Something I also think is beyond silly... people who say stupid shit like, 'Oh, they aren't a REAL Republican'. That moronic acronym, RINO (Republican in Name Only) uttered by morons that think they are in charge of deciding who is who. Who died and put them in charge? I didn't leave the Republican Party... the idiots that took over it drove me away.
I'm unhappy with both partys (rep and dem) no class shit talking nonsense....I'm tired of it.
Very politically outspoken left-wing band = left-leaning fan base. Makes sense (and btw, I disagree that the fan base is centrist. I think it's quite clearly left-leaning if we're talking averages). I often wonder about right-wingers who are 10C members... doesn't make too much sense to me. Why would someone be a massive fan of a band when their very clear message - including that which is within their music in so many cases - go against what they believe in? :-/ I would NEVER be a big fan of a band that was very politically driven and outspoken and right wing. As someone who is left wing, why would I?? That wouldn't make any sense.
Some folks aren't scared of other people's ideas and can show respect for those they disagree with. I would think that would be what a "liberal" would think too but doesn't seem to work that way.
it is important to me to be on the right side of history. i do not want my grandchildren's generation to mock me the way they will mock the current republican party and tea party, who have been on the wrong side of history on every issue the last 40 years.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I just want it known I participated. Rightly or wrongly. I was engaged in it. At least partially. Next election I would put a yard sign in that says . Vote. dont care who , dont care why. Just vote. be an active participant.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Very politically outspoken left-wing band = left-leaning fan base. Makes sense (and btw, I disagree that the fan base is centrist. I think it's quite clearly left-leaning if we're talking averages). I often wonder about right-wingers who are 10C members... doesn't make too much sense to me. Why would someone be a massive fan of a band when their very clear message - including that which is within their music in so many cases - go against what they believe in? :-/ I would NEVER be a big fan of a band that was very politically driven and outspoken and right wing. As someone who is left wing, why would I?? That wouldn't make any sense.
Some folks aren't scared of other people's ideas and can show respect for those they disagree with. I would think that would be what a "liberal" would think too but doesn't seem to work that way.
What do you mean, "scared of other people's ideas"? And "show respect for those they disagree with"?? I am neither scared nor disrespectful. I didn't say I run screaming from bands that play music that expresses right-wing views or spit on them. But I'm not about to be spending my time as a fan of musicians who write songs about the right to bear arms, anti-abortionists, the majesty of capitalism and non-regulation, and war for oil, just for example, right??? I wouldn't. It would make me a hypocrite and kind of a weirdo.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I have no idea what I am... I admit that I am Pro-Choice... but, don't buy into the bullshit that I'm pro-abortion. I would HOPE the choice that is made would be other available options and hope that abortion is the last resort... but, I will not be the one to make that call. That is her decision.. her choice. Not mine.. not yours... not our government's decision. and i will protect that right for her to choose. Also, if you claim to be Pro-Life... and support Death Penalties and War... you are not Pro-Life. Just admit it.. you are Anti-Abortion. I am a believer in 2nd Amendment Rights... but, I also believe that those that choose to exercise that right MUST be held responsile and accountable for that choice. And just because anybody CAN own a gun does not mean that everybody SHOULD OWN a gun. We have a lot of citizens that shouldn't be trusted with a gun. Don't believe me? Walk through your local Wal-Mart on a Saturday and tell me you'd feel safer if everyone in there had a loaded gun on them. I believe in a strong, efficient military. Used only in defense of our nation... not our corporation's best interests. We don't need to build more tanks if our Army doesn't want more tanks. Spend the money elsewhere. I've voted for and will continue to vote for both Republican and Democratic candidates. i have come to understand it has always been a choice between shit or crap... i simply vote for the shit or crap that is the smaller portion and stinks less. We are a long way from a viable Third Party alternative. I believe in the free market... but I KNOW the players in the market cannot be trusted. They are worse than our politicians when it comes to ethics. Look at our banking and financial systems and tell me you trust them... if you do, i'll call you a fool. If they were trustworthy, there would be no need for regulation. Regulation comes about because of their greed and the shit they pull on us. I believe that we should take a humanitarian approach to the imigration issue. Like them or not, they are STILL Human beings... as much as you believe in your superiority over them. They should be treated as humans and we should work with Mexico, Guatemala and the other Central American countries to solve the issue. I understand that our retail/service based economy depends on their hard work. Yes, HARD WORK. Don't believe me? Pick strawberries for a week on their pay and get back to me on that. I believe America can and should lead... but, how about we lead by example, rather than going for the military option every fucking time? i don't know about you... but, i'm tired of being the World's Police. I believe in science. I know that science doesn't know everything and does not have all of the answers... because science admits to me that it does not know everything and does not have all of the answers. I also know that science is science and religion is religion and they are not opposing teams and you can still have faith in a religion and understand that evolution is part of the scientific process. i oppose any one religion granted privilege over all others... even if it were my religion... which I don't have. But, just because i don't have religion, doesn't mean you shouldn't have one... of your choosing, not the state's. Finally, i believe the television is for entertainment purposes, only. It's for Hockey games and Baseball and whatever... except as a place where you form your opinion. If you get your political opinions from a television news celebrities... be it Bill O'Rielly or Rachel Maddow or Sean Hannity or Ann Coulter or whomever is trying to sell their current book... i'm sorry, but you are an idiot. Form your opinion on facts, not on some shit you hear on the T.V. You were given a brain.. fucking use it. Don't just fill it with other people's opinions. i don't care if you disagree with me.. but, come at me armed with facts... and i'll listen. Come at me with regurgitated bullshit you hear on T.V. and i'll write you off and 'Just Another Fucking Moron'. ... So, go ahead and slap whatever bullshit label on me because, personally... I don't give a fuck about any bullshit labeling criteria.
