What's a living wage?

mickeyrat

unsung wrote:

Eh, I'm against a minimum wage, and I don't see how someone who can't survive on min wage will find $1400 a year before taxes to be the amount that brings them above the line.

Min wage is that for a reason, they have no skills, why do they deserve to be paid so much when all they can do is wash dishes?

this assumes an awful lot about an employee. what about no experience to start? umm, HS diploma only or GED or neither of those? None of that means someone isnt capable of doing more that what you suggest which I know wasnt a blanket statement.

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten wrote:

I always find these arguments interesting.

As if it's really harder to drive a truck, pick up garbage, be a meter maid, etc. than it is to work at McDonald's and be good at what you do.

This economy demands that some people simply take what they can get. It's pathetic that someone could conceivably work two full time jobs at minimum wage and still only make $29,000/year.

stress level with 4 wheelers, myriad fed regulations, paperwork, map reading trip planning, being constantly aware of all sides of the vehicle while soccer mom with her kids in the car cuts you off while she putting on makeup and texting her girlfriends. Backing a 70 foot long articulated vehicle in a spot that just barely fits that trailer from an angle while 4 wheelers cut behind you. Oh lets not forget the deer that seem to really like the grass at the roadside.




fuck just working within the federal hours of service rules is a task in itself!!!!

11 hrs driving within a 14 hour time frame and at or before 8 hours of onduty/driving status you must take a 30 min break.must take 10 hours offduty for rest before driving again, allowed to restart your 70 hr in 8 days clock with a min of 34 hours offduty that includes two time periods of 0100 to 0500. if you can tget your restart in then you recap your hours. meaning the hours you were considered on duty including driving 9 days ago would be regained today. etc etc etc, delays at shippers and receivers who dont give a flying fuck that you only have so much time left to find a place to park. Oh and dont idle that truck ,driver, if its hot you have the side vents open for air and get to smell the baked in urine smell and human feces in plastic shopping bag that fat fuck who was too lazy to even find the trash can so he threw it on the ground

AlOT of knowledge needs to be readily recalled from memory upon inspection which should occur daily both pre and post trip.


the driving forward part is the easy part.

Jason P

Being a meter maid requires a heart as black as coal and a hatred for fellow humanity. :geek:

Gern Blansten

Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking truck drivers.

I guess in my mind I was picturing someone driving a Staples delivery truck rather than long haul trucking but I think you get my point.

I've worked in fast food. I'm currently a CPA with my own business. There are shitty fast food workers and great workers. Shitty truck drivers and great truck drivers, shitty CPAs and great ones, etc.

I can tell you though from some of the tax returns I've done that some long haul drivers get screwed. Long hours and not much net pay once all expenses are paid. Again...not in all cases. I've seen some do very well.

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten wrote:

Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking truck drivers.

I guess in my mind I was picturing someone driving a Staples delivery truck rather than long haul trucking but I think you get my point.

I've worked in fast food. I'm currently a CPA with my own business. There are shitty fast food workers and great workers. Shitty truck drivers and great truck drivers, shitty CPAs and great ones, etc.

I can tell you though from some of the tax returns I've done that some long haul drivers get screwed. Long hours and not much net pay once all expenses are paid. Again...not in all cases. I've seen some do very well.

depends on how diligent a driver is. I need to find a good cpa myself for tax time. have saved some receipts, am home mostly daily so I can only claim so many days full per diem and so many days partial in addition to the receipts I have saved.

Yes drivers get screwed over often and hard. coming going and any way in between.

Question for you,. best search criteria for a good tax preparer that has knowledge of transportation? How should I word the search?

Gern Blansten

Honestly the best thing to do is ask your friends or fellow truck drivers. I would think that most CPAs have a pretty good grasp of the transportation industry....but definitely ask them if they are familiar with it and using per diem rates, etc.

