Why is it that this fact is so difficult to accept for some? It affects the rest of us. And believe it or not, the flu shot, as controversial as it may be, impacts the rest of the population as well. It's not about conspiracy, it's not about control, it's not about me and me only. it's about public health and keeping the rest of the public healthy.
explain to me how if I don't get the flu shot - you are at risk as someone who did take it?
I wonder how many would actually get sick with the flu if there was no flu shot at all.
Why is it that this fact is so difficult to accept for some? It affects the rest of us. And believe it or not, the flu shot, as controversial as it may be, impacts the rest of the population as well. It's not about conspiracy, it's not about control, it's not about me and me only. it's about public health and keeping the rest of the public healthy.
explain to me how if I don't get the flu shot - you are at risk as someone who did take it?
I wonder how many would actually get sick with the flu if there was no flu shot at all.
you didn't really answer my question
a number of people will die from influenza every year - it is hard to say as right now, they lump everyone and anyone that shows similar symptoms as dying from the flu ... many people were categorized as dying from the flu when in fact it was not ...
I've taken the flu shot before but only because I had to take it.
Generally I don't get sick too often, I eat well and take good care of my body (and mind), well for the most part. Its the best defense.
If someone has the flu, just keep yourself away from others the best you can. When I've had the flu I keep myself isolated and let the virus(?) run its course. All the while pumping my body with natural kinda things which has/does work for me.
A healthy body will (should) be able to fight it off better, obviously.
of course even if you eat the best of foods you can still get sick/flu, but ones body should (will) be in a better position to fight it off.
I can't really comment on the flu shot cause I simply dont (yet) know enough information about it.
"I HAVE chronic lymphocytic leukemia. Three months ago, I underwent an allogeneic stem-cell transplant, in which my wise, 52-year-old white blood cells were replaced by bewildered, low-functioning cells from an anonymous European donor. For the next seven months or so, until those cells mature, I have a newborn’s immunity; I am prey to illnesses like chickenpox, the measles and the flu.
These diseases are rarely fatal, unless you’re a newborn or someone with a suppressed immune system like me. My newborn buddies and I do have some protection, however: the rest of you.
Young babies, the immuno-compromised and people who get chemotherapy are not able to process most vaccinations. Live vaccines in particular, like those for measles and chickenpox, can make us sick. But if 75 percent to 95 percent of the population around us is vaccinated for a particular disease, the rest are protected through what is called herd immunity. In other words, your measles vaccine protects me against the measles...
The truth is, we should not get vaccinated for ourselves alone; we should do it for one another. Having cancer has taught me the value of living in a community. We assist the infirm, pay our taxes and donate to charity, and getting vaccinated — for the flu, for adult whooping cough, for pneumonia — is just another important societal responsibility. After all, we’re in the same herd."
My son had the H1N1 a few years ago. Scary. My close friend is a physician and saw him at home- reassuring us that everything was going to be okay. He was correct- everything turned out well.
The kid is a very healthy and strong child, but the virus left him a pile of quivering jello. Reading through this thread I am reminded how vulnerable and exposed we all are (and how worried we were entertaining the worst).
While I tend to think it is a personal choice for all, I get the flu shot for a few of the reasons already listed. And with this said, it didn't do me any good this past weekend while I barfed my face off and lied in bed for two days: relegated to sipping water and chewing Gravol. What a horrible feeling.
My son had the H1N1 a few years ago. Scary. My close friend is a physician and saw him at home- reassuring us that everything was going to be okay. He was correct- everything turned out well.
The kid is a very healthy and strong child, but the virus left him a pile of quivering jello. Reading through this thread I am reminded how vulnerable and exposed we all are (and how worried we were entertaining the worst).
While I tend to think it is a personal choice for all, I get the flu shot for a few of the reasons already listed. And with this said, it didn't do me any good this past weekend while I barfed my face off and lied in bed for two days: relegated to sipping water and chewing Gravol. What a horrible feeling.
Nature is trying to get us.
Sorry you were sick, Thirty Bills Unpaid. Sadly that flu shot you got will not protect from what is commonly referred to as the "stomach flu". The stomach thing is a gastroenteritis, not a true influenza virus. The flu that you took the shot for is for respiratory influenza, that causes cough, fever, body aches, that turned your sweet kiddo into a "jello" and can be deadly. Hope you feel better soon.
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
My son had the H1N1 a few years ago. Scary. My close friend is a physician and saw him at home- reassuring us that everything was going to be okay. He was correct- everything turned out well.
The kid is a very healthy and strong child, but the virus left him a pile of quivering jello. Reading through this thread I am reminded how vulnerable and exposed we all are (and how worried we were entertaining the worst).
While I tend to think it is a personal choice for all, I get the flu shot for a few of the reasons already listed. And with this said, it didn't do me any good this past weekend while I barfed my face off and lied in bed for two days: relegated to sipping water and chewing Gravol. What a horrible feeling.
Nature is trying to get us.
Cool everything turned out well for your son! -
Do you know what caused your weekend adventure of barfing and sipping water? Was it flu related or something else? Maybe a little food poisoning or something?
Wow jeffbr - that story sounds hauntingly familiar. I am so glad that your friend is recovering, and yes, he does still have a hell of a hill to climb. It is so awesome that you can be there to help him through that. The tears are streaming down my face, but I am so happy for you. Best wishes to him and give him a hug for me. Will you keep us posted as to how he is doing? Please?
Thanks for the kind words. I'll post updates with what I hope is continued progress. It is strange that until a few weeks ago I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about the flu, vaccines, or public heath since I so rarely get sick, but this was a big object lesson for me. I am now hyper vigilant and probably paranoid about contagions being spread. Putting on a mask and gown every day lately to just to see my friend has made this issue very real for me.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
My son had the H1N1 a few years ago. Scary. My close friend is a physician and saw him at home- reassuring us that everything was going to be okay. He was correct- everything turned out well.
