How ironic is this - I was talking to my mother in law earlier and her hand was bandaged up. I asked her what happened and she said that her 16 year old cat bit her twice while she casually was moving something near her. The bite wasn't deep enough for stitches but got infected the next day and swollen. She had to go to the ER and has to go back tomorrow. This is an indoor cat that's always been an indoor cat. Because my daughter gets near the cat a lot they're going to put the cat down as a result of the bites.
So there you have it; you can't trust any domestic animal 100%. All of the pit haters have one thing in common - hate. And looking towards pushing for more legislation to handle the attacks.
How ironic is this - I was talking to my mother in law earlier and her hand was bandaged up. I asked her what happened and she said that her 16 year old cat bit her twice while she casually was moving something near her. The bite wasn't deep enough for stitches but got infected the next day and swollen. She had to go to the ER and has to go back tomorrow. This is an indoor cat that's always been an indoor cat. Because my daughter gets near the cat a lot they're going to put the cat down as a result of the bites.
So there you have it; you can't trust any domestic animal 100%. All of the pit haters have one thing in common - hate. And looking towards pushing for more legislation to handle the attacks.
that is bullshit that they are having the cat killed. wtf is wrong with them? my mom's cat has fangs & claws & she scratches & bites often to get mom's attention like when mom is reading or whatever. yes the bites have drawl blood. you stroke a cat's fur against the grain so to speak and or have the cat on its back and rubbing its tummy often enough the cats take their fangs, grab your forearm & take their back legs & start ripping you up. this is no grounds for murdering cats.
I've really never known a cat that never did not bite or scratch the hell out of ppl. I feel you & your husband should do all you can to save that poor cat from death by mother in law. that is one unreal deal
How ironic is this - I was talking to my mother in law earlier and her hand was bandaged up. I asked her what happened and she said that her 16 year old cat bit her twice while she casually was moving something near her. The bite wasn't deep enough for stitches but got infected the next day and swollen. She had to go to the ER and has to go back tomorrow. This is an indoor cat that's always been an indoor cat. Because my daughter gets near the cat a lot they're going to put the cat down as a result of the bites.
So there you have it; you can't trust any domestic animal 100%. All of the pit haters have one thing in common - hate. And looking towards pushing for more legislation to handle the attacks.
It's not the cat's fault... don't do it! It's the owner's fault.
Look... you are no longer speaking to the points being made. You have shifted your comments towards the people making those points- calling them 'haters'. I realize it is very difficult to respond credibly to the weight of the argument placed before you... but as difficult as it might be... try to stick to the points.
There's a certain level of risk people are prepared to put up with. A cat bite and scratch are not so significant that they should ring any warning bells. The crazy, psychotic, ankle-biting pomeranian is an acceptable risk as well. Labradors and various other larger dogs are an acceptable risk given their somewhat gentler disposition- although by all means we have our exceptions with these breeds as well!
There is no sound argument that one could make to own a pit bull as a pet in an urban setting. The risk far outweighs the level of enjoyment one could ever hope to get... especially when one can get the same level of enjoyment from a variety of other, calmer, and gentler breeds.
Given the options an owner has before they make their choice... one really has to scratch their head and wonder why someone would choose a pit bull? I don't really care to surmise, but I cannot get my head around the idea of acquiring a dog that you would continually have to keep an eye on and could never fully trust.
Now... if I lived on a range or in the mountains... I could understand the need for such a formidable dog as a partner. Does it make any sense to own an Siberian Husky when you live in Arizona? It's built for the cold regions. It would be miserable. Pit bulls are built for running all day and performing vigorous tasks as well as sinking their teeth into things (kind of like working with your hands). Do you think it is truly happy being converted to a lap dog? This is another significant reason why they go psycho.
How ironic is this - I was talking to my mother in law earlier and her hand was bandaged up. I asked her what happened and she said that her 16 year old cat bit her twice while she casually was moving something near her. The bite wasn't deep enough for stitches but got infected the next day and swollen. She had to go to the ER and has to go back tomorrow. This is an indoor cat that's always been an indoor cat. Because my daughter gets near the cat a lot they're going to put the cat down as a result of the bites.
So there you have it; you can't trust any domestic animal 100%. All of the pit haters have one thing in common - hate. And looking towards pushing for more legislation to handle the attacks.
that is bullshit that they are having the cat killed. wtf is wrong with them? my mom's cat has fangs & claws & she scratches & bites often to get mom's attention like when mom is reading or whatever. yes the bites have drawl blood. you stroke a cat's fur against the grain so to speak and or have the cat on its back and rubbing its tummy often enough the cats take their fangs, grab your forearm & take their back legs & start ripping you up. this is no grounds for murdering cats.
I've really never known a cat that never did not bite or scratch the hell out of ppl. I feel you & your husband should do all you can to save that poor cat from death by mother in law. that is one unreal deal
What is it with people telling others what they should do with their pets? I don't tell anyone what they should do with their animals, so keep the personal comments away from me. It's not my cat, and since the owners have top responsibility, they act accordingly. This whole thread is nothing but a total judgment call on pit bulls, their owners, and the owners of any pet at all (as well as all dogs and pets, for that matter).
I've stood by my point the entire time, that all dogs are unpredictable, like to bite, and now, that cats are unpredictable and like to bite as well. People should know what they get into, and RESPECT that no dog, wolf, or cat is ever 100% tame. Thirty Bills - you obviously have an issue with pitbulls. In my opinion, that would be a hater. I'm sorry that you don't like the term, but that's how you come off. And I'm done here.
What is it with people telling others what they should do with their pets? I don't tell anyone what they should do with their animals, so keep the personal comments away from me. It's not my cat, and since the owners have top responsibility, they act accordingly. This whole thread is nothing but a total judgment call on pit bulls, their owners, and the owners of any pet at all (as well as all dogs and pets, for that matter).
I've stood by my point the entire time, that all dogs are unpredictable, like to bite, and now, that cats are unpredictable and like to bite as well. People should know what they get into, and RESPECT that no dog, wolf, or cat is ever 100% tame. Thirty Bills - you obviously have an issue with pitbulls. In my opinion, that would be a hater. I'm sorry that you don't like the term, but that's how you come off. And I'm done here.
