Not believing in ghosts & goblins ≠ thinking you understand everything in the universe, just the basics.
Goblins is a stretch, and I definitely don't believe in Demons. But I would never say definitively that ghosts don't exist, and I'm an atheist. I can't claim to know whether or not consciousness is contained in energy, and energy always moves on. You never know.
Ghosts and goblins was just intended as a colloquialism for the supernatural, I didn't literally mean Goblins, I don't think many people believe in goblins!
I don't believe that everybody who claims to have seen a ghost is lying or insane, but I do believe that given the huge preponderance of sightings, and the complete lack of measurable empirical evidence, there is no good reason to believe in them.
Like you, I don't claim to be able to disprove the existence of ghosts, or even God, it would be arrogant to claim I know for a fact these things don't exist, I just don't see a reason to give the notion credence either. So my default position is to dismiss, until somebody gives me a good reason not to.
Well, I don't try to disclaim ghosts, but I will unabashedly argue against the existence of God until the day I die. You're right - there does seem to be some kind of empirical evidence suggesting that ghosts might exist. The same can absolutely NOT be said about God. But THAT is not the topic of this thread, so I'll just drop it!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well, I don't try to disclaim ghosts, but I will unabashedly argue against the existence of God until the day I die. You're right - there does seem to be some kind of empirical evidence suggesting that ghosts might exist. The same can absolutely NOT be said about God. But THAT is not the topic of this thread, so I'll just drop it!
I think ghosts are a theoretical possibility, but not one I put any stock in.
I mean, take the Amur Leopard, the are only 30 of these cats in the wild in the entire world, and yet we have had no problem at all proving their existence, in fact we have hours of recent footage of them in the wild. Contrast that with ghosts, which literally thousands of people around the world are claiming to have seen every single day, yet nobody has come up with a single piece of hard evidence that passes scientific muster. That just screams bullshit to me.
Well, I don't try to disclaim ghosts, but I will unabashedly argue against the existence of God until the day I die. You're right - there does seem to be some kind of empirical evidence suggesting that ghosts might exist. The same can absolutely NOT be said about God. But THAT is not the topic of this thread, so I'll just drop it!
I think ghosts are a theoretical possibility, but not one I put any stock in.
I mean, take the Amur Leopard, the are only 30 of these cats in the wild in the entire world, and yet we have had no problem at all proving their existence, in fact we have hours of recent footage of them in the wild. Contrast that with ghosts, which literally thousands of people around the world are claiming to have seen every single day, yet nobody has come up with a single piece of hard evidence that passes scientific muster. That just screams bullshit to me.
I might agree.... On the other hand, I wonder if any of what we'd normally accept as at least somewhat reasonable evidence is dismissed when it comes to ghosts just because of the topic at hand. Also, there could possibly be natural factors involved that make this evidence hard or impossible to be found, or we simply haven't found the methods required to come up with such evidence yet..... Just talking about of my ass of course.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
These things are possible, but they are the radically less likely explanation and rely almost completely on assumption. Occams Razor and all that!
I'm not sure how I feel about that theory.... I mean, I don't think the fact that light bends and that the universe does the same thing is the simplest possible explanation either, or that the universe but it seems to be the case anyway! When you consider astrophysics and all the mind boggling theories that actually have real legs, the existence of ghosts doesn't seem so far-fetched after all.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Occam's Razor doesn't say that the simplest explanation is the correct one, just that the one that relies on the least number of assumptions is the one that should take precedence. It is still possible for the explanation that relies upon assumptions to be true.
But my main beef with belief in ghosts is that we know many things about the human condition, we know that both our memory and our brain's ability to interpret the data our eyes present to it are both fundamentally unreliable, which is why we don't accept anecdotal evidence at face value because there is a very high chance of it being inaccurate. The problem there is that the evidence for ghosts is 100% anecdotal, which renders it highly unreliable and entirely dependent upon the assumption that people's perceptions are accurate.
The far simpler explanation is that their perceptions and memories are faulty, and that is congruous with what we know about ourselves, so that is the one I lean towards.
Occam's Razor doesn't say that the simplest explanation is the correct one, just that the one that relies on the least number of assumptions is the one that should take precedence. It is still possible for the explanation that relies upon assumptions to be true.
