Global warming

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  • eddiec
    eddiec Posts: 3,959
    Ted Cruz on Climate Change: http://www.npr.org/2015/12/09/459026242/scientific-evidence-doesn-t-support-global-warming-sen-ted-cruz-says
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    eddiec said:

    Ted Cruz on Climate Change: http://www.npr.org/2015/12/09/459026242/scientific-evidence-doesn-t-support-global-warming-sen-ted-cruz-says

    Ted "Head-in-the-Sand" Cruz. :lol:
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    Donald Trump on this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-global-warming_5601d04fe4b08820d91aa753
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Donald Trump on this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-global-warming_5601d04fe4b08820d91aa753

    Trump and climate change. A couple of Yo-Yos. :lol:

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,381
    Ummm yeah.....

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/01/13/its-january-and-a-tropical-storm-has-formed-in-the-atlantic-ocean/?tid=sm_fb

    Nope, nothing to this global warming business, move along folks.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited January 2016
    My nightmare is hearing "President Cruz." Sadly it's a very real possibility.
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    A comment made by Paul Watson that I read recently states that (as important as it is) global warming is not our biggest ecological problem. The statement is in regard to the first law of ecology:

    Law No. 1 The strength of any ecosystem is based on biodiversity.

    With regard to that, Watson said, "The decreased level of biodiversity on the planet is our most serious problem, even more serious than global warming."

    We are in the sixth known major extinction event and this event is caused by humans and is closely related to human over-consumption and unchecked human population. It makes sense to me that global warming is not our most serious problem.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    brianlux said:

    A comment made by Paul Watson that I read recently states that (as important as it is) global warming is not our biggest ecological problem. The statement is in regard to the first law of ecology:

    Law No. 1 The strength of any ecosystem is based on biodiversity.

    With regard to that, Watson said, "The decreased level of biodiversity on the planet is our most serious problem, even more serious than global warming."

    We are in the sixth known major extinction event and this event is caused by humans and is closely related to human over-consumption and unchecked human population. It makes sense to me that global warming is not our most serious problem.

    true ... although the factors contributing most to global warming are the ones killing biodiversity ... which is pretty much industrialized agriculture ...
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    polaris_x said:

    brianlux said:

    A comment made by Paul Watson that I read recently states that (as important as it is) global warming is not our biggest ecological problem. The statement is in regard to the first law of ecology:

    Law No. 1 The strength of any ecosystem is based on biodiversity.

    With regard to that, Watson said, "The decreased level of biodiversity on the planet is our most serious problem, even more serious than global warming."

    We are in the sixth known major extinction event and this event is caused by humans and is closely related to human over-consumption and unchecked human population. It makes sense to me that global warming is not our most serious problem.

    true ... although the factors contributing most to global warming are the ones killing biodiversity ... which is pretty much industrialized agriculture ...
    Also true. There are different takes on the basic laws of ecology including the more famous Barry Commoner 4 Laws of Ecology. The ones that make most sense to me are these three:

    1. THE LAW OF DIVERSITY. ECO-SYSTEMS REQUIRE DIVERSITY.

    2. THE LAW OF INTERDEPENDENCE - ECO-SYSTEMS DEPEND UPON INTERDEPENDENCE OF ALL SPECIES.

    3. THE LAW OF FINITE RESOURCES. THERE IS A LIMIT TO RESOURCES THUS A LIMIT TO GROWTH AND THEREFORE A LIMIT TO CARRYING CAPACITY.

    If we don't abide by these, we perish.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the issue is where is that tipping point where we've reached the point of no return and we reach ecological collapse!?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    polaris_x said:

    the issue is where is that tipping point where we've reached the point of no return and we reach ecological collapse!?

    We may be there already. It's not like the stock market crashing over night or a massive meteor hitting the planet and causing a mass extinction. This extinction event will probably take many years and will be slow in human terms. What I'm advocating for is to do what we can to slow it down and give us and other species a fighting chance for survival.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    http://www.triplepundit.com/2016/01/official-solar-employs-people-oil-gas/?platform=hootsuite&utm_content=buffer49a31&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    What environmental and labor advocates have been claiming for some time now has come true: Solar energy is a bigger source of jobs than fossil fuels – and it’s only going to get better from here on.