The kid is a very healthy and strong child, but the virus left him a pile of quivering jello. Reading through this thread I am reminded how vulnerable and exposed we all are (and how worried we were entertaining the worst).
While I tend to think it is a personal choice for all, I get the flu shot for a few of the reasons already listed. And with this said, it didn't do me any good this past weekend while I barfed my face off and lied in bed for two days: relegated to sipping water and chewing Gravol. What a horrible feeling.
Nature is trying to get us.
Sorry you were sick, Thirty Bills Unpaid. Sadly that flu shot you got will not protect from what is commonly referred to as the "stomach flu". The stomach thing is a gastroenteritis, not a true influenza virus. The flu that you took the shot for is for respiratory influenza, that causes cough, fever, body aches, that turned your sweet kiddo into a "jello" and can be deadly. Hope you feel better soon.
I'm feeling much better- although not 100%. But I'm not bitching- I'll take today over the last couple without hesitation! Thanks for the well wishes.
My son had the H1N1 a few years ago. Scary. My close friend is a physician and saw him at home- reassuring us that everything was going to be okay. He was correct- everything turned out well.
The kid is a very healthy and strong child, but the virus left him a pile of quivering jello. Reading through this thread I am reminded how vulnerable and exposed we all are (and how worried we were entertaining the worst).
While I tend to think it is a personal choice for all, I get the flu shot for a few of the reasons already listed. And with this said, it didn't do me any good this past weekend while I barfed my face off and lied in bed for two days: relegated to sipping water and chewing Gravol. What a horrible feeling.
Nature is trying to get us.
Cool everything turned out well for your son! -
Do you know what caused your weekend adventure of barfing and sipping water? Was it flu related or something else? Maybe a little food poisoning or something?
The whole story comes out: my daughter woke up in the middle of the night puking. Later, in the afternoon, it was my turn. What happened in my house has been happening in many houses- it's not food poisoning.
On that note... I've had food poisoning twice: not fun.
Wow jeffbr - that story sounds hauntingly familiar. I am so glad that your friend is recovering, and yes, he does still have a hell of a hill to climb. It is so awesome that you can be there to help him through that. The tears are streaming down my face, but I am so happy for you. Best wishes to him and give him a hug for me. Will you keep us posted as to how he is doing? Please?
Thanks for the kind words. I'll post updates with what I hope is continued progress. It is strange that until a few weeks ago I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about the flu, vaccines, or public heath since I so rarely get sick, but this was a big object lesson for me. I am now hyper vigilant and probably paranoid about contagions being spread. Putting on a mask and gown every day lately to just to see my friend has made this issue very real for me.
Best wishes for your friend, jeffbr. People looking out for each other is crucial. You're a good friend.
Why is it that this fact is so difficult to accept for some? It affects the rest of us. And believe it or not, the flu shot, as controversial as it may be, impacts the rest of the population as well. It's not about conspiracy, it's not about control, it's not about me and me only. it's about public health and keeping the rest of the public healthy.
explain to me how if I don't get the flu shot - you are at risk as someone who did take it?
I wonder how many would actually get sick with the flu if there was no flu shot at all.
you didn't really answer my question
a number of people will die from influenza every year - it is hard to say as right now, they lump everyone and anyone that shows similar symptoms as dying from the flu ... many people were categorized as dying from the flu when in fact it was not ...
Your question - explain to me how if I don't get the flu shot - you are at risk as someone who did take it? - is sort of, cornfusing...
If you're pointing the finger at me for the "bully" behavior you're talking about? You've got to be kidding me (aside of me saying that you should be ashamed, I apologize for that).
I have explored alternative meds and currently have a level 2 reiki certification that I can use on patients. I get acupuncture for chronic pain in my legs. After continuing to write you, Riotgirl, about your plan on what you'd do to protect your students, rather than just yourself, you have continued to deflect the questions. I have already said that whatever one feels is right for them, is fine, unless you work with the public.
And I felt like I was providing you with the steps I was taking to keep my students from getting ill but it felt like since my steps didn't coincide with what you (and others) felt like I should be doing then I was selfish and irresponsible. No one really ever addressed any of my points made, such as the gut biome, and how this affects your immune system. What responsibility do you bear when you get the flu shot and it fails? My friend is a NICU nurse and feels the exact same way you do about all vaccines and public safety. However, all 5 members of her family contracted the flu in December and she knew her husband most likely had the flu and sent her kids to play with mine. She assumed that they were all protected because they had the flu shot. What will you do if your vaccine doesn't work? Will you wear a mask just in case you DO get sick? Don't we all make the best choices we can with the information available? I'm glad you have investigated alternative medicine and feel comfortable utilizing it in your practice and for yourself.(and the others that have mentioned it as well). I do not feel comfortable with the rather one sided studies that have been conducted on vaccine safety and effectiveness. That info-graphic above? It presents only a portion of the reason for the rise in these diseases and makes it seem like the only possible explanation is the anti-vaxxers. It is a complicated topic and science isn't infallible.
My apologies (and thank you for your apology, I appreciate it) if the bully comment was out of line but I felt bullied by you and several others who made it clear that the only way to protect everyone is through mass vaccination regardless of issues that arise about their safety and effectiveness. All I want is the ability to question safety and effectiveness and in the current climate that is not possible - why is that?
I've said what my responsibility is when I get sick, whether it's the flu or not. STAY HOME. Wash my hands constantly and sanitize the house. Like anyone should do when they're sick. It's too bad your friend thinks that getting the flu shot means that air-born germs mean nothing, that simply sounds absurd and I won't let my daughter play at others' house when she's around sick germs, nor do I let kids come to my house if they have sick germs. I had one friend over on Christmas night who coughed all over a birthday cake. I wrapped the rest up and sent it home with him. Just because we tend to be around idiots gives us no excuse to generalize the rest of us.
