Flu shots

riotgrl

hedonist said:

Actually, riotgrl is among those here whom I consider pretty level-headed and well-informed. No need for the shame on you comments (not to mention assumptions that people who've made a choice for themselves simply don't care about others).

Thanks hedonist, I appreciate it.

PJ_Soul

I don't bother with flu shots, but I think it's probably a good idea for the old, young, those with autoimmune issues, healthcare workers, and those who work or live closely with any of the above get them. I think it seems over the top for the powers that be to suggest that EVERYONE should get them though, like they have done here in BC and Alberta and I think other provinces. That causes a big rush, and then there is a shortage of the stuff, and those who really should get it can't.

backseatLover12

riotgrl said:

backseatLover12 said:

riotgrl said:

Hey Hedonist!
I take a preventative dose of elderberry every day during flu season and so far so good which is saying something since I'm surrounded by students all day! It is super easy to make (just in case you can't find any for sale around you, here is a link for a recipe) and tastes pretty good too!

wellnessmama.com/1888/how-to-make-elderberry-syrup-for-flu-prevention/

As far as the effectiveness of of the flu shot, I think that is debatable. Even the CDC (who I freely admit that I detest with a passion) states that effectiveness is dependent on multiple factors, such as health, age, and the particular strain of flu that scientists "guess" will be most prevalent in any given year. Optimum health is a far greater preventative measure against illness that a manufactured vaccine. The most amazing thing about this country though is that we all get to do our own research and make our own decisions about what is best for us!

I have taken elderberry syrup in tablet form. I still get colds, conjestion, whatever's going around.
SHAME ON YOU for being around students and not caring enough about their health to get a friggin flu shot. Where is that faceplant smilie?

I would hope you have to wear a mask when the flu breaks out in your school.

And I still get sick on occasion as well. Elderberry is not a cure all just as the flu shot does not prevent everyone from getting sick. Why in the world would you assume that I don't care about my students just because I refuse to blindly follow the recommendations of the CDC? I prefer, as I stated before, to do my own research and make up my own mind about what is right for ME. Many of our governmental agencies make questionable judgments in regards to our safety and protection especially if they are following recommendations based on studies that only profit pharmaceutical companies. Have you done any research as to the effectiveness of the flu shot or do you blindly accept what you are told? Most vaccination mentality is based on herd immunity protocol which does NOT apply to immunity from a vaccine because it is a false immunity UNLIKE immunity you gain from actual illness. Not very cool of you to try to shame me - why not have a legitimate debate?

If you cared about your students, then wear a mask when your school gets infiltrated with the flu then. There is a reason for vaccines. Don't get me started about gov't agencies, I can already tell that we'd be on the same side of that debate. But when there is an outbreak of a disease? Yes, I believe that since it does appear to work, and you work with the young (I assume) that getting the shot FOR THEIR SAKE would be worthwhile. Not YOUR sake, THEIRS. I am not talking about personal choice about what's right for you. I am talking about what's best for others, especially the young and the old, and those with compromised immune systems. Not YOU personally.

And the whole herd immunity? Are you kidding. Tell that to the parents of the kids who now have Whopping Cough due to all those other children not getting the vaccine for the past 10 years. The measles is another getting around after years of it being nowhere due to widespread vaccination. There is a REASON FOR VACCINES and it's not herd mentality!

But before you fire back with your reasons against vaccinations? I'm already done. I've been here, done this debate, and I'm not doing it again. All I ask is that you actually think about the kids you work with, THEIR HEALTH, and what you would do FOR THEM, if the flu got around your school. Because the flu shot is not about what we, personally, want to do to our bodies. It's about KEEPING OTHERS HEALTHY.

backseatLover12

backseatLover12 said:

riotgrl said:

backseatLover12 said:

riotgrl said:

Hey Hedonist!
I take a preventative dose of elderberry every day during flu season and so far so good which is saying something since I'm surrounded by students all day! It is super easy to make (just in case you can't find any for sale around you, here is a link for a recipe) and tastes pretty good too!

