Flu shots

oceaninmyeyes

post-gazette.com/news/health/2014/01/16/H1N1-flu-striking-young-adults-the-most/stories/201401160198\
http://sacbee.com/2014/01/17/6081098/flu-takes-45-lives-so-far-in-california.html
http://cbsnews.com/news/flu-season-child-death-toll-doubles-cdc/

I know some of you are adamantly opposed to flu shots. I heard it all this past week when I was at a funeral for my brother-in-law who died of H1N1 influenza. He was a middle-aged, and other than high blood pressure, a healthy man. He worked a full-time sales job (lots of hand-shaking) and raised cattle besides. A hard-core cowboy. He didn't smoke. He didn't have a reason to develop Acute Respiratory Distress syndrome, except that he came into contact with a virus that can be deadly, and hits younger people much harder than other flu viruses. he went to the doctor and was given medicine. New Year's eve, he felt worse and went to the ER. He was put on a ventilator, and almost 2 weeks later he died from organ failure.

H1N1 killed 200,000 people worldwide in 2009. And it is rearing its ugly head again this year. I heard this evening from a friend who knew a 38 y.o. man who got sick while I was gone to my b-i-l's funeral, and went to the doctor right away and got medication. He took the meds, and went to bed. And then he never woke up. Two weeks ago, I read about a 37 y.o. and a 41 y.o. healthy women who died, one of whom was pregnant.

The third article above shows a map of flu activity by state. Flu shots are still available. It takes 10-14 days to develop immunity. I just wanted you to know, because I don't want this to happen to any of you or anyone you love.

unsung

Sorry to hear that.

As far as the shot it's a crapshoot. Most of the time by the time the shot is available the flu strains have mutated and the shot is useless. We had a pretty lengthy discussion not too long ago on this topic, and I'm not getting into all of that again. My personal choice is that I do not get them.

Again, sorry for your family's loss.

hedonist

I'm in the same mindset as unsung. Never had a flu shot and so far, so good. I've also tried to avoid antibiotics unless absolutely necessary, and aside from the occasional cold (and flu too), we've been okay.

I'm truly sorry about your brother-in-law.

backseatLover12

I'll probably get some flack for saying this, but not getting the flu shot is a selfish act. We are social animals, we pick up shit off of other people and they pick it up off of us. They have these vaccines not for our personal welfare, but the welfare of the public at large. Think about it, it's not about ME. It's about the rest of people we interact with every single day. But we live in a country where *me* is the most important person. Fuck everyone else.

I work in a nursing home, so it is a no brainer that the health of the residents is utmost importance as they have slower immune systems. I got mine because the people I care for are just as important as I am, in my opinion. I certainly would never think twice about thinking of myself when working in a caring profession. But there are some staff who must walk around with a mask because they simply won't get the flu shot. It tells you who these people are thinking about. (themselves only) And I've seen a nurse take hers off because she "doesn't like it". The hell is this woman in nursing for? Herself?

Oceaninmyeyes, my condolences to you. Thanks for spreading the good word. I'm sorry for your loss.

Sadly, many people will only act when it hits close to home.

gimmesometruth27

i work in health care too. i work in an orthopedic physician clinic at a hospital. we are mandated to get the flu shot. i don't mind that. i have gotten it for the last 10 years and i only got the flu one time. the way i see it, i work in health care, which is caring for the health of others. people come to me to fix their broken bones and other various injuries. they do not come to my office to go home with a potentially deadly flu. it is my responsibility to help heal them, not contribute to their ill health. the first rule of medicine is "do no harm." if you do not get vaccinated and you pass your flu to your patients that does not make you a health care provider. it makes you a selfish asshole. and i feel very, very strongly about that. i take my job seriously. everybody in health care should. but sadly, a lot of them are only in it for themselves.

hedonist

I don't bristle at the "selfish" comments...heard them before, and it's OK.

I admit it - I am selfish. Neither heartless nor lacking compassion, but yeah.

In this and many other senses...my life IS about me. About my husband. Us.