You have garnered my utmost respect. I don't think I have ever read anything regarding the political issues of today that was written so clearly and unembellished to be forceful of ones political leanings. That was, in my opinion, everything that the framers of the constitution had in mind when discussing ideas and governance. It was energizing reading your post which I'll admit I almost didn't due to its length but glad I did. Great-minded people discuss ideas, thoughts and have opinions derived from facts and can debate based on intelligence. Your post was greatness.
Very politically outspoken left-wing band = left-leaning fan base. Makes sense (and btw, I disagree that the fan base is centrist. I think it's quite clearly left-leaning if we're talking averages). I often wonder about right-wingers who are 10C members... doesn't make too much sense to me. Why would someone be a massive fan of a band when their very clear message - including that which is within their music in so many cases - go against what they believe in? :-/ I would NEVER be a big fan of a band that was very politically driven and outspoken and right wing. As someone who is left wing, why would I?? That wouldn't make any sense.
Some folks aren't scared of other people's ideas and can show respect for those they disagree with. I would think that would be what a "liberal" would think too but doesn't seem to work that way.
What do you mean, "scared of other people's ideas"? And "show respect for those they disagree with"?? I am neither scared nor disrespectful. I didn't say I run screaming from bands that play music that expresses right-wing views or spit on them. But I'm not about to be spending my time as a fan of musicians who write songs about the right to bear arms, anti-abortionists, the majesty of capitalism and non-regulation, and war for oil, just for example, right??? I wouldn't. It would make me a hypocrite and kind of a weirdo.
Liberals support abortion, which is by definition the killing of a fetus. Conservatives find that a little weird too. Each side has their issues they have to live with.
As a conservative I am pro-life, pro-guns (with certain requirements to own) and pro-capitalism (self-determination). As a conservative (and a human), I can understand why Pearl Jam takes an opposite stance on all three of those items, and I know they are not taking those positions out of some selfish motive, but have sincere reasons. I can respect their differing opinions and enjoy their music and don't think of them as bad people. That is not weird or hypocritical. It is called being open minded and not closing yourself off to listen to only people that agree with your worldview. My opinions have changed because of listening to Pearl Jam, reading posts by liberals on this board, etc.... I guess to be normal I should have listened to only Ted Nugent.
I just want it known I participated. Rightly or wrongly. I was engaged in it. At least partially. Next election I would put a yard sign in that says . Vote. dont care who , dont care why. Just vote. be an active participant.
sorry, but voting in november is not participating. Choosing between two candidate with which you disagree does nothing to dismantle the status quo. Each time there is a true people's movement (labor struggles and socialism in early 1900's, counter-culture and war protest in the later half) it is destroyed when the power of the people as a whole is siphoned into electoral politics. You can't fight fire with fire and you can't change electoral politics at the polls. Living the change you wish for is the only vote that makes a difference.
Liberals support abortion, which is by definition the killing of a fetus. Conservatives find that a little weird too. Each side has their issues they have to live with.
As a conservative I am pro-life, pro-guns (with certain requirements to own) and pro-capitalism (self-determination). As a conservative (and a human), I can understand why Pearl Jam takes an opposite stance on all three of those items, and I know they are not taking those positions out of some selfish motive, but have sincere reasons. I can respect their differing opinions and enjoy their music and don't think of them as bad people. That is not weird or hypocritical. It is called being open minded and not closing yourself off to listen to only people that agree with your worldview. My opinions have changed because of listening to Pearl Jam, reading posts by liberals on this board, etc.... I guess to be normal I should have listened to only Ted Nugent.
