im a 41 yr old guy with no children. i'm even considered a freak. i knew i was not ready to be a dad, therefore, i wasn't. maybe oneday i'll be capable of the responsibilities
i feel it is a damn shame for folks to have kids whom can not even manage their own lives. these are the folks that are foolish & selfish.
Amen to this.
(and to the wise words given to Who Princess at the end of her wonderful post!)
BinFrog, as I mentioned earlier, it IS a selfish choice (for/to me, anyway) but also a necessary one.
I've often been curious as to the other end of the spectrum - what was the impetus for having a child or children? I don't begrudge that urge/desire but just don't understand it.
im a 41 yr old guy with no children. i'm even considered a freak. i knew i was not ready to be a dad, therefore, i wasn't. maybe oneday i'll be capable of the responsibilities
i feel it is a damn shame for folks to have kids whom can not even manage their own lives. these are the folks that are foolish & selfish.
Amen to this.
(and to the wise words given to Who Princess at the end of her wonderful post!)
BinFrog, as I mentioned earlier, it IS a selfish choice (for/to me, anyway) but also a necessary one.
I've often been curious as to the other end of the spectrum - what was the impetus for having a child or children? I don't begrudge that urge/desire but just don't understand it.
To me it just made sense. Having my first kid at 33 years old, I had plenty of time to be selfish and have as much me-time as I needed. Then I became an uncle, fell in love with my niece and nephew, and then a few years later got married. I love my wife, have a nice career going, and having kids was the next step and something I did not take lightly. There was no question in my mind that I wanted to have kids. As trying as it can be, I don't regret the choice we made at all. My life is unquestionably better with my 2 kids in my life.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
[
To me it just made sense. Having my first kid at 33 years old, I had plenty of time to be selfish and have as much me-time as I needed. Then I became an uncle, fell in love with my niece and nephew, and then a few years later got married. I love my wife, have a nice career going, and having kids was the next step and something I did not take lightly. There was no question in my mind that I wanted to have kids. As trying as it can be, I don't regret the choice we made at all. My life is unquestionably better with my 2 kids in my life.
well done.
that is how I wish I could have done it. Let's just say I had nine months to prepare for each of my three sons. Wouldn't trade them for the world, but not the way I would have preferred to have done it (and not with who I would have preferred, but that is another saga......)
Every coin has two sides. Maybe people who decide they don't want to have children seem selfish. But parents can be selfish too...
Take Berlin as an example. The neighbourhood Prenzlauer Berg is jokingly called Pregnancy Hill because there are so many people with children. Some of them are self-proclaimed über-parents, they want the world to evolve around them and and their offspring and they have zero tolerance. This has lead to people wanting to exclude parents and their offspring from their bars. So you can see signs like this, for example, in front of a cafe or bar:
I thought for many years I'd find Mr. Right and settle down and "do" the kid thing eventually. But as time passed I realized I was not all that interested in having kids of my own. Selfish, maybe a little sometimes. But the world has so many children that are neglected and I don't want to add to that.
I like who I am and hope to contribute to the world in so many other ways.
Lollapalooza 92, Alpine Valley 11, De Luna 12, Wrigley/Pittsburgh/Dallas/OKC 13, Tulsa/Denver 14, Global 15, Wrigley 1/2 16
I never wanted to have kids and I got a lot of pressure about it from extended family and acquaintances throughout my 20's and early 30's. My ex never wanted children either, but he didn't get the same pressure from his family. I think a lot of that had to do with their expectations of what a woman is "supposed" to want vs. a man, and their projection of their values and pressures onto me. I chose not to take that on or let it influence me. That's their stuff. I've always done a pretty good job of deciding what's right for me and this was no different.
Eighteen months ago my husband and I decided that we did want to start trying to have a child. The change for me came about for a whole variety of reasons...different relationship, different place in my life, different place in my career, different place emotionally, mentally and physically, different perspective, etc. etc. etc. I'm 39 and realistic about the possibility that this will not happen. I don't regret not having a child sooner. It still was not the right choice for me before now. I'm sure having a child will be absolutely wonderful. Not having children has also been absolutely wonderful. I always said I would rather not have a child and regret it, than have a child and regret it, because the only thing that matters in any of this is that absolutely vulnerable and dependent little being that will undoubtably be shaped by my relationship with him/her. You have a child for the child...not to fulfill anyone else's expectations or to fulfill a need that no one else (especially a child) can fill. Selfish choice to not have kids? For that reason I think it's the exact opposite.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I, personally, have chosen not to have children and the article really hit home for me. It touches on how women who choose not to have children are basically looked down upon by society. I have dealt with this first-hand as the great majority of my friends have kids and I have been called selfish by them for my decision. I have decided that motherhood is just not something that would fit into my lifestyle and I think it's a good thing that I recognize this instead of having children to fit into the norm. And honestly, if that makes me selfish, well I really don't care.