Jeanwah... you obviously seek to ignore the disturbing incidents we continually hear of involving pit bulls and their assaults on people by making lame rationalizations such as this most recent one: other dogs and cats bite too. Such a comparison, to my way of thinking, is as poor as the "cars kill people too" defence gun enthusiasts use to defend assault weapons. You seem to wish to ignore the degree of damage a dog such as a pit bull is capable of delivering compared to the other animals you make reference to: a cat attack is a far cry from a pit bull attack. Let's get serious.
I am not sure you have read my posts in their entirety. I would suggest not skimming to draw your conclusions. I have no problem with pit bulls in their proper element. They need space and they need activity- not to mention very good training. If an owner cannot provide these... they really have no business owning one. If they are trying to make their pit bull a lap dog... why not just buy a lap dog and eliminate the stress on the dog (cooped up all the time and unable to run) as well as the risk for others.
So... in the event I haven't been clear enough for you: I don't really have an issue with the breed as much as I do poor owners. When I promote legal liability with poor ownership, I do so to hold owners fully accountable for their choices. When I promote a ban... it is because I have little to no confidence that every person seeking the companionship of a pit bull will raise it properly; hence, we will continue to read of these tragic stories.
But... let's not get too personal. I have friends that own pit bulls and, while I do not agree with their choice for pets... they are great guys and great friends. I try my best to like the dogs and in all honesty... the dogs are pretty cool... but I still don't trust them and I watch them carefully. It's more a case of being proactive- bonding with the dog so that it knows damn well who I am, but as wise as this might be on my part... why should I feel the need to be so? I won't let my kids around them unless I am right there. Some of the people on here- including yourself- sound like great people too. Our positions might differ, but I am still okay with you and wish you very well.
Life would be very boring if everyone mutely ambled through life without so much as a whimper when issues presented themselves. Give us your best... it's appreciated.
who cares about the tens of thousands of pits that you don't hear about in the news because they are just regular dogs living with their owners? let's ban em all. i've looked into two or three pit bulls eyes and saw true evil. i also saw a news story on tv that said pit bulls are bad. that's all i need to sterotype a whole breed. anyone got a petition or something going to really get this ball rolling?
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
if you are interested in learning more, becoming educated on the breed, this is a great article
some of the facts will surprise you and maybe the truth will keep some from their bias
there is also a fun game of identifying a Pit ... I got it on one try
Thank you.
I already knew all the facts - they don't change my opinion at all, because i also know all the other facts that aren't included there, and think that the separation of the results of ownership and the theoretical possibilities of pit bulls is irrelevant. However, everyone should definately know as much as they can before forming their opinions.
My Lucy... gentle Shep-pit
you know all the facts... really :?
Did you read it? the facts on the breed? Nothing was omitted.Takes but a few moments to read.
It is very unbiased not in favor of ownership or banning just honest facts by an organization
we can trust. It touches on who should be an owner, what to expect and provide,
myths ...some of which people are siting here,
perhaps even you though I have not read all your posts. Maybe at least read the myths.
Who is negligent here? Horribly so.
The family here with 7 pit bulls in the back yard do we think they were knowledgable owners?
respected the breed and the present danger of any breed pack of that size with a 2 year old?
Do we think that a dog door should be locked so a 2 yr old can not leave the house
to any number of dangers? As I mentioned my son's nose was bitten badly
as a 3 year old by a Beagle.
Do we think a home with a small child any pack of dogs that size should be kept?
Life experience teaches much. I love pit bulls because I have known many who have been
raised by wonderfully responsible educated owners. They are no different than any other breed.
But as the article mentions pits and other aggressive breeds have attracted
a certain type of owner for all the wrong reasons.
Here in Georgia many buy an aggressive breed, dump it in the backyard
fenced or sadly chained, and literally forget about it. Life on a fucking leash.
No socialization as the article mentions. No love, no bonding.
Fortunately through education, this is very slowly improving.
One day people will recognize what dogs were put here for.
They have a job and they deserve love.
Lucy's job is to look adorable and let me give her full length hugs
I hope everyone one day gets to know this kind of love. Different than all others.
if you are interested in learning more, becoming educated on the breed, this is a great article
some of the facts will surprise you and maybe the truth will keep some from their bias
there is also a fun game of identifying a Pit ... I got it on one try
This 'Pit Bull' friendly site does its best to try and debunk or minimize the 'myths' they speak of regarding pit bulls, but in the event you even bothered to read it... the site does not exactly promote pit bulls as a loving, friendly and safe pets that you can just go purchase and then reap the social and emotional benefits. In short, the site is saying, "If getting one, you can pull this off; but you better be really careful and take precautions!"
For example... interspersed with the 'they're not all bad' and 'you might be surprised' anecdotes... they offer the following helpful information among a bunch of other stuff:
1. Bred for blood sport which has led to their rough disposition.
2. Easily encouraged to fight with other dogs. Early intervention and socialization with other dogs is critical.
3. The slightest aggravation and they can turn nasty quickly.
4. Owners looking to present a tough image encourage their dogs to be aggressive.
5. Many pitbulls should not be left alone with other cats, dogs, and other pets- they have been bred for fighting and they are really good at it.
6. The dog park is not a good place to take your pitbull.
7. Insensitive to pain which sometimes makes the dog difficult to handle.
Hmmm. Not exactly a glowing recommendation. So much risk for a dog. What's the upside? There are other dogs out there that one would not have to worry about so much and would love you as much if not more. Begs the question... why choose a pit bull?
Thanks for reading it through. Yes why I opted to post the article is because it speaks the truth
but did you retain some of the positive attributes, who should own a pit, the myths, the media,
the reason for the bad rap. The fact that dogs are individual personalities, that they can not
be all lumped together and the fact that how the dog is cared for and trained
speaks to the dog they will be...
much like us.
Did you play the game with all the pure breeds who are mistaking
confused with pit bulls? These positive points of the article are all important
when people are considering the banning of a breed. Education is what we need.
Unfortunately some will not listen nor even attempt to be educated and understand.
I hope you have socialized your child to dogs after the incident. Much like a child,
much like us, dogs need socialization as puppy's as the article read. It is a shame
when a dog is forgotten in this way and even more so when a child grows up to be a dog hater.