wellnessmama.com/1888/how-to-make-elderberry-syrup-for-flu-prevention/

As far as the effectiveness of of the flu shot, I think that is debatable. Even the CDC (who I freely admit that I detest with a passion) states that effectiveness is dependent on multiple factors, such as health, age, and the particular strain of flu that scientists "guess" will be most prevalent in any given year. Optimum health is a far greater preventative measure against illness that a manufactured vaccine. The most amazing thing about this country though is that we all get to do our own research and make our own decisions about what is best for us!

I have taken elderberry syrup in tablet form. I still get colds, conjestion, whatever's going around.
SHAME ON YOU for being around students and not caring enough about their health to get a friggin flu shot. Where is that faceplant smilie?

I would hope you have to wear a mask when the flu breaks out in your school.

Duplicate post.

unsung

Riotgrl, you aren't alone. Kudos for your stance.

riotgrl

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backseatLover12 said:

riotgrl said:

backseatLover12 said:

riotgrl said:

Hey Hedonist!
I take a preventative dose of elderberry every day during flu season and so far so good which is saying something since I'm surrounded by students all day! It is super easy to make (just in case you can't find any for sale around you, here is a link for a recipe) and tastes pretty good too!

wellnessmama.com/1888/how-to-make-elderberry-syrup-for-flu-prevention/

As far as the effectiveness of of the flu shot, I think that is debatable. Even the CDC (who I freely admit that I detest with a passion) states that effectiveness is dependent on multiple factors, such as health, age, and the particular strain of flu that scientists "guess" will be most prevalent in any given year. Optimum health is a far greater preventative measure against illness that a manufactured vaccine. The most amazing thing about this country though is that we all get to do our own research and make our own decisions about what is best for us!

I have taken elderberry syrup in tablet form. I still get colds, conjestion, whatever's going around.
SHAME ON YOU for being around students and not caring enough about their health to get a friggin flu shot. Where is that faceplant smilie?

I would hope you have to wear a mask when the flu breaks out in your school.

And I still get sick on occasion as well. Elderberry is not a cure all just as the flu shot does not prevent everyone from getting sick. Why in the world would you assume that I don't care about my students just because I refuse to blindly follow the recommendations of the CDC? I prefer, as I stated before, to do my own research and make up my own mind about what is right for ME. Many of our governmental agencies make questionable judgments in regards to our safety and protection especially if they are following recommendations based on studies that only profit pharmaceutical companies. Have you done any research as to the effectiveness of the flu shot or do you blindly accept what you are told? Most vaccination mentality is based on herd immunity protocol which does NOT apply to immunity from a vaccine because it is a false immunity UNLIKE immunity you gain from actual illness. Not very cool of you to try to shame me - why not have a legitimate debate?

If you cared about your students, then wear a mask when your school gets infiltrated with the flu then. There is a reason for vaccines. Don't get me started about gov't agencies, I can already tell that we'd be on the same side of that debate. But when there is an outbreak of a disease? Yes, I believe that since it does appear to work, and you work with the young (I assume) that getting the shot FOR THEIR SAKE would be worthwhile. Not YOUR sake, THEIRS. I am not talking about personal choice about what's right for you. I am talking about what's best for others, especially the young and the old, and those with compromised immune systems. Not YOU personally.

And the whole herd immunity? Are you kidding. Tell that to the parents of the kids who now have Whopping Cough due to all those other children not getting the vaccine for the past 10 years. The measles is another getting around after years of it being nowhere due to widespread vaccination. There is a REASON FOR VACCINES and it's not herd mentality!

But before you fire back with your reasons against vaccinations? I'm already done. I've been here, done this debate, and I'm not doing it again. All I ask is that you actually think about the kids you work with, THEIR HEALTH, and what you would do FOR THEM, if the flu got around your school. Because the flu shot is not about what we, personally, want to do to our bodies. It's about KEEPING OTHERS HEALTHY.