What do you guys think about the rising numbers of women that are choosing not to have children? Do you think that that is a selfish act?
no, not a selfish act, but an intelligent decision that is made with careful consideration.
I think we may be getting caught up in syntax here. Making a personal decision like this is not being "selfish" - the point here is that some women (and men) get a certain negative stigma about choosing not to have children. I think that comes more from the it being the social norm to get married and have kids and people find it odd if you do not. and maybe a bit of jealousy.
Yes, thank you Rick, you described it perfectly. My problem is the judgment that I get from other people in my choice. And believe me, it happens, and quite a bit. I don't judge people for having children, that's great for them! So I don't understand why I get the negative connotations by not choosing to have children. And yes, as someone else mentioned, we are left out of a lot of things. So much in our society is geared towards families and parenting. Maybe we need to start a board for childless people BinFrog - yes I am doing what is best for me in my life. Isn't that what we're all supposed to do? I mean, isn't that the point of life? Like I said, if that's being selfish then I'm totally okay with that. But a person that wants children might say that they WILL fit their lifestyle - does that make them selfish then too? You know what I mean?
Really appreciate all the responses - thanks everyone for sharing your stories
WI '98, WI '99 (EV), WI '00, Chgo '00, MO '00, Champaign '03, Chgo '03, WI '03, IN '03, MI '04, Chgo '06:N1 & 2, WI '06, Chgo '07, Chgo '08 (EV:N1), Chgo '09:N1 & 2, Chgo '11 (EV:N1), WI '11:N1 & 2, Philly '12, Wrigley '13, Pitt '13, Buff '13, Detroit '14, MKE '14, Wrigley '16: N1 & N2, Seattle '18 N2, Wrigley '18: N1 & N2, Fenway '18 N1, STL '22, St Paul '23 N2, Chgo '23: N1 & N2
I took years of flack about this when I was younger. It was then known as "childless by choice." Words, shmords.
I used to hear a lot of lip service to the idea that we lived in a day and age when women could make that choice. But many people still seemed to make it their business to tell me what I should be doing. "Isn't it time for you to be getting pregnant?" "Why don't you have children?" "Do you have a fertility problem?" "Shouldn't you start trying in case you change your mind later?" My favorite, from a doctor I consulted for migraines, "You just need to get pregnant."
Were any of these people privy to the reasons my husband and I chose not to have children? Of course not. On the rare occasion that I tried to explain my reasoning, I would hear: "Oh, I don't thank that would be true! And I think you'd make a wonderful mother!" So when people asked, I just told them I didn't like children. End of conversation.
When I was 37, I had a procedure called endometrial ablation for female problems. It solves some problems but it also means you cannot get pregnant. After that, when people got nosy I just told them that I was unable to have children. Although I still a got a few "Have you considered adoption?" :roll:
Have I ever regretted it? Sometimes. Holding someone's sweet little baby, having conversations with my young nephews and niece, running into friends' teenage kids working at their summer jobs and trying to look grown up and responsible--sometimes I think it must be the must remarkable experience in the world to raise a child and watch as they grow and learn their place in the world. But there's a lot of hard work that goes along with that and don't think it would have been right for me to take on that role.
I went to graduate school with a woman that I very much admired. Incredibly smart, capable, fun, sensible. She had 6 kids, from junior high to college aged. She told me once, "If you want to be a mother, there all kinds of people in the world who need mothering. You don't have to have your own child to be a mother." That has always stayed with me. Excellent advice.
Wow. I'm sorry you went through all of that, but I totally understand. At the end of the day, it's nobody's business! That is a very personal decision, I hate that people feel the need to ask those types of questions.