If I had to wear a mask? Yes, I would. But would you? Being around students every day? You still haven't answered that one. I still get the overall feeling from everyone's posts here is that we're either thinking of OURSELVES ONLY and the CPC and FDA controlling our lives, and then there's those of us who care about immunizing, either because a loved one suffered, or because we are looking out for our patients. Why does it have to be an either or situation? It is certainly NOT black and white. Measles, Mumps and Whopping Cough, FACTUALLY, have resurfaced with the choice of not immunizing children. That's a fact. The Flu shot isn't perfect, of course, but does have advantages. When it's only our family that's affected I suppose.
BTW, I don't subscribe to the victim mentality for anything. It's fine to question, I'm all for questioning everything out there. But when it's my line of work dealing with patients, the public, students... I stop considering myself to be the one reason for my actions. It's in taking care of others, and weighing that importance along side and equal to us as individuals. Can you get that? Will you wear a mask for the sake of the students? And yourself? If it came down to it?
I wash my hands many, many times throughout the day (and I sanitize my classroom on a regular basis as well, since custodians only empty the trash). I also stay at home when I am sick because I believe in protecting myself and others that I am in contact with on a regular basis. If I needed to wear a mask to protect others, then yes, absolutely I would do that.
FACTUALLY speaking, the only reasons studied for recent outbreaks are directly attributed to non-vaxxers. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that when effectiveness of any vaccine comes up then all fingers point to non vaccination as the only possible cause? If you are vaccinated then shouldn't you be protected from whooping cough, measles, mumps, etc? Why the sudden outbreaks? Over 80% of the whooping cough cases in CA were of vaccinated children. Clearly, the effectiveness of said vaccine is in question. But when safety and effectiveness is brought up, even by scientists and MD's, then it is quickly dismissed and no further studies are conducted. When scientists do question these very things with their own research, many of them are dismissed by pharmaceuticals and the medical establishment as quacks. Shouldn't the REAL response be to conduct double blind studies to ascertain that the vaccines are working the way they are supposed to? Isn't THAT just as much the responsibility of everyone involved?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
If you're pointing the finger at me for the "bully" behavior you're talking about? You've got to be kidding me (aside of me saying that you should be ashamed, I apologize for that).
I have explored alternative meds and currently have a level 2 reiki certification that I can use on patients. I get acupuncture for chronic pain in my legs. After continuing to write you, Riotgirl, about your plan on what you'd do to protect your students, rather than just yourself, you have continued to deflect the questions. I have already said that whatever one feels is right for them, is fine, unless you work with the public.
And I felt like I was providing you with the steps I was taking to keep my students from getting ill but it felt like since my steps didn't coincide with what you (and others) felt like I should be doing then I was selfish and irresponsible. No one really ever addressed any of my points made, such as the gut biome, and how this affects your immune system. What responsibility do you bear when you get the flu shot and it fails? My friend is a NICU nurse and feels the exact same way you do about all vaccines and public safety. However, all 5 members of her family contracted the flu in December and she knew her husband most likely had the flu and sent her kids to play with mine. She assumed that they were all protected because they had the flu shot. What will you do if your vaccine doesn't work? Will you wear a mask just in case you DO get sick? Don't we all make the best choices we can with the information available? I'm glad you have investigated alternative medicine and feel comfortable utilizing it in your practice and for yourself.(and the others that have mentioned it as well). I do not feel comfortable with the rather one sided studies that have been conducted on vaccine safety and effectiveness. That info-graphic above? It presents only a portion of the reason for the rise in these diseases and makes it seem like the only possible explanation is the anti-vaxxers. It is a complicated topic and science isn't infallible.
My apologies (and thank you for your apology, I appreciate it) if the bully comment was out of line but I felt bullied by you and several others who made it clear that the only way to protect everyone is through mass vaccination regardless of issues that arise about their safety and effectiveness. All I want is the ability to question safety and effectiveness and in the current climate that is not possible - why is that?
I've said what my responsibility is when I get sick, whether it's the flu or not. STAY HOME. Wash my hands constantly and sanitize the house. Like anyone should do when they're sick. It's too bad your friend thinks that getting the flu shot means that air-born germs mean nothing, that simply sounds absurd and I won't let my daughter play at others' house when she's around sick germs, nor do I let kids come to my house if they have sick germs. I had one friend over on Christmas night who coughed all over a birthday cake. I wrapped the rest up and sent it home with him. Just because we tend to be around idiots gives us no excuse to generalize the rest of us.
If I had to wear a mask? Yes, I would. But would you? Being around students every day? You still haven't answered that one. I still get the overall feeling from everyone's posts here is that we're either thinking of OURSELVES ONLY and the CPC and FDA controlling our lives, and then there's those of us who care about immunizing, either because a loved one suffered, or because we are looking out for our patients. Why does it have to be an either or situation? It is certainly NOT black and white. Measles, Mumps and Whopping Cough, FACTUALLY, have resurfaced with the choice of not immunizing children. That's a fact. The Flu shot isn't perfect, of course, but does have advantages. When it's only our family that's affected I suppose.
BTW, I don't subscribe to the victim mentality for anything. It's fine to question, I'm all for questioning everything out there. But when it's my line of work dealing with patients, the public, students... I stop considering myself to be the one reason for my actions. It's in taking care of others, and weighing that importance along side and equal to us as individuals. Can you get that? Will you wear a mask for the sake of the students? And yourself? If it came down to it?
I wash my hands many, many times throughout the day (and I sanitize my classroom on a regular basis as well, since custodians only empty the trash). I also stay at home when I am sick because I believe in protecting myself and others that I am in contact with on a regular basis. If I needed to wear a mask to protect others, then yes, absolutely I would do that.