Missing that wonderful love throughout life is a tragedy multiplied over the one bad experience
with one dog.
i'd never in 4202 trillion light years ever have a pitbull. they are not my cup of tea at all, ever. they scare me & I don't wanna take on that kind of responsibility. as a matter of fact i don't need a dog at all.
Thanks for reading it through. Yes why I opted to post the article is because it speaks the truth
but did you retain some of the positive attributes, who should own a pit, the myths, the media,
the reason for the bad rap. The fact that dogs are individual personalities, that they can not
be all lumped together and the fact that how the dog is cared for and trained
speaks to the dog they will be...
much like us.
Did you play the game with all the pure breeds who are mistaking
confused with pit bulls? These positive points of the article are all important
when people are considering the banning of a breed. Education is what we need.
Unfortunately some will not listen nor even attempt to be educated and understand.
I hope you have socialized your child to dogs after the incident. Much like a child,
much like us, dogs need socialization as puppy's as the article read. It is a shame
when a dog is forgotten in this way and even more so when a child grows up to be a dog hater.
Missing that wonderful love throughout life is a tragedy multiplied over the one bad experience
with one dog.
My kid has bounced back and enjoys several dogs in his life. Our neighbour of three years had a pitbull- they have since moved. We felt it incumbent to introduce the children to the dog several times. Despite my wife and my reservations, the kids felt at ease with it, but they were left under very strict instructions to never enter the yard without us and our neighbour around (ie. leave the ball alone after it goes over the fence and our neighbour would throw it back for them versus climbing over to get it).
Again though... this was us being proactive: better work at having the dog fully know who we all were in the event the dog went cuckoo. The dog seemed to be a very well adjusted dog, but it did not go without incident. There was another dog there that bit their baby in the face.
Bottom line: people can have these dogs if they want, but there is an element of risk that is greater with such a breed than others. Further, if people insist on owning such an animal... then they need to assume the responsibilities for raising it and the full and severe consequences for any of its misdoings. Said again... it is my opinion that the people with their 9 pitbulls should be facing charges for the murder of their child. The loser family on the beach should be facing charges for the death of a protected species (the seal) on the California coast after Sweety Pie murdered it while everyone was having fun on the beach.
Once the pitbulls are gone what breed do we eliminate next?
By asking this question (seemingly in defence for the integrity of the pit bull)... does this mean you are happy with the status quo and that- although reading such stories as the one that sparked this discussion might upset you- you feel these stories are just an unpleasant by-product of the right for any person to own any type of dog they desire in any setting?
The flow of convversation has me speaking more regarding the nature of pit bulls and the concept of a ban to avoid the problems that are inherent with them. This thread is really more about people than dogs.
To get back on track:
1. It's not reality to think a world wide ban of pit bulls is realistic. Although I wouldn't mind... I fully understand why this will not happen.
2. Given the access people have to such dogs... I am inclined to think that more effort must be demanded in raising such animals. Proper training and nurturing must occur or the results can be deadly for someone.
Therefore: as I just said in a post or two ago... consequences... not shitty little laughers... but severe consequences for such a dog's poor behaviour if manifested. This way people will at least think a few times before simply going and selecting such a pet. As well, people will likely make more of an effort to safeguard their animal with proper training and proper fencing so their neighbours do not have to live in fear and possibly face the animal when it is feeling hostile. Lastly, in the event of an incident... owners will not be able to simply shrug their shoulders after they have done an incredibly poor job of raising their dog. They will need to own up to the actions brought about by their negligence.
These things I speak of would not just apply to the pit bull... they would apply to any animal one chooses to own and raise in the company of other people and other animals.
Is there anyone to the contrary for this and if so... why?
Thanks for reading it through. Yes why I opted to post the article is because it speaks the truth
but did you retain some of the positive attributes, who should own a pit, the myths, the media,
the reason for the bad rap. The fact that dogs are individual personalities, that they can not
be all lumped together and the fact that how the dog is cared for and trained
speaks to the dog they will be...
much like us.
Did you play the game with all the pure breeds who are mistaking
confused with pit bulls? These positive points of the article are all important
when people are considering the banning of a breed. Education is what we need.
Unfortunately some will not listen nor even attempt to be educated and understand.
I hope you have socialized your child to dogs after the incident. Much like a child,
much like us, dogs need socialization as puppy's as the article read. It is a shame
when a dog is forgotten in this way and even more so when a child grows up to be a dog hater.
Missing that wonderful love throughout life is a tragedy multiplied over the one bad experience
with one dog.
My kid has bounced back and enjoys several dogs in his life. Our neighbour of three years had a pitbull- they have since moved. We felt it incumbent to introduce the children to the dog several times. Despite my wife and my reservations, the kids felt at ease with it, but they were left under very strict instructions to never enter the yard without us and our neighbour around (ie. leave the ball alone after it goes over the fence and our neighbour would throw it back for them versus climbing over to get it).
Again though... this was us being proactive: better work at having the dog fully know who we all were in the event the dog went cuckoo. The dog seemed to be a very well adjusted dog, but it did not go without incident. There was another dog there that bit their baby in the face.
Bottom line: people can have these dogs if they want, but there is an element of risk that is greater with such a breed than others. Further, if people insist on owning such an animal... then they need to assume the responsibilities for raising it and the full and severe consequences for any of its misdoings. Said again... it is my opinion that the people with their 9 pitbulls should be facing charges for the murder of their child. The loser family on the beach should be facing charges for the death of a protected species (the seal) on the California coast after Sweety Pie murdered it while everyone was having fun on the beach.
Can you really argue with this?
I never was...
I told you first thing I agreed with you before you decided to slam me and the South
Again 7 dogs but it makes no difference
and if you have read anything I've written with an open mind you would
know how I feel about the owners and the dogs in this case and countless others.
Another reason why I posted the article... education.
I'll add that dogs can sense people when they dislike them, distrust them, suspect them,
be suspicious of them. They will react in the same manner just like any of us might
when approached by a human doing so to us. It is a matter of communication.
They will also sense their humans apprehension of being with someone who is not dog educated.
They will also perceive this as a threat to their human that all dogs look to protect,
the leader of their pack, their human. They will also protect what they perceive as their territory.