    That is according to a new report from the Solar Foundation, which found that by the end of 2015, there were 209,000 workers in the solar industry — more than those employed in oil and gas extraction.

    “The solar industry has once again proven to be a powerful engine of economic growth and job creation,” said Andrea Luecke, president and executive director of the Solar Foundation, in a statement. “Employment in solar has grown an extraordinary 123 percent since 2010, adding approximately 115,000 well-paying jobs.”

    Much of the growth has come from the installation side: the people putting those beautiful panels on residential rooftops, parking structures and commercial buildings across the country. I’m sure you’ve seen them in your neighborhood, too (unless you live in a state where oil and gas lobbies have restricted solar expansion, like Nevada). Sales jobs are also growing.

    On the other side, oil and gas jobs are disappearing. Part of this is due to the wave of bankruptcies in coal — most recently Arch Coal, once one of the biggest energy companies in America. This is due to massive drops in coal prices and the reduction of coal usage, as more and more states shift to cleaner energy. President Barack Obama’s recent move to halt new coal mining on federal lands is only another step in the slow death of coal.

    Oil is seeing a similar wave, as major oil companies cut their exploration and development budgets due to incredibly low oil prices. Last week, they fell below $30 a barrel, a level at which drilling in much of the United States is just not economically feasible.

    The amazing thing, and something no one could have predicted just a few years ago, is that solar is thriving despite the fact that oil and coal prices are so low. Many thought that high fossil fuel prices were necessary for renewables to be able to compete. It turns out they were wrong, which is great news for climate.

    “Solar is providing a tremendous boost to our economy while meeting public demand for clean, affordable energy,” said Andrew Birch, CEO of Sungevity, in a statement.

    Both the Solar Foundation and the U.S. Department of Labor expect solar job growth to remain strong in the coming year, as more and more panels go online. States that promote clean energy will win, while states that continue to ride the dying horse of fossil fuels will be left behind.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    ^^^ Good to see that what some of us have been saying for quite a while is coming to light. Solar alone will not solve all our planetary environmental woes but it's a big step in the right direction!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • otter
    otter Posts: 772
    edited February 2016
    polaris_x said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Never was quite convinced that this global warming was human driven.
    I read this article awhile ago. Resonates with me.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140411153453.htm

    Did you read the article? Did you understand the article? I think not based on your skepticism that global warming is not human driven.
    polaris_x said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Never was quite convinced that this global warming was human driven.
    I read this article awhile ago. Resonates with me.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140411153453.htm

    Did you read the article? Did you understand the article? I think not based on your skepticism that global warming is not human driven.

    We make predictions about the future based on things we observe in the present and imagine the past is irrelevant.

    Post edited by otter on
    I found my place......and it's alright
  • otter
    otter Posts: 772
    In other words...get over yourself.
    I found my place......and it's alright
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    brianlux said:

    ^^^ Good to see that what some of us have been saying for quite a while is coming to light. Solar alone will not solve all our planetary environmental woes but it's a big step in the right direction!

    I don't remember who but someone was talking about the impact of solar in the desert. I think it's ridiculous worries as being a former desert resident…

    I think solar is a GREAT step into the future.

    Also 60 minutes did a great special on the glaciers and global warming tonight!
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    tempo_n_groove said:

    brianlux said:

    ^^^ Good to see that what some of us have been saying for quite a while is coming to light. Solar alone will not solve all our planetary environmental woes but it's a big step in the right direction!

    I don't remember who but someone was talking about the impact of solar in the desert. I think it's ridiculous worries as being a former desert resident…

    I think solar is a GREAT step into the future.

