the problem with all this stuff is the information out there is ALL misleading ... a lot of the stuff family doctors get today are published by big pharma and just like big agri - they control what information gets out there and what doesn't ... can you honestly say that in a country like the US where there are untested drugs for everything that has a gazillion side effects that you would trust big pharma completely!??
studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?
listen - if someone wants to put all their health and faith on conventional medicine - that's their prerogative but there is plenty of legitimate information out there to warrant others making other choices ...
the problem with all this stuff is the information out there is ALL misleading ... a lot of the stuff family doctors get today are published by big pharma and just like big agri - they control what information gets out there and what doesn't ... can you honestly say that in a country like the US where there are untested drugs for everything that has a gazillion side effects that you would trust big pharma completely!??
studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?
listen - if someone wants to put all their health and faith on conventional medicine - that's their prerogative but there is plenty of legitimate information out there to warrant others making other choices ...
Absolutely. But what is the solution to people working with the public? What is their responsibility to the people they work with? Do we not owe it to others to make a choice for ourselves AND them? When an epidemic outbreaks, what should we do in protecting each other, not just ourselves? Masks are a first step. Vaccinations are a step. Any other alternatives to offer?
the problem with all this stuff is the information out there is ALL misleading ... a lot of the stuff family doctors get today are published by big pharma and just like big agri - they control what information gets out there and what doesn't ... can you honestly say that in a country like the US where there are untested drugs for everything that has a gazillion side effects that you would trust big pharma completely!??
studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?
listen - if someone wants to put all their health and faith on conventional medicine - that's their prerogative but there is plenty of legitimate information out there to warrant others making other choices ...
Absolutely. But what is the solution to people working with the public? What is their responsibility to the people they work with? Do we not owe it to others to make a choice for ourselves AND them? When an epidemic outbreaks, what should we do in protecting each other, not just ourselves? Masks are a first step. Vaccinations are a step. Any other alternatives to offer?
Perhaps you could address the other points that have been made rather than continuing to rely on face masks and vaccines as the ONLY viable alternative. I've said repeatedly that I take care of myself so I don't get sick so I won't pass on illnesses to my students and yet you continue to question my integrity. You question my integrity by making the assumption that the only way to protect others is through the steps that conventional medicine have told you are acceptable.
What responsibility do YOU provide to keep me safe when you contract a form of the influenza virus that is not covered by this years vaccine? Do you always wear a face mask when you leave your home? If not you should, as this years vaccine does not cover all viral mutations that are present in this year's outbreak.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?
Sources? I've just recently heard about the fever suppress study but in passing on the radio. I have not heard about the recalled vaccines. Thanks in advance.
studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?
Sources? I've just recently heard about the fever suppress study but in passing on the radio. I have not heard about the recalled vaccines. Thanks in advance.
The only current vaccine recall that I am aware of is Gardasil .
I think in the fall of 2012 flu vaccines were recalled but none currently.
the problem with all this stuff is the information out there is ALL misleading ... a lot of the stuff family doctors get today are published by big pharma and just like big agri - they control what information gets out there and what doesn't ... can you honestly say that in a country like the US where there are untested drugs for everything that has a gazillion side effects that you would trust big pharma completely!??
studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?
listen - if someone wants to put all their health and faith on conventional medicine - that's their prerogative but there is plenty of legitimate information out there to warrant others making other choices ...
Absolutely. But what is the solution to people working with the public? What is their responsibility to the people they work with? Do we not owe it to others to make a choice for ourselves AND them? When an epidemic outbreaks, what should we do in protecting each other, not just ourselves? Masks are a first step. Vaccinations are a step. Any other alternatives to offer?
Perhaps you could address the other points that have been made rather than continuing to rely on face masks and vaccines as the ONLY viable alternative. I've said repeatedly that I take care of myself so I don't get sick so I won't pass on illnesses to my students and yet you continue to question my integrity. You question my integrity by making the assumption that the only way to protect others is through the steps that conventional medicine have told you are acceptable.
What responsibility do YOU provide to keep me safe when you contract a form of the influenza virus that is not covered by this years vaccine? Do you always wear a face mask when you leave your home? If not you should, as this years vaccine does not cover all viral mutations that are present in this year's outbreak.
Listen, I'm all for staying healthy, eating right, washing hands and staying home when I get sick as Polaris pointed out. But I work in healthcare. You work with students. We both work with the public. And when you work with the public, I just feel it's a no brainer to protecting the public you work with (and yourself) by getting the flu vaccine. They, the public, are a part of your job. But you continually to place the focus on yourself with your replies.
i got the flu shots, from the moment spent time with my nephews and help my sister to babysit them when needed, i need to protect them in case i got the flu
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I am glad you got your shot, Dimitris. My whole family did as well. My husband was in the Gulf War, and because he had so many vaccines at once, he is loathe to get anymore. But he gladly got the flu shot after seeing what happened to the strong, healthy man that my brother-in-law was. I swore I wasn't going to get back in the middle of this. I was going to post, feel like I had done my civic duty and make a clean getaway.