I won't argue the merits or problems with vaccinations but I would like to state that I am NOT in any way endangering my students (high school BTW) but maybe THEY (and really I should say their parents since I won't blame kids for what their parents have taught them) are endangering themselves. I have spent a great deal of time researching health issues related to the consumption of the standard American diet and the inherent problems that come with living as most American do in this country which equates to being ill a great deal of time. Vaccinations might help but, statistically, vaccinations don't help as often as they should because many who get vaccinations are in poor health - many without realizing it. Why are our kids so ill? Is it really because I don't get a flu shot? No, it is because my students eat donuts for breakfast followed by a 2 liter of coke and the crap they feed them in the cafeteria at lunch followed by McDonald's right after school and probably again for dinner. We are an unhealthy nation that sit on the couch and rely on vaccines and antibiotics and other magic pills to make it all better. So, I fully accept MY responsibility for eating a healthy diet full of un-processed food all made at home by me, sourced from local farmers who don't use pesticides nor GMO products, followed by water to drink, on most occasions, and a 2-4 mile run every day or walking if I can't run. I AM healthy and I DO care about everyone, that is usually the hallmark of teaching and teachers. Can you (or my students) say they do as much to care for themselves so I don't get sick?

backseatLover12

Have to agree with you about what we're eating, riotgirl. You are what you eat, but getting vaccinated protects from getting disease contracted through human contact, not necessarily due to poor health and diet. Come on. Your diet will not keep you from getting the flu completely. Will it help? Sure, somewhat. Stress, emotional and mental health, all of this overall health can play a part in how often we get sick.

Again, I just hope that you wear that mask around the students when/if the flu infiltrates your school. My daughter's school closed down for a day from so many getting the flu last year. It wasn't due to the poor health of the students and staff. It was due to the flu getting around. Do it for the students.

backseatLover12

riotgrl said:

Can you (or my students) say they do as much to care for themselves so I don't get sick?

I have to add to this question. See, I feel that rather than looking at the flu outbreak on the whole as a country wide epidemic and getting vaccinated to keep the numbers down of those hospitalized from the flu, you are looking at it entirely from a "Me" standpoint. It's a viewpoint that you're not willing to step away from and to see the big picture of, and the responsibility that we (and especially you as a teacher to children) have in protecting EACH OTHER, not just ourselves. Think outside the me box! You take care of our kids, so please show some care in their health as well as your own. When you get sick, make sure you're not getting them sick, and it goes vice-versa. Wear a mask or get vaccinated!

riotgrl

backseatLover12 said:

Have to agree with you about what we're eating, riotgirl. You are what you eat, but getting vaccinated protects from getting disease contracted through human contact, not necessarily due to poor health and diet. Come on. Your diet will not keep you from getting the flu completely. Will it help? Sure, somewhat. Stress, emotional and mental health, all of this overall health can play a part in how often we get sick.

Again, I just hope that you wear that mask around the students when/if the flu infiltrates your school. My daughter's school closed down for a day from so many getting the flu last year. It wasn't due to the poor health of the students and staff. It was due to the flu getting around. Do it for the students.

First, will you please stick with debating the topic and refrain from commenting on my character and questioning my integrity? It's completely uncool of you. I know that vaccination is a hot button topic and rises ire in everyone but, surely, we can discuss this like adults - if not, we can end the conversation here and say well done on presenting opposing sides of the argument.