WI '98, WI '99 (EV), WI '00, Chgo '00, MO '00, Champaign '03, Chgo '03, WI '03, IN '03, MI '04, Chgo '06:N1 & 2, WI '06, Chgo '07, Chgo '08 (EV:N1), Chgo '09:N1 & 2, Chgo '11 (EV:N1), WI '11:N1 & 2, Philly '12, Wrigley '13, Pitt '13, Buff '13, Detroit '14, MKE '14, Wrigley '16: N1 & N2, Seattle '18 N2, Wrigley '18: N1 & N2, Fenway '18 N1, STL '22, St Paul '23 N2, Chgo '23: N1 & N2
many moons ago, got married, and immediately all the "when are you having a baby?" questions began. Then we had one, and immediately all the "when are you going to have another one?" started. People can be relentless. people suck
many moons ago, got married, and immediately all the "when are you having a baby?" questions began. Then we had one, and immediately all the "when are you going to have another one?" started. People can be relentless. people suck
Poor Lisa.. we cant even be near my one aunt without the "baby" shit being brought up..
We may do it one day. and if it happened unplanned, we would welcome it all for sure!!
but, Jesus lady! leave it alone!!
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
many moons ago, got married, and immediately all the "when are you having a baby?" questions began. Then we had one, and immediately all the "when are you going to have another one?" started. People can be relentless. people suck
Poor Lisa.. we cant even be near my one aunt without the "baby" shit being brought up..
We may do it one day. and if it happened unplanned, we would welcome it all for sure!!
but, Jesus lady! leave it alone!!
and when I finally left the ex, everyone said: "what took you so long, how did you put up with her this long?" :fp:
many moons ago, got married, and immediately all the "when are you having a baby?" questions began. Then we had one, and immediately all the "when are you going to have another one?" started. People can be relentless. people suck
Poor Lisa.. we cant even be near my one aunt without the "baby" shit being brought up..
We may do it one day. and if it happened unplanned, we would welcome it all for sure!!
but, Jesus lady! leave it alone!!
and when I finally left the ex, everyone said: "what took you so long, how did you put up with her this long?" :fp:
This is why I drink heavily at family functions
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
all it took for me to become a mother was one drunken night.
no one should be made to feel guilty or selfish for a decision that affects ONLY them. its your body and your life.. do what you want with it and to hell with the critics. women are more than just their wombs and reproductive abilities. are men subjected to such scrutiny about their childlessness???? yeah didn't think so....
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
all it took for me to become a mother was one drunken night.
no one should be made to feel guilty or selfish for a decision that affects ONLY them. its your body and your life.. do what you want with it and to hell with the critics. women are more than just their wombs and reproductive abilities. are men subjected to such scrutiny about their childlessness???? yeah didn't think so....
You know, you bring up a really good point. The article touched on this a bit too, but it doesn't seem as though men get the same hassle that women do about this issue. No one ever asked my ex about it, except maybe his family. It was always me on the spot.
WI '98, WI '99 (EV), WI '00, Chgo '00, MO '00, Champaign '03, Chgo '03, WI '03, IN '03, MI '04, Chgo '06:N1 & 2, WI '06, Chgo '07, Chgo '08 (EV:N1), Chgo '09:N1 & 2, Chgo '11 (EV:N1), WI '11:N1 & 2, Philly '12, Wrigley '13, Pitt '13, Buff '13, Detroit '14, MKE '14, Wrigley '16: N1 & N2, Seattle '18 N2, Wrigley '18: N1 & N2, Fenway '18 N1, STL '22, St Paul '23 N2, Chgo '23: N1 & N2
all it took for me to become a mother was one drunken night.
no one should be made to feel guilty or selfish for a decision that affects ONLY them. its your body and your life.. do what you want with it and to hell with the critics. women are more than just their wombs and reproductive abilities. are men subjected to such scrutiny about their childlessness???? yeah didn't think so....
You know, you bring up a really good point. The article touched on this a bit too, but it doesn't seem as though men get the same hassle that women do about this issue. No one ever asked my ex about it, except maybe his family. It was always me on the spot.
of course men don't get hassled about being childless. afterall.. its womens work.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
all it took for me to become a mother was one drunken night.
no one should be made to feel guilty or selfish for a decision that affects ONLY them. its your body and your life.. do what you want with it and to hell with the critics. women are more than just their wombs and reproductive abilities. are men subjected to such scrutiny about their childlessness???? yeah didn't think so....
You know, you bring up a really good point. The article touched on this a bit too, but it doesn't seem as though men get the same hassle that women do about this issue. No one ever asked my ex about it, except maybe his family. It was always me on the spot.
of course men don't get hassled about being childless. afterall.. its womens work.
You are right, I mean I got harrassed plenty about having to do all kinds of things that were expected, but yeah, when it came to babies, I could just leave the room.
I tell my sons that there is no rush for marriage or kids, they can wait a long time for that, they need to live their own lives first and figure out how they want to live and be comfortable with themselves before committing to anyone else
of course men don't get hassled about being childless. afterall.. its womens work.