To them in many cases a child is like a litter mate.
Older children are a threat to them because they can not be trusted.
And your baby's face should not have been anywhere near the dogs face.
This posturing to the dog can be taken as a threat or wanting to play.
If the dog lunged and snapped then this owner should know their dog is not child friendly
unless this was the first encounter.
We never allow children to approach our dogs period. They know children within our family
and other dogs. I protect my dogs so they will not get in trouble just as you would a child.
The parent of a child should teach the child to ignore the dog period.
No eye contact no running up to the dog let the dog eventually come to them.
There is nothing to fear but fear itself.
As far as cuckoo does this mean you have never loved a dog of your own?
I get the feeling after all this you do not trust dogs because you do not understand them.
Education number one in prevention and that not only lies on the dog owners,
parents and children as well should be educated.
Essentially, it comes down to education, training, common sense and responsibility. This applies to most risky endeavors - whether it's pet ownership, driving, becoming a parent.
pandora, sweet pics of Lucy. Whatta face! Looks like she was angling for belly rubs.
(me, I'd hesitate to do so - though I'd hesitate with any animal I don't know, regardless of size)
I never was...
I told you first thing I agreed with you before you decided to slam me and the South
Again 7 dogs but it makes no difference
and if you have read anything I've written with an open mind you would
know how I feel about the owners and the dogs in this case and countless others.
Another reason why I posted the article... education.
As far as cuckoo does this mean you have never loved a dog of your own?
I get the feeling after all this you do not trust dogs because you do not understand them.
Education number one in prevention and that not only lies on the dog owners,
parents and children as well should be educated.
Pandora... sheesh man... you certainly are unique.
1. You called people 'ignorant' for seeking a ban on pit bulls. Some are inclined to think of those people as 'sensible'. Regardless... I slammed the south in response to challenge your assertion. You threw mud first- we'll leave it at that.
2. I said 'cuckoo' because how else do you explain a dog going beserk? If a dog has essentially lost its mind and is attacking a neighbourhood child... it's gone cuckoo... or... whatever word you wish.
I have had dogs growing up and I used to love them. The epidemic of bad dogs (given their owners' failures to raise them properly) has me void of the enjoyment I once took from relationships with dogs, but I can appreciate a nice dog as much as anyone and I understand them fully. Don't give a dog too much credit here... they are dogs and they aren't as difficult to understand as you seem to present. Saturate with love and discipline and you have a friend for life that nobody needs to fear. I have much more of a problem with the owners.
3. As for your prevention comment... don't you think it is kind of sad that one has to educate their children on the potential danger that lives next door to them? This is a people's world first. Dogs should be raised to complement people's lives... not be a potential element of danger that all must be wary of and to treat accordingly.
if you are interested in learning more, becoming educated on the breed, this is a great article
some of the facts will surprise you and maybe the truth will keep some from their bias
there is also a fun game of identifying a Pit ... I got it on one try
Thank you.
I already knew all the facts - they don't change my opinion at all, because i also know all the other facts that aren't included there, and think that the separation of the results of ownership and the theoretical possibilities of pit bulls is irrelevant. However, everyone should definately know as much as they can before forming their opinions.
My Lucy... gentle Shep-pit
you know all the facts... really :?
Did you read it? the facts on the breed? Nothing was omitted.Takes but a few moments to read.
It is very unbiased not in favor of ownership or banning just honest facts by an organization
we can trust. It touches on who should be an owner, what to expect and provide,
myths ...some of which people are siting here,
perhaps even you though I have not read all your posts. Maybe at least read the myths.
Who is negligent here? Horribly so.
The family here with 7 pit bulls in the back yard do we think they were knowledgable owners?
respected the breed and the present danger of any breed pack of that size with a 2 year old?
Do we think that a dog door should be locked so a 2 yr old can not leave the house
to any number of dangers? As I mentioned my son's nose was bitten badly
as a 3 year old by a Beagle.
Do we think a home with a small child any pack of dogs that size should be kept?
Life experience teaches much. I love pit bulls because I have known many who have been
raised by wonderfully responsible educated owners. They are no different than any other breed.
But as the article mentions pits and other aggressive breeds have attracted
a certain type of owner for all the wrong reasons.
Here in Georgia many buy an aggressive breed, dump it in the backyard
fenced or sadly chained, and literally forget about it. Life on a fucking leash.
No socialization as the article mentions. No love, no bonding.
Fortunately through education, this is very slowly improving.
One day people will recognize what dogs were put here for.
They have a job and they deserve love.
Lucy's job is to look adorable and let me give her full length hugs
I hope everyone one day gets to know this kind of love. Different than all others.
I read it fully. :roll:
I've been very clear on my position. The sweetness of pit bulls is irrelevant, as I've explained. Clearly I do not agree with you. I am a real animal lover too, and still, while fully informed and having had experience with the breed (but of course have not owned oneyself, as i would consider that irresponsible), do not agree with your views on the subject. I can't really believe that you seem to think that some responsibility even lies with the neighbors of people with pit bulls to ensure that they are not attacked. Like, it takes a village to keep pit bulls from killing children. Yeah, sounds like a GREAT pet to keep around!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
How ironic is this - I was talking to my mother in law earlier and her hand was bandaged up. I asked her what happened and she said that her 16 year old cat bit her twice while she casually was moving something near her. The bite wasn't deep enough for stitches but got infected the next day and swollen. She had to go to the ER and has to go back tomorrow. This is an indoor cat that's always been an indoor cat. Because my daughter gets near the cat a lot they're going to put the cat down as a result of the bites.
So there you have it; you can't trust any domestic animal 100%. All of the pit haters have one thing in common - hate. And looking towards pushing for more legislation to handle the attacks.
Pit bulls have the ability to kill you, cats do not....big difference. I love all animals including pit bulls, they are innocent and they don't deserve what humans have done to them either by how they were bred or how they are euthenized after killing a child...its not the dogs FAULT BUT humans that can't handle pit bulls just as humans can't handle guns. Should the government be able to take them away?????.....well that's a different thing.