... In my personal opinion... I think we get all muddled up, yet closely attached to our political labels... Liberals, Conservatives, Right Wing, Left Wing, Republican, Democrat, Red State, Blue State. Aren't we ALL individuals? Don't we ALL form and define who we are? Why do we need someone to stick a label on us in order to define ourselves? ... From my view, I think it is all bullshit because guess who came up with all of these bullshit labels? Bullshit spewing politicians and their media minions in order for us to pick a team... like the way we pick our football or baseball teams. They understand that the American masses are almost completely illiterate in the field of political science. But, boy... do we understand sports. We are sports experts, right? We pick our team... On the Right side of the field is The Conservative Republicans in their Red uniforms and their elephant mascot versus the Liberal Democrats in their Blue jerseys and their mule mascot on the Left side of the field. The object of the game.. like in any other game... to destroy the opposing team and WIN!!! They have turned politics into sports, not to educate us in politics... they did it because they know it is a way they can control us... by dividing us into opposing teams that are much easier to control. And like fucking morons... we eat that shit up. ... That is HOW we got so divided. That is why nothing ever gets done. The politicians don't care because they know we are idiots. We continually say, 'Toss them all out!'... but, the politicians know us well... we want to toss everyone else's guy out.. but, we want to KEEP our guy. That is WHY our guy gets re-elected and keeps us divided. Because we are really... politically... we are morons. We vote for the name we've heard before or because there is an (R) or a (D) next to their name... that's how we define the 'good guys'. If anyone is to blame.. it is us. We have the POWER to vote them all out... but, we lack the courage to break ranks and do it. Politicians aren't stupid... they are lawyers and millionaires. They aren't stupid... but, they know we are stupid. And they know we know our sports. .... We need to tell them to do their job. We need to fire them and quit worrying about 'our team' controlling the Senate and the House. And I don't want to hear any of that bullshit about Rand Paul not being like them and deserving another term... it's pure Bullshit! He is seated in the Congress right now. He is one of them. Sorry, he has to go, too... no matter how much you like him. That whole bullshit empty threat about throwing them all out (except my guy) has to end. I hope that some day, we all have the courage to throw off our convienient labels and speak for ourselves. The only label you should keep is American.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Something I also think is beyond silly... people who say stupid shit like, 'Oh, they aren't a REAL Republican'. That moronic acronym, RINO (Republican in Name Only) uttered by morons that think they are in charge of deciding who is who. Who died and put them in charge? I didn't leave the Republican Party... the idiots that took over it drove me away.
Some people also like to say, "Oh, they aren't traditional Republicans" and go on to cite Theodore Roosevelt and his setting aside wilderness areas. Of course, these same people neglect to mention that Teddy set aside these wild areas so he and his kountry klub pals could go out and blast the shit out of as many large mammals as they could find.
Not that I have it in for all Republicans. Some of them are very fine people. My first wife, for example.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Something I also think is beyond silly... people who say stupid shit like, 'Oh, they aren't a REAL Republican'. That moronic acronym, RINO (Republican in Name Only) uttered by morons that think they are in charge of deciding who is who. Who died and put them in charge? I didn't leave the Republican Party... the idiots that took over it drove me away.
I'm unhappy with both partys (rep and dem) no class shit talking nonsense....I'm tired of it. Godfather.
Some people also like to say, "Oh, they aren't traditional Republicans" and go on to cite Theodore Roosevelt and his setting aside wilderness areas. Of course, these same people neglect to mention that Teddy set aside these wild areas so he and his kountry klub pals could go out and blast the shit out of as many large mammals as they could find.
Not that I have it in for all Republicans. Some of them are very fine people. My first wife, for example.
... I just think it is silly when people act like they are some sort of authority on what the model Republican (or the model Christian or the model Pearl Jam fan) should be. Saying stuff like, 'Oh, he's not a REAL Republican'... (or 'She's not a REAL Christian' or 'They aren't REAL Pearl Jam Fans') implies that the person saying those things IS the real Republican (or Christian or Pearl Jam Fan). It really just makes them look like self serving dolts.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Very politically outspoken left-wing band = left-leaning fan base. Makes sense (and btw, I disagree that the fan base is centrist. I think it's quite clearly left-leaning if we're talking averages). I often wonder about right-wingers who are 10C members... doesn't make too much sense to me. Why would someone be a massive fan of a band when their very clear message - including that which is within their music in so many cases - go against what they believe in? :-/ I would NEVER be a big fan of a band that was very politically driven and outspoken and right wing. As someone who is left wing, why would I?? That wouldn't make any sense.
Some folks aren't scared of other people's ideas and can show respect for those they disagree with. I would think that would be what a "liberal" would think too but doesn't seem to work that way.
What do you mean, "scared of other people's ideas"? And "show respect for those they disagree with"?? I am neither scared nor disrespectful. I didn't say I run screaming from bands that play music that expresses right-wing views or spit on them. But I'm not about to be spending my time as a fan of musicians who write songs about the right to bear arms, anti-abortionists, the majesty of capitalism and non-regulation, and war for oil, just for example, right??? I wouldn't. It would make me a hypocrite and kind of a weirdo.
Liberals support abortion, which is by definition the killing of a fetus. Conservatives find that a little weird too. Each side has their issues they have to live with.
