Flu shots

oftenreading

JC29856 said:

Prejudiced and sensationalized reporting by the department of justice

http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/government-pays-damages-to-vaccine-victims-flu-shot-most-dangerous-with-gbs-and-death-settlements/

The June 2014 report from the Department of Justice on damages paid by the U.S. Government to vaccine victims was recently published on the U.S. Department of Health and Human Resources website. There were 120 cases of vaccine injuries decided. 78 cases received compensation, while 42 cases were denied.

Most of the U.S. public is unaware that a U.S. citizen, by law, cannot sue a pharmaceutical company for damages resulting from vaccines. Congress gave them total legal immunity in 1986, and that law was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2011. There is a special “vaccine court” called the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program that is funded through a tax on vaccines. If you are injured or killed by a vaccine, you must hire an attorney and fight tax-funded government attorneys to seek damages, as you cannot sue the drug manufacturers. As you can see from the report below, it takes years to reach a settlement, with the longest case below being settled after 11 years. Therefore, this report probably only represents a tiny fraction of the actual number of people harmed or killed by vaccines, since it is so difficult to fight the government in court to win a settlement.

As in previous reports, the June 15, 2014, report covering a 3-month period shows that the flu vaccine is the most dangerous vaccine in America. 78 cases were awarded settlements for vaccine injuries, with 55 of the settlements being for the flu shot, including one death. Most of the settlements for injuries due to the flu shot were for Guillain-Barré Syndrome. Other flu vaccine injuries included: Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy, Rheumatoid arthritis, Shingles, Brachial plexus neuropathy, Bell’s Palsy, Brachial neuritis, Transverse myelitis, Lichenoid drug eruption, and Narcolepsy.

JC, I'm not disagreeing that there are some rare side effects, as my post said, and that everyone needs to decide what risk of these they tolerate, versus the risk of getting the flu and dying from it. There are still far more influenza deaths yearly than serious side effects from the immunization.

"The increased risk was approximately 1 additional case of GBS per 100,000 people who got the swine flu vaccine" - this is the rate from 1976, when the rate of GBS from immunization was at it highest. Rates of GBS from immunization since then are lower than this. The death rate from influenza is much higher than this. Also, I think you already know that that wasn't the sort of publication I was calling sensationalistic.

PJ_Soul

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

dignin

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

hedonist

I feel vaccine-shamed!

Is justification for either decision necessary? And if so, to whose end?

Does "greater good" trump choice?

If so, the ripple-effects could fuck us.

PJ_Soul

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

i_lov_it

When I was just recently in Seattle one of the days I had a bit of a sore throat and a bit sniffly nothing too serious...so I went into the Chemist to get some cough syrup and was asked by the Chemist if I wanted to get a flu shot...No sorry I'm an Australian lol

Last-12-Exit

i_lov_it said:

When I was just recently in Seattle one of the days I had a bit of a sore throat and a bit sniffly nothing too serious...so I went into the Chemist to get some cough syrup and was asked by the Chemist if I wanted to get a flu shot...No sorry I'm an Australian lol

To the chemist? Was his name Walter White?

i_lov_it

Last-12-Exit said:

i_lov_it said:

When I was just recently in Seattle one of the days I had a bit of a sore throat and a bit sniffly nothing too serious...so I went into the Chemist to get some cough syrup and was asked by the Chemist if I wanted to get a flu shot...No sorry I'm an Australian lol

To the chemist? Was his name Walter White?

I'm not to familiar with Walter White...but it was at a Walgreens.

JC29856

Last-12-Exit said:

i_lov_it said:

When I was just recently in Seattle one of the days I had a bit of a sore throat and a bit sniffly nothing too serious...so I went into the Chemist to get some cough syrup and was asked by the Chemist if I wanted to get a flu shot...No sorry I'm an Australian lol

To the chemist? Was his name Walter White?

I'm pretty sure that he didn't give you permission to mock what he said.

oceaninmyeyes

Dec 31 will be the one year anniversary of my brother-in-law's hospitalization with the flu. He died about 3 weeks later.

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

The fear for me didn't come from the pharmaceutical companies. It came from having a little bit of asthma and then getting the flu and having to use a nebulizer. It also came from the death of my otherwise vital brother-in-law not quite one year ago. It even convinced my cynical husband who avoids vaccines like the plague after his stint in the army. He went in January last year and as soon as it was available this fall.

dignin

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

So you are implying a conspiracy between government, health care professionals and scientists for profit. Got it.

