I caught a glimpse of what I believe was a Tesla the other day. The license plate read "NOE OIL".
You'll still need oil to make that vehicle...But still a step in the right direction.
That's the most compelling reason supporting the sustainable energy movement. The greatest folly of history will be that we burned all our oil for energy and didn't save any for the thousands of uses that are vital to modern medicine, science, and comfortable living. Fossil fuels are magical chemistry materials that won't easily be replicated. We can't make MRI machines out of sunlight, we can't turn wind into lifesaving dialysis machines, and we won't be able convert tidal, geothermal, or wave energy into polymers and alloys.
True dat. Although I can't imagine that scientists won't eventually find some way to replace oil in manufacturing too.... it's mostly used for plastics and certain other chemical materials (there are tons of them, including asphalt, which is important), and lubricating machinery, no? I read that about 1/2 of a barrel of oil (in the average sense of course) goes to gasoline, another 1/3 of it goes to jet fuel and diesel, and the rest of it (so not all that much, actually) goes to everything else. If we can stop using gasoline, we've already solved half the problem. That is significant! And if we can get a stop further by replacing diesel too, even better. Not sure we should be in a huge hurry to replace jet fuel just for safety reasons/the pace of air travel technology, but eventually....
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
I caught a glimpse of what I believe was a Tesla the other day. The license plate read "NOE OIL".
You'll still need oil to make that vehicle...But still a step in the right direction.
That's the most compelling reason supporting the sustainable energy movement. The greatest folly of history will be that we burned all our oil for energy and didn't save any for the thousands of uses that are vital to modern medicine, science, and comfortable living. Fossil fuels are magical chemistry materials that won't easily be replicated. We can't make MRI machines out of sunlight, we can't turn wind into lifesaving dialysis machines, and we won't be able convert tidal, geothermal, or wave energy into polymers and alloys.
True dat. Although I can't imagine that scientists won't eventually find some way to replace oil in manufacturing too.... it's mostly used for plastics and certain other chemical materials (there are tons of them, including asphalt, which is important), and lubricating machinery, no? I read that about 1/2 of a barrel of oil (in the average sense of course) goes to gasoline, another 1/3 of it goes to jet fuel and diesel, and the rest of it (so not all that much, actually) goes to everything else. If we can stop using gasoline, we've already solved half the problem. That is significant! And if we can get a stop further by replacing diesel too, even better. Not sure we should be in a huge hurry to replace jet fuel just for safety reasons/the pace of air travel technology, but eventually....
Yes, it is both imperative to move from oil and difficult. For example, my understanding is that we still have not solved what is called "the solar power paradox" which basically informs that much oil and toxic materials are used to produce solar panels. I think technology will help solve many of the energy problems we face but it also seems that we need to conserve more than we are to buy us time to come up with these solutions. I hope the trajectories of oil depletion, climate change and energy alternatives align themselves in time and it makes sense that conserving would certainly go a long way toward that end.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
For any of you who are among the 30% of Americans (30%!!... only in America) who do not believe in global warming (can we stop wussing out by calling it "climate change?"):
For any of you who are among the 30% of Americans (30%!!... only in America) who do not believe in global warming (can we stop wussing out by calling it "climate change?"):
I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right?
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brianlux
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For any of you who are among the 30% of Americans (30%!!... only in America) who do not believe in global warming (can we stop wussing out by calling it "climate change?"):
I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right?
Haha! Or as Neil Young, on an unusually warm day a few years ago said, "Hope you're enjoying the nice weather out there folks"... and then I'm pretty sure he did a
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right?
it should be called global warming because that is the crux of the problem ... climate change is but one symptom, albeit the biggest one, of global warming ... but rising sea levels, changes in oceanic chemistry, etc ... are also symptoms ...
it should also be called global warming because the solution to the problem is to stop the warming ...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right?
it should be called global warming because that is the crux of the problem ... climate change is but one symptom, albeit the biggest one, of global warming ... but rising sea levels, changes in oceanic chemistry, etc ... are also symptoms ...
it should also be called global warming because the solution to the problem is to stop the warming ...
I agree and I don't want to suggest that rhetoric is the crux of the matter but I sometimes wonder if the change in language was not intentional. "Climate Change" has a softer sound to it than "Global Warming". Language is powerful and used by very clever people to sway opinion. Republican political strategist/ global warming denier Frank Luntz advocated for the term "climate change" because it sounds less frightening than "global warming".