As a conservative I am pro-life, pro-guns (with certain requirements to own) and pro-capitalism (self-determination). As a conservative (and a human), I can understand why Pearl Jam takes an opposite stance on all three of those items, and I know they are not taking those positions out of some selfish motive, but have sincere reasons. I can respect their differing opinions and enjoy their music and don't think of them as bad people. That is not weird or hypocritical. It is called being open minded and not closing yourself off to listen to only people that agree with your worldview. My opinions have changed because of listening to Pearl Jam, reading posts by liberals on this board, etc.... I guess to be normal I should have listened to only Ted Nugent.
honestly, my take away from that is that I guess you must take the issues less seriously than me. Either that, or yeah, you're a weirdo, because being a fan of someone who has spoken VERY strongly for the right to what you consider to be the murder of babies does not seem normal at all.
No, i'm not about to be a fan of a band who preaches stripping me of my rights as a woman or that guns shohldn't be regulated or that war for oil is okay or that it's anything other than inhumane to allow people tondie just because they can't afford healthcare, or that gays don't deserve equality. Fuck that. Those ideals make me angry and are completely offensive to me, and are things that i think lend to a barbaric mindset in society. So i'm not about to feel bad about not wanting to support any artist that pushes such ideas through their art. I think that would be nuts. I'm no apologist. I see no benefit in allowing myself to be understanding about those issues. Why should i accept things that i find offensive and harmful in the name of being "openminded"? For me, those are things to fight against (and they are for Pearl Jam too!). But for the record, i am generally an openminded person.... but not about issues like that. I do take time to understand and hear the opposing viewpoints, but more because i want to understand better what i'm so strongly against, not because i am willing to consider thataybe they're okay viewpoints. Nothingnwrong with standing strong for what you believe in!
But honestly, this is really hypothetical. I haven't even been exposed to any bands that support shit like that - lucky for me, most artists are in fact liberal.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In my personal opinion... I think we get all muddled up, yet closely attached to our political labels... Liberals, Conservatives, Right Wing, Left Wing, Republican, Democrat, Red State, Blue State. Aren't we ALL individuals? Don't we ALL form and define who we are? Why do we need someone to stick a label on us in order to define ourselves? ... From my view, I think it is all bullshit because guess who came up with all of these bullshit labels? Bullshit spewing politicians and their media minions in order for us to pick a team... like the way we pick our football or baseball teams. They understand that the American masses are almost completely illiterate in the field of political science. But, boy... do we understand sports. We are sports experts, right? We pick our team... On the Right side of the field is The Conservative Republicans in their Red uniforms and their elephant mascot versus the Liberal Democrats in their Blue jerseys and their mule mascot on the Left side of the field. The object of the game.. like in any other game... to destroy the opposing team and WIN!!! They have turned politics into sports, not to educate us in politics... they did it because they know it is a way they can control us... by dividing us into opposing teams that are much easier to control. And like fucking morons... we eat that shit up. ... That is HOW we got so divided. That is why nothing ever gets done. The politicians don't care because they know we are idiots. We continually say, 'Toss them all out!'... but, the politicians know us well... we want to toss everyone else's guy out.. but, we want to KEEP our guy. That is WHY our guy gets re-elected and keeps us divided. Because we are really... politically... we are morons. We vote for the name we've heard before or because there is an (R) or a (D) next to their name... that's how we define the 'good guys'. If anyone is to blame.. it is us. We have the POWER to vote them all out... but, we lack the courage to break ranks and do it. Politicians aren't stupid... they are lawyers and millionaires. They aren't stupid... but, they know we are stupid. And they know we know our sports. .... We need to tell them to do their job. We need to fire them and quit worrying about 'our team' controlling the Senate and the House. And I don't want to hear any of that bullshit about Rand Paul not being like them and deserving another term... it's pure Bullshit! He is seated in the Congress right now. He is one of them. Sorry, he has to go, too... no matter how much you like him. That whole bullshit empty threat about throwing them all out (except my guy) has to end. I hope that some day, we all have the courage to throw off our convienient labels and speak for ourselves. The only label you should keep is American.
Personally, even the "American" label is a turn off, because I don't like the stigmas and stereotypes that go with it.
I only like the label "human being" because that's what I am.
People need to realize that the government want us to label ourselves according to the 2 party system, therefore we're kept under control. Think outside that box and you're suddenly out of everyone's control and under only your own.
I just want it known I participated. Rightly or wrongly. I was engaged in it. At least partially. Next election I would put a yard sign in that says . Vote. dont care who , dont care why. Just vote. be an active participant.
sorry, but voting in november is not participating. Choosing between two candidate with which you disagree does nothing to dismantle the status quo. Each time there is a true people's movement (labor struggles and socialism in early 1900's, counter-culture and war protest in the later half) it is destroyed when the power of the people as a whole is siphoned into electoral politics. You can't fight fire with fire and you can't change electoral politics at the polls. Living the change you wish for is the only vote that makes a difference.
well for starters lets get more people to the polls to begin with hmm? we'll address the other art of your assumption about me later. http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Personally, even the "American" label is a turn off, because I don't like the stigmas and stereotypes that go with it.
I only like the label "human being" because that's what I am.
People need to realize that the government want us to label ourselves according to the 2 party system, therefore we're kept under control. Think outside that box and you're suddenly out of everyone's control and under only your own.