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten wrote:

Honestly the best thing to do is ask your friends or fellow truck drivers. I would think that most CPAs have a pretty good grasp of the transportation industry....but definitely ask them if they are familiar with it and using per diem rates, etc.

biggest headache is going to be going through my logs to find the out of town in the truck days. I halfheartedly tried to keep a journal. to no avail!!

unsung

Walmart welcomes a min wage hike, because it will kill the small business competition.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/12/03/why-w ... in-dcs-min

brianlux

Another way to look at this would be for us to stop supporting toxic fast "food" road kill "restaurants" and reduce our frivolous spending in general and specifically cease our purchasing of cheap worthless plastic shit from places like Walmart and put more people to work doing something useful. And, of course, at the very least, pay everyone a living wage.

People will say, "But the poor need places like Walmart." I disagree. Durable items last longer, impact the planet less and cost less in the long run. Let's teach people how to shop wisely and responsibly. We don't need no stinkin' Walmart!

unsung

I agree with all of that except the mandatory living wage, but because I believe the market would fix the wage situation.

Kudos for being the only person to at least offer a living wage number.

Of course since I'm of the opposite thought I'm a troll. Ah labels, the sign that the argument is lost.

I believe our economy would right itself if people demanded quality made in USA goods instead of demanding the cheapest price.

pjhawks

unsung wrote:

I agree with all of that except the mandatory living wage, but because I believe the market would fix the wage situation.

Kudos for being the only person to at least offer a living wage number.

Of course since I'm of the opposite thought I'm a troll. Ah labels, the sign that the argument is lost.

I believe our economy would right itself if people demanded quality made in USA goods instead of demanding the cheapest price.

if you are making $9.00 an hour you pretty much have to buy what is the cheapest price as opposed to quality goods. you can't have it both ways.

polaris_x

unsung wrote:

I agree with all of that except the mandatory living wage, but because I believe the market would fix the wage situation.

Kudos for being the only person to at least offer a living wage number.

Of course since I'm of the opposite thought I'm a troll. Ah labels, the sign that the argument is lost.

I believe our economy would right itself if people demanded quality made in USA goods instead of demanding the cheapest price.

the problem is that you so readily say the fat cats will get theirs regardless and rail against people making peanuts ... i don't see you posting about ceo's that get million dollar bonuses for driving their company into the ground!? ...

this mythological belief in "market forces" is ridiculous ... you know very well that "market forces" are currently at play in the US ... and what do you have ... a devastated economy where the rich get richer and everyone wants everything cheap ...

unsung

Government price fixing and wage fixing is not the answer.

If the CEO is abusive then don't spend your money there. I haven't been to walmart since 1996. The last two items I bought were made in USA t-shirt and sweatshirt, and I still have both. The company now makes their sweatshirts in Mexico and the quality has suffered. So I no longer spend my money there or buy that company. We have the power.

polaris_x

please come up with examples of where your ideal structure plays out ...

again - why is it that the countries that have the highest standards of living and quality of life all are based on a social infrastructure that supports everyone?

brianlux

unsung wrote:

I agree with all of that except the mandatory living wage, but because I believe the market would fix the wage situation.

Kudos for being the only person to at least offer a living wage number.

Of course since I'm of the opposite thought I'm a troll. Ah labels, the sign that the argument is lost.

I believe our economy would right itself if people demanded quality made in USA goods instead of demanding the cheapest price.

I may sometimes disagree with you, unsung, but I for one have never thought of you as a troll.

know1

unsung wrote:

Let's be honest, corporate fat cats are going to get their cut no matter what. It's irrelevant if their minions make $5/hr or $50/hr, they won't suffer.

Yes I do believe that someone that has invested in themselves should earn more than someone who is 40 and flips burgers part time. I don't think of them as lesser humans, but they don't have skills, and their pay directly reflects that.

If Walmart offered $1/hr would people work there?

If Walmart offered $5/hr would people work there?

So Walmart offers $8/hr (fed min wage iirc) and the jobs fill.