But my main beef with belief in ghosts is that we know many things about the human condition, we know that both our memory and our brain's ability to interpret the data our eyes present to it are both fundamentally unreliable, which is why we don't accept anecdotal evidence at face value because there is a very high chance of it being inaccurate. The problem there is that the evidence for ghosts is 100% anecdotal, which renders it highly unreliable and entirely dependent upon the assumption that people's perceptions are accurate.
The far simpler explanation is that their perceptions and memories are faulty, and that is congruous with what we know about ourselves, so that is the one I lean towards.
Well, that definition of Occam's Razor does mean the same thing as the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
Hey, I'm with you. I don't think ghosts exist. But I think there is a theoretical possibility that they might, again going on the fact that energy necessarily moves on and there is a theoretical possibility that consciousness carries on in energy. I doubt it! But I see no reason to write off the possibility! Plus, there are what I think could be proof of ghosts. It's just that no one is willing to believe the proof. I mean, if a legitimate photo of a ghost was taken and shared with the world, how many scientists would believe it? I'm thinking close to zero. But if you take a picture of an endangered animal that no one thought existed anymore, everyone would believe it. Same evidence, different result.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well, that definition of Occam's Razor does mean the same thing as the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
Hey, I'm with you. I don't think ghosts exist. But I think there is a theoretical possibility that they might, again going on the fact that energy necessarily moves on and there is a theoretical possibility that consciousness carries on in energy. I doubt it! But I see no reason to write off the possibility! Plus, there are what I think could be proof of ghosts. It's just that no one is willing to believe the proof. I mean, if a legitimate photo of a ghost was taken and shared with the world, how many scientists would believe it? I'm thinking close to zero. But if you take a picture of an endangered animal that no one thought existed anymore, everyone would believe it. Same evidence, different result.
Well, that's taking a dim view of the scientific community if you ask me, objectivity is the whole point of the scientific method. Any good scientist prides their self on it. Again, I think the more likely explanation is that such a photo does not exist, more likely than the entire scientific community arrogantly ignoring it.
Apart from that, I think we are basically on the same page.
Post edited by Pingfah on
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I wouldn't necessarily call it paranormal, but this brought about some odd feelings and thoughts - not bad ones, just...odd. Unfamiliar.
So last Thursday was the three-year anniversary of my mother-in-law's death. My husband woke up sick, and also had an important (unrelated) decision to make that day. He and his mom were pretty tight, and like me - I guess like many of us - feels her, mentally talks to her, thinks of the advice she'd give him were she still alive.
(he made the right decision, by the way)
Later that day, at pretty close to the time my MIL died, my mom was in a bad accident. She's in her 80s (her still driving at her age is another discussion altogether), her car was totaled, she could've died. Aside from many cuts and bruises, she's OK.
She's alive.
She's also convinced my MIL's spirit protected her in that time.
Me, I find it touching and not impossible - they never even met - but...I just don't know.
Also, the next morning, one of my NY cousins phoned my mom after having a dream the previous night that she "wasn't doing well".
that is not you or whomever else abandoning the thread it is me.
also, i tried finding a face palm image but they all blew chunks so i went with the above post. pretty slick & justifiable i might add as well as hilarious. but no it is not directed at you or pj_soul
science will not ever be capable of explaining paranormal/supernatural happenings & thank goodness for that fact. the mystical nature of it all is just fascinating & blows the roof off the joint. many countless folks will not ever be capable of being sensitive to anything like this topic or even simply daily living.
some are dialed in a bit more in depth & are fully aware of a bigger/wider picture that is surrounding us. sometimes science should just stay in the lab looking under microscropes, wearing white coats & watching amazing randi interviews
that is not you or whomever else abandoning the thread it is me.
Oh, well you didn't do a very good job of that then. But sorry for jumping to conclusions.
As for the rest of your post, it was just nonsensical. If you think so little of science, you should probably close your computer down right now. Those silly folks in their white coats, some of whom are just doing pointless stuff like unravelling the secrets of the entire freaking universe, have given you just about every useful thing in your life. Your clothes, your technology, your transport, your lights, your communications, your TV, your music, all of it would not have happened without them.
Your ghost hunters and psychics have contributed not a lot more than smoke and mirrors, and relieving a lot of vulnerable people of their cash.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Your ghost hunters and psychics have contributed not a lot more than smoke and mirrors, and relieving a lot of vulnerable people of their cash.
I think there are some who legitimately have sensitivity to or awareness of energy (for lack of better terms) - past and present - and the like. I also think there are some who don't and simply exploit others for their gain.