FACTUALLY speaking, the only reasons studied for recent outbreaks are directly attributed to non-vaxxers. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that when effectiveness of any vaccine comes up then all fingers point to non vaccination as the only possible cause? If you are vaccinated then shouldn't you be protected from whooping cough, measles, mumps, etc? Why the sudden outbreaks? Over 80% of the whooping cough cases in CA were of vaccinated children. Clearly, the effectiveness of said vaccine is in question. But when safety and effectiveness is brought up, even by scientists and MD's, then it is quickly dismissed and no further studies are conducted. When scientists do question these very things with their own research, many of them are dismissed by pharmaceuticals and the medical establishment as quacks. Shouldn't the REAL response be to conduct double blind studies to ascertain that the vaccines are working the way they are supposed to? Isn't THAT just as much the responsibility of everyone involved?
For measles, mumps, rubella (German Measles) and a few other vaccinations you can do a blood test to see if the individual has effective immunity. When I was in nursing school, if we did not have proof of immunization, we had to get a blood test that showed whether or not we were immune to certain diseases, especially when working with pregnant women and infants, Rubella can be devastating when contracted by a pregnant woman. I remember having to get a titer drawn when I was pregnant as well. So you should be able to do a simple blood test to determine immunity. Looks like nursing students are still getting titers if they have no proof of immunization. http://csulb.edu/colleges/chhs/departments/nursing/docs/TiterandVaccinationInformation_000.pdf
In addition, from the Mayo Clinic, "Mumps is an infection that can cause serious problems, such as encephalitis and meningitis, which affect the brain. In addition, adolescent boys and men are very susceptible to a condition called orchitis, which causes pain and swelling in the testicles and scrotum and, in rare cases, sterility. Also, mumps infection can cause spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) in women during the first 3 months of pregnancy.
If you're pointing the finger at me for the "bully" behavior you're talking about? You've got to be kidding me (aside of me saying that you should be ashamed, I apologize for that).
I have explored alternative meds and currently have a level 2 reiki certification that I can use on patients. I get acupuncture for chronic pain in my legs. After continuing to write you, Riotgirl, about your plan on what you'd do to protect your students, rather than just yourself, you have continued to deflect the questions. I have already said that whatever one feels is right for them, is fine, unless you work with the public.
And I felt like I was providing you with the steps I was taking to keep my students from getting ill but it felt like since my steps didn't coincide with what you (and others) felt like I should be doing then I was selfish and irresponsible. No one really ever addressed any of my points made, such as the gut biome, and how this affects your immune system. What responsibility do you bear when you get the flu shot and it fails? My friend is a NICU nurse and feels the exact same way you do about all vaccines and public safety. However, all 5 members of her family contracted the flu in December and she knew her husband most likely had the flu and sent her kids to play with mine. She assumed that they were all protected because they had the flu shot. What will you do if your vaccine doesn't work? Will you wear a mask just in case you DO get sick? Don't we all make the best choices we can with the information available? I'm glad you have investigated alternative medicine and feel comfortable utilizing it in your practice and for yourself.(and the others that have mentioned it as well). I do not feel comfortable with the rather one sided studies that have been conducted on vaccine safety and effectiveness. That info-graphic above? It presents only a portion of the reason for the rise in these diseases and makes it seem like the only possible explanation is the anti-vaxxers. It is a complicated topic and science isn't infallible.
My apologies (and thank you for your apology, I appreciate it) if the bully comment was out of line but I felt bullied by you and several others who made it clear that the only way to protect everyone is through mass vaccination regardless of issues that arise about their safety and effectiveness. All I want is the ability to question safety and effectiveness and in the current climate that is not possible - why is that?
I've said what my responsibility is when I get sick, whether it's the flu or not. STAY HOME. Wash my hands constantly and sanitize the house. Like anyone should do when they're sick. It's too bad your friend thinks that getting the flu shot means that air-born germs mean nothing, that simply sounds absurd and I won't let my daughter play at others' house when she's around sick germs, nor do I let kids come to my house if they have sick germs. I had one friend over on Christmas night who coughed all over a birthday cake. I wrapped the rest up and sent it home with him. Just because we tend to be around idiots gives us no excuse to generalize the rest of us.
If I had to wear a mask? Yes, I would. But would you? Being around students every day? You still haven't answered that one. I still get the overall feeling from everyone's posts here is that we're either thinking of OURSELVES ONLY and the CPC and FDA controlling our lives, and then there's those of us who care about immunizing, either because a loved one suffered, or because we are looking out for our patients. Why does it have to be an either or situation? It is certainly NOT black and white. Measles, Mumps and Whopping Cough, FACTUALLY, have resurfaced with the choice of not immunizing children. That's a fact. The Flu shot isn't perfect, of course, but does have advantages. When it's only our family that's affected I suppose.
BTW, I don't subscribe to the victim mentality for anything. It's fine to question, I'm all for questioning everything out there. But when it's my line of work dealing with patients, the public, students... I stop considering myself to be the one reason for my actions. It's in taking care of others, and weighing that importance along side and equal to us as individuals. Can you get that? Will you wear a mask for the sake of the students? And yourself? If it came down to it?
I wash my hands many, many times throughout the day (and I sanitize my classroom on a regular basis as well, since custodians only empty the trash). I also stay at home when I am sick because I believe in protecting myself and others that I am in contact with on a regular basis. If I needed to wear a mask to protect others, then yes, absolutely I would do that.
FACTUALLY speaking, the only reasons studied for recent outbreaks are directly attributed to non-vaxxers. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that when effectiveness of any vaccine comes up then all fingers point to non vaccination as the only possible cause? If you are vaccinated then shouldn't you be protected from whooping cough, measles, mumps, etc? Why the sudden outbreaks? Over 80% of the whooping cough cases in CA were of vaccinated children. Clearly, the effectiveness of said vaccine is in question. But when safety and effectiveness is brought up, even by scientists and MD's, then it is quickly dismissed and no further studies are conducted. When scientists do question these very things with their own research, many of them are dismissed by pharmaceuticals and the medical establishment as quacks. Shouldn't the REAL response be to conduct double blind studies to ascertain that the vaccines are working the way they are supposed to? Isn't THAT just as much the responsibility of everyone involved?