I love my animals, even my arsehole of a cat but there is no way I let my little girl and my animals play unsupervised together. She's too young and doesn't know when they've had enough of being poked and prodded in the eyes or having their tail pulled. :roll: :fp: I never let them around each other without me there. They are both unpredictable plus although my dogs aren't vicious, they are old and have lived most of their lives without the presence of a toddler.
This story is very sad, if it were me, I wouldn't own vicious dogs in the first place but if you really, really can't bloody help yourself, it's up to you to be completely aware of your children's movements at all times.
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How ironic is this - I was talking to my mother in law earlier and her hand was bandaged up. I asked her what happened and she said that her 16 year old cat bit her twice while she casually was moving something near her. The bite wasn't deep enough for stitches but got infected the next day and swollen. She had to go to the ER and has to go back tomorrow. This is an indoor cat that's always been an indoor cat. Because my daughter gets near the cat a lot they're going to put the cat down as a result of the bites.
So there you have it; you can't trust any domestic animal 100%. All of the pit haters have one thing in common - hate. And looking towards pushing for more legislation to handle the attacks.
have there been multiple cases, or even one, mind you, of an indoor cat mauling it's owner or killing its child?
didn't think so.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Once the pitbulls are gone what breed do we eliminate next?
By asking this question (seemingly in defence for the integrity of the pit bull)... does this mean you are happy with the status quo and that- although reading such stories as the one that sparked this discussion might upset you- you feel these stories are just an unpleasant by-product of the right for any person to own any type of dog they desire in any setting?
I am asking the question because it is relevant. If we do this what is next?
I believe that these dogs are also victims. If we eliminate the dog fighting culture these dogs will no longer be bred for violence. These are living, breathing creatures. It is not at all about "the right for any person to own any type of dog they desire in any setting."
[
I read it fully. :roll:
I've been very clear on my position. The sweetness of pit bulls is irrelevant, as I've explained. Clearly I do not agree with you. I am a real animal lover too, and still, while fully informed and having had experience with the breed (but of course have not owned oneyself, as i would consider that irresponsible), do not agree with your views on the subject. I can't really believe that you seem to think that the some responsibility even lies with neighbors of people with pit bulls to ensure that they are not attacked. Like, it takes a village to keep pit bulls from killing children. Yeah, sounds like a GREAT pet to keep around!
No you misunderstand parents need to teach their children how to behave around all dogs.
How to approach, what to expect. Top dog handlers teach to have children ignore all dogs
and let the dog reach out first. I'm sure you know which are the dogs that most frequently bite
because as you said you know it all. The article addresses this as well. It is not Pit Bulls.
Responsibility lies with the parent to teach animal safety just as they would approach
any other danger.
I can't believe you would not think this good parenting and good common sense.
Perhaps you are not a parent yet. This is parenting 101 when the time comes.
Proper socialization of a child as well.
How is it irresponsible to own a Pit Bull? It is only irresponsible if you do not raise
a healthy happy well adjusted pup. Do you think you could do that? Of course you can.
Millions are.
"Temperament evaluations by the American Temperament Test Society give American Pit Bull Terriers an extremely high passing rate of 82.6 percent. The average passing rate for the other 121 breeds of dogs tested was 77 percent. Pit bulls share their homes with all types of people – from celebrities to senators to everyday families like you and me. They work as search and rescue dogs, therapy dogs and service dogs, and they are our faithful companions and best friends."
I never was...
I told you first thing I agreed with you before you decided to slam me and the South
Again 7 dogs but it makes no difference
and if you have read anything I've written with an open mind you would
know how I feel about the owners and the dogs in this case and countless others.
Another reason why I posted the article... education.
As far as cuckoo does this mean you have never loved a dog of your own?
I get the feeling after all this you do not trust dogs because you do not understand them.
Education number one in prevention and that not only lies on the dog owners,
parents and children as well should be educated.
Pandora... sheesh man... you certainly are unique.
1. You called people 'ignorant' for seeking a ban on pit bulls. Some are inclined to think of those people as 'sensible'. Regardless... I slammed the south in response to challenge your assertion. You threw mud first- we'll leave it at that.
2. I said 'cuckoo' because how else do you explain a dog going beserk? If a dog has essentially lost its mind and is attacking a neighbourhood child... it's gone cuckoo... or... whatever word you wish.
I have had dogs growing up and I used to love them. The epidemic of bad dogs (given their owners' failures to raise them properly) has me void of the enjoyment I once took from relationships with dogs, but I can appreciate a nice dog as much as anyone and I understand them fully. Don't give a dog too much credit here... they are dogs and they aren't as difficult to understand as you seem to present. Saturate with love and discipline and you have a friend for life that nobody needs to fear. I have much more of a problem with the owners.
3. As for your prevention comment... don't you think it is kind of sad that one has to educate their children on the potential danger that lives next door to them? This is a people's world first. Dogs should be raised to complement people's lives... not be a potential element of danger that all must be wary of and to treat accordingly.
Yes I find it an ignorant thought to ban an animal entirely. That is extreme and ridiculous.
But thats not what you are proposing so why attack the South and me? When I agree with
your point of the thread? To punish irresponsible dog owners.
For the sake of the dog I do think they should be banned from apartment complexes
as they are in many areas now. Pit Bulls and other large breeds have a lot of energy,
they are working dogs and needs space and exercise. A apartment is not a good home for them.
But this is for the individual dogs well being and is common sense.
I believe there should be limits on how many dogs people can own.
We have laws here by county but not by state. These 7 dogs were most likely illegal to own.
I also believe they should be licensed as they were when I was growing up in WI.
That at the time of licensing and renewal a written test should be taken to be a
responsible dog owner. Too many pups are bought at the local flea market
on a whim and given up to be euthanized when they grow out of puppyhood. That is outrageous!
Again a reponsible parent teaches children about potential dangers.
This is even in the case of small dogs because that is where the most frequent bites happen.
So you will not own a dog because of how irresponsible people have raised theirs? :?
Most dog lovers need just that ... a dog
As far as me thinking its hard to understand dogs, not at all. They are much like us as I
have mentioned. They have instincts in place that control their behavior.
You call it cuckoo I would not.
There is a reason for a dog lashing out and it is not due to being crazed.
It can be explained as we have in the case of these 7 dogs...
and it goes back to human stupidity.
Once the pitbulls are gone what breed do we eliminate next?
