving, typically improve only with more playing time.
Alfaro is another guy like Gallo in that he has big flashy tools that most fans normally associate with big league stars, but problems making contact that could hold it all back. While Gallo has taken a big step forward this year, Alfaro is making more steady progress, slowly tightening up his zone and finding the right amount of aggression at the plate.
His plus raw power may never fully play at the big league level, but since he can stick behind the plate, it won’t have to. Alfaro has the tools to be an above average defender and his plus-plus arm is a huge weapon, but he still needs some work on the finer points of catching, as his arm strength allows him to get away with stuff in the minors that he won’t be able to do in the majors.
Thompson slipped to the 2nd round out of high school because his stuff was mostly average, but would tick up at times. That was the book on him earlier this year at High-A Lakeland for Detroit, when he’d start games at 90-92, hitting 93-95 at times and then dip to 88-91 later in the game with a solid average three-pitch mix. In the Florida State League All-Star Game, Thompson sat 93-96 in a one-inning appearance and his slider was at least a 60, though it was a higher effort delivery he didn’t use when starting.
Thompson was dealt to the Rangers mid-season in the Joakim Soria trade and scouts that saw him in the Texas League have been reporting he’s 92-96 with a 60 slider that is sometimes a 70 in short stints. There’s an average change and impact stuff as a starter, but there’s also some effort to the delivery, so the fit may be in the bullpen. Given that Thompson appears to be the rare example (like Joba Chamberlain or Jonathan Papelbon) where the stuff ticks up a lot in relief, he may be best suited as a closer, but Texas would be foolish to not see if Thompson can be a 200 inning mid-rotation workhorse.
Summation: The Rangers are pleasantly surprised with the enhanced stuff Thompson started showing essentially right when they traded for him and they want to develop him as a starter. He’s on the fast track as a starter and if Texas gets back into the pennant race next season, it would be hard to not work him into the big leagues in short stints in 2015 before trying as a starter in 2016.
The Tigers sacrificed their first-round pick in 2012 to sign Prince Fielder, so Thompson at No. 91 overall was their top selection. Detroit held him back in extended spring training the first two months of 2013, but he flew threw the system after that slow start, reaching Double-A Erie as a 20-year-old in July 2014. Two starts later, the Tigers packaged him with relief prospect Corey Knebel to add reliever Joakim Soria to a thin Tigers bullpen.
Scouting Report: Thompson throws two-seam and four-seam fastballs downhill at 89-95 mph, with good sink and tail on his two-seamer. His best secondary weapon is his plus slider, a swing-and-miss pitch with two-plane break that flashes 70 on the 20-80 scale. Thompson didn’t use his changeup much early in his career, but it’s become an average pitch with projection to tick up. He mixes in an occasional curveball as well, and it too can be average. He’s a solid strike-thrower, though he could tighten up his fastball command.
The Future: The Tigers’ desperation for bullpen help is the Rangers’ gain. As a potential No. 2 or 3 starter, Thompson could be a steal. He’s slated to return to Double-A Frisco to open 2015.
Thompson, who ranked fifth in Detroit's system last offseason, was a slider-heavy monster in 2013, posting strong results but worrying scouts with his over-reliance on that pitch in the Midwest League. The Tigers did an excellent job fashioning him into a more traditional starting pitching prospect last spring, getting him to pitch more with his fastball, a shift that increased his value and allowed them to trade him for Joakim Soria in July.
Thompson is a big, physical horse with above-average velocity and that slider, which is a swing-and-miss pitch against right-handed batters and good enough to get some left-handed batters as well. It has power and tilt at 83-84 mph, but having him use it less often so he can work on his still-developing changeup, not yet an average pitch, would better set him up to join the rotation in 2016 or 2017. One concern is that despite his size, there's still some effort to his delivery, with no pause at his leg kick and slight stiffness at release. He looks the part of a mid-rotation starter and has the necessary out pitch to get there.
Jerad Eickhoff, RHP 6’4/240 righty that was 15th rounder from Illinois Juco has forced his way into prospect status at AA with 90-94 mph heater that’s hit 97. His curveball is a 55 and he flashes average command and starter traits with a fringy changeup and slider.