... I agree... the 'American' label has been tainted, of late. The'U-S-A!!!' chant has also taken a hit because of its overuse as a war cry. At a Hockey game in the Olympics... okay. As a cheer to send off someone else's kid to protect U.S. corporate interests... no. I just think that if we are going to label ourselves... we need to put those political labels where they belong... in the trash.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Personally, even the "American" label is a turn off, because I don't like the stigmas and stereotypes that go with it.
I only like the label "human being" because that's what I am.
People need to realize that the government want us to label ourselves according to the 2 party system, therefore we're kept under control. Think outside that box and you're suddenly out of everyone's control and under only your own.
... I agree... the 'American' label has been tainted, of late. The'U-S-A!!!' chant has also taken a hit because of its overuse as a war cry. At a Hockey game in the Olympics... okay. As a cheer to send off someone else's kid to protect U.S. corporate interests... no. I just think that if we are going to label ourselves... we need to put those political labels where they belong... in the trash.
As someone not American, I must admit, that "U-S-A!!" chant is very off-putting. It has a very aggressive vibe. I personally know and like Americans enough to know that most don't intend it that way, but I don't think the same can be said for most non-Americans. Most of them cringe at that, because, just as you say, it seems like a war cry.... at the Olympics and shit. lol
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Personally, even the "American" label is a turn off, because I don't like the stigmas and stereotypes that go with it.
I only like the label "human being" because that's what I am.
People need to realize that the government want us to label ourselves according to the 2 party system, therefore we're kept under control. Think outside that box and you're suddenly out of everyone's control and under only your own.
... I agree... the 'American' label has been tainted, of late. The'U-S-A!!!' chant has also taken a hit because of its overuse as a war cry. At a Hockey game in the Olympics... okay. As a cheer to send off someone else's kid to protect U.S. corporate interests... no. I just think that if we are going to label ourselves... we need to put those political labels where they belong... in the trash.
As someone not American, I must admit, that "U-S-A!!" chant is very off-putting. It has a very aggressive vibe. I personally know and like Americans enough to know that most don't intend it that way, but I don't think the same can be said for most non-Americans. Most of them cringe at that, because, just as you say, it seems like a war cry.... at the Olympics and shit. lol
... I agree. It used to be okay because it was rarely brought out, other than after Olympic wins. Now, it is usually heard by moronic crowds, celebrating war and destruction. Or at political rallies to make it seem like anyone that is not in their camp is somehow... less of an American. Let's put it to rest... along with the human wave at stadiums.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Personally, even the "American" label is a turn off, because I don't like the stigmas and stereotypes that go with it.
I only like the label "human being" because that's what I am.
People need to realize that the government want us to label ourselves according to the 2 party system, therefore we're kept under control. Think outside that box and you're suddenly out of everyone's control and under only your own.
... I agree... the 'American' label has been tainted, of late. The'U-S-A!!!' chant has also taken a hit because of its overuse as a war cry. At a Hockey game in the Olympics... okay. As a cheer to send off someone else's kid to protect U.S. corporate interests... no. I just think that if we are going to label ourselves... we need to put those political labels where they belong... in the trash.
As someone not American, I must admit, that "U-S-A!!" chant is very off-putting. It has a very aggressive vibe. I personally know and like Americans enough to know that most don't intend it that way, but I don't think the same can be said for most non-Americans. Most of them cringe at that, because, just as you say, it seems like a war cry.... at the Olympics and shit. lol
... I agree. It used to be okay because it was rarely brought out, other than after Olympic wins. Now, it is usually heard by moronic crowds, celebrating war and destruction. Or at political rallies to make it seem like anyone that is not in their camp is somehow... less of an American. Let's put it to rest... along with the human wave at stadiums.
The very worst instance for me was when that guy who bombed the Boston Marathon was tracked down and captured. People swarmed out on the streets and chanted it right after the bloody capture, which, of course, was lead up to with the death of the younger brother and a security guard. When I saw everyone gather and start chanting "U-S-A!!" after all that, and considering that the bombers were in fact American, I almost puked.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
the USA chant IS aggressive, we have a patriotism that rivals the Third Reich. We teach our children to salute the flag and swear blind fealty every morning
the USA chant IS aggressive, we have a patriotism that rivals the Third Reich. We teach our children to salute the flag and swear blind fealty every morning
the USA chant IS aggressive, we have a patriotism that rivals the Third Reich. We teach our children to salute the flag and swear blind fealty every morning
Was going to say same thing. Pledge of allegiance. Let's add fighter jets at beginning of major sporting events. Was at janes addiction show when Osama was killed. Fairly liberal crowd egged on by band to do the ole USA chant. We are brainwashed in this country no doubt.
Very politically outspoken left-wing band = left-leaning fan base. Makes sense (and btw, I disagree that the fan base is centrist. I think it's quite clearly left-leaning if we're talking averages). I often wonder about right-wingers who are 10C members... doesn't make too much sense to me. Why would someone be a massive fan of a band when their very clear message - including that which is within their music in so many cases - go against what they believe in? :-/ I would NEVER be a big fan of a band that was very politically driven and outspoken and right wing. As someone who is left wing, why would I?? That wouldn't make any sense.