By asking this question (seemingly in defence for the integrity of the pit bull)... does this mean you are happy with the status quo and that- although reading such stories as the one that sparked this discussion might upset you- you feel these stories are just an unpleasant by-product of the right for any person to own any type of dog they desire in any setting?
I am asking the question because it is relevant. If we do this what is next?
I believe that these dogs are also victims. If we eliminate the dog fighting culture these dogs will no longer be bred for violence. These are living, breathing creatures. It is not at all about "the right for any person to own any type of dog they desire in any setting."
I'm not going to argue with your statement regarding the fact that we have built a bit of a monster. I'm repeating myself again here: it's much more about the irresponsibility of owners versus the dog. This is irrelevant though- the problem exists and is not going away.
I'm not really advocating for a ban as much as I am advocating for really stiff penalties for idiots that raise a dog that become sviscious and attacks someone.
As for your hypothetical question... my answer would be that we would need to determine actions if a different breed proved to be problematic. It is not about eliminating dogs- it's about eliminating risks.
Essentially, it comes down to education, training, common sense and responsibility. This applies to most risky endeavors - whether it's pet ownership, driving, becoming a parent.
pandora, sweet pics of Lucy. Whatta face! Looks like she was angling for belly rubs.
(me, I'd hesitate to do so - though I'd hesitate with any animal I don't know, regardless of size)
That hesitation is exactly what should be taught to children. You would make a great parent.
Instincts, we have them too. And I agree totally on what it comes down to.
Miss Lucy is sweet and most times when she sees me coming her way she does just that.
That is a sign of submission but you are right again she loves those tummy rubs!
As far as me thinking its hard to understand dogs, not at all. They are much like us as I
have mentioned. They have instincts in place that control their behavior.
You call it cuckoo I would not.
There is a reason for a dog lashing out and it is not due to being crazed.
It can be explained as we have in the case of these 7 dogs...
and it goes back to human stupidity.
Dogs are like us? We will have to agree to disagree on that one.
Some are clever animals, some exhibit traits that resemble ours, and all share a few of the basic needs we do... but a dog is hardly a human being. They are a dog.
Some dog lovers tend to elevate their pets into another stratosphere when speaking of them- some pets elevated to a status above that of people. I'm not so sure this is great.
Comments
your utensil drawer?
ewww
So there you have it; you can't trust any domestic animal 100%. All of the pit haters have one thing in common - hate. And looking towards pushing for more legislation to handle the attacks.
I've really never known a cat that never did not bite or scratch the hell out of ppl. I feel you & your husband should do all you can to save that poor cat from death by mother in law. that is one unreal deal
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
It's not the cat's fault... don't do it! It's the owner's fault.
Look... you are no longer speaking to the points being made. You have shifted your comments towards the people making those points- calling them 'haters'. I realize it is very difficult to respond credibly to the weight of the argument placed before you... but as difficult as it might be... try to stick to the points.
There's a certain level of risk people are prepared to put up with. A cat bite and scratch are not so significant that they should ring any warning bells. The crazy, psychotic, ankle-biting pomeranian is an acceptable risk as well. Labradors and various other larger dogs are an acceptable risk given their somewhat gentler disposition- although by all means we have our exceptions with these breeds as well!
There is no sound argument that one could make to own a pit bull as a pet in an urban setting. The risk far outweighs the level of enjoyment one could ever hope to get... especially when one can get the same level of enjoyment from a variety of other, calmer, and gentler breeds.
Given the options an owner has before they make their choice... one really has to scratch their head and wonder why someone would choose a pit bull? I don't really care to surmise, but I cannot get my head around the idea of acquiring a dog that you would continually have to keep an eye on and could never fully trust.
Now... if I lived on a range or in the mountains... I could understand the need for such a formidable dog as a partner. Does it make any sense to own an Siberian Husky when you live in Arizona? It's built for the cold regions. It would be miserable. Pit bulls are built for running all day and performing vigorous tasks as well as sinking their teeth into things (kind of like working with your hands). Do you think it is truly happy being converted to a lap dog? This is another significant reason why they go psycho.
What is it with people telling others what they should do with their pets? I don't tell anyone what they should do with their animals, so keep the personal comments away from me. It's not my cat, and since the owners have top responsibility, they act accordingly. This whole thread is nothing but a total judgment call on pit bulls, their owners, and the owners of any pet at all (as well as all dogs and pets, for that matter).
I've stood by my point the entire time, that all dogs are unpredictable, like to bite, and now, that cats are unpredictable and like to bite as well. People should know what they get into, and RESPECT that no dog, wolf, or cat is ever 100% tame. Thirty Bills - you obviously have an issue with pitbulls. In my opinion, that would be a hater. I'm sorry that you don't like the term, but that's how you come off. And I'm done here.
Jeanwah... you obviously seek to ignore the disturbing incidents we continually hear of involving pit bulls and their assaults on people by making lame rationalizations such as this most recent one: other dogs and cats bite too. Such a comparison, to my way of thinking, is as poor as the "cars kill people too" defence gun enthusiasts use to defend assault weapons. You seem to wish to ignore the degree of damage a dog such as a pit bull is capable of delivering compared to the other animals you make reference to: a cat attack is a far cry from a pit bull attack. Let's get serious.
I am not sure you have read my posts in their entirety. I would suggest not skimming to draw your conclusions. I have no problem with pit bulls in their proper element. They need space and they need activity- not to mention very good training. If an owner cannot provide these... they really have no business owning one. If they are trying to make their pit bull a lap dog... why not just buy a lap dog and eliminate the stress on the dog (cooped up all the time and unable to run) as well as the risk for others.
So... in the event I haven't been clear enough for you: I don't really have an issue with the breed as much as I do poor owners. When I promote legal liability with poor ownership, I do so to hold owners fully accountable for their choices. When I promote a ban... it is because I have little to no confidence that every person seeking the companionship of a pit bull will raise it properly; hence, we will continue to read of these tragic stories.