Alec Asher, RHP Asher had some buzz early in the season as 3rd/4th starter as he hit 96 mph with a slider that flashed plus, but the stuff has backed up a lot and now some scouts have him as only an emergency call-up type. There’s some injury history and now a flat 89-92 mph fastball has been his only average pitch for the last few months.
I feel this return is more quantity than quality. Will be interesting to read what the industry analysts have to say. I'm pretty disappointed...I think the goal of trading hamels should have been to get a star prospect in return and they didn't do that (texas has a handful of those type of prospects that I would have liked more than what they got...especially nomar mazara)
to make it worse, matt harrison is owed $26 million over the next two years with an option for a third year. He just returned from spinal fusion surgery so I'm sure that contract will end well. haha
Can't believe a team got him without giving up a top prospect. Rangers kept Gallo and mazara.
Ah, no. Law likes the trade. Most reasonable people seem to like it. Sucks that you don't get their top prospect but they got next best thing: most of their next tier guys. As we've seen with Dom Brown, just because you are rated that high doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be a star. And, dude, this is a lot better than that proposed Cubs trade you seemed to like a couple days ago with Starlin Castro.
In last 8 months Phils have added 8 AA pitchers. There is now a lot of depth in the Phils farm...and it's been built faster than most would've expected. I'd expect them to rated significantly higher when new rankings come out.
From Law's actual article:
"Ultimately, the Phillies got two highly regarded but flawed position player prospects, a high-probability starting pitching prospect who has a chance to be a solid No. 3, and a pair of depth arms. That's a good mixture of quantity and quality for Hamels, exactly what they should have tried to get in this franchise-altering opportunity."
Can't believe a team got him without giving up a top prospect. Rangers kept Gallo and mazara.
Ah, no. Law likes the trade. Most reasonable people seem to like it. Sucks that you don't get their top prospect but they got next best thing: most of their next tier guys. As we've seen with Dom Brown, just because you are rated that high doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be a star. And, dude, this is a lot better than that proposed Cubs trade you seemed to like a couple days ago with Starlin Castro.
In last 8 months Phils have added 8 AA pitchers. There is now a lot of depth in the Phils farm...and it's been built faster than most would've expected. I'd expect them to rated significantly higher when new rankings come out.
From Law's actual article:
"Ultimately, the Phillies got two highly regarded but flawed position player prospects, a high-probability starting pitching prospect who has a chance to be a solid No. 3, and a pair of depth arms. That's a good mixture of quantity and quality for Hamels, exactly what they should have tried to get in this franchise-altering opportunity."
I must have misinterpreted what he was saying on Twitter last night. I know people don't like Castro and Baez but I don't get how this is much better. I get Castro but Baez has a carer OPS of almost .900 and is destroying triple a pitching, in the PCL, but still
And don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily think it's bad, i just think it's comical they didn't get top prospects after 18 months of posturing
Can't believe a team got him without giving up a top prospect. Rangers kept Gallo and mazara.
Ah, no. Law likes the trade. Most reasonable people seem to like it. Sucks that you don't get their top prospect but they got next best thing: most of their next tier guys. As we've seen with Dom Brown, just because you are rated that high doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be a star. And, dude, this is a lot better than that proposed Cubs trade you seemed to like a couple days ago with Starlin Castro.
In last 8 months Phils have added 8 AA pitchers. There is now a lot of depth in the Phils farm...and it's been built faster than most would've expected. I'd expect them to rated significantly higher when new rankings come out.
From Law's actual article:
"Ultimately, the Phillies got two highly regarded but flawed position player prospects, a high-probability starting pitching prospect who has a chance to be a solid No. 3, and a pair of depth arms. That's a good mixture of quantity and quality for Hamels, exactly what they should have tried to get in this franchise-altering opportunity."
I must have misinterpreted what he was saying on Twitter last night. I know people don't like Castro and Baez but I don't get how this is much better. I get Castro but Baez has a carer OPS of almost .900 and is destroying triple a pitching, in the PCL, but still
And don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily think it's bad, i just think it's comical they didn't get top prospects after 18 months of posturing
I think it would've be a lot more comical if they didn't back down from asking for the world like was reported for the last year and failed to trade him. They got a pretty decent haul and their farm system is plenty deep right now.