I am an RN. And last night I was discussing this with a friend, who works with drug development at a university here. We talked about her mother who has epilepsy who got this flu and was hospitalized but pulled through, and now her father has the illness. We talked about bacterial resistance to antibiotics. Tuberculosis is multi-drug resistant and is on the rise. We talked about a patient in a nearby city with drug resistant TB and had had it for years. The bacteria worked its way through his body and came out in an abscess on his behind. They had to surgically remove his lung, ribs, and the tunnel that the bacteria ate throughout his torso. My brother-in-law had secondary bacterial infections. Getting the flu makes you more susceptible to bacteria. Bacteria are evolving with enzymes that allow them to fight the antibiotic miracles that we have had since WWII. If we don't vaccinate and someone comes into contact with a drug-resistant bacteria, then what? Do we just give them the sucks to be you salute? Measles and mumps which were nearly eradicated with vaccines, but are on the rise again, because people are afraid of vaccines. And when more and more people don't get the vaccines, the diseases become more widespread, putting everyone at risk. Measles can and did and does cause blindness in children. Measles blindness is the leading cause of blindness in low income countries. Mumps can cause orchitis, which can cause sterility in men. Vaccines are not the enemy. Are they perfect? No. Do they always work? No. Is there a chance that they could cause an adverse effect? Possibly. But they are one of our best lines of defense against many common diseases that have frequently devastating consequences.
Good frequent handwashing, and taking good care of yourself to keep up your immune system are obviously the first lines of defense. But sometimes those defenses aren't enough.
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?
Sources? I've just recently heard about the fever suppress study but in passing on the radio. I have not heard about the recalled vaccines. Thanks in advance.
I am glad you got your shot, Dimitris. My whole family did as well. My husband was in the Gulf War, and because he had so many vaccines at once, he is loathe to get anymore. But he gladly got the flu shot after seeing what happened to the strong, healthy man that my brother-in-law was. I swore I wasn't going to get back in the middle of this. I was going to post, feel like I had done my civic duty and make a clean getaway.
I am an RN. And last night I was discussing this with a friend, who works with drug development at a university here. We talked about her mother who has epilepsy who got this flu and was hospitalized but pulled through, and now her father has the illness. We talked about bacterial resistance to antibiotics. Tuberculosis is multi-drug resistant and is on the rise. We talked about a patient in a nearby city with drug resistant TB and had had it for years. The bacteria worked its way through his body and came out in an abscess on his behind. They had to surgically remove his lung, ribs, and the tunnel that the bacteria ate throughout his torso. My brother-in-law had secondary bacterial infections. Getting the flu makes you more susceptible to bacteria. Bacteria are evolving with enzymes that allow them to fight the antibiotic miracles that we have had since WWII. If we don't vaccinate and someone comes into contact with a drug-resistant bacteria, then what? Do we just give them the sucks to be you salute? Measles and mumps which were nearly eradicated with vaccines, but are on the rise again, because people are afraid of vaccines. And when more and more people don't get the vaccines, the diseases become more widespread, putting everyone at risk. Measles can and did and does cause blindness in children. Measles blindness is the leading cause of blindness in low income countries. Mumps can cause orchitis, which can cause sterility in men. Vaccines are not the enemy. Are they perfect? No. Do they always work? No. Is there a chance that they could cause an adverse effect? Possibly. But they are one of our best lines of defense against many common diseases that have frequently devastating consequences.
Good frequent handwashing, and taking good care of yourself to keep up your immune system are obviously the first lines of defense. But sometimes those defenses aren't enough.
hey ... if you believe everything big pharma tells you and feel comfortable with the vaccines - that is great ... wish you well really ... i just don't think it's fair to criticize people who've done their own research and critical thinking that have decided to not use certain vaccinations ... especially when the side effects have never been properly studied ..
I am glad you got your shot, Dimitris. My whole family did as well. My husband was in the Gulf War, and because he had so many vaccines at once, he is loathe to get anymore. But he gladly got the flu shot after seeing what happened to the strong, healthy man that my brother-in-law was. I swore I wasn't going to get back in the middle of this. I was going to post, feel like I had done my civic duty and make a clean getaway.
I am an RN. And last night I was discussing this with a friend, who works with drug development at a university here. We talked about her mother who has epilepsy who got this flu and was hospitalized but pulled through, and now her father has the illness. We talked about bacterial resistance to antibiotics. Tuberculosis is multi-drug resistant and is on the rise. We talked about a patient in a nearby city with drug resistant TB and had had it for years. The bacteria worked its way through his body and came out in an abscess on his behind. They had to surgically remove his lung, ribs, and the tunnel that the bacteria ate throughout his torso. My brother-in-law had secondary bacterial infections. Getting the flu makes you more susceptible to bacteria. Bacteria are evolving with enzymes that allow them to fight the antibiotic miracles that we have had since WWII. If we don't vaccinate and someone comes into contact with a drug-resistant bacteria, then what? Do we just give them the sucks to be you salute? Measles and mumps which were nearly eradicated with vaccines, but are on the rise again, because people are afraid of vaccines. And when more and more people don't get the vaccines, the diseases become more widespread, putting everyone at risk. Measles can and did and does cause blindness in children. Measles blindness is the leading cause of blindness in low income countries. Mumps can cause orchitis, which can cause sterility in men. Vaccines are not the enemy. Are they perfect? No. Do they always work? No. Is there a chance that they could cause an adverse effect? Possibly. But they are one of our best lines of defense against many common diseases that have frequently devastating consequences.