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right?
it should be called global warming because that is the crux of the problem ... climate change is but one symptom, albeit the biggest one, of global warming ... but rising sea levels, changes in oceanic chemistry, etc ... are also symptoms ...
it should also be called global warming because the solution to the problem is to stop the warming ...
I agree and I don't want to suggest that rhetoric is the crux of the matter but I sometimes wonder if the change in language was not intentional. "Climate Change" has a softer sound to it than "Global Warming". Language is powerful and used by very clever people to sway opinion. Republican political strategist/ global warming denier Frank Luntz advocated for the term "climate change" because it sounds less frightening than "global warming".
the problem with catering to the lowest common denominator is that you end up with legislation like in Mississippi and North Carolina ... you let the wrong people dictate everything ...
I was reading an article yesterday on sustainable architecture. one of the things it mentioned was that the electricity used to power ALL the air conditioning in the USA is greater than that used to power the entire continent of Africa. I found that quite disturbing.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
I was reading an article yesterday on sustainable architecture. one of the things it mentioned was that the electricity used to power ALL the air conditioning in the USA is greater than that used to power the entire continent of Africa. I found that quite disturbing.
Holy shi.....
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
I was reading an article yesterday on sustainable architecture. one of the things it mentioned was that the electricity used to power ALL the air conditioning in the USA is greater than that used to power the entire continent of Africa. I found that quite disturbing.
Here's what looks like a reliable reference to that disturbing bit of not-trivia (third paragraph of article):
"The United States has long consumed more energy each year for air conditioning than the rest of the world combined. In fact, we use more electricity for cooling than the entire continent of Africa, home to a billion people, consumes for all purposes. Between 1993 and 2005, with summers growing hotter and homes larger, energy consumed by residential air conditioning in the U.S. doubled, and it leaped another 20 percent by 2010. The climate impact of air conditioning our buildings and vehicles is now that of almost half a billion metric tons of carbon dioxide per year."
And that was almost four years ago. Good grief!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
the article I was reading also said that australia has the only pure bee population in the world and if all the bees in the world were to die we'd have just 4 years of food to live on. and you know what.. we used to have a lot of bees visit the tree that grows just outside our back door but these past few years I haven't seen them... it could be a simple case of their hive being moved elsewhere or....
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brianlux
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It was hard to avoid honey bees when I was a kid. They were all over the place. I hardly ever see them anymore. There are other pollinators... and I was just wondering- will they help? So I found this:
"We can't rely on the honeybee forever," says Blair Sampson, an entomologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). That's a problem, given that entomologists have yet to come up with a viable alternative. But researchers report that another bee known as the blue orchard, or Osmia lignaria, holds out promise of filling in the void."
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It was hard to avoid honey bees when I was a kid. They were all over the place. I hardly ever see them anymore. There are other pollinators... and I was just wondering- will they help? So I found this:
"We can't rely on the honeybee forever," says Blair Sampson, an entomologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). That's a problem, given that entomologists have yet to come up with a viable alternative. But researchers report that another bee known as the blue orchard, or Osmia lignaria, holds out promise of filling in the void."
how is it that it falls to entomologists to find a viable alternative to something that is so natural? oh hell lets not try and do all we can to protect and save the honey bee, lets just continue destroyers their environment and find another pollinator. simple. ugh. humans are so friggin' arrogant at times its blinding.
our local suburban council allows backyard bee hives but you have to apply so that your bee hive doesn't encroach on anothers territory. if theres already one close then youre out of luck.
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It was hard to avoid honey bees when I was a kid. They were all over the place. I hardly ever see them anymore. There are other pollinators... and I was just wondering- will they help? So I found this:
"We can't rely on the honeybee forever," says Blair Sampson, an entomologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). That's a problem, given that entomologists have yet to come up with a viable alternative. But researchers report that another bee known as the blue orchard, or Osmia lignaria, holds out promise of filling in the void."
how is it that it falls to entomologists to find a viable alternative to something that is so natural? oh hell lets not try and do all we can to protect and save the honey bee, lets just continue destroyers their environment and find another pollinator. simple. ugh. humans are so friggin' arrogant at times its blinding.
our local suburban council allows backyard bee hives but you have to apply so that your bee hive doesn't encroach on anothers territory. if theres already one close then youre out of luck.
couldn't agree more ... hey - we are killing the bees that we rely on for life on this planet ... let's see if anyone else wants the job! ...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
Good point Cate. Excellent point. It really illustrates our tendency to always look for a way around an environmental concern rather than look at it honestly and realistically. We humans think we are clever enough to continue to alter nature, extract beyond what the earth has to give, expand out population beyond a reasonable number and expect to somehow have it all our way.