Having a hard time finding sites and writers who regularly bash the Phils saying otherwise. I'm sure you've read this one already:
"It’s a lot of fun to mock Ruben Amaro. To say that he should’ve started rebuilding two years ago, etc. etc. And there’s a lot of truth in such criticisms. But credit where it is due: Amaro did well in trading Cole Hamels to the Rangers yesterday."
Can't believe a team got him without giving up a top prospect. Rangers kept Gallo and mazara.
Ah, no. Law likes the trade. Most reasonable people seem to like it. Sucks that you don't get their top prospect but they got next best thing: most of their next tier guys. As we've seen with Dom Brown, just because you are rated that high doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be a star. And, dude, this is a lot better than that proposed Cubs trade you seemed to like a couple days ago with Starlin Castro.
In last 8 months Phils have added 8 AA pitchers. There is now a lot of depth in the Phils farm...and it's been built faster than most would've expected. I'd expect them to rated significantly higher when new rankings come out.
From Law's actual article:
"Ultimately, the Phillies got two highly regarded but flawed position player prospects, a high-probability starting pitching prospect who has a chance to be a solid No. 3, and a pair of depth arms. That's a good mixture of quantity and quality for Hamels, exactly what they should have tried to get in this franchise-altering opportunity."
I must have misinterpreted what he was saying on Twitter last night. I know people don't like Castro and Baez but I don't get how this is much better. I get Castro but Baez has a carer OPS of almost .900 and is destroying triple a pitching, in the PCL, but still
And don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily think it's bad, i just think it's comical they didn't get top prospects after 18 months of posturing
I think it would've be a lot more comical if they didn't back down from asking for the world like was reported for the last year and failed to trade him. They got a pretty decent haul and their farm system is plenty deep right now.
Having a hard time finding sites and writers who regularly bash the Phils saying otherwise. I'm sure you've read this one already:
"It’s a lot of fun to mock Ruben Amaro. To say that he should’ve started rebuilding two years ago, etc. etc. And there’s a lot of truth in such criticisms. But credit where it is due: Amaro did well in trading Cole Hamels to the Rangers yesterday."
I haven't read anything on it yet. Got home from traveling for work just before 11 last night, saw it, scanned twitter and passed out. I definitely agree that that would have been a much worse look.
the return on this hamels trade sounds horrendous. exactly what I've expected under this abortion of an executive team. they just don't get it...fucking idiots
who are you hearing they are getting in return?
jorge alfaro - catcher chi chi gonzalez - rhp nick williams - LF and possibly another low level guy yet to be named
alfaro is the main get here. I think centering a return for an ace in his prime around a catcher is ridiculously stupid (but certainly not surprising because it's the phillies). It's like trading an NFL qb for a tight end
THIS.
Honestly, though, I don't mind this trade. Allegedly, Hamels blocked a trade from Houston, so that's who I would've liked to have seen them make this deal with, but I think they did as well as they were gonna do.
I think Thompson and Williams can be players. They went from a woeful farm system to having 5 of the top 100 prospects.
I can't argue with what they did. And I'm not going to bitch about Diekman, but I still like him. Think he's going to get better, but who knows playing in Texas.
Phillies effectively reload their farm system with Cole Hamels deal
Keith Law, ESPN Insider
Cole Hamels represented the Philadelphia Phillies' best chance to accelerate the long-overdue rebuilding of their farm system, given his contract and the quality of his performance over the past few years. He makes the Texas Rangers better now and for next year, but at a price that pushes the Phillies' farm system forward significantly.
The Rangers are four games out of the second wild-card spot at this writing, seven out of the top slot, and would have to pass at least six other teams to make the playoffs. So while Hamels helps them this year to the tune of probably a win and a half or more of added value, the real boost is for 2016 and beyond, when the Rangers project to be a better club and could roll out a rotation of Hamels, a healthy Yu Darvish, a healthy Martin Perez and Chi Chi Gonzalez.