But why? Why does $8 get what $5 can't? Because that's what they can get away with by law. People take those jobs because they know that's all that has to be offered. But I'm asking what if. What if there were no min wage? I think we can agree that nobody would work for $1/hr. What if people held out together for $10/hr? Guess what, Walmart would be forced to pay it. The way it works now all they have to do is offer the min and say take it or leave it.

If there were no min wage the employees would have the bargaining chip because they could hold out for better pay. With the min wage the company has the power, and feels that's all they have to offer. The market works better for the worker when the worker is holding the cards.

Wow. Common sense.

know1

If you want to come up with a living wage, it would stand to reason you should first come up with how much money it takes to live.

Of course, there are people with many more children to support than others, so that becomes difficult as well.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

unsung wrote:

Of course since I'm of the opposite thought I'm a troll. Ah labels, the sign that the argument is lost.

I believe our economy would right itself if people demanded quality made in USA goods instead of demanding the cheapest price.

as to your first statement, I said that because it seemed like all you were doing was feeding an argument for the sake of arguing.

as to your second statement, I couldn't agree more.

lukin2006

So defined skills in some peoples eyes are if your holding a degree, diploma or trade licence ... pretty narrow view if must say. Some people never can catch a break but have plenty of skill, it may not be a higher education, but many do have a skill. These corporations should be able to share their billions in profits with their employees. Really why do CEO's need millions and billions to live off of, why? Why can Costco pay around $21 an hour, Apple retail makes around $15 ... so if these retail companies can make an effort why can't Wal Mart and Mc Donalds?

Unless your a highly skilled person with skills that are in high demand I suggest that those here who possess a college degree that aren't in those jobs might want to get off there high horse, your probably replaceable. My cousin is a tool and die maker he worked at places that saw his jobs shipped overseas.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

unsung wrote:

Yes I do believe that someone that has invested in themselves should earn more than someone who is 40 and flips burgers part time. I don't think of them as lesser humans, but they don't have skills, and their pay directly reflects that.

it's not always that simple. some people have the necessary skills, they just don't have the formal training as those all important designation letters behind their name, which is so over-valued in today's business world it's stupid.

lukin2006

Then if there was no minimum wage ... those that want no minimum wage would bitch and moan about those people being on welfare, food stamps and living in government housing while those corporations make billions in profits. So I guess those who want no minimum wage want the burden shifted from the corporations to the taxpayer ... why?

even flow - question mark

unsung wrote:

If the CEO is abusive then don't spend your money there.

You must be one of those groovy people that get paid cash for a living. No bank needed for you, eh!

I'm starting to think that Bush or Chaney are bored in retirement, like PJ and come to visit their board every once in a while.

unsung

lukin2006 wrote:

Then if there was no minimum wage ... those that want no minimum wage would bitch and moan about those people being on welfare, food stamps and living in government housing while those corporations make billions in profits. So I guess those who want no minimum wage want the burden shifted from the corporations to the taxpayer ... why?

Many already are. A higher minimum wage won't change that.

unsung

Instead of demanding a min wage hike you all should be demanding that the federal reserve stop devaluing the currency through endless quantitative easing and buying bad debt and bailing out banks.

know1

brianlux wrote:

Another way to look at this would be for us to stop supporting toxic fast "food" road kill "restaurants" and reduce our frivolous spending in general and specifically cease our purchasing of cheap worthless plastic shit from places like Walmart and put more people to work doing something useful. And, of course, at the very least, pay everyone a living wage.

People will say, "But the poor need places like Walmart." I disagree. Durable items last longer, impact the planet less and cost less in the long run. Let's teach people how to shop wisely and responsibly. We don't need no stinkin' Walmart!

Who "puts more people to work doing something useful"? How does that happen?

unsung

Cosmo wrote:

...
Can I ask... What do you do for a living?
Why can't your company... the entire market slash your high wages and hire some that is capable of doing your job... for a lot less money?
I am certain that you are not at the top of your field and there are many others willing to wdo the same work.. for less pay.

Certain, are you? Well I'm not divulging my personal information.