For measles, mumps, rubella (German Measles) and a few other vaccinations you can do a blood test to see if the individual has effective immunity. When I was in nursing school, if we did not have proof of immunization, we had to get a blood test that showed whether or not we were immune to certain diseases, especially when working with pregnant women and infants, Rubella can be devastating when contracted by a pregnant woman. I remember having to get a titer drawn when I was pregnant as well. So you should be able to do a simple blood test to determine immunity. Looks like nursing students are still getting titers if they have no proof of immunization. http://csulb.edu/colleges/chhs/departments/nursing/docs/TiterandVaccinationInformation_000.pdf
In addition, from the Mayo Clinic, "Mumps is an infection that can cause serious problems, such as encephalitis and meningitis, which affect the brain. In addition, adolescent boys and men are very susceptible to a condition called orchitis, which causes pain and swelling in the testicles and scrotum and, in rare cases, sterility. Also, mumps infection can cause spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) in women during the first 3 months of pregnancy.
If you're pointing the finger at me for the "bully" behavior you're talking about? You've got to be kidding me (aside of me saying that you should be ashamed, I apologize for that).
I have explored alternative meds and currently have a level 2 reiki certification that I can use on patients. I get acupuncture for chronic pain in my legs. After continuing to write you, Riotgirl, about your plan on what you'd do to protect your students, rather than just yourself, you have continued to deflect the questions. I have already said that whatever one feels is right for them, is fine, unless you work with the public.
And I felt like I was providing you with the steps I was taking to keep my students from getting ill but it felt like since my steps didn't coincide with what you (and others) felt like I should be doing then I was selfish and irresponsible. No one really ever addressed any of my points made, such as the gut biome, and how this affects your immune system. What responsibility do you bear when you get the flu shot and it fails? My friend is a NICU nurse and feels the exact same way you do about all vaccines and public safety. However, all 5 members of her family contracted the flu in December and she knew her husband most likely had the flu and sent her kids to play with mine. She assumed that they were all protected because they had the flu shot. What will you do if your vaccine doesn't work? Will you wear a mask just in case you DO get sick? Don't we all make the best choices we can with the information available? I'm glad you have investigated alternative medicine and feel comfortable utilizing it in your practice and for yourself.(and the others that have mentioned it as well). I do not feel comfortable with the rather one sided studies that have been conducted on vaccine safety and effectiveness. That info-graphic above? It presents only a portion of the reason for the rise in these diseases and makes it seem like the only possible explanation is the anti-vaxxers. It is a complicated topic and science isn't infallible.
My apologies (and thank you for your apology, I appreciate it) if the bully comment was out of line but I felt bullied by you and several others who made it clear that the only way to protect everyone is through mass vaccination regardless of issues that arise about their safety and effectiveness. All I want is the ability to question safety and effectiveness and in the current climate that is not possible - why is that?
I've said what my responsibility is when I get sick, whether it's the flu or not. STAY HOME. Wash my hands constantly and sanitize the house. Like anyone should do when they're sick. It's too bad your friend thinks that getting the flu shot means that air-born germs mean nothing, that simply sounds absurd and I won't let my daughter play at others' house when she's around sick germs, nor do I let kids come to my house if they have sick germs. I had one friend over on Christmas night who coughed all over a birthday cake. I wrapped the rest up and sent it home with him. Just because we tend to be around idiots gives us no excuse to generalize the rest of us.
If I had to wear a mask? Yes, I would. But would you? Being around students every day? You still haven't answered that one. I still get the overall feeling from everyone's posts here is that we're either thinking of OURSELVES ONLY and the CPC and FDA controlling our lives, and then there's those of us who care about immunizing, either because a loved one suffered, or because we are looking out for our patients. Why does it have to be an either or situation? It is certainly NOT black and white. Measles, Mumps and Whopping Cough, FACTUALLY, have resurfaced with the choice of not immunizing children. That's a fact. The Flu shot isn't perfect, of course, but does have advantages. When it's only our family that's affected I suppose.
BTW, I don't subscribe to the victim mentality for anything. It's fine to question, I'm all for questioning everything out there. But when it's my line of work dealing with patients, the public, students... I stop considering myself to be the one reason for my actions. It's in taking care of others, and weighing that importance along side and equal to us as individuals. Can you get that? Will you wear a mask for the sake of the students? And yourself? If it came down to it?
I wash my hands many, many times throughout the day (and I sanitize my classroom on a regular basis as well, since custodians only empty the trash). I also stay at home when I am sick because I believe in protecting myself and others that I am in contact with on a regular basis. If I needed to wear a mask to protect others, then yes, absolutely I would do that.
FACTUALLY speaking, the only reasons studied for recent outbreaks are directly attributed to non-vaxxers. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that when effectiveness of any vaccine comes up then all fingers point to non vaccination as the only possible cause? If you are vaccinated then shouldn't you be protected from whooping cough, measles, mumps, etc? Why the sudden outbreaks? Over 80% of the whooping cough cases in CA were of vaccinated children. Clearly, the effectiveness of said vaccine is in question. But when safety and effectiveness is brought up, even by scientists and MD's, then it is quickly dismissed and no further studies are conducted. When scientists do question these very things with their own research, many of them are dismissed by pharmaceuticals and the medical establishment as quacks. Shouldn't the REAL response be to conduct double blind studies to ascertain that the vaccines are working the way they are supposed to? Isn't THAT just as much the responsibility of everyone involved?