Hamels' no-hitter aside, he's among the best left-handed starters in baseball, with a 80-grade changeup, a solid-average fastball and an above-average cutter, as well as a slow curveball that has been more effective this year than I would have guessed given how it looks from a scouting perspective. He throws strikes and he's missing more bats this year than in any season since 2007. Even if his velocity slips as he gets older, he has all the ingredients -- the incredible changeup, the assortment of pitches, the control, the feel for pitching -- to remain just as effective deep into his 30s. He was the most valuable trade asset on the market this summer, and in acquiring him and erratic lefty specialist Jake Diekman, the Rangers had to pay highly -- but kept their top two prospects, Nomar Mazara and Joey Gallo, plus high-upside center fielder Lewis Brinson.
The Phillies get two top 100 prospects in return, three other prospects and veteran lefty Matt Harrison; Harrison has thrown just 43 innings since 2012 but is owed $28 million. The main dishes here are catcher Jorge Alfaro and right-hander Jake Thompson, with Alfaro ranking No. 49 in my last update and Thompson just missing the top 50. Alfaro, who is out until at least the Arizona Fall League due to a severe ankle injury, has an 80-grade arm and 80 raw power, but has shown very little improvement in his plate discipline over the past few years and has to be more willing to work the count to get to that power in games. He has the tools to be an above-average receiver and framer, but hasn't always put the required work into the task.
Thompson was acquired last year for Joakim Soria from Detroit, and has struggled a little bit in Double-A this year, but he's only 21 years old, built like a workhorse already, with an average to above-average fastball and plus slider. He should come right to Double-A Reading and joins a surprisingly good stable of arms in the upper levels of the Phillies' system, along with Aaron Nola, Jesse Biddle and Zach Eflin.
Jerad Eickhoff might be a back-end starter or a middle reliever; he’s a strike-thrower with a low-90s fastball who should at least remain a starter for now because he has shown the durability and potential repertoire for it. Alec Asher has arm strength and control, but is probably a reliever due to the lack of secondary stuff or fastball life.
Nick Williams has had a tremendous year at the plate for Double-A Frisco at the age of 21, with good bat speed and above-average raw power, but I still have serious concerns about the approach, the poor pitch recognition, and the below-average instincts in the field. Williams walked just 20 times in nearly 500 PAs last year, and outside of a little burst of patience in May, he has gone right back to his old ways. He's physically gifted, however, and should be able to play above-average defense in an outfield corner while hitting for average and power. Maybe he has the hand-eye coordination to get away with an impatient, undisciplined approach; he definitely has the bat speed to hit a major-league fastball, so much so that the bat might be out of the zone too quickly. I believe, based on numerous times seeing him play, that he'll perform below what his tools would lead you to expect, but his performance to date, especially this year, says otherwise.
Ultimately, the Phillies got two highly regarded but flawed position player prospects, a high-probability starting pitching prospect who has a chance to be a solid No. 3, and a pair of depth arms. That's a good mixture of quantity and quality for Hamels, exactly what they should have tried to get in this franchise-altering opportunity.
Comments
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Can't argue with what they got for Papelbone - the fact that they don't have to pay a dime of his salary next season is a victory in and of itself.
Now, they have till Friday to fuck it all up....
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
chi chi gonzalez - rhp
nick williams - LF
and possibly another low level guy yet to be named
alfaro is the main get here. I think centering a return for an ace in his prime around a catcher is ridiculously stupid (but certainly not surprising because it's the phillies). It's like trading an NFL qb for a tight end
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
matt harrison, jerad eickoff, jorge alfaro, nick williams, alec asher, jake thompson to philly
below cut/pasted from my go to sites...
Williams has really good bat control and can square up almost anything (.296 BA in over 1000 PA), but he has such an undisciplined approach that he’s striking out nearly 30% of the time with walks rates below 5%. When you’re more talented that everyone else and pitchers are still making mistake pitches, you can get by with this approach, but past exampled show us it’s hard to change a bad approach this late in development.
Scouts have questioned Williams’ aptitude to make changes since back to high school and have routinely crushed him for lackadaisical defensive play and slow jumps out of the batter’s box. Williams’ plate discipline isn’t the only thing holding back his power from showing up in games, as his swing is geared for line drives up the middle.