Can you provide any evidence of this scaremongering....or is this just how you feel?

riotgrl

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

So you are implying a conspiracy between government, health care professionals and scientists for profit. Got it.

Can you provide any evidence of this scaremongering....or is this just how you feel?

Can you prove that there is not? I'll leave the health care professionals out of the equation. But are you saying that there is no conflict of interest when scientific studies are funded by pharmaceutical companies?

JC29856

riotgrl said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

So you are implying a conspiracy between government, health care professionals and scientists for profit. Got it.

Can you provide any evidence of this scaremongering....or is this just how you feel?

Can you prove that there is not? I'll leave the health care professionals out of the equation. But are you saying that there is no conflict of interest when scientific studies are funded by pharmaceutical companies?

Money has nothing to do with it!
Let's not forget that the R&D is taxpayer funded. Not only does big pharma get special treatment for lawsuits they get special treatment on patents. They sure are special!

dignin

riotgrl said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

So you are implying a conspiracy between government, health care professionals and scientists for profit. Got it.

Can you provide any evidence of this scaremongering....or is this just how you feel?

Can you prove that there is not? I'll leave the health care professionals out of the equation. But are you saying that there is no conflict of interest when scientific studies are funded by pharmaceutical companies?

The burden of proof is on the people saying there is a conspiracy, not on me. I could say there is a little blue man in the sky watching over us right now and you would say I'm full of shit but I could retort back "prove he isn't". Pretty weak argument.

Also, I'm sorry but you can't leave the health care professionals out of it because they would have to be in on it too.

If you have any evidence of scientists making up data for the sale of vaccines I'm all ears. I think most people here don't really understand the scientific process works.

dignin

Where I'm from most scientific funding comes from government and any scientific data published worth its salt is peer reviewed. Hard to make that shit up.

riotgrl

dignin said:

riotgrl said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

So you are implying a conspiracy between government, health care professionals and scientists for profit. Got it.

Can you provide any evidence of this scaremongering....or is this just how you feel?

Can you prove that there is not? I'll leave the health care professionals out of the equation. But are you saying that there is no conflict of interest when scientific studies are funded by pharmaceutical companies?

The burden of proof is on the people saying there is a conspiracy, not on me. I could say there is a little blue man in the sky watching over us right now and you would say I'm full of shit but I could retort back "prove he isn't". Pretty weak argument.

Also, I'm sorry but you can't leave the health care professionals out of it because they would have to be in on it too.

If you have any evidence of scientists making up data for the sale of vaccines I'm all ears. I think most people here don't really understand the scientific process works.

And do they have all the information? Basic scientific method says that any scientist should be able to replicate results. And yet there is evidence that data has been withheld therefore results have been skewed. And there has been evidence of scientists overestimating results but the pharmaceuticals and the government have withheld some of that information. Can you prove that scientists haven't faked data? Pretty weak argument on your part to throw it back when you can't prove it and there is evidence that scientists haven't released all their findings. I thought science was transparent and all about proof?

I could care less what you believe and I'm not going to do your research for you. You want to get the flu shot and every little vaccine that comes along, great, go for it. But quit bullying everyone else and let people make their own informed choices.

dignin

riotgrl said:

dignin said:

riotgrl said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

So you are implying a conspiracy between government, health care professionals and scientists for profit. Got it.

Can you provide any evidence of this scaremongering....or is this just how you feel?

Can you prove that there is not? I'll leave the health care professionals out of the equation. But are you saying that there is no conflict of interest when scientific studies are funded by pharmaceutical companies?

The burden of proof is on the people saying there is a conspiracy, not on me. I could say there is a little blue man in the sky watching over us right now and you would say I'm full of shit but I could retort back "prove he isn't". Pretty weak argument.

Also, I'm sorry but you can't leave the health care professionals out of it because they would have to be in on it too.

If you have any evidence of scientists making up data for the sale of vaccines I'm all ears. I think most people here don't really understand the scientific process works.

And do they have all the information? Basic scientific method says that any scientist should be able to replicate results. And yet there is evidence that data has been withheld therefore results have been skewed. And there has been evidence of scientists overestimating results but the pharmaceuticals and the government have withheld some of that information. Can you prove that scientists haven't faked data? Pretty weak argument on your part to throw it back when you can't prove it and there is evidence that scientists haven't released all their findings. I thought science was transparent and all about proof?