Second, my comment about health is spot on if you understand that over 70% of our immune system is located in our guts. Therefore, if someone chooses to eat pesticide laden fruits and veggies or pink slime burgers from McDonald's or hormone and antibiotic laced beef from factory farmed animals then you start to see that our guts (our immune systems) are overrun with toxins. Our liver attempts to filter and remove these toxins but when we are continually bombarded from a multitude of sources (for example, air pollutants, water pollutants, etc) then it is completely overwhelmed and doesn't function at the rate we need it to. I understand and, in the past, completely agreed with flu vaccines as being beneficial, however, when we reduce our toxic load then we give our bodies a much stronger ability to build antibodies to ward off colds, the flu, and even autoimmune diseases. I agree with your assessment, diet will not completely protect us but it will help. Stress, mental, emotional, and physical, all lower our immunity and make it easier for us to contract illness and disease - why not do everything we can to improve our immune function rather than create a larger toxic load for our bodies? Esepcially if we are already susceptible to illness because of other underlying problems?

For instance, the ingredients that are standard in the flu vaccine contribute to our toxic load, check here: cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

There are multiple manufacturers of flu vaccines but just to list one vaccines ingredients: Influenza (Agriflu) egg proteins, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, cetyltrimethylammonium bromide, neomycin sulfate, kanamycin

Formaldehyde has been classified as a known human carcinogen (cancer causing substance). That ONE substance creates a heavy load for our bodies and FOR ME that negates the effectiveness of the flu vaccine because of the toxic load my body receives from that one substance (and I am completely discounting any other ingredients that may be problematic). I fully respect everyone here that feels that this vaccine or ANY vaccine is worthwhile to use, all I ask is for the same respect because I choose to fortify my immune system through a reduced toxic load, healthy food, and consistent exercise.

Here is a link to a quick article about your gut biome: sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130916122214.htm

backseatLover12

riotgrl said:

backseatLover12 said:

Have to agree with you about what we're eating, riotgirl. You are what you eat, but getting vaccinated protects from getting disease contracted through human contact, not necessarily due to poor health and diet. Come on. Your diet will not keep you from getting the flu completely. Will it help? Sure, somewhat. Stress, emotional and mental health, all of this overall health can play a part in how often we get sick.

Again, I just hope that you wear that mask around the students when/if the flu infiltrates your school. My daughter's school closed down for a day from so many getting the flu last year. It wasn't due to the poor health of the students and staff. It was due to the flu getting around. Do it for the students.

First, will you please stick with debating the topic and refrain from commenting on my character and questioning my integrity? It's completely uncool of you. I know that vaccination is a hot button topic and rises ire in everyone but, surely, we can discuss this like adults - if not, we can end the conversation here and say well done on presenting opposing sides of the argument.

Second, my comment about health is spot on if you understand that over 70% of our immune system is located in our guts. Therefore, if someone chooses to eat pesticide laden fruits and veggies or pink slime burgers from McDonald's or hormone and antibiotic laced beef from factory farmed animals then you start to see that our guts (our immune systems) are overrun with toxins. Our liver attempts to filter and remove these toxins but when we are continually bombarded from a multitude of sources (for example, air pollutants, water pollutants, etc) then it is completely overwhelmed and doesn't function at the rate we need it to. I understand and, in the past, completely agreed with flu vaccines as being beneficial, however, when we reduce our toxic load then we give our bodies a much stronger ability to build antibodies to ward off colds, the flu, and even autoimmune diseases. I agree with your assessment, diet will not completely protect us but it will help. Stress, mental, emotional, and physical, all lower our immunity and make it easier for us to contract illness and disease - why not do everything we can to improve our immune function rather than create a larger toxic load for our bodies? Esepcially if we are already susceptible to illness because of other underlying problems?

For instance, the ingredients that are standard in the flu vaccine contribute to our toxic load, check here: cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

There are multiple manufacturers of flu vaccines but just to list one vaccines ingredients: Influenza (Agriflu) egg proteins, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, cetyltrimethylammonium bromide, neomycin sulfate, kanamycin

Formaldehyde has been classified as a known human carcinogen (cancer causing substance). That ONE substance creates a heavy load for our bodies and FOR ME that negates the effectiveness of the flu vaccine because of the toxic load my body receives from that one substance (and I am completely discounting any other ingredients that may be problematic). I fully respect everyone here that feels that this vaccine or ANY vaccine is worthwhile to use, all I ask is for the same respect because I choose to fortify my immune system through a reduced toxic load, healthy food, and consistent exercise.