Good frequent handwashing, and taking good care of yourself to keep up your immune system are obviously the first lines of defense. But sometimes those defenses aren't enough.
hey ... if you believe everything big pharma tells you and feel comfortable with the vaccines - that is great ... wish you well really ... i just don't think it's fair to criticize people who've done their own research and critical thinking that have decided to not use certain vaccinations ... especially when the side effects have never been properly studied ..
Hey Polaris, sorry you felt like I was criticizing. I was stating my own fairly informed opinion. I don't begrudge alternative medicines. I practice quite a few of them. My entire family has seen our Chinese Medicine specialist who has done acupuncture on all of us for one thing or another. And prescribed herbal treatments that have helped. But I also know that some of the diseases for which we have vaccines, are killers. I have read quite a few historical accounts of medical personnel, doctors, nurses, healers who treated people before the days of "Big Pharma" and read of their heartbreak when attempting to save a patient that could so easily have been treated with an antibiotic or maybe kept from being sick with a vaccine. My mother walked door to door to raise money to develop a polio vaccine, when so many mothers watched their kids be crippled or die at the hands of a horrible disease. I have read genealogical charts of my ancestors to see lists and lists of children in the family who didn't make it to adulthood in the days before vaccines. And some of those died in the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. I am pretty sure that those mothers would have done pretty much anything for a flu vaccine for their children. I stated before that my husband doesn't generally take a flu shot. Because I have asthma, I do. You have every right in the world to make your own health decisions. But as in the case of the rise of measles and mumps, the failure of some to get vaccinated increases the risk of the whole population. And the H1N1 swine flu is more virulent than the average flu.
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
I am glad you got your shot, Dimitris. My whole family did as well. My husband was in the Gulf War, and because he had so many vaccines at once, he is loathe to get anymore. But he gladly got the flu shot after seeing what happened to the strong, healthy man that my brother-in-law was. I swore I wasn't going to get back in the middle of this. I was going to post, feel like I had done my civic duty and make a clean getaway. .
My choive was easy..i prefer to regret for something i did than regret for something i didnt done..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I am glad you got your shot, Dimitris. My whole family did as well. My husband was in the Gulf War, and because he had so many vaccines at once, he is loathe to get anymore. But he gladly got the flu shot after seeing what happened to the strong, healthy man that my brother-in-law was. I swore I wasn't going to get back in the middle of this. I was going to post, feel like I had done my civic duty and make a clean getaway. .
My choive was easy..i prefer to regret for something i did than regret for something i didnt done..
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
I first want to express my sympathy to the OP for your loss. The flu is such a common illness that many of us forget what a devastating killer it can be.
I work in public health. I'm expected--not required--to have a flu shot and I'd get one yearly even if that weren't the case. For many years I never got one. After a very serious bout with the flu 12 years ago, I started getting one annually and haven't had the flu since. I believe that the flu shot has better odds than a "crap shoot" but that's based on my experience, not what Big Pharma/Big Brother/whomever tells me. I have a health history that has given me a fair amount of skepticism of the medical establishment but that I believe has made me a good consumer when it comes to my health care.
People have a right not to get vaccinations and I respect that. The fact that others of us chose to get a flu shot or other vaccinations does not make us sheeples who blindly accept whatever we are told. Every time I've seen a thread here about flu shots or any other vaccines, I've been bothered by many posts with a tone of superiority from those who disdain vaccinations. If we're going to have a reasonable discussion about the topic, let's please don't belittle each other's views about what we consider best for our own health.
Whether you chose to get a flu shot or not, I'd encourage you to wash your hands frequently (your best defense against many kinds of infections). For the situations where you can't wash your hands, carry some Purell, which will kill many germs without decreasing resistance to bacteria.
I first want to express my sympathy to the OP for your loss. The flu is such a common illness that many of us forget what a devastating killer it can be.
I work in public health. I'm expected--not required--to have a flu shot and I'd get one yearly even if that weren't the case. For many years I never got one. After a very serious bout with the flu 12 years ago, I started getting one annually and haven't had the flu since. I believe that the flu shot has better odds than a "crap shoot" but that's based on my experience, not what Big Pharma/Big Brother/whomever tells me. I have a health history that has given me a fair amount of skepticism of the medical establishment but that I believe has made me a good consumer when it comes to my health care.