First and foremost.

gimmesometruth27

i was calling healthcare workers who refuse to get the vaccination selfish.

i don't care if nonhealthcare workers don't get the vaccine. that is their choice. they should get it to protect everybody else, but if they don't and they get the flu it is on them, nobody else.

brianlux

As with every year, I'm totally frustrated by this issue. When I worked at Marshall Hospital Health Library as employees and volunteers we were encouraged to get the free flu shots that the hospital offered us. I did so during the years I worked there. Since leaving there ten years ago, I haven't had a flu shot and haven't had much change in my health. If I felt more confident about the ingredients (like NO antifreeze) I would consider taking them again. But the list of chemicals I read about scare me away.

backseatLover12

hedonist said:

I don't bristle at the "selfish" comments...heard them before, and it's OK.

I admit it - I am selfish. Neither heartless nor lacking compassion, but yeah.

In this and many other senses...my life IS about me. About my husband. Us.

First and foremost.

As it should be, your health and your family's - first. I don't disagree with that. Like Gimme said, working in healthcare is a different story.

However, I stand by my last sentence: Sadly, many people will only act when it hits close to home. When a loved one falls very sick, it kinda changes your mind on the entire issue. You think of yourself, when something happens to your husband? You may feel differently.

hedonist

backseatLover12 said:

hedonist said:

I don't bristle at the "selfish" comments...heard them before, and it's OK.

I admit it - I am selfish. Neither heartless nor lacking compassion, but yeah.

In this and many other senses...my life IS about me. About my husband. Us.

First and foremost.

As it should be, your health and your family's - first. I don't disagree with that. Like Gimme said, working in healthcare is a different story.

However, I stand by my last sentence: Sadly, many people will only act when it hits close to home. When a loved one falls very sick, it kinda changes your mind on the entire issue. You think of yourself, when something happens to your husband? You may feel differently.

I thought your and gimme's comments might apply only to those in similar public-health positions but it was hard to tell, so thank you for clarifying.

A lot HAS happened to my husband (swine flu included a few years ago - I got hit with it the day he was released from the hospital for it). Of course we put our selves aside as we could, and took care of each other.

I imagine most of us would answer similarly, if in the same position.

When you say "act when it hits close to home"...what specific action do you mean?

riotgrl

oceaninmyeyes, so very sorry for your loss.

My question is, are those of you supporting the widespread use of flu shots using herd immunity as the basis for your reasoning? Because my understanding is that actual herd immunity applies to people who develop a natural immunity to disease based on actually contracting that disease. Vaccinations are supposed to mimic this immunity but fail in the long term because vaccinations are a short term solution.

Personally, I won't get a flu shot again because of the long list of questionable ingredients used to make me 'safe'. I have had very good luck with all natural methods of care; elderberry syrup is especially effective at stopping the flu in its tracks. It would be an interesting analysis if science would actually conduct statistical studies that compare holistic health care with the mainstream allopathic care methods to see a side by side comparison.

hedonist

Howdy, riotgrl! I'd never heard the term "herd immunity" before...interesting concept and as described, one that seemed to serve me well growing up, as I don't think I once took anti-biotics until I got older and they were truly necessary.

I'm going to remember your elderberry syrup comment as well - hadn't heard of that either!

Last-12-Exit

Flu shots work. They shouldnt be mandatory, but people shiuuld be smart enough to get them..

Last-12-Exit

and people SHOULD be smart enough to spell SHOULD.

riotgrl

hedonist said:

Howdy, riotgrl! I'd never heard the term "herd immunity" before...interesting concept and as described, one that seemed to serve me well growing up, as I don't think I once took anti-biotics until I got older and they were truly necessary.

I'm going to remember your elderberry syrup comment as well - hadn't heard of that either!

Hey Hedonist!
I take a preventative dose of elderberry every day during flu season and so far so good which is saying something since I'm surrounded by students all day! It is super easy to make (just in case you can't find any for sale around you, here is a link for a recipe) and tastes pretty good too!

wellnessmama.com/1888/how-to-make-elderberry-syrup-for-flu-prevention/

As far as the effectiveness of of the flu shot, I think that is debatable. Even the CDC (who I freely admit that I detest with a passion) states that effectiveness is dependent on multiple factors, such as health, age, and the particular strain of flu that scientists "guess" will be most prevalent in any given year. Optimum health is a far greater preventative measure against illness that a manufactured vaccine. The most amazing thing about this country though is that we all get to do our own research and make our own decisions about what is best for us!

Guitar92player

Last year was the first year in more than a decade where I got a flu shot and I did not get the flu last year for the first time in a decade.