Some folks aren't scared of other people's ideas and can show respect for those they disagree with. I would think that would be what a "liberal" would think too but doesn't seem to work that way.
What do you mean, "scared of other people's ideas"? And "show respect for those they disagree with"?? I am neither scared nor disrespectful. I didn't say I run screaming from bands that play music that expresses right-wing views or spit on them. But I'm not about to be spending my time as a fan of musicians who write songs about the right to bear arms, anti-abortionists, the majesty of capitalism and non-regulation, and war for oil, just for example, right??? I wouldn't. It would make me a hypocrite and kind of a weirdo.
Liberals support abortion, which is by definition the killing of a fetus. Conservatives find that a little weird too. Each side has their issues they have to live with.
As a conservative I am pro-life, pro-guns (with certain requirements to own) and pro-capitalism (self-determination). As a conservative (and a human), I can understand why Pearl Jam takes an opposite stance on all three of those items, and I know they are not taking those positions out of some selfish motive, but have sincere reasons. I can respect their differing opinions and enjoy their music and don't think of them as bad people. That is not weird or hypocritical. It is called being open minded and not closing yourself off to listen to only people that agree with your worldview. My opinions have changed because of listening to Pearl Jam, reading posts by liberals on this board, etc.... I guess to be normal I should have listened to only Ted Nugent.
honestly, my take away from that is that I guess you must take the issues less seriously than me. Either that, or yeah, you're a weirdo, because being a fan of someone who has spoken VERY strongly for the right to what you consider to be the murder of babies does not seem normal at all.
No, i'm not about to be a fan of a band who preaches stripping me of my rights as a woman or that guns shohldn't be regulated or that war for oil is okay or that it's anything other than inhumane to allow people tondie just because they can't afford healthcare, or that gays don't deserve equality. Fuck that. Those ideals make me angry and are completely offensive to me, and are things that i think lend to a barbaric mindset in society. So i'm not about to feel bad about not wanting to support any artist that pushes such ideas through their art. I think that would be nuts. I'm no apologist. I see no benefit in allowing myself to be understanding about those issues. Why should i accept things that i find offensive and harmful in the name of being "openminded"? For me, those are things to fight against (and they are for Pearl Jam too!). But for the record, i am generally an openminded person.... but not about issues like that. I do take time to understand and hear the opposing viewpoints, but more because i want to understand better what i'm so strongly against, not because i am willing to consider thataybe they're okay viewpoints. Nothingnwrong with standing strong for what you believe in!
But honestly, this is really hypothetical. I haven't even been exposed to any bands that support shit like that - lucky for me, most artists are in fact liberal.
So true. In fact, isn't it true that most creative people tend to be more liberal- musicians, artists, actors? Maybe even writers although, damn, there a
the USA chant IS aggressive, we have a patriotism that rivals the Third Reich. We teach our children to salute the flag and swear blind fealty every morning
Oh, totally. I hate that fucking chant. Every time I hear it my skin crawls. The Third Reich analogy comes to my mind as well!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I just want it known I participated. Rightly or wrongly. I was engaged in it. At least partially. Next election I would put a yard sign in that says . Vote. dont care who , dont care why. Just vote. be an active participant.
sorry, but voting in november is not participating. Choosing between two candidate with which you disagree does nothing to dismantle the status quo. Each time there is a true people's movement (labor struggles and socialism in early 1900's, counter-culture and war protest in the later half) it is destroyed when the power of the people as a whole is siphoned into electoral politics. You can't fight fire with fire and you can't change electoral politics at the polls. Living the change you wish for is the only vote that makes a difference.
well for starters lets get more people to the polls to begin with hmm? we'll address the other art of your assumption about me later. http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html
no need! I wasn't assuming anything about you personally, only making a general point. The point stands though. If every eligible voter turns out and casts a ballot for either Mitt "Moneybags" Romney or Barack "DroneWar" Obama we are stuck right where we are now. It goes the same down to the state elections and the system eats "good" candidates up. Ron Pauls are routinely brought to the dark side or pushed to the outside, otherwise Congress would be full of these types. Nothing short of revolution can save us and I can't support revolution as it is always just a bloody, murderous game of musical despots. If the general citizenry was as smart and capable as the average 10clubber maybe we would have a chance at a better world.... Unfortunately the general citizenry is as smart and capable as...I dunno...Good Charlotte
I just want it known I participated. Rightly or wrongly. I was engaged in it. At least partially. Next election I would put a yard sign in that says . Vote. dont care who , dont care why. Just vote. be an active participant.
What's the point? By voting, you're just giving your consent to the current state of affairs. You're not 'contributing' to anything other than declaring your acceptance of one of two sides of the same coin - one of two shades of shit. It's a completely meaningless charade, and has nothing to do with active participation. Placing a tick in a box on a piece of paper once every four years, and declaring your choice between two different representatives of big business - whose job is to serve the interests of the wealthy elites, and who couldn't give a fuck about the needs of the people - does not constitute 'active participation'.