I could care less what you believe and I'm not going to do your research for you. You want to get the flu shot and every little vaccine that comes along, great, go for it. But quit bullying everyone else and let people make their own informed choices.

Are you kidding me? Who am I bullying? If you want to post an opinion all I ask is that you can try and back that opinion up.....with anything......which apparently you can't. That's how this works. If you make claims like scientists are overestimating results in regards to vaccines it's not my job to find out what nonsense you are talking about.

By the way this is not about you. I initially started getting the vaccine because of elderly people in my life who would be more at risk without me getting it. My mother has Lupus and is immunocompromised. I get the vaccine on the advice of my doctor and hers. They must all be in on the conspiracy too.

Silly.

backseatLover12

Ah, this round about debate seems so familiar… like we had it just last year. I've said my point so I feel no reason to keep stating it. However, I really dig the following opinion. Because the point of the vaccine is not about ME. It's about those around us that have lower immune systems. The minute we get off our high horse that it is about me and only me, and the minute we start caring about those around us who aren't as healthy as we are, the sooner we make progress.

dignin said:

By the way this is not about you. I initially started getting the vaccine because of elderly people in my life who would be more at risk without me getting it. My mother has Lupus and is immunocompromised. I get the vaccine on the advice of my doctor and hers. They must all be in on the conspiracy too.

Silly.

PJ_Soul

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

So you are implying a conspiracy between government, health care professionals and scientists for profit. Got it.

Can you provide any evidence of this scaremongering....or is this just how you feel?

I am just going off of the realities I see. Now there are actually TV ads pumping the flu shot telling us that absolutely everyone should get them, not just the higher risk groups, like those with respiratory or immunodeficiency issues (I am SO sorry about your brother oceaninmyeyes), seniors, children, those who work with children, pregnant women, and healthcare workers. Meanwhile, there is a severe shortage of the very vaccine that these ads are telling us to go and get ASAP, so people go the pharmacy for their shot and find that they don't have any, day after day - most of them in fact can't give more than 20 vaccines a day because of supply. I read this as pharmeceutical companies creating a shortage in order to pump up demand. This really doesn't land in the conspiracy theory category. Have the big pharm companies ever given you any reason to trust them or assume they have anything other than profit in mind??? I doubt it.

dignin

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I've never had a flu shot in my life and I'm still alive to talk about it.

And what's your point? You do realize that there are a lot of immunocompromised people out there and a lot of us with strong immune systems get the vaccine to help protect those people.

Well i think my point is pretty obvious.

There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on these days, fueled by the pharmaceutical companies who are raking in the cash from flu vaccines.
I haven't even had the flu since 1998 or so. I don't feel like it's necessary for people who aren't in the higher risk groups to get flu shots. I feel like they are trying to convince people that it is because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And they are doing a fine job - it's totally working!

So you are implying a conspiracy between government, health care professionals and scientists for profit. Got it.

Can you provide any evidence of this scaremongering....or is this just how you feel?

I am just going off of the realities I see. Now there are actually TV ads pumping the flu shot telling us that absolutely everyone should get them, not just the higher risk groups, like those with respiratory or immunodeficiency issues (I am SO sorry about your brother oceaninmyeyes), seniors, children, those who work with children, pregnant women, and healthcare workers. Meanwhile, there is a severe shortage of the very vaccine that these ads are telling us to go and get ASAP, so people go the pharmacy for their shot and find that they don't have any, day after day - most of them in fact can't give more than 20 vaccines a day because of supply. I read this as pharmeceutical companies creating a shortage in order to pump up demand. This really doesn't land in the conspiracy theory category. Have the big pharm companies ever given you any reason to trust them or assume they have anything other than profit in mind??? I doubt it.

I know you're from BC so I wonder if this is more of a BC government problem with the shortage? I know here in Alberta where the vaccine is free (other than my tax dollars) the government orders x number of vaccines per season depending on what they think the need will be, the only reason for a shortage here would be if they got the demand wrong. As far as I know it's not supply demand issue on pharmas end.

I think healthy scepticism is great. I don't trust big pharma and I understand it's in their interest to push the vaccine for profit but I also don't think that's reason enough to believe we are being lied to. There are far to many players involved to pull it off ....government, scientists (my wife being one of them) and the health care system. I really do think our government provides this vaccine for us because it's in the best interest of everyone.