Funny how you are so adamant against vaccines after the personal stories from others being posted and the constant reminder that you work with children,that rather than attempt to have an open mind on the matter, and consider both sides of the picture, you flat out refuse (aside from saying that you would wear a mask ). That's ok, I understand now. And I am now done attempting to persuade you to think about the influence you have directly with your students. I consider your thinking rather dangerous, but hey, that's just me. I went through the exploration of delaying vaccinations when my daughter was born, and my own research proved to me that they are very necessary. But to each, his own.
For measles, mumps, rubella (German Measles) and a few other vaccinations you can do a blood test to see if the individual has effective immunity. When I was in nursing school, if we did not have proof of immunization, we had to get a blood test that showed whether or not we were immune to certain diseases, especially when working with pregnant women and infants, Rubella can be devastating when contracted by a pregnant woman. I remember having to get a titer drawn when I was pregnant as well. So you should be able to do a simple blood test to determine immunity. Looks like nursing students are still getting titers if they have no proof of immunization. http://csulb.edu/colleges/chhs/departments/nursing/docs/TiterandVaccinationInformation_000.pdf
In addition, from the Mayo Clinic, "Mumps is an infection that can cause serious problems, such as encephalitis and meningitis, which affect the brain. In addition, adolescent boys and men are very susceptible to a condition called orchitis, which causes pain and swelling in the testicles and scrotum and, in rare cases, sterility. Also, mumps infection can cause spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) in women during the first 3 months of pregnancy.
Meaning that the individual has had or has had effective exposure to these diseases and have immunity?
Yes, the titer measures the level of antibodies to the virus in your blood to see whether you're immune. Most women are immune to rubella, either because they've been vaccinated or had the disease as a child. Unless of course, your parents didn't get you vaccinated. Women who have a low titer and who become pregnant must avoid anyone who has the infection and forgo travel to foreign countries where the disease is still prevalent. Sadly it's incidence is rising again in the US. The US was considered rubella free in 2004. But we have new cases again. And while it wouldn't do much to non-pregnant people, it is devastating to pregnant women and their unborn children.
Funny how you are so adamant against vaccines after the personal stories from others being posted and the constant reminder that you work with children,that rather than attempt to have an open mind on the matter, and consider both sides of the picture, you flat out refuse (aside from saying that you would wear a mask ). That's ok, I understand now. And I am now done attempting to persuade you to think about the influence you have directly with your students. I consider your thinking rather dangerous, but hey, that's just me. I went through the exploration of delaying vaccinations when my daughter was born, and my own research proved to me that they are very necessary. But to each, his own.
I see no attempt on your part to have an open mind and to discuss the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. Your only response has been to 'persuade' me to follow along and get a vaccine, regardless of any questions that may be raised even by noted scientists, in order to protect my students. You aren't interested in me having an open mind, if you were you would address any of the given points I've had throughout this thread. Instead, you continue to remind me that you think I am shirking my public responsibilities. Any commentary on safety? Any comment on effectiveness? Should I nobly go out and get a vaccine that contains questionable ingredients in the hope that if I am exposed to influenza that I am exposed to a strain that was in this years vaccine? I am sure, in your eyes, that I should forego any questioning at all and go out and inject thimerasol, formaldehyde, and Polysorbate 80 into my body to protect my students even though the flu shot has been shown to be about 70% effective in any given year. Agreed, I am done trying to have a conversation with someone who has done nothing to advance the conversation and who has spoken down to me as if I am some wayward child. I will continue to question everything and I will continue to read studies and I will continue to talk to people that have a multitude of perspectives about this topic and I will continue to try to figure out if vaccines are, indeed, the best thing for us all. I have read the personal anecdotes in this thread and I take them all to heart but for every story that ends badly there is another story that doesn't. At the end of the day I'll take your criticism of being selfish because as important as my students are to me, MY children are MOST important to me and their safety is my ultimate concern and I will no longer inject ingredients into their bodies when they are not deemed entirely safe nor entirely effective.
For anyone that is interested, I ran across this study from the British Medical Journal questioning the need for this vaccine. Here is the abstract:
Promotion of influenza vaccines is one of the most visible and aggressive public health policies today. Twenty years ago, in 1990, 32 million doses of influenza vaccine were available in the United States. Today around 135 million doses of influenza vaccine annually enter the US market, with vaccinations administered in drug stores, supermarkets—even some drive-throughs. This enormous growth has not been fueled by popular demand but instead by a public health campaign that delivers a straightforward, who-in-their-right-mind-could-possibly-disagree message: influenza is a serious disease, we are all at risk of complications from influenza, the flu shot is virtually risk free, and vaccination saves lives. Through this lens, the lack of influenza vaccine availability for all 315 million US citizens seems to border on the unethical. Yet across the country, mandatory influenza vaccination policies have cropped up, particularly in healthcare facilities,1 precisely because not everyone wants the vaccination, and compulsion appears the only way to achieve high vaccination rates.2 Closer examination of influenza vaccine policies shows that although proponents employ the rhetoric of science, the studies underlying the policy are often of low quality, and do not substantiate officials’ claims. The vaccine might be less beneficial and less safe than has been claimed, and the threat of influenza appears overstated.
My son had the H1N1 a few years ago. Scary. My close friend is a physician and saw him at home- reassuring us that everything was going to be okay. He was correct- everything turned out well.
The kid is a very healthy and strong child, but the virus left him a pile of quivering jello. Reading through this thread I am reminded how vulnerable and exposed we all are (and how worried we were entertaining the worst).
While I tend to think it is a personal choice for all, I get the flu shot for a few of the reasons already listed. And with this said, it didn't do me any good this past weekend while I barfed my face off and lied in bed for two days: relegated to sipping water and chewing Gravol. What a horrible feeling.
Nature is trying to get us.
Cool everything turned out well for your son! -
Do you know what caused your weekend adventure of barfing and sipping water? Was it flu related or something else? Maybe a little food poisoning or something?