I remember watching a documentary awhile back - wish I could remember its name - about a community of self-professed psychics. Lots of customers hurting from illness, loss of a loved one, etc. paying these people for some shred of hope or solace. And I think some found it because the feedback from the psychics was so vague, it left much room for interpretation.
I also remember a news piece about a man who obtained a slew of details about strangers simply by what they posted on social media. He'd meet with them, "guess" things about them, even go to some public location that the person had posted they were visiting, and pull the psychic act. Then he'd come clean. People were blown away by the amount of personal information they publicly share about themselves online.
Despite all that, I have to go back to my original statement.
Well, that definition of Occam's Razor does mean the same thing as the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
Hey, I'm with you. I don't think ghosts exist. But I think there is a theoretical possibility that they might, again going on the fact that energy necessarily moves on and there is a theoretical possibility that consciousness carries on in energy. I doubt it! But I see no reason to write off the possibility! Plus, there are what I think could be proof of ghosts. It's just that no one is willing to believe the proof. I mean, if a legitimate photo of a ghost was taken and shared with the world, how many scientists would believe it? I'm thinking close to zero. But if you take a picture of an endangered animal that no one thought existed anymore, everyone would believe it. Same evidence, different result.
Well, that's taking a dim view of the scientific community if you ask me, objectivity is the whole point of the scientific method. Any good scientist prides their self on it. Again, I think the more likely explanation is that such a photo does not exist, more likely than the entire scientific community arrogantly ignoring it.
Apart from that, I think we are basically on the same page.
Well, I generally have a very positive view of the scientific community, but I think that even scientists would treat this particular subject the same way as most others do - with disdain and dismissal. There are few other topics that I would accuse them of doing this with, if any.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
that is not you or whomever else abandoning the thread it is me.
Oh, well you didn't do a very good job of that then. But sorry for jumping to conclusions.
As for the rest of your post, it was just nonsensical. If you think so little of science, you should probably close your computer down right now. Those silly folks in their white coats, some of whom are just doing pointless stuff like unravelling the secrets of the entire freaking universe, have given you just about every useful thing in your life. Your clothes, your technology, your transport, your lights, your communications, your TV, your music, all of it would not have happened without them.
Your ghost hunters and psychics have contributed not a lot more than smoke and mirrors, and relieving a lot of vulnerable people of their cash.
If you're completely closed off to the possibility of this stuff, why are you here reading? Your mind is made up, and that's totally fine. Maybe some of us are not convinced things/energy can't exist on other levels. And don't dismiss everyone as non-scientific and irrational. I'm a scientist, and I don't think that qualifies me as knowing or understanding any of this more than anyone else does.... I think there are people that are more sensitive, gifted, tuned in and others that are not gifted but have gotten those random glimpses that leave them wondering. And I agree there are fakes out there too.
No need to freak out. I don't think anyone here is really attacking science.
that is not you or whomever else abandoning the thread it is me.
Oh, well you didn't do a very good job of that then. But sorry for jumping to conclusions.
As for the rest of your post, it was just nonsensical. If you think so little of science, you should probably close your computer down right now. Those silly folks in their white coats, some of whom are just doing pointless stuff like unravelling the secrets of the entire freaking universe, have given you just about every useful thing in your life. Your clothes, your technology, your transport, your lights, your communications, your TV, your music, all of it would not have happened without them.
Your ghost hunters and psychics have contributed not a lot more than smoke and mirrors, and relieving a lot of vulnerable people of their cash.
that is not you or whomever else abandoning the thread it is me.
science will not ever be capable of explaining paranormal/supernatural happenings & thank goodness for that fact. the mystical nature of it all is just fascinating & blows the roof off the joint. many countless folks will not ever be capable of being sensitive to anything like this topic or even simply daily living.
some are dialed in a bit more in depth & are fully aware of a bigger/wider picture that is surrounding us. sometimes science should just stay in the lab looking under microscropes, wearing white coats & watching amazing randi interviews
I didn't take you for the religious fundamentalist type but this sure reads like it. I'm not a scientist but I'm married to one and I find this post quite ignorant and offensive.