When you combine his fringy defense, lack of focus, left field profile, unsustainable strikeout rates and contact-oriented approach, you suddenly have an athletic, left-handed hitting 20-year-old with great bat control and plus raw power that’s performing well and scouts aren’t that enthused.
Summation: All that said Williams still projects as a league average bat that could be at least average defensively and on the bases if he chooses to be, with the upside to become more. 50 FV makes sense here and there’s a good reason for the Rangers to promote him aggressively: to break his bad habits, he has to be challenged.
has pull power and some natural feel to hit, but his approach is just awful, with no plate discipline or demonstrated ability to make adjustments; even in the field, it's all physical gifts, no aptitude.
Scouting Report: Williams has some of the fastest hands in the minors. He has a loose, free-and-easy swing that’s quick and explosive. He has plus raw power and can go deep to any part of the park, though his stroke is more geared for line drives than loft. Scouts consistently praise Williams for his hitting actions, even though he strikes out frequently. That’s because he has trouble recognizing pitches and chases too many balls out of the strike zone, which leads to excessive strikeouts and minimal walks. Williams is an above-average runner with an average arm, so he’s rotated between all three outfield positions. He’s still learning to become a more efficient basestealer, which will improve once he’s able to time his jumps better.
The Future: Scouts inclined to dream on Williams think he can become the Rangers’ version of Carlos Gonzalez. If he can’t shrink his strike zone, then his approach carries enough risk that the downside could be Felix Pie. He will return to a loaded Frisco team in 2015.
Scouting Report: Alfaro has two standout tools in his power and arm strength. His bat speed, explosive hips and strength generate plus raw power, though he remains a power-over-hit prospect who’s still trying to tone down his aggressive approach, improve his pitch recognition and make more contact. He could grow to be an average hitter, which is plenty good for a catcher with his power. Alfaro is athletic and is one of the fastest catchers in baseball, a legitimate average runner. His double-plus arm generates pop times of sub-1.9 seconds on throws to second base. He’s never been a shutdown defender of the running game, but he threw out basestealers at a solid 28 percent clip in 2014. Alfaro has the attributes to catch, but he’s still a well below-average receiver who committed 23 passed balls in 90 games in 2014.
The Future: Alfaro’s defensive issues are troubling, but his ceiling is an above-average player whose power can carry him. He likely returns to Double-A Frisco to start 2015.
Alfaro had a significant ankle injury (with tendon damage) that has probably ended his 2015 season, but he remains one of the minors' best catching prospects thanks to his combination of 80 raw power and 80 arm strength. The injury is particularly damaging to Alfaro, however, as the two facets of his game on which he needs the most work, plate discipline and receiving, typically improve only with more playing time.
Alfaro is another guy like Gallo in that he has big flashy tools that most fans normally associate with big league stars, but problems making contact that could hold it all back. While Gallo has taken a big step forward this year, Alfaro is making more steady progress, slowly tightening up his zone and finding the right amount of aggression at the plate.
His plus raw power may never fully play at the big league level, but since he can stick behind the plate, it won’t have to. Alfaro has the tools to be an above average defender and his plus-plus arm is a huge weapon, but he still needs some work on the finer points of catching, as his arm strength allows him to get away with stuff in the minors that he won’t be able to do in the majors.
Thompson slipped to the 2nd round out of high school because his stuff was mostly average, but would tick up at times. That was the book on him earlier this year at High-A Lakeland for Detroit, when he’d start games at 90-92, hitting 93-95 at times and then dip to 88-91 later in the game with a solid average three-pitch mix. In the Florida State League All-Star Game, Thompson sat 93-96 in a one-inning appearance and his slider was at least a 60, though it was a higher effort delivery he didn’t use when starting.
Thompson was dealt to the Rangers mid-season in the Joakim Soria trade and scouts that saw him in the Texas League have been reporting he’s 92-96 with a 60 slider that is sometimes a 70 in short stints. There’s an average change and impact stuff as a starter, but there’s also some effort to the delivery, so the fit may be in the bullpen. Given that Thompson appears to be the rare example (like Joba Chamberlain or Jonathan Papelbon) where the stuff ticks up a lot in relief, he may be best suited as a closer, but Texas would be foolish to not see if Thompson can be a 200 inning mid-rotation workhorse.