People have a right not to get vaccinations and I respect that. The fact that others of us chose to get a flu shot or other vaccinations does not make us sheeples who blindly accept whatever we are told. Every time I've seen a thread here about flu shots or any other vaccines, I've been bothered by many posts with a tone of superiority from those who disdain vaccinations. If we're going to have a reasonable discussion about the topic, let's please don't belittle each other's views about what we consider best for our own health.
Whether you chose to get a flu shot or not, I'd encourage you to wash your hands frequently (your best defense against many kinds of infections). For the situations where you can't wash your hands, carry some Purell, which will kill many germs without decreasing resistance to bacteria.
Yes, great points Who Princess! it really is too bad that we can't have a reasoned debate and discussion about this topic. There is so much out there to review and analyze that I guess I thought we could discuss it without the bully behavior. That vaccine info-graphic that the OP posted above is currently making the rounds of Facebook and the internet and would, IMO, be a great tool for discussion. Imagine if we could all agree to disagree at the outset but engage in a reasoned debate about the relative merits of vaccination/non-vaccination, with the amount of brain power in this forum, it could have been a great topic to discuss and one that we could have all benefited from collectively.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
If you're pointing the finger at me for the "bully" behavior you're talking about? You've got to be kidding me (aside of me saying that you should be ashamed, I apologize for that).
I have explored alternative meds and currently have a level 2 reiki certification that I can use on patients. I get acupuncture for chronic pain in my legs. After continuing to write you, Riotgirl, about your plan on what you'd do to protect your students, rather than just yourself, you have continued to deflect the questions. I have already said that whatever one feels is right for them, is fine, unless you work with the public.
If you're pointing the finger at me for the "bully" behavior you're talking about? You've got to be kidding me (aside of me saying that you should be ashamed, I apologize for that).
I have explored alternative meds and currently have a level 2 reiki certification that I can use on patients. I get acupuncture for chronic pain in my legs. After continuing to write you, Riotgirl, about your plan on what you'd do to protect your students, rather than just yourself, you have continued to deflect the questions. I have already said that whatever one feels is right for them, is fine, unless you work with the public.
And I felt like I was providing you with the steps I was taking to keep my students from getting ill but it felt like since my steps didn't coincide with what you (and others) felt like I should be doing then I was selfish and irresponsible. No one really ever addressed any of my points made, such as the gut biome, and how this affects your immune system. What responsibility do you bear when you get the flu shot and it fails? My friend is a NICU nurse and feels the exact same way you do about all vaccines and public safety. However, all 5 members of her family contracted the flu in December and she knew her husband most likely had the flu and sent her kids to play with mine. She assumed that they were all protected because they had the flu shot. What will you do if your vaccine doesn't work? Will you wear a mask just in case you DO get sick? Don't we all make the best choices we can with the information available? I'm glad you have investigated alternative medicine and feel comfortable utilizing it in your practice and for yourself.(and the others that have mentioned it as well). I do not feel comfortable with the rather one sided studies that have been conducted on vaccine safety and effectiveness. That info-graphic above? It presents only a portion of the reason for the rise in these diseases and makes it seem like the only possible explanation is the anti-vaxxers. It is a complicated topic and science isn't infallible.
My apologies (and thank you for your apology, I appreciate it) if the bully comment was out of line but I felt bullied by you and several others who made it clear that the only way to protect everyone is through mass vaccination regardless of issues that arise about their safety and effectiveness. All I want is the ability to question safety and effectiveness and in the current climate that is not possible - why is that?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
But as in the case of the rise of measles and mumps, the failure of some to get vaccinated increases the risk of the whole population. And the H1N1 swine flu is more virulent than the average flu.
so ... you can't let people make their own decisions!? ... what proof do you have that me not getting vaccinated is increasing the risk to the whole population?
if anything - if you are correct and the flu shot works ... then anyone who has taken it will not get affected by me and that the only people it should affect are those (50+% here in canada) who chose not to get one ...
i can't believe you actually brought up the spanish flu ... you do know that if they had the same treatments (not vaccines) now back then - the majority of those people would have survived?
Just curious can the flu virus mutate into a much stronger virus? Mush like how the super bugs have rendered anti biotics useless in some cases. Is possible by vaccinating completely healthy people that we are weakening our immune system? Can we trust the info that doctors gives? Pharmacist? Pharmaceutical companies? I think people should make decisions thats best for themselves. As for me ... no flu shot.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Just curious can the flu virus mutate into a much stronger virus? Mush like how the super bugs have rendered anti biotics useless in some cases. Is possible by vaccinating completely healthy people that we are weakening our immune system? Can we trust the info that doctors gives? Pharmacist? Pharmaceutical companies? I think people should make decisions thats best for themselves. As for me ... no flu shot.
for sure ... and we already know that the flu vaccine is designed to target a particular strain ... if you happen to catch another strain - studies show that your impacts are gonna be much worse ... example this year's vaccine is geared towards H1N1 - if you get H1N2 ... your symptoms will be much worse ...
the thing that also is screwy is that you can't totally trust gov't agencies like the CDC ... anything that is run by the gov't is generally a shill for industry which is why so many of these groups from the FDA to the EPA all have like former industry execs running them ...