I think that EVERYTHING supernatural is actually just "natural". We simply haven't figured it out yet. And inevitably figures it out? Scientists. They're not ready for it yet and it might not be scientifically possible for them yet, and it might not be in the next 100 or 1000 or 5000 years, or maybe never. But that doesn't mean there isn't a scientific explanation behind it - EVERYTHING has a scientific explanation IMO. But for me, that idea doesn't take away the intrigue at all. If anything, it enhances it!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
i love science but guess what? it is not time for science to iron this stuff out & it may not ever be science's time to understand all this. i like what pj_soul said, "I think that EVERYTHING supernatural is actually just "natural"" well hello
someone or a few of you anyway are paying attention
dignin, you find my message "quite ignorant & offensive" nice.... that's good now we're even somewhat you've been under my skin awhile
but don't fret it's all good i am very capable of holding back believe it or not
but please bash away i like it
i actually can admit & even understand quite a lot & one thing i really understand very clearly & that is science has not all the answers & never ever will have all the answers to this life on this planet which is a gift & pretty great
& pingfah, thank you so very much for the lesson in what science gives me, give us all. scratch out the tv - i own zero tv. yes i have clothes, i have technology, i have transportation, X... yep i have lights, yes, sir, & i have communication systems - X, yeppers i have music - X,
thank you scientists of the world & thank you, pingfah, for keeping me in check. i am learning so much here. thank you both for this guidance
but it's ok over here. you two have a pleasant night. one thing may be true, i'd probably be getting burned at the stake w/ the likes of (insert whatever words you like here) folks running the show. i'd say that is quite narrowed down thinking. limited not expansive, that's a good way to live i'm sure
I think that EVERYTHING supernatural is actually just "natural". We simply haven't figured it out yet. And inevitably figures it out? Scientists. They're not ready for it yet and it might not be scientifically possible for them yet, and it might not be in the next 100 or 1000 or 5000 years, or maybe never. But that doesn't mean there isn't a scientific explanation behind it - EVERYTHING has a scientific explanation IMO. But for me, that idea doesn't take away the intrigue at all. If anything, it enhances it!
I completely agree. But I think it's hard for science to explain peoples imaginations. It seems that some people look to the supernatural or God when they can't explain an experience.
Since I have never had a paranormal experience, according to some here, I am "close minded" and "not aware of the full picture".
I think some here really don't understand how science works. Science is always open and always pushing forward. Looking for answers. But only answers backed by evidence. If your answer is science will never understand this, then I have to put you into the bible thumper lot. Same thing.
This topic has a lot of parallels with the Evolution vs. Creation debate. I think Pingfah hit the nail on the head when he made the God/Ghost comparison. Hard to talk about a subject when the fall-back position is "because the bible said so" and in the paranormal position "you are not open to it so you will never get it". Some weird circular logic.
"Since I have never had a paranormal experience, according to some here, I am "close minded" and "not aware of the full picture"." - dignin
just because you've never had a paranormal experience does not mean you are close minded or not aware of the full picture. your very own words & attitude on here about the subject lead some to believe you are close minded & not aware of the full picture. it is dismissed as, "imagination" as you say.
is anything even sinking in what you are going in circles about?
millions never see a ghost or have anything paranormal happen but they do not count the happenings as bullshit like you are doing, therefore, you are in the close minded section
I think that EVERYTHING supernatural is actually just "natural". We simply haven't figured it out yet. And inevitably figures it out? Scientists. They're not ready for it yet and it might not be scientifically possible for them yet, and it might not be in the next 100 or 1000 or 5000 years, or maybe never. But that doesn't mean there isn't a scientific explanation behind it - EVERYTHING has a scientific explanation IMO. But for me, that idea doesn't take away the intrigue at all. If anything, it enhances it!
+- a couple of things in your post, otherwise I agree.
"Since I have never had a paranormal experience, according to some here, I am "close minded" and "not aware of the full picture"." - dignin
just because you've never had a paranormal experience does not mean you are close minded or not aware of the full picture. your very own words & attitude on here about the subject lead some to believe you are close minded & not aware of the full picture. it is dismissed as, "imagination" as you say.
is anything even sinking in what you are going in circles about?
millions never see a ghost or have anything paranormal happen but they do not count the happenings as bullshit like you are doing, therefore, you are in the close minded section
I'm an open book. Show me some proof and I will 100% believe in ghosts. If you can show me any evidence I will entertain the idea that they exist.
If I showed you proof or evidence that they didn't exist would you do the same?