I will say that I am highly trained in a sector that the safety of the public is dependent on my diagnostic skills. We have oversight from a multitude of federal agencies. I am subject to FBI background checks on a continual basis, scrutinized by federal departments that verify my qualifications, subject to continual drug testing, psychological exams, interviews by people that are paid to find character flaws, and subject to search at any time while on company property by an armed security force.

You want to farm that out to the lowest bidder? Good luck.

jethrojam420

In MA I would say the lowest living wage with no children would be 10 per hour, and up 2 per hour per kid. And, I assure you, that is the lowest possible no frills life with no government help.

I think to live the American dream you would need a minimum of 30 per hour total (about 62k per year) would be needed per family (and up 3 per child)

I know this much because my family total is about 80k and although we bought a house and have 2 car loans and are treading water at best with one child. Perhaps with a bit more effort we could do a bit better savings wise but its not that easy with a toddler.

For the record I have no degree, and neither does my wife. But, though hard hard work, and maybe a little bit of luck, we both work for companies that pay a living wage. But we started somewhere and I assure you, working for minimum wage was no fun. To put it in a Pearl Jam sense, since this is a 10c board, my membership lapsed in the mid 2000's due to living on a minimum wage salary. So yes, minimum wage is not enough to be happy.

jethrojam420

unsung wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
Can I ask... What do you do for a living?
Why can't your company... the entire market slash your high wages and hire some that is capable of doing your job... for a lot less money?
I am certain that you are not at the top of your field and there are many others willing to wdo the same work.. for less pay.

Certain, are you? Well I'm not divulging my personal information.

I will say that I am highly trained in a sector that the safety of the public is dependent on my diagnostic skills. We have oversight from a multitude of federal agencies. I am subject to FBI background checks on a continual basis, scrutinized by federal departments that verify my qualifications, subject to continual drug testing, psychological exams, interviews by people that are paid to find character flaws, and subject to search at any time while on company property by an armed security force.

You want to farm that out to the lowest bidder? Good luck.

I don't think Cosmo was implying you don't deserve what you get, rather that there is a stack of applications in your boss's desk saying there are many who want it, and will, perhaps, do it for less. Because they are probably less qualified than you is why you get to stay. Same with just about every other job in the world.

backseatLover12

jethrojam420 wrote:

unsung wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
Can I ask... What do you do for a living?
Why can't your company... the entire market slash your high wages and hire some that is capable of doing your job... for a lot less money?
I am certain that you are not at the top of your field and there are many others willing to wdo the same work.. for less pay.

Certain, are you? Well I'm not divulging my personal information.

I will say that I am highly trained in a sector that the safety of the public is dependent on my diagnostic skills. We have oversight from a multitude of federal agencies. I am subject to FBI background checks on a continual basis, scrutinized by federal departments that verify my qualifications, subject to continual drug testing, psychological exams, interviews by people that are paid to find character flaws, and subject to search at any time while on company property by an armed security force.

You want to farm that out to the lowest bidder? Good luck.

I don't think Cosmo was implying you don't deserve what you get, rather that there is a stack of applications in your boss's desk saying there are many who want it, and will, perhaps, do it for less. Because they are probably less qualified than you is why you get to stay. Same with just about every other job in the world.

I interpreted it the same as you. Unsung would probably be singing a different tune if his position was terminated in favor of employing a person who may not have the skills but willing to do the job for less pay, and that is what the employer is looking for. Employers do this all the time. They get rid of the higher paid professional because they cost the company... This happens all the time actually...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

unsung wrote:

Certain, are you? Well I'm not divulging my personal information.

I will say that I am highly trained in a sector that the safety of the public is dependent on my diagnostic skills. We have oversight from a multitude of federal agencies. I am subject to FBI background checks on a continual basis, scrutinized by federal departments that verify my qualifications, subject to continual drug testing, psychological exams, interviews by people that are paid to find character flaws, and subject to search at any time while on company property by an armed security force.

this is you??? cool!