But as in the case of the rise of measles and mumps, the failure of some to get vaccinated increases the risk of the whole population. And the H1N1 swine flu is more virulent than the average flu.
so ... you can't let people make their own decisions!? ... what proof do you have that me not getting vaccinated is increasing the risk to the whole population?
if anything - if you are correct and the flu shot works ... then anyone who has taken it will not get affected by me and that the only people it should affect are those (50+% here in canada) who chose not to get one ...
i can't believe you actually brought up the spanish flu ... you do know that if they had the same treatments (not vaccines) now back then - the majority of those people would have survived?
As I wrote before: I stated before that my husband doesn't generally take a flu shot. Because I have asthma, I do. You have every right in the world to make your own health decisions. But as in the case of the rise of measles and mumps, the failure of some to get vaccinated increases the risk of the whole population. And the H1N1 swine flu is more virulent than the average flu.
My brother in law had every treatment that we have available, that was not available during the spanish flu. Antibiotics, antivirals, ventilator, brain wave monitor, EKG, IV nutrition, a special bed, foley catheter, kidney dialysis, sedation drugs, paralytics, you name it, he had it. He, with his family sitting vigil, spent his last 2 weeks in the intensive care unit in a major hospital, as did my cousins high school best friend, aged 43, BTW. And I know of a 38 y.o. friend of a friend who are all just as dead as they would have been in 1918, with every known medical treatment available. No more sunsets, no more birds chirping, no more soft, lingering kisses, never getting to bounce another baby on his knee. Dead, cold, in the ground. I will never get to hear another one of his funny stories, or see him smile.
Vaccines do mutate, and they learn to fight the medications that kill them, as do bacteria. Some flu viruses are learning to make enzymes that fight drugs like Tamiflu. Although the viruses this year are not doing that in the cases that have been reported. The vaccine is very well matched to the strain that is circulating and killing people.
I am truly done with this now. I know I can't win Polaris. So I will concede. "You're right, you're right, of course, you're right." I just wonder if your "studies" are done by the same doc who "proved" that the MMR causes autism., which is a contributing factor to the fact that childhood diseases that were almost knocked off the map are now coming back with a vengeance. Oh, and here are a few sources, that still are not on board with you. Good luck to you. upworthy.com/all-of-your-reasons-to-not-get-a-flu-shot-are-horribly-wrong-also-really-dangero
Thank you for posting, oceaninmyeyes. I am so sorry for your loss. This H1N1 is a nasty killer. I won't debate the flu shot here. I spent the past decade not getting a flu shot, for all kinds of different reasons. But this year I got one (just a couple of weeks ago). My best friend, also middle aged, contracted N1H1 probably around Friday, Jan 3. We were at a concert together. He was fine over the weekend. Went home from work early on Monday. Stayed home Tuesday with a fever. Saw a doctor on Wednesday. They took one look at him and called an ambulance. Was rushed to the ER and much like your brother-in-law, went through aggressive treatments of antibiotics, tamiflu, ventilator, sedation, feeding tubes, a bed that rotated 180 degrees horizontally every 8 hours so he'd be face down half the day, etc... Unlike your brother-in-law, he has been making a recovery. Off of sedation and conscious after 14 days of being under, vent tube out after 15 days. He's got a hell of a hill still to climb with physical therapy, speech therapy, the lingering effects of pneumonia, a MRSA-like blood infection, and other issues. But he's alive, and I know he'll get better. Spent much of this weekend with him at the hospital and just hearing his quiet, slurred speech made my heart soar.
He went into the ER on a Wednesday, and after seeing him on death's doorstep that Thursday morning I went straight out and got my flu shot. I'll be getting one every year from now on.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
As I wrote before: I stated before that my husband doesn't generally take a flu shot. Because I have asthma, I do. You have every right in the world to make your own health decisions. But as in the case of the rise of measles and mumps, the failure of some to get vaccinated increases the risk of the whole population. And the H1N1 swine flu is more virulent than the average flu.
My brother in law had every treatment that we have available, that was not available during the spanish flu. Antibiotics, antivirals, ventilator, brain wave monitor, EKG, IV nutrition, a special bed, foley catheter, kidney dialysis, sedation drugs, paralytics, you name it, he had it. He, with his family sitting vigil, spent his last 2 weeks in the intensive care unit in a major hospital, as did my cousins high school best friend, aged 43, BTW. And I know of a 38 y.o. friend of a friend who are all just as dead as they would have been in 1918, with every known medical treatment available. No more sunsets, no more birds chirping, no more soft, lingering kisses, never getting to bounce another baby on his knee. Dead, cold, in the ground. I will never get to hear another one of his funny stories, or see him smile.