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
I've experienced a few things that cannot be explained, that appear to be paranormal. For example, several years ago a friend and I both say a glowing red devil faced figure over a doorway and at the same time felt a light breeze through a room in an apartment with all windows closed. (I know, this sounds almost too cliched to be anything but a B grade movie story but that's what my friend and I experienced and how we both described it.) Paranormal? Perhaps. Easily explained by science or even everyday fact? Possible- I don't know. A set-up or a prank? Also possible. I can't go back and do a scientific study of it but it was and interesting experience, seemed very real to me and makes for a good story so I'm ok with it being a mystery. Do I claim to have had a paranormal experience? No, because I can neither prove nor disprove that what happened was paranormal. But it was interesting.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I wish this weren't a divide.
I can think of one, maybe two, situations where rigidity would be a damn good thing (nyuk-nyuk).
Here, most realms? Not so much. And now I've got a hankering for I'm Open.
Was watching some old-ish Peter Gabriel just a bit ago, sweet footage of Solsbury Hill and this lyric struck me (insert "imagination" with general openness based on who the fuck knows? vs proof) -
"I did not believe the information (I) just had to trust imagination"
Plus Pete rode a fucking bicycle around the stage as he sang this! Worth digging up if anyone's inclined; the links I could find on my PC vs TV were prefaced by ads. I hate that shit.
And I really like what Ms. Soul said earlier about super/natural.
Comments
I don't believe that everybody who claims to have seen a ghost is lying or insane, but I do believe that given the huge preponderance of sightings, and the complete lack of measurable empirical evidence, there is no good reason to believe in them.
Like you, I don't claim to be able to disprove the existence of ghosts, or even God, it would be arrogant to claim I know for a fact these things don't exist, I just don't see a reason to give the notion credence either. So my default position is to dismiss, until somebody gives me a good reason not to.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I mean, take the Amur Leopard, the are only 30 of these cats in the wild in the entire world, and yet we have had no problem at all proving their existence, in fact we have hours of recent footage of them in the wild. Contrast that with ghosts, which literally thousands of people around the world are claiming to have seen every single day, yet nobody has come up with a single piece of hard evidence that passes scientific muster. That just screams bullshit to me.
But my main beef with belief in ghosts is that we know many things about the human condition, we know that both our memory and our brain's ability to interpret the data our eyes present to it are both fundamentally unreliable, which is why we don't accept anecdotal evidence at face value because there is a very high chance of it being inaccurate. The problem there is that the evidence for ghosts is 100% anecdotal, which renders it highly unreliable and entirely dependent upon the assumption that people's perceptions are accurate.
The far simpler explanation is that their perceptions and memories are faulty, and that is congruous with what we know about ourselves, so that is the one I lean towards.
Hey, I'm with you. I don't think ghosts exist. But I think there is a theoretical possibility that they might, again going on the fact that energy necessarily moves on and there is a theoretical possibility that consciousness carries on in energy. I doubt it! But I see no reason to write off the possibility! Plus, there are what I think could be proof of ghosts. It's just that no one is willing to believe the proof. I mean, if a legitimate photo of a ghost was taken and shared with the world, how many scientists would believe it? I'm thinking close to zero. But if you take a picture of an endangered animal that no one thought existed anymore, everyone would believe it. Same evidence, different result.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Well, that's taking a dim view of the scientific community if you ask me, objectivity is the whole point of the scientific method. Any good scientist prides their self on it. Again, I think the more likely explanation is that such a photo does not exist, more likely than the entire scientific community arrogantly ignoring it.
Apart from that, I think we are basically on the same page.
So last Thursday was the three-year anniversary of my mother-in-law's death. My husband woke up sick, and also had an important (unrelated) decision to make that day. He and his mom were pretty tight, and like me - I guess like many of us - feels her, mentally talks to her, thinks of the advice she'd give him were she still alive.
(he made the right decision, by the way)
Later that day, at pretty close to the time my MIL died, my mom was in a bad accident. She's in her 80s (her still driving at her age is another discussion altogether), her car was totaled, she could've died. Aside from many cuts and bruises, she's OK.
She's alive.
She's also convinced my MIL's spirit protected her in that time.
Me, I find it touching and not impossible - they never even met - but...I just don't know.