But... let's not get too personal. I have friends that own pit bulls and, while I do not agree with their choice for pets... they are great guys and great friends. I try my best to like the dogs and in all honesty... the dogs are pretty cool... but I still don't trust them and I watch them carefully. It's more a case of being proactive- bonding with the dog so that it knows damn well who I am, but as wise as this might be on my part... why should I feel the need to be so? I won't let my kids around them unless I am right there. Some of the people on here- including yourself- sound like great people too. Our positions might differ, but I am still okay with you and wish you very well.
Life would be very boring if everyone mutely ambled through life without so much as a whimper when issues presented themselves. Give us your best... it's appreciated.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
My Lucy... gentle Shep-pit
you know all the facts... really :?
Did you read it? the facts on the breed? Nothing was omitted.Takes but a few moments to read.
It is very unbiased not in favor of ownership or banning just honest facts by an organization
we can trust. It touches on who should be an owner, what to expect and provide,
myths ...some of which people are siting here,
perhaps even you though I have not read all your posts. Maybe at least read the myths.
Who is negligent here? Horribly so.
The family here with 7 pit bulls in the back yard do we think they were knowledgable owners?
respected the breed and the present danger of any breed pack of that size with a 2 year old?
Do we think that a dog door should be locked so a 2 yr old can not leave the house
to any number of dangers? As I mentioned my son's nose was bitten badly
as a 3 year old by a Beagle.
Do we think a home with a small child any pack of dogs that size should be kept?
Life experience teaches much. I love pit bulls because I have known many who have been
raised by wonderfully responsible educated owners. They are no different than any other breed.
But as the article mentions pits and other aggressive breeds have attracted
a certain type of owner for all the wrong reasons.
Here in Georgia many buy an aggressive breed, dump it in the backyard
fenced or sadly chained, and literally forget about it. Life on a fucking leash.
No socialization as the article mentions. No love, no bonding.
Fortunately through education, this is very slowly improving.
One day people will recognize what dogs were put here for.
They have a job and they deserve love.
Lucy's job is to look adorable and let me give her full length hugs
I hope everyone one day gets to know this kind of love. Different than all others.
but did you retain some of the positive attributes, who should own a pit, the myths, the media,
the reason for the bad rap. The fact that dogs are individual personalities, that they can not
be all lumped together and the fact that how the dog is cared for and trained
speaks to the dog they will be...
much like us.
Did you play the game with all the pure breeds who are mistaking
confused with pit bulls? These positive points of the article are all important
when people are considering the banning of a breed. Education is what we need.
Unfortunately some will not listen nor even attempt to be educated and understand.
I hope you have socialized your child to dogs after the incident. Much like a child,
much like us, dogs need socialization as puppy's as the article read. It is a shame
when a dog is forgotten in this way and even more so when a child grows up to be a dog hater.
Missing that wonderful love throughout life is a tragedy multiplied over the one bad experience
with one dog.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
My kid has bounced back and enjoys several dogs in his life. Our neighbour of three years had a pitbull- they have since moved. We felt it incumbent to introduce the children to the dog several times. Despite my wife and my reservations, the kids felt at ease with it, but they were left under very strict instructions to never enter the yard without us and our neighbour around (ie. leave the ball alone after it goes over the fence and our neighbour would throw it back for them versus climbing over to get it).
Again though... this was us being proactive: better work at having the dog fully know who we all were in the event the dog went cuckoo. The dog seemed to be a very well adjusted dog, but it did not go without incident. There was another dog there that bit their baby in the face.
Bottom line: people can have these dogs if they want, but there is an element of risk that is greater with such a breed than others. Further, if people insist on owning such an animal... then they need to assume the responsibilities for raising it and the full and severe consequences for any of its misdoings. Said again... it is my opinion that the people with their 9 pitbulls should be facing charges for the murder of their child. The loser family on the beach should be facing charges for the death of a protected species (the seal) on the California coast after Sweety Pie murdered it while everyone was having fun on the beach.
Can you really argue with this?
By asking this question (seemingly in defence for the integrity of the pit bull)... does this mean you are happy with the status quo and that- although reading such stories as the one that sparked this discussion might upset you- you feel these stories are just an unpleasant by-product of the right for any person to own any type of dog they desire in any setting?
To get back on track:
1. It's not reality to think a world wide ban of pit bulls is realistic. Although I wouldn't mind... I fully understand why this will not happen.
2. Given the access people have to such dogs... I am inclined to think that more effort must be demanded in raising such animals. Proper training and nurturing must occur or the results can be deadly for someone.
Therefore: as I just said in a post or two ago... consequences... not shitty little laughers... but severe consequences for such a dog's poor behaviour if manifested. This way people will at least think a few times before simply going and selecting such a pet. As well, people will likely make more of an effort to safeguard their animal with proper training and proper fencing so their neighbours do not have to live in fear and possibly face the animal when it is feeling hostile. Lastly, in the event of an incident... owners will not be able to simply shrug their shoulders after they have done an incredibly poor job of raising their dog. They will need to own up to the actions brought about by their negligence.
These things I speak of would not just apply to the pit bull... they would apply to any animal one chooses to own and raise in the company of other people and other animals.
Is there anyone to the contrary for this and if so... why?
I told you first thing I agreed with you before you decided to slam me and the South
Again 7 dogs but it makes no difference
and if you have read anything I've written with an open mind you would
know how I feel about the owners and the dogs in this case and countless others.
Another reason why I posted the article... education.
I'll add that dogs can sense people when they dislike them, distrust them, suspect them,
be suspicious of them. They will react in the same manner just like any of us might
when approached by a human doing so to us. It is a matter of communication.
They will also sense their humans apprehension of being with someone who is not dog educated.
They will also perceive this as a threat to their human that all dogs look to protect,
the leader of their pack, their human. They will also protect what they perceive as their territory.
To them in many cases a child is like a litter mate.
Older children are a threat to them because they can not be trusted.
And your baby's face should not have been anywhere near the dogs face.
This posturing to the dog can be taken as a threat or wanting to play.
If the dog lunged and snapped then this owner should know their dog is not child friendly
unless this was the first encounter.
We never allow children to approach our dogs period. They know children within our family
and other dogs. I protect my dogs so they will not get in trouble just as you would a child.
The parent of a child should teach the child to ignore the dog period.
No eye contact no running up to the dog let the dog eventually come to them.
There is nothing to fear but fear itself.
As far as cuckoo does this mean you have never loved a dog of your own?