The whole story comes out: my daughter woke up in the middle of the night puking. Later, in the afternoon, it was my turn. What happened in my house has been happening in many houses- it's not food poisoning.
On that note... I've had food poisoning twice: not fun.
My son had the H1N1 a few years ago. Scary. My close friend is a physician and saw him at home- reassuring us that everything was going to be okay. He was correct- everything turned out well.
The kid is a very healthy and strong child, but the virus left him a pile of quivering jello. Reading through this thread I am reminded how vulnerable and exposed we all are (and how worried we were entertaining the worst).
While I tend to think it is a personal choice for all, I get the flu shot for a few of the reasons already listed. And with this said, it didn't do me any good this past weekend while I barfed my face off and lied in bed for two days: relegated to sipping water and chewing Gravol. What a horrible feeling.
Nature is trying to get us.
Cool everything turned out well for your son! -
Do you know what caused your weekend adventure of barfing and sipping water? Was it flu related or something else? Maybe a little food poisoning or something?
The whole story comes out: my daughter woke up in the middle of the night puking. Later, in the afternoon, it was my turn. What happened in my house has been happening in many houses- it's not food poisoning.
On that note... I've had food poisoning twice: not fun.
cool that makes sense.
haha!
I wouldn't necessarily say it was cool, but was has been kind of comical is watching my wife and son monitoring their insides over the past couple of days. They think they missed it- hopefully they did.
If not... well crap...I guess I'll be doing a little more around the house than I'm typically used to. Poor me.
Ah! I mean cool as in it now makes sense that you took a flu shot and still got ill as it was not related to what the flu shot was suppose to prevent. (errr dunno if that makes sense)
btw, If I get a flu bug at all, it mostly comes from my nephew (6 years old), actually I think 2 of the last three times I've been kinda ill was passed on from him to me, he'll be staying with me, throw up (or something), then the next day or 2 I'll start feeling all sluggish and sick, and he'll be perfectly fine.
FACTUALLY speaking, the only reasons studied for recent outbreaks are directly attributed to non-vaxxers. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that when effectiveness of any vaccine comes up then all fingers point to non vaccination as the only possible cause? If you are vaccinated then shouldn't you be protected from whooping cough, measles, mumps, etc? Why the sudden outbreaks? Over 80% of the whooping cough cases in CA were of vaccinated children. Clearly, the effectiveness of said vaccine is in question. But when safety and effectiveness is brought up, even by scientists and MD's, then it is quickly dismissed and no further studies are conducted. When scientists do question these very things with their own research, many of them are dismissed by pharmaceuticals and the medical establishment as quacks. Shouldn't the REAL response be to conduct double blind studies to ascertain that the vaccines are working the way they are supposed to? Isn't THAT just as much the responsibility of everyone involved?
Sorry, but you are buying into scare tactics (let me guess: nvic.org?). What you state as fact is FAR from fact. What is actually happening is that the new shots against whooping cough are not 100% effective like they used to almost be. It has to do with a variety of factors.
So instead of being almost completely effective, they are around 50-60% effective. Seems to me those are odds worth playing.
I only started getting the shot to protect my eldest daughter as much as we can. She has an auto-immune disease, and therefore is on immunosuppressants, so anything my wife and I can do to reduce the risk of her immune system taking a beating and possible hospitalization, we will. before that, I honestly never thought there was much point to it. I mean, the flu shot mixture is only a PREDICTION of the strain they THINK will be most active that season, and it's still not 100% effective, but yeah, I get it why people with diseases that affect their immunity would want others to get vaccinated. but I don't go out of my way to tell people it is their social responsibility to do so. personal choice, that's my belief.
Hard to believe the logic in this article, in which the nurses union complains that they are being "unfairly targeted" because visitors to the hospital don't have to have flu shots but they do (or wear a mask). Are they actually equating their role in the hospital to that of visitors? Completely aside from the issue of whether or not the flu shot provides a reasonable level of protection, this seems like a ridiculous argument to make.
And as an aside, it isn't true that physicians don't have to provide proof of vaccination - they do, just through a different mechanism than the nurses and other hospital staff, because they are contractors, not employees of the health authority.
I work in a nursing home and more and more I wonder why certain individuals become nurses and especially, nurse aides. These people are supposed to have a compassionate nature, but more and more I see impatience and sometimes violence from them toward patients.
We live in a very narcissistic society, where we always have the focus on ME. So no wonder nurses and the nurse union are only thinking of themselves. Regardless that they are in a service - and sensitive - driven industry. In the end, people only care about themselves. Me, I don't think twice of getting the flu shot, I do work with patients with low immune systems, after all.
At the same time, the media only publishes the bad news. I'm sure that there are a lot of great folks out there who do think about the patient first. We just don't hear about them much.
OK, I'm one of those "no flu-shot for me" types but I can't help but wonder if I had gotten one that maybe I wouldn't have been down like I've been these last two days. And to make matters worse, I'm a really, really shitty patient, haha!
bsL12, Kudos to you for working in a nursing home. My mother was cared for by good people like you that last year of her life. Some of the people working their were just putting in the hours but some of them were A#1 great, caring, compassionate people. I few of them came with us to my Mom's memorial and cried with us. They were so great. Thanks.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
a number of people will die from influenza every year - it is hard to say as right now, they lump everyone and anyone that shows similar symptoms as dying from the flu ... many people were categorized as dying from the flu when in fact it was not ...
I've taken the flu shot before but only because I had to take it.
Generally I don't get sick too often, I eat well and take good care of my body (and mind), well for the most part. Its the best defense.
If someone has the flu, just keep yourself away from others the best you can. When I've had the flu I keep myself isolated and let the virus(?) run its course. All the while pumping my body with natural kinda things which has/does work for me.
A healthy body will (should) be able to fight it off better, obviously.
of course even if you eat the best of foods you can still get sick/flu, but ones body should (will) be in a better position to fight it off.