Summation: The Rangers are pleasantly surprised with the enhanced stuff Thompson started showing essentially right when they traded for him and they want to develop him as a starter. He’s on the fast track as a starter and if Texas gets back into the pennant race next season, it would be hard to not work him into the big leagues in short stints in 2015 before trying as a starter in 2016.
The Tigers sacrificed their first-round pick in 2012 to sign Prince Fielder, so Thompson at No. 91 overall was their top selection. Detroit held him back in extended spring training the first two months of 2013, but he flew threw the system after that slow start, reaching Double-A Erie as a 20-year-old in July 2014. Two starts later, the Tigers packaged him with relief prospect Corey Knebel to add reliever Joakim Soria to a thin Tigers bullpen.
Scouting Report: Thompson throws two-seam and four-seam fastballs downhill at 89-95 mph, with good sink and tail on his two-seamer. His best secondary weapon is his plus slider, a swing-and-miss pitch with two-plane break that flashes 70 on the 20-80 scale. Thompson didn’t use his changeup much early in his career, but it’s become an average pitch with projection to tick up. He mixes in an occasional curveball as well, and it too can be average. He’s a solid strike-thrower, though he could tighten up his fastball command.
The Future: The Tigers’ desperation for bullpen help is the Rangers’ gain. As a potential No. 2 or 3 starter, Thompson could be a steal. He’s slated to return to Double-A Frisco to open 2015.
Thompson, who ranked fifth in Detroit's system last offseason, was a slider-heavy monster in 2013, posting strong results but worrying scouts with his over-reliance on that pitch in the Midwest League. The Tigers did an excellent job fashioning him into a more traditional starting pitching prospect last spring, getting him to pitch more with his fastball, a shift that increased his value and allowed them to trade him for Joakim Soria in July.
Thompson is a big, physical horse with above-average velocity and that slider, which is a swing-and-miss pitch against right-handed batters and good enough to get some left-handed batters as well. It has power and tilt at 83-84 mph, but having him use it less often so he can work on his still-developing changeup, not yet an average pitch, would better set him up to join the rotation in 2016 or 2017. One concern is that despite his size, there's still some effort to his delivery, with no pause at his leg kick and slight stiffness at release. He looks the part of a mid-rotation starter and has the necessary out pitch to get there.
Alec Asher, RHP Asher had some buzz early in the season as 3rd/4th starter as he hit 96 mph with a slider that flashed plus, but the stuff has backed up a lot and now some scouts have him as only an emergency call-up type. There’s some injury history and now a flat 89-92 mph fastball has been his only average pitch for the last few months.
Can't believe a team got him without giving up a top prospect. Rangers kept Gallo and mazara.
I don't really like gallo. I wanted mazara at a minimum.
macFAIL. looks like he will fit right in with the current regime.
this is fucking depressing
In last 8 months Phils have added 8 AA pitchers. There is now a lot of depth in the Phils farm...and it's been built faster than most would've expected. I'd expect them to rated significantly higher when new rankings come out.
From Law's actual article:
"Ultimately, the Phillies got two highly regarded but flawed position player prospects, a high-probability starting pitching prospect who has a chance to be a solid No. 3, and a pair of depth arms. That's a good mixture of quantity and quality for Hamels, exactly what they should have tried to get in this franchise-altering opportunity."
http://philliesminorthoughts.com/phillies-rangers-hamels-deal-coming-together/
And don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily think it's bad, i just think it's comical they didn't get top prospects after 18 months of posturing
Having a hard time finding sites and writers who regularly bash the Phils saying otherwise. I'm sure you've read this one already:
"It’s a lot of fun to mock Ruben Amaro. To say that he should’ve started rebuilding two years ago, etc. etc. And there’s a lot of truth in such criticisms. But credit where it is due: Amaro did well in trading Cole Hamels to the Rangers yesterday."
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/30/both-the-phillies-and-the-rangers-did-well-in-the-cole-hamels-trade/
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
Honestly, though, I don't mind this trade. Allegedly, Hamels blocked a trade from Houston, so that's who I would've liked to have seen them make this deal with, but I think they did as well as they were gonna do.