I just want it known I participated. Rightly or wrongly. I was engaged in it. At least partially. Next election I would put a yard sign in that says . Vote. dont care who , dont care why. Just vote. be an active participant.
What's the point? By voting, you're just giving your consent to the current state of affairs. You're not 'contributing' to anything other than declaring your acceptance of one of two sides of the same coin - one of two shades of shit. It's a completely meaningless charade, and has nothing to do with active participation. Placing a tick in a box on a piece of paper once every four years, and declaring your choice between two different representatives of big business - whose job is to serve the interests of the wealthy elites, and who couldn't give a fuck about the needs of the people - does not constitute 'active participation'.
We could have McCain and Palin running things. Good people voted.
I just want it known I participated. Rightly or wrongly. I was engaged in it. At least partially. Next election I would put a yard sign in that says . Vote. dont care who , dont care why. Just vote. be an active participant.
What's the point? By voting, you're just giving your consent to the current state of affairs. You're not 'contributing' to anything other than declaring your acceptance of one of two sides of the same coin - one of two shades of shit. It's a completely meaningless charade, and has nothing to do with active participation. Placing a tick in a box on a piece of paper once every four years, and declaring your choice between two different representatives of big business - whose job is to serve the interests of the wealthy elites, and who couldn't give a fuck about the needs of the people - does not constitute 'active participation'.
We could have McCain and Palin running things. Good people voted.
they are different features of the same machine. Of course nobody wants to see Palin in power, and Mitt was trying to start war with Iran from the damn campaign stump, but they serve the same masters. Bush voted bailout and so did Obama. Now Eric Holder tells the banks "you are too big to face any consequences for your actions, go gamble and launder money for terrorists, and while youre at it, hold our entire economy hostage." paraphrased of course. The point stands, voting is a spectacle.
more embarrassing and worse, yes, but still the same system. The president isn't the only election, and as a whole we can't defeat the election system by voting for candidates selected by the system.
Personally, even the "American" label is a turn off, because I don't like the stigmas and stereotypes that go with it.
I only like the label "human being" because that's what I am.
People need to realize that the government want us to label ourselves according to the 2 party system, therefore we're kept under control. Think outside that box and you're suddenly out of everyone's control and under only your own.
... I agree... the 'American' label has been tainted, of late. The'U-S-A!!!' chant has also taken a hit because of its overuse as a war cry. At a Hockey game in the Olympics... okay. As a cheer to send off someone else's kid to protect U.S. corporate interests... no. I just think that if we are going to label ourselves... we need to put those political labels where they belong... in the trash.
As someone not American, I must admit, that "U-S-A!!" chant is very off-putting. It has a very aggressive vibe. I personally know and like Americans enough to know that most don't intend it that way, but I don't think the same can be said for most non-Americans. Most of them cringe at that, because, just as you say, it seems like a war cry.... at the Olympics and shit. lol
really ... the worst part of that chant is that it is generally now used in the most moronic of situations like if a an american team is playing a canadian team ... like serious facepalms ...
Comments
You just kind of ran out on the tracks and put a log across it, hoping for a derailment, but I don't think it's going to work.
Godfather.
Godfather.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Wind this thing up.
As a conservative I am pro-life, pro-guns (with certain requirements to own) and pro-capitalism (self-determination). As a conservative (and a human), I can understand why Pearl Jam takes an opposite stance on all three of those items, and I know they are not taking those positions out of some selfish motive, but have sincere reasons. I can respect their differing opinions and enjoy their music and don't think of them as bad people. That is not weird or hypocritical. It is called being open minded and not closing yourself off to listen to only people that agree with your worldview. My opinions have changed because of listening to Pearl Jam, reading posts by liberals on this board, etc.... I guess to be normal I should have listened to only Ted Nugent.
sorry, but voting in november is not participating. Choosing between two candidate with which you disagree does nothing to dismantle the status quo. Each time there is a true people's movement (labor struggles and socialism in early 1900's, counter-culture and war protest in the later half) it is destroyed when the power of the people as a whole is siphoned into electoral politics. You can't fight fire with fire and you can't change electoral politics at the polls. Living the change you wish for is the only vote that makes a difference.
In my personal opinion... I think we get all muddled up, yet closely attached to our political labels... Liberals, Conservatives, Right Wing, Left Wing, Republican, Democrat, Red State, Blue State. Aren't we ALL individuals? Don't we ALL form and define who we are? Why do we need someone to stick a label on us in order to define ourselves?
...
From my view, I think it is all bullshit because guess who came up with all of these bullshit labels? Bullshit spewing politicians and their media minions in order for us to pick a team... like the way we pick our football or baseball teams. They understand that the American masses are almost completely illiterate in the field of political science. But, boy... do we understand sports. We are sports experts, right?
We pick our team... On the Right side of the field is The Conservative Republicans in their Red uniforms and their elephant mascot versus the Liberal Democrats in their Blue jerseys and their mule mascot on the Left side of the field. The object of the game.. like in any other game... to destroy the opposing team and WIN!!!