On another note- today is "Earth Day". I notice we do not have an Earth Day thread. And I hve not started one because, in what my be a selfish and immature response, I do not celebrate Earth Day. That's because for me, everyday is Earth Day. Not a day goes by that I don't think about the earth and thank Mother Nature for sustenance and beauty and feel concern for the health of the planet. Sometimes I wonder if I should be less selfish and participate on this day.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
B, as someone mentioned to GF on his Prince thread, venture into other forums.
It's there.
Haha, yeah, I saw it there on AET and went to the defense of Prius owners. Now there's irony for you. I supposed environmental fanatic (me) defending a machine on an earth day thread. I think I need more coffee this morning.
Looking forward to a few no-drive days on my days off!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I wrote a response to what you wrote about Prius owners but thankfully saved it as a draft
Hey, sock it to me, baby! No, seriously, my intent is not to defend any choice of vehicle, not even the Prius or Tesla, and although to my knowledge those two vehicle choices are some of the best in terms of least environmental impact, they are still cars and they are problematic for the environment for a number of reasons:
They use oil and plastic is oil. Because they are manufactured, they pollute. Because they have tires and the friction of tires on roads releases cadmium, they are toxic. They incorporate heavy metals and those metals are often mined and shipped long distances cause further pollution. All makes of cars, including the Prius, kill animals and people. A lot of mining goes into extracting the resources that are used to build automobiles. They cause noise pollution. Etc., ad nauseam.
Don't worry, I make no pretense and have no false illusion that the Prius will "save the environment". But if you drive (most of us do; all hail PJ_Soul who does not!) and you are concerned about the environment, perhaps choose your vehicle wisely.
Even more helpful is to take as many no-drive days as possible, ride share, combine as many errands per outing as possible, etc. That's what I do anyway but I'm not here to tell others what to do, just to make suggestions. I too am an environmental sinner.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Good point Cate. Excellent point. It really illustrates our tendency to always look for a way around an environmental concern rather than look at it honestly and realistically. We humans think we are clever enough to continue to alter nature, extract beyond what the earth has to give, expand out population beyond a reasonable number and expect to somehow have it all our way.
On another note- today is "Earth Day". I notice we do not have an Earth Day thread. And I hve not started one because, in what my be a selfish and immature response, I do not celebrate Earth Day. That's because for me, everyday is Earth Day. Not a day goes by that I don't think about the earth and thank Mother Nature for sustenance and beauty and feel concern for the health of the planet. Sometimes I wonder if I should be less selfish and participate on this day.
We don't celebrate it either. We live an Earth life. We are elitists lol I look at the people who go to the park on Earth Day and feel good about it with light hearted contempt lol
I wrote a response to what you wrote about Prius owners but thankfully saved it as a draft
Hey, sock it to me, baby! No, seriously, my intent is not to defend any choice of vehicle, not even the Prius or Tesla, and although to my knowledge those two vehicle choices are some of the best in terms of least environmental impact, they are still cars and they are problematic for the environment for a number of reasons:
They use oil and plastic is oil. Because they are manufactured, they pollute. Because they have tires and the friction of tires on roads releases cadmium, they are toxic. They incorporate heavy metals and those metals are often mined and shipped long distances cause further pollution. All makes of cars, including the Prius, kill animals and people. A lot of mining goes into extracting the resources that are used to build automobiles. They cause noise pollution. Etc., ad nauseam.
Don't worry, I make no pretense and have no false illusion that the Prius will "save the environment". But if you drive (most of us do; all hail PJ_Soul who does not!) and you are concerned about the environment, perhaps choose your vehicle wisely.
Even more helpful is to take as many no-drive days as possible, ride share, combine as many errands per outing as possible, etc. That's what I do anyway but I'm not here to tell others what to do, just to make suggestions. I too am an environmental sinner.
Though there's lots of pollution and resources consumed making electrics they will last longer and need far fewer parts to keep running.