    Also 60 minutes did a great special on the glaciers and global warming tonight!
    Probably was me, haha! At one time I would have thought the same but then a few years back I was talking to a cousin of mine who has been an environmental lawyer (highly underpaid as a lawyer, does it for reasons other than money) and he explained in some detail how destructive to fragile desert ecosystems those massive solar grids are. I'm all for putting solar panels on any and all roofs of any kind (buildings, parking lots, etc) but very disinclined to favor covering delicate soils and fragile ecosystems with any kind of hardware. Also, the road building to put these things up wrecks havoc on said environments.

    Until we start looking at solutions that are good for ecological balances, that respect the laws of ecology and that favor all life in general we will continue to box ourselves and all other large life into a corner with no escape.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited February 2016
    brianlux said:

    tempo_n_groove said:

    brianlux said:

    ^^^ Good to see that what some of us have been saying for quite a while is coming to light. Solar alone will not solve all our planetary environmental woes but it's a big step in the right direction!

    I don't remember who but someone was talking about the impact of solar in the desert. I think it's ridiculous worries as being a former desert resident…

    I think solar is a GREAT step into the future.

    Also 60 minutes did a great special on the glaciers and global warming tonight!
    Probably was me, haha! At one time I would have thought the same but then a few years back I was talking to a cousin of mine who has been an environmental lawyer (highly underpaid as a lawyer, does it for reasons other than money) and he explained in some detail how destructive to fragile desert ecosystems those massive solar grids are. I'm all for putting solar panels on any and all roofs of any kind (buildings, parking lots, etc) but very disinclined to favor covering delicate soils and fragile ecosystems with any kind of hardware. Also, the road building to put these things up wrecks havoc on said environments.

    Until we start looking at solutions that are good for ecological balances, that respect the laws of ecology and that favor all life in general we will continue to box ourselves and all other large life into a corner with no escape.

    On the other side of the coin though, we have to be careful not to destroy the forest to save a tree.
    Those incredibly fragile desert ecosystems are nothing compared to the lush mountains of Appalachia which are being savaged for coal to meet electricity demands.
    The desert ecosystem that is destroyed by solar farms is not even visible to the average observer, but in WV and KY they are destroying hundred+ year old hardwood trees by the tens of thousands and leaving nothing behind but dirt (the soil is gone and what's left is poisoned) and invasive grasses. They are taking away the very tops of the mountains themselves, in a place where the biomass of 1 acre is probably equivalent to 100 acres in the desert.
    Tough choices have to be made, and to me, this one isn't even a tough choice, it's a no-brainer!
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    I don't like the sound of calling one ecosystem superior to another, but the fact is they are not all equal. Some have much more diversity to lose, and much greater consequences of loss than others. If we have to weigh one against another (and we absolutely do), surely the one that is bursting with centenarian beings which inspire CO2 and expire O2 should win out over a crust of seasonal wildflowers and microbes.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    rgambs said:

    I don't like the sound of calling one ecosystem superior to another, but the fact is they are not all equal. Some have much more diversity to lose, and much greater consequences of loss than others. If we have to weigh one against another (and we absolutely do), surely the one that is bursting with centenarian beings which inspire CO2 and expire O2 should win out over a crust of seasonal wildflowers and microbes.

    I would argue that all ecosystems are of equal importance because they are part of a whole. Destroying any ecosystem affects others. If you disrupt vegetation in a desert you increase erosion. This can lead to changes in streams and riparian vegetation and habitat which in turn affects something else down the line. It's all connected. If we argue to disrupt what we deem a lesser environment to maintain our energy usage, we're taking an anthropocentric viewpoint that seeks to maintain our own desires but in the long run do so at our own peril as well as other life. I don't see how destroying desert habitats can be anything but harmful to us in the long run.

    And I would certainly not advocate the continued destruction of forest over protecting desert ecosystems (on an aesthetic level, I happen to be a fan of both environments) and see both as important parts of an even greater whole.

    And yes, what's happened to the Appalachian mountains is deplorable. There's a great book that delves into that deeply called Lost Mountain, A Year in the Vanishing Wilderness by Erik Reece. The destruction to those ecosystems is utterly shocking.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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