Vaccines do mutate, and they learn to fight the medications that kill them, as do bacteria. Some flu viruses are learning to make enzymes that fight drugs like Tamiflu. Although the viruses this year are not doing that in the cases that have been reported. The vaccine is very well matched to the strain that is circulating and killing people.
I am truly done with this now. I know I can't win Polaris. So I will concede. "You're right, you're right, of course, you're right." I just wonder if your "studies" are done by the same doc who "proved" that the MMR causes autism., which is a contributing factor to the fact that childhood diseases that were almost knocked off the map are now coming back with a vengeance. Oh, and here are a few sources, that still are not on board with you. Good luck to you. upworthy.com/all-of-your-reasons-to-not-get-a-flu-shot-are-horribly-wrong-also-really-dangero
first of all - it's not about being right ... if you read my posts clearly - you will see I am simply advocating people make their own informed choices ... what i protest is when people are claiming things like because I chose not to take the shot I am putting people at risk ...
secondly ... i'm sorry you have felt the loss of people close to you because of the flu ... but there are contributing factors to every case of death that doesn't get addressed ...
thirdly ... again - i'm not treating anything produced by the CDC as gospel ... does it not bother you that the CDC pushes Vaccines ... controls the information that is available to the public and that the former director of the CDC now works for a major vaccine company!??
your 2nd and 3rd links aren't working for me
it's easy to believe everything when it's all controlled from one source ... again - you have every right to make your own decisions ... i would just ask that you don't try and guilt me for my own decisions ...
Thank you for posting, oceaninmyeyes. I am so sorry for your loss. This H1N1 is a nasty killer. I won't debate the flu shot here. I spent the past decade not getting a flu shot, for all kinds of different reasons. But this year I got one (just a couple of weeks ago). My best friend, also middle aged, contracted N1H1 probably around Friday, Jan 3. We were at a concert together. He was fine over the weekend. Went home from work early on Monday. Stayed home Tuesday with a fever. Saw a doctor on Wednesday. They took one look at him and called an ambulance. Was rushed to the ER and much like your brother-in-law, went through aggressive treatments of antibiotics, tamiflu, ventilator, sedation, feeding tubes, a bed that rotated 180 degrees horizontally every 8 hours so he'd be face down half the day, etc... Unlike your brother-in-law, he has been making a recovery. Off of sedation and conscious after 14 days of being under, vent tube out after 15 days. He's got a hell of a hill still to climb with physical therapy, speech therapy, the lingering effects of pneumonia, a MRSA-like blood infection, and other issues. But he's alive, and I know he'll get better. Spent much of this weekend with him at the hospital and just hearing his quiet, slurred speech made my heart soar.
He went into the ER on a Wednesday, and after seeing him on death's doorstep that Thursday morning I went straight out and got my flu shot. I'll be getting one every year from now on.
Wow jeffbr - that story sounds hauntingly familiar. I am so glad that your friend is recovering, and yes, he does still have a hell of a hill to climb. It is so awesome that you can be there to help him through that. The tears are streaming down my face, but I am so happy for you. Best wishes to him and give him a hug for me. Will you keep us posted as to how he is doing? Please?
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
If you're pointing the finger at me for the "bully" behavior you're talking about? You've got to be kidding me (aside of me saying that you should be ashamed, I apologize for that).
I have explored alternative meds and currently have a level 2 reiki certification that I can use on patients. I get acupuncture for chronic pain in my legs. After continuing to write you, Riotgirl, about your plan on what you'd do to protect your students, rather than just yourself, you have continued to deflect the questions. I have already said that whatever one feels is right for them, is fine, unless you work with the public.
And I felt like I was providing you with the steps I was taking to keep my students from getting ill but it felt like since my steps didn't coincide with what you (and others) felt like I should be doing then I was selfish and irresponsible. No one really ever addressed any of my points made, such as the gut biome, and how this affects your immune system. What responsibility do you bear when you get the flu shot and it fails? My friend is a NICU nurse and feels the exact same way you do about all vaccines and public safety. However, all 5 members of her family contracted the flu in December and she knew her husband most likely had the flu and sent her kids to play with mine. She assumed that they were all protected because they had the flu shot. What will you do if your vaccine doesn't work? Will you wear a mask just in case you DO get sick? Don't we all make the best choices we can with the information available? I'm glad you have investigated alternative medicine and feel comfortable utilizing it in your practice and for yourself.(and the others that have mentioned it as well). I do not feel comfortable with the rather one sided studies that have been conducted on vaccine safety and effectiveness. That info-graphic above? It presents only a portion of the reason for the rise in these diseases and makes it seem like the only possible explanation is the anti-vaxxers. It is a complicated topic and science isn't infallible.
My apologies (and thank you for your apology, I appreciate it) if the bully comment was out of line but I felt bullied by you and several others who made it clear that the only way to protect everyone is through mass vaccination regardless of issues that arise about their safety and effectiveness. All I want is the ability to question safety and effectiveness and in the current climate that is not possible - why is that?