I wrote a response to what you wrote about Prius owners but thankfully saved it as a draft
Hey, sock it to me, baby! No, seriously, my intent is not to defend any choice of vehicle, not even the Prius or Tesla, and although to my knowledge those two vehicle choices are some of the best in terms of least environmental impact, they are still cars and they are problematic for the environment for a number of reasons:
They use oil and plastic is oil. Because they are manufactured, they pollute. Because they have tires and the friction of tires on roads releases cadmium, they are toxic. They incorporate heavy metals and those metals are often mined and shipped long distances cause further pollution. All makes of cars, including the Prius, kill animals and people. A lot of mining goes into extracting the resources that are used to build automobiles. They cause noise pollution. Etc., ad nauseam.
Don't worry, I make no pretense and have no false illusion that the Prius will "save the environment". But if you drive (most of us do; all hail PJ_Soul who does not!) and you are concerned about the environment, perhaps choose your vehicle wisely.
Even more helpful is to take as many no-drive days as possible, ride share, combine as many errands per outing as possible, etc. That's what I do anyway but I'm not here to tell others what to do, just to make suggestions. I too am an environmental sinner.
Though there's lots of pollution and resources consumed making electrics they will last longer and need far fewer parts to keep running.
Yes, Callen, electronics could be made to last a long time but "planned obsolescence" has been the way of industry for several decades. Companies can't make more stuff if things don't break down.
A very skilled mechanic friend told me that the repair shops for certain auto manufacture's (I won't say who since I can't confirm this) complained that the cars were not breaking down quickly enough so the manufacturer went to cheaper parts. Way to go , industry. :eyesrolling:
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/15/politics/sarah-palin-bill-nye-scientist/
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/15/march-temperature-smashes-100-year-global-record
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-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
it should also be called global warming because the solution to the problem is to stop the warming ...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
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-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
take a good look
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http://e360.yale.edu/feature/cooling_a_warming_planet_a_global_air_conditioning_surge/2550/
"The United States has long consumed more energy each year for air conditioning than the rest of the world combined. In fact, we use more electricity for cooling than the entire continent of Africa, home to a billion people, consumes for all purposes. Between 1993 and 2005, with summers growing hotter and homes larger, energy consumed by residential air conditioning in the U.S. doubled, and it leaped another 20 percent by 2010. The climate impact of air conditioning our buildings and vehicles is now that of almost half a billion metric tons of carbon dioxide per year."
And that was almost four years ago. Good grief!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
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http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/other-bee-species-subbing-for-honeybees/
"We can't rely on the honeybee forever," says Blair Sampson, an entomologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). That's a problem, given that entomologists have yet to come up with a viable alternative. But researchers report that another bee known as the blue orchard, or Osmia lignaria, holds out promise of filling in the void."
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
our local suburban council allows backyard bee hives but you have to apply so that your bee hive doesn't encroach on anothers territory. if theres already one close then youre out of luck.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
On another note- today is "Earth Day". I notice we do not have an Earth Day thread. And I hve not started one because, in what my be a selfish and immature response, I do not celebrate Earth Day. That's because for me, everyday is Earth Day. Not a day goes by that I don't think about the earth and thank Mother Nature for sustenance and beauty and feel concern for the health of the planet. Sometimes I wonder if I should be less selfish and participate on this day.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It's there.
Looking forward to a few no-drive days on my days off!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
http://www.climatehustlemovie.com/
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
ya ... let's get the truth about global warming from exxon ... it's twenty fucking sixteen people ...
They use oil and plastic is oil.
Because they are manufactured, they pollute.
Because they have tires and the friction of tires on roads releases cadmium, they are toxic.
They incorporate heavy metals and those metals are often mined and shipped long distances cause further pollution.
All makes of cars, including the Prius, kill animals and people.
A lot of mining goes into extracting the resources that are used to build automobiles.
They cause noise pollution.
Etc., ad nauseam.
Don't worry, I make no pretense and have no false illusion that the Prius will "save the environment". But if you drive (most of us do; all hail PJ_Soul who does not!) and you are concerned about the environment, perhaps choose your vehicle wisely.
Even more helpful is to take as many no-drive days as possible, ride share, combine as many errands per outing as possible, etc. That's what I do anyway but I'm not here to tell others what to do, just to make suggestions. I too am an environmental sinner.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
We are elitists lol
I look at the people who go to the park on Earth Day and feel good about it with light hearted contempt lol
A very skilled mechanic friend told me that the repair shops for certain auto manufacture's (I won't say who since I can't confirm this) complained that the cars were not breaking down quickly enough so the manufacturer went to cheaper parts. Way to go , industry. :eyesrolling:
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say