They have turned politics into sports, not to educate us in politics... they did it because they know it is a way they can control us... by dividing us into opposing teams that are much easier to control. And like fucking morons... we eat that shit up.
...
That is HOW we got so divided. That is why nothing ever gets done. The politicians don't care because they know we are idiots. We continually say, 'Toss them all out!'... but, the politicians know us well... we want to toss everyone else's guy out.. but, we want to KEEP our guy. That is WHY our guy gets re-elected and keeps us divided. Because we are really... politically... we are morons. We vote for the name we've heard before or because there is an (R) or a (D) next to their name... that's how we define the 'good guys'. If anyone is to blame.. it is us. We have the POWER to vote them all out... but, we lack the courage to break ranks and do it. Politicians aren't stupid... they are lawyers and millionaires. They aren't stupid... but, they know we are stupid. And they know we know our sports.
....
We need to tell them to do their job. We need to fire them and quit worrying about 'our team' controlling the Senate and the House. And I don't want to hear any of that bullshit about Rand Paul not being like them and deserving another term... it's pure Bullshit! He is seated in the Congress right now. He is one of them. Sorry, he has to go, too... no matter how much you like him. That whole bullshit empty threat about throwing them all out (except my guy) has to end. I hope that some day, we all have the courage to throw off our convienient labels and speak for ourselves. The only label you should keep is American.
Hail, Hail!!!
Not that I have it in for all Republicans. Some of them are very fine people. My first wife, for example.
I just think it is silly when people act like they are some sort of authority on what the model Republican (or the model Christian or the model Pearl Jam fan) should be.
Saying stuff like, 'Oh, he's not a REAL Republican'... (or 'She's not a REAL Christian' or 'They aren't REAL Pearl Jam Fans') implies that the person saying those things IS the real Republican (or Christian or Pearl Jam Fan).
It really just makes them look like self serving dolts.
Hail, Hail!!!
No, i'm not about to be a fan of a band who preaches stripping me of my rights as a woman or that guns shohldn't be regulated or that war for oil is okay or that it's anything other than inhumane to allow people tondie just because they can't afford healthcare, or that gays don't deserve equality. Fuck that. Those ideals make me angry and are completely offensive to me, and are things that i think lend to a barbaric mindset in society. So i'm not about to feel bad about not wanting to support any artist that pushes such ideas through their art. I think that would be nuts. I'm no apologist. I see no benefit in allowing myself to be understanding about those issues. Why should i accept things that i find offensive and harmful in the name of being "openminded"? For me, those are things to fight against (and they are for Pearl Jam too!). But for the record, i am generally an openminded person.... but not about issues like that. I do take time to understand and hear the opposing viewpoints, but more because i want to understand better what i'm so strongly against, not because i am willing to consider thataybe they're okay viewpoints. Nothingnwrong with standing strong for what you believe in!
But honestly, this is really hypothetical. I haven't even been exposed to any bands that support shit like that - lucky for me, most artists are in fact liberal.
I only like the label "human being" because that's what I am.
People need to realize that the government want us to label ourselves according to the 2 party system, therefore we're kept under control. Think outside that box and you're suddenly out of everyone's control and under only your own.
http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I agree... the 'American' label has been tainted, of late. The'U-S-A!!!' chant has also taken a hit because of its overuse as a war cry. At a Hockey game in the Olympics... okay. As a cheer to send off someone else's kid to protect U.S. corporate interests... no.
I just think that if we are going to label ourselves... we need to put those political labels where they belong... in the trash.
Hail, Hail!!!
I agree. It used to be okay because it was rarely brought out, other than after Olympic wins.
Now, it is usually heard by moronic crowds, celebrating war and destruction. Or at political rallies to make it seem like anyone that is not in their camp is somehow... less of an American.
Let's put it to rest... along with the human wave at stadiums.
Hail, Hail!!!
no need! I wasn't assuming anything about you personally, only making a general point. The point stands though.
If every eligible voter turns out and casts a ballot for either Mitt "Moneybags" Romney or Barack "DroneWar" Obama we are stuck right where we are now. It goes the same down to the state elections and the system eats "good" candidates up. Ron Pauls are routinely brought to the dark side or pushed to the outside, otherwise Congress would be full of these types. Nothing short of revolution can save us and I can't support revolution as it is always just a bloody, murderous game of musical despots. If the general citizenry was as smart and capable as the average 10clubber maybe we would have a chance at a better world....
Unfortunately the general citizenry is as smart and capable as...I dunno...Good Charlotte
they are different features of the same machine. Of course nobody wants to see Palin in power, and Mitt was trying to start war with Iran from the damn campaign stump, but they serve the same masters. Bush voted bailout and so did Obama. Now Eric Holder tells the banks "you are too big to face any consequences for your actions, go gamble and launder money for terrorists, and while youre at it, hold our entire economy hostage." paraphrased of course. The point stands, voting is a spectacle.