Also, the next morning, one of my NY cousins phoned my mom after having a dream the previous night that she "wasn't doing well".
also, i tried finding a face palm image but they all blew chunks so i went with the above post. pretty slick & justifiable i might add as well as hilarious. but no it is not directed at you or pj_soul
science will not ever be capable of explaining paranormal/supernatural happenings & thank goodness for that fact. the mystical nature of it all is just fascinating & blows the roof off the joint. many countless folks will not ever be capable of being sensitive to anything like this topic or even simply daily living.
some are dialed in a bit more in depth & are fully aware of a bigger/wider picture that is surrounding us. sometimes science should just stay in the lab looking under microscropes, wearing white coats & watching amazing randi interviews
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
As for the rest of your post, it was just nonsensical. If you think so little of science, you should probably close your computer down right now. Those silly folks in their white coats, some of whom are just doing pointless stuff like unravelling the secrets of the entire freaking universe, have given you just about every useful thing in your life. Your clothes, your technology, your transport, your lights, your communications, your TV, your music, all of it would not have happened without them.
Your ghost hunters and psychics have contributed not a lot more than smoke and mirrors, and relieving a lot of vulnerable people of their cash.
I remember watching a documentary awhile back - wish I could remember its name - about a community of self-professed psychics. Lots of customers hurting from illness, loss of a loved one, etc. paying these people for some shred of hope or solace. And I think some found it because the feedback from the psychics was so vague, it left much room for interpretation.
I also remember a news piece about a man who obtained a slew of details about strangers simply by what they posted on social media. He'd meet with them, "guess" things about them, even go to some public location that the person had posted they were visiting, and pull the psychic act. Then he'd come clean. People were blown away by the amount of personal information they publicly share about themselves online.
Despite all that, I have to go back to my original statement.
No need to freak out. I don't think anyone here is really attacking science.
I didn't take you for the religious fundamentalist type but this sure reads like it. I'm not a scientist but I'm married to one and I find this post quite ignorant and offensive.
someone or a few of you anyway are paying attention
dignin, you find my message "quite ignorant & offensive"
nice.... that's good
now we're even somewhat
you've been under my skin awhile
but don't fret
it's all good
i am very capable of holding back believe it or not
but please bash away
i like it
i actually can admit & even understand quite a lot & one thing i really understand very clearly & that is science has not all the answers & never ever will have all the answers to this life on this planet which is a gift & pretty great
& pingfah,
thank you so very much for the lesson in what science gives me, give us all. scratch out the tv - i own zero tv.
yes i have clothes, i have technology, i have transportation, X... yep i have lights, yes, sir, & i have communication systems - X, yeppers i have music - X,
thank you scientists of the world & thank you, pingfah, for keeping me in check. i am learning so much here. thank you both for this guidance
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
but it's ok over here. you two have a pleasant night. one thing may be true, i'd probably be getting burned at the stake w/ the likes of (insert whatever words you like here) folks running the show. i'd say that is quite narrowed down thinking. limited not expansive, that's a good way to live i'm sure
goodnight
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Since I have never had a paranormal experience, according to some here, I am "close minded" and "not aware of the full picture".
I think some here really don't understand how science works. Science is always open and always pushing forward. Looking for answers. But only answers backed by evidence. If your answer is science will never understand this, then I have to put you into the bible thumper lot. Same thing.
This topic has a lot of parallels with the Evolution vs. Creation debate. I think Pingfah hit the nail on the head when he made the God/Ghost comparison. Hard to talk about a subject when the fall-back position is "because the bible said so" and in the paranormal position "you are not open to it so you will never get it". Some weird circular logic.
just because you've never had a paranormal experience does not mean you are close minded or not aware of the full picture. your very own words & attitude on here about the subject lead some to believe you are close minded & not aware of the full picture. it is dismissed as, "imagination" as you say.
is anything even sinking in what you are going in circles about?
millions never see a ghost or have anything paranormal happen but they do not count the happenings as bullshit like you are doing, therefore, you are in the close minded section
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
If I showed you proof or evidence that they didn't exist would you do the same?
I can think of one, maybe two, situations where rigidity would be a damn good thing (nyuk-nyuk).
Here, most realms? Not so much. And now I've got a hankering for I'm Open.
Was watching some old-ish Peter Gabriel just a bit ago, sweet footage of Solsbury Hill and this lyric struck me (insert "imagination" with general openness based on who the fuck knows? vs proof) -
"I did not believe the information
(I) just had to trust imagination"
Plus Pete rode a fucking bicycle around the stage as he sang this! Worth digging up if anyone's inclined; the links I could find on my PC vs TV were prefaced by ads. I hate that shit.
And I really like what Ms. Soul said earlier about super/natural.