Here is a link to a quick article about your gut biome: sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130916122214.htm

I'm sorry if you feel that I'm questioning your integrity. But you work with our kids. You work with the public. Please wear a mask if you refuse to get the flu shot. If you don't like feeling like I'm questioning your motives as to the flu shot, then don't work with kids and I won't bother you. When we work in these professions, it's not just about me. It's about them. Something I feel you're not really looking at and addressing.

polaris_x

the problem with all this stuff is the information out there is ALL misleading ... a lot of the stuff family doctors get today are published by big pharma and just like big agri - they control what information gets out there and what doesn't ... can you honestly say that in a country like the US where there are untested drugs for everything that has a gazillion side effects that you would trust big pharma completely!??

studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?

listen - if someone wants to put all their health and faith on conventional medicine - that's their prerogative but there is plenty of legitimate information out there to warrant others making other choices ...

backseatLover12

polaris_x said:

the problem with all this stuff is the information out there is ALL misleading ... a lot of the stuff family doctors get today are published by big pharma and just like big agri - they control what information gets out there and what doesn't ... can you honestly say that in a country like the US where there are untested drugs for everything that has a gazillion side effects that you would trust big pharma completely!??

studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?

listen - if someone wants to put all their health and faith on conventional medicine - that's their prerogative but there is plenty of legitimate information out there to warrant others making other choices ...

Absolutely. But what is the solution to people working with the public? What is their responsibility to the people they work with? Do we not owe it to others to make a choice for ourselves AND them? When an epidemic outbreaks, what should we do in protecting each other, not just ourselves? Masks are a first step. Vaccinations are a step. Any other alternatives to offer?

polaris_x

The best way to stop the spread of flu is to:

* wash your hands
* stay home when you're sick

riotgrl

backseatLover12 said:

polaris_x said:

the problem with all this stuff is the information out there is ALL misleading ... a lot of the stuff family doctors get today are published by big pharma and just like big agri - they control what information gets out there and what doesn't ... can you honestly say that in a country like the US where there are untested drugs for everything that has a gazillion side effects that you would trust big pharma completely!??

studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?

listen - if someone wants to put all their health and faith on conventional medicine - that's their prerogative but there is plenty of legitimate information out there to warrant others making other choices ...

Absolutely. But what is the solution to people working with the public? What is their responsibility to the people they work with? Do we not owe it to others to make a choice for ourselves AND them? When an epidemic outbreaks, what should we do in protecting each other, not just ourselves? Masks are a first step. Vaccinations are a step. Any other alternatives to offer?

Perhaps you could address the other points that have been made rather than continuing to rely on face masks and vaccines as the ONLY viable alternative. I've said repeatedly that I take care of myself so I don't get sick so I won't pass on illnesses to my students and yet you continue to question my integrity. You question my integrity by making the assumption that the only way to protect others is through the steps that conventional medicine have told you are acceptable.

What responsibility do YOU provide to keep me safe when you contract a form of the influenza virus that is not covered by this years vaccine? Do you always wear a face mask when you leave your home? If not you should, as this years vaccine does not cover all viral mutations that are present in this year's outbreak.

dignin

polaris_x said:

studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?

Sources? I've just recently heard about the fever suppress study but in passing on the radio. I have not heard about the recalled vaccines. Thanks in advance.

Jason P

They were free at work so I got one .... passed on them last year and got the flu.

riotgrl

dignin said:

polaris_x said:

studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?

Sources? I've just recently heard about the fever suppress study but in passing on the radio. I have not heard about the recalled vaccines. Thanks in advance.

The only current vaccine recall that I am aware of is Gardasil .

I think in the fall of 2012 flu vaccines were recalled but none currently.