I get the feeling after all this you do not trust dogs because you do not understand them.
Education number one in prevention and that not only lies on the dog owners,
parents and children as well should be educated.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
pandora, sweet pics of Lucy. Whatta face! Looks like she was angling for belly rubs.
(me, I'd hesitate to do so - though I'd hesitate with any animal I don't know, regardless of size)
Pandora... sheesh man... you certainly are unique.
1. You called people 'ignorant' for seeking a ban on pit bulls. Some are inclined to think of those people as 'sensible'. Regardless... I slammed the south in response to challenge your assertion. You threw mud first- we'll leave it at that.
2. I said 'cuckoo' because how else do you explain a dog going beserk? If a dog has essentially lost its mind and is attacking a neighbourhood child... it's gone cuckoo... or... whatever word you wish.
I have had dogs growing up and I used to love them. The epidemic of bad dogs (given their owners' failures to raise them properly) has me void of the enjoyment I once took from relationships with dogs, but I can appreciate a nice dog as much as anyone and I understand them fully. Don't give a dog too much credit here... they are dogs and they aren't as difficult to understand as you seem to present. Saturate with love and discipline and you have a friend for life that nobody needs to fear. I have much more of a problem with the owners.
3. As for your prevention comment... don't you think it is kind of sad that one has to educate their children on the potential danger that lives next door to them? This is a people's world first. Dogs should be raised to complement people's lives... not be a potential element of danger that all must be wary of and to treat accordingly.
I've been very clear on my position. The sweetness of pit bulls is irrelevant, as I've explained. Clearly I do not agree with you. I am a real animal lover too, and still, while fully informed and having had experience with the breed (but of course have not owned oneyself, as i would consider that irresponsible), do not agree with your views on the subject. I can't really believe that you seem to think that some responsibility even lies with the neighbors of people with pit bulls to ensure that they are not attacked. Like, it takes a village to keep pit bulls from killing children.
Pit bulls have the ability to kill you, cats do not....big difference. I love all animals including pit bulls, they are innocent and they don't deserve what humans have done to them either by how they were bred or how they are euthenized after killing a child...its not the dogs FAULT BUT humans that can't handle pit bulls just as humans can't handle guns. Should the government be able to take them away?????.....well that's a different thing.
This story is very sad, if it were me, I wouldn't own vicious dogs in the first place but if you really, really can't bloody help yourself, it's up to you to be completely aware of your children's movements at all times.
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
have there been multiple cases, or even one, mind you, of an indoor cat mauling it's owner or killing its child?
didn't think so.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I am asking the question because it is relevant. If we do this what is next?
I believe that these dogs are also victims. If we eliminate the dog fighting culture these dogs will no longer be bred for violence. These are living, breathing creatures. It is not at all about "the right for any person to own any type of dog they desire in any setting."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
How to approach, what to expect. Top dog handlers teach to have children ignore all dogs
and let the dog reach out first. I'm sure you know which are the dogs that most frequently bite
because as you said you know it all. The article addresses this as well. It is not Pit Bulls.
Responsibility lies with the parent to teach animal safety just as they would approach
any other danger.
I can't believe you would not think this good parenting and good common sense.
Perhaps you are not a parent yet. This is parenting 101 when the time comes.
Proper socialization of a child as well.
How is it irresponsible to own a Pit Bull? It is only irresponsible if you do not raise
a healthy happy well adjusted pup. Do you think you could do that? Of course you can.
Millions are.
"Temperament evaluations by the American Temperament Test Society give American Pit Bull Terriers an extremely high passing rate of 82.6 percent. The average passing rate for the other 121 breeds of dogs tested was 77 percent. Pit bulls share their homes with all types of people – from celebrities to senators to everyday families like you and me. They work as search and rescue dogs, therapy dogs and service dogs, and they are our faithful companions and best friends."
Yes I find it an ignorant thought to ban an animal entirely. That is extreme and ridiculous.
But thats not what you are proposing so why attack the South and me? When I agree with
your point of the thread? To punish irresponsible dog owners.
For the sake of the dog I do think they should be banned from apartment complexes
as they are in many areas now. Pit Bulls and other large breeds have a lot of energy,
they are working dogs and needs space and exercise. A apartment is not a good home for them.
But this is for the individual dogs well being and is common sense.
I believe there should be limits on how many dogs people can own.
We have laws here by county but not by state. These 7 dogs were most likely illegal to own.
I also believe they should be licensed as they were when I was growing up in WI.
That at the time of licensing and renewal a written test should be taken to be a
responsible dog owner. Too many pups are bought at the local flea market
on a whim and given up to be euthanized when they grow out of puppyhood. That is outrageous!
Again a reponsible parent teaches children about potential dangers.
This is even in the case of small dogs because that is where the most frequent bites happen.
So you will not own a dog because of how irresponsible people have raised theirs? :?
Most dog lovers need just that ... a dog
As far as me thinking its hard to understand dogs, not at all. They are much like us as I
have mentioned. They have instincts in place that control their behavior.
You call it cuckoo I would not.
There is a reason for a dog lashing out and it is not due to being crazed.
It can be explained as we have in the case of these 7 dogs...
and it goes back to human stupidity.
I'm not going to argue with your statement regarding the fact that we have built a bit of a monster. I'm repeating myself again here: it's much more about the irresponsibility of owners versus the dog. This is irrelevant though- the problem exists and is not going away.
I'm not really advocating for a ban as much as I am advocating for really stiff penalties for idiots that raise a dog that become sviscious and attacks someone.
As for your hypothetical question... my answer would be that we would need to determine actions if a different breed proved to be problematic. It is not about eliminating dogs- it's about eliminating risks.
Instincts, we have them too. And I agree totally on what it comes down to.
Miss Lucy is sweet and most times when she sees me coming her way she does just that.
That is a sign of submission but you are right again she loves those tummy rubs!
Dogs are like us? We will have to agree to disagree on that one.
Some are clever animals, some exhibit traits that resemble ours, and all share a few of the basic needs we do... but a dog is hardly a human being. They are a dog.
Some dog lovers tend to elevate their pets into another stratosphere when speaking of them- some pets elevated to a status above that of people. I'm not so sure this is great.