I got the shot a few weeks ago. I'll update you on how it goes.

backseatLover12

riotgrl said:

hedonist said:

Howdy, riotgrl! I'd never heard the term "herd immunity" before...interesting concept and as described, one that seemed to serve me well growing up, as I don't think I once took anti-biotics until I got older and they were truly necessary.

I'm going to remember your elderberry syrup comment as well - hadn't heard of that either!

Hey Hedonist!
I take a preventative dose of elderberry every day during flu season and so far so good which is saying something since I'm surrounded by students all day! It is super easy to make (just in case you can't find any for sale around you, here is a link for a recipe) and tastes pretty good too!

wellnessmama.com/1888/how-to-make-elderberry-syrup-for-flu-prevention/

As far as the effectiveness of of the flu shot, I think that is debatable. Even the CDC (who I freely admit that I detest with a passion) states that effectiveness is dependent on multiple factors, such as health, age, and the particular strain of flu that scientists "guess" will be most prevalent in any given year. Optimum health is a far greater preventative measure against illness that a manufactured vaccine. The most amazing thing about this country though is that we all get to do our own research and make our own decisions about what is best for us!

I have taken elderberry syrup in tablet form. I still get colds, conjestion, whatever's going around.
SHAME ON YOU for being around students and not caring enough about their health to get a friggin flu shot. Where is that faceplant smilie?

I would hope you have to wear a mask when the flu breaks out in your school.

backseatLover12

Last-12-Exit said:

Flu shots work. They shouldnt be mandatory, but people shiuuld be smart enough to get them..

Agreed. On this post and the post that we all should know how to spell should. LOL

But you'll never change people's minds who don't care how many states and how many people are affected and are dying from the flu. It just doesn't bother some people. But it should.

hedonist

Actually, riotgrl is among those here whom I consider pretty level-headed and well-informed. No need for the shame on you comments (not to mention assumptions that people who've made a choice for themselves simply don't care about others).

backseatLover12

hedonist said:

Actually, riotgrl is among those here whom I consider pretty level-headed and well-informed. No need for the shame on you comments (not to mention assumptions that people who've made a choice for themselves simply don't care about others).

It's not like I insulted her hedonist. When you work with the public, you take public health outbreaks seriously and do whatever it takes to protect yourself AND others. We owe it to each other. It's about all of us, not just me.

riotgrl

backseatLover12 said:

riotgrl said:

hedonist said:

Howdy, riotgrl! I'd never heard the term "herd immunity" before...interesting concept and as described, one that seemed to serve me well growing up, as I don't think I once took anti-biotics until I got older and they were truly necessary.

I'm going to remember your elderberry syrup comment as well - hadn't heard of that either!

Hey Hedonist!
I take a preventative dose of elderberry every day during flu season and so far so good which is saying something since I'm surrounded by students all day! It is super easy to make (just in case you can't find any for sale around you, here is a link for a recipe) and tastes pretty good too!

wellnessmama.com/1888/how-to-make-elderberry-syrup-for-flu-prevention/

As far as the effectiveness of of the flu shot, I think that is debatable. Even the CDC (who I freely admit that I detest with a passion) states that effectiveness is dependent on multiple factors, such as health, age, and the particular strain of flu that scientists "guess" will be most prevalent in any given year. Optimum health is a far greater preventative measure against illness that a manufactured vaccine. The most amazing thing about this country though is that we all get to do our own research and make our own decisions about what is best for us!

I have taken elderberry syrup in tablet form. I still get colds, conjestion, whatever's going around.
SHAME ON YOU for being around students and not caring enough about their health to get a friggin flu shot. Where is that faceplant smilie?

I would hope you have to wear a mask when the flu breaks out in your school.

And I still get sick on occasion as well. Elderberry is not a cure all just as the flu shot does not prevent everyone from getting sick. Why in the world would you assume that I don't care about my students just because I refuse to blindly follow the recommendations of the CDC? I prefer, as I stated before, to do my own research and make up my own mind about what is right for ME. Many of our governmental agencies make questionable judgments in regards to our safety and protection especially if they are following recommendations based on studies that only profit pharmaceutical companies. Have you done any research as to the effectiveness of the flu shot or do you blindly accept what you are told? Most vaccination mentality is based on herd immunity protocol which does NOT apply to immunity from a vaccine because it is a false immunity UNLIKE immunity you gain from actual illness. Not very cool of you to try to shame me - why not have a legitimate debate?