You are right, I mean I got harrassed plenty about having to do all kinds of things that were expected, but yeah, when it came to babies, I could just leave the room.
I tell my sons that there is no rush for marriage or kids, they can wait a long time for that, they need to live their own lives first and figure out how they want to live and be comfortable with themselves before committing to anyone else
im living my own life now though im still working through the HOW to live that life. and that's the beauty of the individual life....tho the destination for all of us is the same, the journey is our own and the path taken should always be of ones own choosing.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i get hassled about marriage all the time from my extended family.
can i help it that i am holding out for the perfect woman for me?
if i am gonna do it, i am only doing it once....
haven't ever been hassled about kids though.
I remember one of the kids(probably zoe) coming home one day and telling me that one of her school friends told her that I cant be her mother cause im not married to her father. I assured her that not only was that a bullshit statement, i was her mother. as for my family(extended and immediate)... they know better than to ask stupid questions of me.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i get hassled about marriage all the time from my extended family.
can i help it that i am holding out for the perfect woman for me?
if i am gonna do it, i am only doing it once....
haven't ever been hassled about kids though.
I remember one of the kids(probably zoe) coming home one day and telling me that one of her school friends told her that I cant be her mother cause im not married to her father. I assured her that not only was that a bullshit statement, i was her mother. as for my family(extended and immediate)... they know better than to ask stupid questions of me.
:shock: :shock: This exact same thing happened to me!! My mom and dad split right after my sister was born, they never married, and I never saw him again. So my mom puts us in Catholic school (that's a story for another day :fp: ) and I really got into it with another girl in my class because she said it was impossible for me to exist since my parents never married. I've never forgotten that!
WI '98, WI '99 (EV), WI '00, Chgo '00, MO '00, Champaign '03, Chgo '03, WI '03, IN '03, MI '04, Chgo '06:N1 & 2, WI '06, Chgo '07, Chgo '08 (EV:N1), Chgo '09:N1 & 2, Chgo '11 (EV:N1), WI '11:N1 & 2, Philly '12, Wrigley '13, Pitt '13, Buff '13, Detroit '14, MKE '14, Wrigley '16: N1 & N2, Seattle '18 N2, Wrigley '18: N1 & N2, Fenway '18 N1, STL '22, St Paul '23 N2, Chgo '23: N1 & N2
i get hassled about marriage all the time from my extended family.
can i help it that i am holding out for the perfect woman for me?
if i am gonna do it, i am only doing it once....
haven't ever been hassled about kids though.
I remember one of the kids(probably zoe) coming home one day and telling me that one of her school friends told her that I cant be her mother cause im not married to her father. I assured her that not only was that a bullshit statement, i was her mother. as for my family(extended and immediate)... they know better than to ask stupid questions of me.
:shock: :shock: This exact same thing happened to me!! My mom and dad split right after my sister was born, they never married, and I never saw him again. So my mom puts us in Catholic school (that's a story for another day :fp: ) and I really got into it with another girl in my class because she said it was impossible for me to exist since my parents never married. I've never forgotten that!
makes you wonder what other garbage is clogging up their little heads.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
[I really got into it with another girl in my class because she said it was impossible for me to exist since my parents never married. I've never forgotten that!
she has an interesting definition of exist since by talking to you that pretty much proves your existence
Comments
(and to the wise words given to Who Princess at the end of her wonderful post!)
BinFrog, as I mentioned earlier, it IS a selfish choice (for/to me, anyway) but also a necessary one.
I've often been curious as to the other end of the spectrum - what was the impetus for having a child or children? I don't begrudge that urge/desire but just don't understand it.
To me it just made sense. Having my first kid at 33 years old, I had plenty of time to be selfish and have as much me-time as I needed. Then I became an uncle, fell in love with my niece and nephew, and then a few years later got married. I love my wife, have a nice career going, and having kids was the next step and something I did not take lightly. There was no question in my mind that I wanted to have kids. As trying as it can be, I don't regret the choice we made at all. My life is unquestionably better with my 2 kids in my life.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
More like a drunk aunt.
:P
well done.
that is how I wish I could have done it. Let's just say I had nine months to prepare for each of my three sons. Wouldn't trade them for the world, but not the way I would have preferred to have done it (and not with who I would have preferred, but that is another saga......)
I also have no desire to have kids.