I've said what my responsibility is when I get sick, whether it's the flu or not. STAY HOME. Wash my hands constantly and sanitize the house. Like anyone should do when they're sick. It's too bad your friend thinks that getting the flu shot means that air-born germs mean nothing, that simply sounds absurd and I won't let my daughter play at others' house when she's around sick germs, nor do I let kids come to my house if they have sick germs. I had one friend over on Christmas night who coughed all over a birthday cake. I wrapped the rest up and sent it home with him. Just because we tend to be around idiots gives us no excuse to generalize the rest of us.
If I had to wear a mask? Yes, I would. But would you? Being around students every day? You still haven't answered that one. I still get the overall feeling from everyone's posts here is that we're either thinking of OURSELVES ONLY and the CPC and FDA controlling our lives, and then there's those of us who care about immunizing, either because a loved one suffered, or because we are looking out for our patients. Why does it have to be an either or situation? It is certainly NOT black and white. Measles, Mumps and Whopping Cough, FACTUALLY, have resurfaced with the choice of not immunizing children. That's a fact. The Flu shot isn't perfect, of course, but does have advantages. When it's only our family that's affected I suppose.
BTW, I don't subscribe to the victim mentality for anything. It's fine to question, I'm all for questioning everything out there. But when it's my line of work dealing with patients, the public, students... I stop considering myself to be the one reason for my actions. It's in taking care of others, and weighing that importance along side and equal to us as individuals. Can you get that? Will you wear a mask for the sake of the students? And yourself? If it came down to it?
But as in the case of the rise of measles and mumps, the failure of some to get vaccinated increases the risk of the whole population.
Why is it that this fact is so difficult to accept for some? It affects the rest of us. And believe it or not, the flu shot, as controversial as it may be, impacts the rest of the population as well. It's not about conspiracy, it's not about control, it's not about me and me only. it's about public health and keeping the rest of the public healthy.
Why is it that this fact is so difficult to accept for some? It affects the rest of us. And believe it or not, the flu shot, as controversial as it may be, impacts the rest of the population as well. It's not about conspiracy, it's not about control, it's not about me and me only. it's about public health and keeping the rest of the public healthy.
explain to me how if I don't get the flu shot - you are at risk as someone who did take it?
Comments
studies have come out recently saying the use of aspirin and ibuprofen to suppress fever related to flu symptoms is bad and that the flu vaccines actually makes it worse ... and also, they've recalled these vaccines ... how would you feel if you got injected with something that's been recalled?
listen - if someone wants to put all their health and faith on conventional medicine - that's their prerogative but there is plenty of legitimate information out there to warrant others making other choices ...
* wash your hands
* stay home when you're sick
What responsibility do YOU provide to keep me safe when you contract a form of the influenza virus that is not covered by this years vaccine? Do you always wear a face mask when you leave your home? If not you should, as this years vaccine does not cover all viral mutations that are present in this year's outbreak.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I think in the fall of 2012 flu vaccines were recalled but none currently.
Source: telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9645544/Thousand-of-flu-vaccines-recalled.html
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
from the moment spent time with my nephews and help my sister to babysit them when needed, i need to protect them in case i got the flu
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I am an RN. And last night I was discussing this with a friend, who works with drug development at a university here. We talked about her mother who has epilepsy who got this flu and was hospitalized but pulled through, and now her father has the illness. We talked about bacterial resistance to antibiotics. Tuberculosis is multi-drug resistant and is on the rise. We talked about a patient in a nearby city with drug resistant TB and had had it for years. The bacteria worked its way through his body and came out in an abscess on his behind. They had to surgically remove his lung, ribs, and the tunnel that the bacteria ate throughout his torso. My brother-in-law had secondary bacterial infections. Getting the flu makes you more susceptible to bacteria. Bacteria are evolving with enzymes that allow them to fight the antibiotic miracles that we have had since WWII. If we don't vaccinate and someone comes into contact with a drug-resistant bacteria, then what? Do we just give them the sucks to be you salute? Measles and mumps which were nearly eradicated with vaccines, but are on the rise again, because people are afraid of vaccines.
Good frequent handwashing, and taking good care of yourself to keep up your immune system are obviously the first lines of defense. But sometimes those defenses aren't enough.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I work in public health. I'm expected--not required--to have a flu shot and I'd get one yearly even if that weren't the case. For many years I never got one. After a very serious bout with the flu 12 years ago, I started getting one annually and haven't had the flu since. I believe that the flu shot has better odds than a "crap shoot" but that's based on my experience, not what Big Pharma/Big Brother/whomever tells me. I have a health history that has given me a fair amount of skepticism of the medical establishment but that I believe has made me a good consumer when it comes to my health care.
People have a right not to get vaccinations and I respect that. The fact that others of us chose to get a flu shot or other vaccinations does not make us sheeples who blindly accept whatever we are told. Every time I've seen a thread here about flu shots or any other vaccines, I've been bothered by many posts with a tone of superiority from those who disdain vaccinations. If we're going to have a reasonable discussion about the topic, let's please don't belittle each other's views about what we consider best for our own health.