Source: telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9645544/Thousand-of-flu-vaccines-recalled.html

backseatLover12

riotgrl said:

backseatLover12 said:

polaris_x said:

the problem with all this stuff is the information out there is ALL misleading ... a lot of the stuff family doctors get today are published by big pharma and just like big agri - they control what information gets out there and what doesn't ... can you honestly say that in a country like the US where there are untested drugs for everything that has a gazillion side effects that you would trust big pharma completely!??

studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?

listen - if someone wants to put all their health and faith on conventional medicine - that's their prerogative but there is plenty of legitimate information out there to warrant others making other choices ...

Absolutely. But what is the solution to people working with the public? What is their responsibility to the people they work with? Do we not owe it to others to make a choice for ourselves AND them? When an epidemic outbreaks, what should we do in protecting each other, not just ourselves? Masks are a first step. Vaccinations are a step. Any other alternatives to offer?

Perhaps you could address the other points that have been made rather than continuing to rely on face masks and vaccines as the ONLY viable alternative. I've said repeatedly that I take care of myself so I don't get sick so I won't pass on illnesses to my students and yet you continue to question my integrity. You question my integrity by making the assumption that the only way to protect others is through the steps that conventional medicine have told you are acceptable.

What responsibility do YOU provide to keep me safe when you contract a form of the influenza virus that is not covered by this years vaccine? Do you always wear a face mask when you leave your home? If not you should, as this years vaccine does not cover all viral mutations that are present in this year's outbreak.

Listen, I'm all for staying healthy, eating right, washing hands and staying home when I get sick as Polaris pointed out. But I work in healthcare. You work with students. We both work with the public. And when you work with the public, I just feel it's a no brainer to protecting the public you work with (and yourself) by getting the flu vaccine. They, the public, are a part of your job. But you continually to place the focus on yourself with your replies.

dimitrispearljam

i got the flu shots,
from the moment spent time with my nephews and help my sister to babysit them when needed, i need to protect them in case i got the flu

oceaninmyeyes

I am glad you got your shot, Dimitris. My whole family did as well. My husband was in the Gulf War, and because he had so many vaccines at once, he is loathe to get anymore. But he gladly got the flu shot after seeing what happened to the strong, healthy man that my brother-in-law was. I swore I wasn't going to get back in the middle of this. I was going to post, feel like I had done my civic duty and make a clean getaway.

I am an RN. And last night I was discussing this with a friend, who works with drug development at a university here. We talked about her mother who has epilepsy who got this flu and was hospitalized but pulled through, and now her father has the illness. We talked about bacterial resistance to antibiotics. Tuberculosis is multi-drug resistant and is on the rise. We talked about a patient in a nearby city with drug resistant TB and had had it for years. The bacteria worked its way through his body and came out in an abscess on his behind. They had to surgically remove his lung, ribs, and the tunnel that the bacteria ate throughout his torso. My brother-in-law had secondary bacterial infections. Getting the flu makes you more susceptible to bacteria. Bacteria are evolving with enzymes that allow them to fight the antibiotic miracles that we have had since WWII. If we don't vaccinate and someone comes into contact with a drug-resistant bacteria, then what? Do we just give them the sucks to be you salute? Measles and mumps which were nearly eradicated with vaccines, but are on the rise again, because people are afraid of vaccines. And when more and more people don't get the vaccines, the diseases become more widespread, putting everyone at risk. Measles can and did and does cause blindness in children. Measles blindness is the leading cause of blindness in low income countries. Mumps can cause orchitis, which can cause sterility in men. Vaccines are not the enemy. Are they perfect? No. Do they always work? No. Is there a chance that they could cause an adverse effect? Possibly. But they are one of our best lines of defense against many common diseases that have frequently devastating consequences.

Good frequent handwashing, and taking good care of yourself to keep up your immune system are obviously the first lines of defense. But sometimes those defenses aren't enough.