Take Berlin as an example. The neighbourhood Prenzlauer Berg is jokingly called Pregnancy Hill because there are so many people with children. Some of them are self-proclaimed über-parents, they want the world to evolve around them and and their offspring and they have zero tolerance. This has lead to people wanting to exclude parents and their offspring from their bars. So you can see signs like this, for example, in front of a cafe or bar:
Here's a bit more to read ... http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/berlin-cafe-criticized-for-no-stroller-policy-a-858377.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/adults-only-please-child-free-zone-in-berlin-cafe-raises-eyebrows-a-681951.html
I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. I'm just trying to see both sides
I thought for many years I'd find Mr. Right and settle down and "do" the kid thing eventually. But as time passed I realized I was not all that interested in having kids of my own. Selfish, maybe a little sometimes. But the world has so many children that are neglected and I don't want to add to that.
I like who I am and hope to contribute to the world in so many other ways.
she is my pearl jam girl!!
10-05-04 09-09-05
05-16-06-5-17-06-5-19-06,06-26-06-06-27-06 05-03-10 09-04-11
07/19/13 11-15-13
No woman has any obligation to have children. So one doesn't equate with the other anyway.
But I just loved this line tho
Eighteen months ago my husband and I decided that we did want to start trying to have a child. The change for me came about for a whole variety of reasons...different relationship, different place in my life, different place in my career, different place emotionally, mentally and physically, different perspective, etc. etc. etc. I'm 39 and realistic about the possibility that this will not happen. I don't regret not having a child sooner. It still was not the right choice for me before now. I'm sure having a child will be absolutely wonderful. Not having children has also been absolutely wonderful. I always said I would rather not have a child and regret it, than have a child and regret it, because the only thing that matters in any of this is that absolutely vulnerable and dependent little being that will undoubtably be shaped by my relationship with him/her. You have a child for the child...not to fulfill anyone else's expectations or to fulfill a need that no one else (especially a child) can fill. Selfish choice to not have kids? For that reason I think it's the exact opposite.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Yes, thank you Rick, you described it perfectly. My problem is the judgment that I get from other people in my choice. And believe me, it happens, and quite a bit. I don't judge people for having children, that's great for them! So I don't understand why I get the negative connotations by not choosing to have children. And yes, as someone else mentioned, we are left out of a lot of things. So much in our society is geared towards families and parenting. Maybe we need to start a board for childless people
Really appreciate all the responses - thanks everyone for sharing your stories
Wow. I'm sorry you went through all of that, but I totally understand. At the end of the day, it's nobody's business! That is a very personal decision, I hate that people feel the need to ask those types of questions.
We may do it one day. and if it happened unplanned, we would welcome it all for sure!!
but, Jesus lady! leave it alone!!
Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
and when I finally left the ex, everyone said: "what took you so long, how did you put up with her this long?" :fp:
Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
no one should be made to feel guilty or selfish for a decision that affects ONLY them. its your body and your life.. do what you want with it and to hell with the critics. women are more than just their wombs and reproductive abilities. are men subjected to such scrutiny about their childlessness???? yeah didn't think so....
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You know, you bring up a really good point. The article touched on this a bit too, but it doesn't seem as though men get the same hassle that women do about this issue. No one ever asked my ex about it, except maybe his family. It was always me on the spot.
of course men don't get hassled about being childless. afterall.. its womens work.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Oh crap Cate....we're out of the kitchen!!!!
my kitchen is for dancing!!!
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You are right, I mean I got harrassed plenty about having to do all kinds of things that were expected, but yeah, when it came to babies, I could just leave the room.
I tell my sons that there is no rush for marriage or kids, they can wait a long time for that, they need to live their own lives first and figure out how they want to live and be comfortable with themselves before committing to anyone else
can i help it that i am holding out for the perfect woman for me?
if i am gonna do it, i am only doing it once....
haven't ever been hassled about kids though.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
im living my own life now though im still working through the HOW to live that life. and that's the beauty of the individual life....tho the destination for all of us is the same, the journey is our own and the path taken should always be of ones own choosing.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I remember one of the kids(probably zoe) coming home one day and telling me that one of her school friends told her that I cant be her mother cause im not married to her father. I assured her that not only was that a bullshit statement, i was her mother.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
first sane thing said in the thread! :P :wave:
:shock: :shock: This exact same thing happened to me!! My mom and dad split right after my sister was born, they never married, and I never saw him again. So my mom puts us in Catholic school (that's a story for another day :fp: ) and I really got into it with another girl in my class because she said it was impossible for me to exist since my parents never married. I've never forgotten that!
makes you wonder what other garbage is clogging up their little heads.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
she has an interesting definition of exist since by talking to you that pretty much proves your existence