I can't really comment on the flu shot cause I simply dont (yet) know enough information about it.
These diseases are rarely fatal, unless you’re a newborn or someone with a suppressed immune system like me. My newborn buddies and I do have some protection, however: the rest of you.
Young babies, the immuno-compromised and people who get chemotherapy are not able to process most vaccinations. Live vaccines in particular, like those for measles and chickenpox, can make us sick. But if 75 percent to 95 percent of the population around us is vaccinated for a particular disease, the rest are protected through what is called herd immunity. In other words, your measles vaccine protects me against the measles...
The truth is, we should not get vaccinated for ourselves alone; we should do it for one another. Having cancer has taught me the value of living in a community. We assist the infirm, pay our taxes and donate to charity, and getting vaccinated — for the flu, for adult whooping cough, for pneumonia — is just another important societal responsibility. After all, we’re in the same herd."
dailykos.com/story/2013/03/02/1191045/-Bill-Maher-Anti-Science-Knuckle-Dragger#
The kid is a very healthy and strong child, but the virus left him a pile of quivering jello. Reading through this thread I am reminded how vulnerable and exposed we all are (and how worried we were entertaining the worst).
While I tend to think it is a personal choice for all, I get the flu shot for a few of the reasons already listed. And with this said, it didn't do me any good this past weekend while I barfed my face off and lied in bed for two days: relegated to sipping water and chewing Gravol. What a horrible feeling.
Nature is trying to get us.
-
Do you know what caused your weekend adventure of barfing and sipping water? Was it flu related or something else? Maybe a little food poisoning or something?
On that note... I've had food poisoning twice: not fun.
FACTUALLY speaking, the only reasons studied for recent outbreaks are directly attributed to non-vaxxers. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that when effectiveness of any vaccine comes up then all fingers point to non vaccination as the only possible cause? If you are vaccinated then shouldn't you be protected from whooping cough, measles, mumps, etc? Why the sudden outbreaks? Over 80% of the whooping cough cases in CA were of vaccinated children. Clearly, the effectiveness of said vaccine is in question. But when safety and effectiveness is brought up, even by scientists and MD's, then it is quickly dismissed and no further studies are conducted. When scientists do question these very things with their own research, many of them are dismissed by pharmaceuticals and the medical establishment as quacks. Shouldn't the REAL response be to conduct double blind studies to ascertain that the vaccines are working the way they are supposed to? Isn't THAT just as much the responsibility of everyone involved?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
In addition, from the Mayo Clinic, "Mumps is an infection that can cause serious problems, such as encephalitis and meningitis, which affect the brain. In addition, adolescent boys and men are very susceptible to a condition called orchitis, which causes pain and swelling in the testicles and scrotum and, in rare cases, sterility. Also, mumps infection can cause spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) in women during the first 3 months of pregnancy.
Rubella (also known as German measles) is a serious infection that causes miscarriages, stillbirths, or birth defects in unborn babies when pregnant women get the disease." http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/measles-mumps-and-rubella-virus-vaccine-live-subcutaneous-route-intramuscular-route/description/drg-20062140
Meaning that the individual has had or has had effective exposure to these diseases and have immunity?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
"In 1964-65, America had a major rubella epidemic, with more than 12 million cases and 20,000 babies born with congenital rubella; of these, 13,000 were deaf, 3,500 were blinded by congenital cataracts, and 1,800 more suffered severe cognitive impairment."
thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/30/why-rubella-s-scary-comeback-should-convince-vaccine-deniers.html
http://measlesrubellainitiative.org/measles-outbreaks-mid-year-2013-update/
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I wouldn't necessarily say it was cool, but was has been kind of comical is watching my wife and son monitoring their insides over the past couple of days. They think they missed it- hopefully they did.
If not... well crap...I guess I'll be doing a little more around the house than I'm typically used to. Poor me.
btw, If I get a flu bug at all, it mostly comes from my nephew (6 years old), actually I think 2 of the last three times I've been kinda ill was passed on from him to me, he'll be staying with me, throw up (or something), then the next day or 2 I'll start feeling all sluggish and sick, and he'll be perfectly fine.
(poor you indeed hahah)
Sorry, but you are buying into scare tactics (let me guess: nvic.org?). What you state as fact is FAR from fact. What is actually happening is that the new shots against whooping cough are not 100% effective like they used to almost be. It has to do with a variety of factors.
So instead of being almost completely effective, they are around 50-60% effective. Seems to me those are odds worth playing.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/01/us-whooping-cough-booster-idUSBRE9700XK20130801
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Flu risk versus vaccine risk...
before that, I honestly never thought there was much point to it. I mean, the flu shot mixture is only a PREDICTION of the strain they THINK will be most active that season, and it's still not 100% effective, but yeah, I get it why people with diseases that affect their immunity would want others to get vaccinated.
but I don't go out of my way to tell people it is their social responsibility to do so. personal choice, that's my belief.
www.headstonesband.com
And as an aside, it isn't true that physicians don't have to provide proof of vaccination - they do, just through a different mechanism than the nurses and other hospital staff, because they are contractors, not employees of the health authority.
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/flu-shot-policy-unfairly-targets-nurses-union-1.1635362
We live in a very narcissistic society, where we always have the focus on ME. So no wonder nurses and the nurse union are only thinking of themselves. Regardless that they are in a service - and sensitive - driven industry. In the end, people only care about themselves. Me, I don't think twice of getting the flu shot, I do work with patients with low immune systems, after all.
At the same time, the media only publishes the bad news. I'm sure that there are a lot of great folks out there who do think about the patient first. We just don't hear about them much.
bsL12, Kudos to you for working in a nursing home. My mother was cared for by good people like you that last year of her life. Some of the people working their were just putting in the hours but some of them were A#1 great, caring, compassionate people. I few of them came with us to my Mom's memorial and cried with us. They were so great. Thanks.