Whether you chose to get a flu shot or not, I'd encourage you to wash your hands frequently (your best defense against many kinds of infections). For the situations where you can't wash your hands, carry some Purell, which will kill many germs without decreasing resistance to bacteria.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I have explored alternative meds and currently have a level 2 reiki certification that I can use on patients. I get acupuncture for chronic pain in my legs. After continuing to write you, Riotgirl, about your plan on what you'd do to protect your students, rather than just yourself, you have continued to deflect the questions. I have already said that whatever one feels is right for them, is fine, unless you work with the public.
My apologies (and thank you for your apology, I appreciate it) if the bully comment was out of line but I felt bullied by you and several others who made it clear that the only way to protect everyone is through mass vaccination regardless of issues that arise about their safety and effectiveness. All I want is the ability to question safety and effectiveness and in the current climate that is not possible - why is that?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
if anything - if you are correct and the flu shot works ... then anyone who has taken it will not get affected by me and that the only people it should affect are those (50+% here in canada) who chose not to get one ...
i can't believe you actually brought up the spanish flu ... you do know that if they had the same treatments (not vaccines) now back then - the majority of those people would have survived?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
the thing that also is screwy is that you can't totally trust gov't agencies like the CDC ... anything that is run by the gov't is generally a shill for industry which is why so many of these groups from the FDA to the EPA all have like former industry execs running them ...
My brother in law had every treatment that we have available, that was not available during the spanish flu. Antibiotics, antivirals, ventilator, brain wave monitor, EKG, IV nutrition, a special bed, foley catheter, kidney dialysis, sedation drugs, paralytics, you name it, he had it. He, with his family sitting vigil, spent his last 2 weeks in the intensive care unit in a major hospital, as did my cousins high school best friend, aged 43, BTW. And I know of a 38 y.o. friend of a friend who are all just as dead as they would have been in 1918, with every known medical treatment available. No more sunsets, no more birds chirping, no more soft, lingering kisses, never getting to bounce another baby on his knee. Dead, cold, in the ground. I will never get to hear another one of his funny stories, or see him smile.
Vaccines do mutate, and they learn to fight the medications that kill them, as do bacteria. Some flu viruses are learning to make enzymes that fight drugs like Tamiflu. Although the viruses this year are not doing that in the cases that have been reported. The vaccine is very well matched to the strain that is circulating and killing people.
I am truly done with this now. I know I can't win Polaris. So I will concede. "You're right, you're right, of course, you're right." I just wonder if your "studies" are done by the same doc who "proved" that the MMR causes autism., which is a contributing factor to the fact that childhood diseases that were almost knocked off the map are now coming back with a vengeance. Oh, and here are a few sources, that still are not on board with you. Good luck to you.
upworthy.com/all-of-your-reasons-to-not-get-a-flu-shot-are-horribly-wrong-also-really-dangero
http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2013/01/not-getting-a-flu-shot
http://nbcnews.com/health/dont-be-selfish-get-flu-shot-protect-most-vulnerable-bioethicist-1B7944163
He went into the ER on a Wednesday, and after seeing him on death's doorstep that Thursday morning I went straight out and got my flu shot. I'll be getting one every year from now on.
secondly ... i'm sorry you have felt the loss of people close to you because of the flu ... but there are contributing factors to every case of death that doesn't get addressed ...
thirdly ... again - i'm not treating anything produced by the CDC as gospel ... does it not bother you that the CDC pushes Vaccines ... controls the information that is available to the public and that the former director of the CDC now works for a major vaccine company!??
your 2nd and 3rd links aren't working for me
it's easy to believe everything when it's all controlled from one source ... again - you have every right to make your own decisions ... i would just ask that you don't try and guilt me for my own decisions ...
If I had to wear a mask? Yes, I would. But would you? Being around students every day? You still haven't answered that one. I still get the overall feeling from everyone's posts here is that we're either thinking of OURSELVES ONLY and the CPC and FDA controlling our lives, and then there's those of us who care about immunizing, either because a loved one suffered, or because we are looking out for our patients. Why does it have to be an either or situation? It is certainly NOT black and white. Measles, Mumps and Whopping Cough, FACTUALLY, have resurfaced with the choice of not immunizing children. That's a fact. The Flu shot isn't perfect, of course, but does have advantages. When it's only our family that's affected I suppose.
BTW, I don't subscribe to the victim mentality for anything. It's fine to question, I'm all for questioning everything out there. But when it's my line of work dealing with patients, the public, students... I stop considering myself to be the one reason for my actions. It's in taking care of others, and weighing that importance along side and equal to us as individuals. Can you get that? Will you wear a mask for the sake of the students? And yourself? If it came down to it?
Why is it that this fact is so difficult to accept for some? It affects the rest of us. And believe it or not, the flu shot, as controversial as it may be, impacts the rest of the population as well. It's not about conspiracy, it's not about control, it's not about me and me only. it's about public health and keeping the rest of the public healthy.