I think Thompson and Williams can be players. They went from a woeful farm system to having 5 of the top 100 prospects.
I can't argue with what they did. And I'm not going to bitch about Diekman, but I still like him. Think he's going to get better, but who knows playing in Texas.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
Phillies effectively reload their farm system with Cole Hamels deal
Keith Law, ESPN Insider
Cole Hamels represented the Philadelphia Phillies' best chance to accelerate the long-overdue rebuilding of their farm system, given his contract and the quality of his performance over the past few years. He makes the Texas Rangers better now and for next year, but at a price that pushes the Phillies' farm system forward significantly.
The Rangers are four games out of the second wild-card spot at this writing, seven out of the top slot, and would have to pass at least six other teams to make the playoffs. So while Hamels helps them this year to the tune of probably a win and a half or more of added value, the real boost is for 2016 and beyond, when the Rangers project to be a better club and could roll out a rotation of Hamels, a healthy Yu Darvish, a healthy Martin Perez and Chi Chi Gonzalez.
Hamels' no-hitter aside, he's among the best left-handed starters in baseball, with a 80-grade changeup, a solid-average fastball and an above-average cutter, as well as a slow curveball that has been more effective this year than I would have guessed given how it looks from a scouting perspective. He throws strikes and he's missing more bats this year than in any season since 2007. Even if his velocity slips as he gets older, he has all the ingredients -- the incredible changeup, the assortment of pitches, the control, the feel for pitching -- to remain just as effective deep into his 30s. He was the most valuable trade asset on the market this summer, and in acquiring him and erratic lefty specialist Jake Diekman, the Rangers had to pay highly -- but kept their top two prospects, Nomar Mazara and Joey Gallo, plus high-upside center fielder Lewis Brinson.
The Phillies get two top 100 prospects in return, three other prospects and veteran lefty Matt Harrison; Harrison has thrown just 43 innings since 2012 but is owed $28 million. The main dishes here are catcher Jorge Alfaro and right-hander Jake Thompson, with Alfaro ranking No. 49 in my last update and Thompson just missing the top 50. Alfaro, who is out until at least the Arizona Fall League due to a severe ankle injury, has an 80-grade arm and 80 raw power, but has shown very little improvement in his plate discipline over the past few years and has to be more willing to work the count to get to that power in games. He has the tools to be an above-average receiver and framer, but hasn't always put the required work into the task.
Thompson was acquired last year for Joakim Soria from Detroit, and has struggled a little bit in Double-A this year, but he's only 21 years old, built like a workhorse already, with an average to above-average fastball and plus slider. He should come right to Double-A Reading and joins a surprisingly good stable of arms in the upper levels of the Phillies' system, along with Aaron Nola, Jesse Biddle and Zach Eflin.
Jerad Eickhoff might be a back-end starter or a middle reliever; he’s a strike-thrower with a low-90s fastball who should at least remain a starter for now because he has shown the durability and potential repertoire for it. Alec Asher has arm strength and control, but is probably a reliever due to the lack of secondary stuff or fastball life.
Nick Williams has had a tremendous year at the plate for Double-A Frisco at the age of 21, with good bat speed and above-average raw power, but I still have serious concerns about the approach, the poor pitch recognition, and the below-average instincts in the field. Williams walked just 20 times in nearly 500 PAs last year, and outside of a little burst of patience in May, he has gone right back to his old ways. He's physically gifted, however, and should be able to play above-average defense in an outfield corner while hitting for average and power. Maybe he has the hand-eye coordination to get away with an impatient, undisciplined approach; he definitely has the bat speed to hit a major-league fastball, so much so that the bat might be out of the zone too quickly. I believe, based on numerous times seeing him play, that he'll perform below what his tools would lead you to expect, but his performance to date, especially this year, says otherwise.
Ultimately, the Phillies got two highly regarded but flawed position player prospects, a high-probability starting pitching prospect who has a chance to be a solid No. 3, and a pair of depth arms. That's a good mixture of quantity and quality for Hamels, exactly what they should have tried to get in this franchise-altering opportunity.
I hate this trade