lies, scams, corruption & brainwashing leading us to war

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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    If you want insight into Usama bin Laden, al Qaeda and the attacks on September 11, 2001... read the books, 'Ghost Wars', 'The bin Laden's' and 'The Looming Towers'. They describe bin Laden and how he got there... from his early life, to is rebellion with his family, their wealth and relationship with America, his conversion to radical religious exstremist and his hatred for American influence in his homeland and on his religion.
    There is a reason why the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and the Capitol Building were targets. Symbols that the world recognizes as America's power and influence.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Cosmo wrote:
    ..
    Who.. huh... WHAT???
    Who killed 3,000 people? Iraq? Afghanistan?
    NO. It was al Qaeda. And last time I checked, al Qaeda was never a nation nor did it have any soverignty... or have 1,000,000 people.
    Also, al Qaeda, not being a nation, does not possess the resources to wage a conventional war on anyone. They use a simple strategy of asymetrical tactics to strike once and make it count (just the way the Americans taught them to do against the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s). It takes them a long time to plan an attack and a much longer time to reload quickly enough to maintain a steady assault. They are basically a musket firing rifle... takes a long time to load and only fires one bullet. So, the shots have to count.
    ...
    i don't know what military strategies you study... but, if you were trying to strike America using your strategies and tactics.. you would not have lasted one week.

    sure ... al qaeda but we all know where they were based and who supported them ...

    and no - i'm not a military strategist but can you honestly say that where they DID strike did anything!? ... it didn't cause any real damage ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    JimmyV wrote:
    But you are not a fanatic engaged in jihad against what you believe to be Satan incarnate. That is the difference.

    i think it's easy to paint al qaeda and OBL as such ... it makes for great theatre but it doesn't nearly cut to the reality ...

    it's like how the west has painted Ahmadinejad ... wants to wipe israel off the map ... crazy ... meanwhile when he visits the UN in NYC he has meetings with local rabbis ...
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    polaris_x wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    But you are not a fanatic engaged in jihad against what you believe to be Satan incarnate. That is the difference.

    i think it's easy to paint al qaeda and OBL as such ... it makes for great theatre but it doesn't nearly cut to the reality ...

    it's like how the west has painted Ahmadinejad ... wants to wipe israel off the map ... crazy ... meanwhile when he visits the UN in NYC he has meetings with local rabbis ...

    I think in the case of OBL and his lieutenants it is quite accurate.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    polaris_x wrote:
    sure ... al qaeda but we all know where they were based and who supported them ...

    and no - i'm not a military strategist but can you honestly say that where they DID strike did anything!? ... it didn't cause any real damage ...
    ...
    Yes, we do. Taliban authorities set up by Pakistani ISI in Afghanistan allowed al Qaeda command in operate openly and freely there. But, there was no national objective of war with the U.S.
    And the September 11th attack DID lead to something. A long, protracted war/occupation in a foriegn land that costs billions... trillions of U.S. taxpayer dollars. al Qaeda knows the U.S. won't be there forever. They don't have to win a single battle. All they have to do is survive.
    Remember, Afghanistan has outlasted every empire that tried to take it. and defeated some of the greatest military strategists in human history. They beat out Ghengis Khan, Alexander the Great, Rome, The British Empire and the Soviet Union... and now, The United States.
    Read up on bin Laden... he knew this to be true. That the Americans would not last for decades. They would get worn down and eventually leave... just like evey other empire before them.
    bin Laden wanted to send a message... we (The U.S.) are not untouchable. Bush/Cheney Inc., took advantage of these events in order to fuel their lust for power and money.
    ...
    Iraq is totally Bush's gig. He seized the opportunity to use the September 11th attacks to drum up a war of his choosing. Opportunist... yes. Genius mastermind... Bush? Really?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    http://youtu.be/urvhFWiGLHM
    jesse ventura's conspiracy theory on the pentagon 9/11
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    http://youtu.be/SpXYEbobtAE
    the bilderberg group
    wtf?

    :evil: looks like im gonna go get me some aspartame in some baby food :twisted:
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    Does anyone who believes no plane crashed into the Pentagon care to tackle this question?
    JimmyV wrote:
    So...if there was no plane crash at the Pentagon...what happened to American airlines flight 77 and the 59 souls aboard?

    I think the Pentagon part is the weakest link.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    JimmyV wrote:
    Does anyone who believes no plane crashed into the Pentagon care to tackle this question?
    JimmyV wrote:
    So...if there was no plane crash at the Pentagon...what happened to American airlines flight 77 and the 59 souls aboard?

    I think the Pentagon part is the weakest link.
    what if there was no flight 77?

    I guarantee a boeing 757 did not fly into the pentagon. where the fuck is the debris? stinks to high heaven of a government cover up type deal.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    chadwick wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    Does anyone who believes no plane crashed into the Pentagon care to tackle this question?
    JimmyV wrote:
    So...if there was no plane crash at the Pentagon...what happened to American airlines flight 77 and the 59 souls aboard?

    I think the Pentagon part is the weakest link.
    what if there was no flight 77?

    I guarantee a boeing 757 did not fly into the pentagon. where the fuck is the debris? stinks to high heaven of a government cover up type deal.

    Really? A plane crashing into a reinforced building at 500mph will leave little to no debris. What wasn't incinerated was pulverized by the impact.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    I look forward to seeing this documentary:


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... sm-victims

    The message sent by America's invisible victims

    As two more Afghan children are liberated (from their lives) by NATO this weekend, a new film examines the effects of endless US aggression

    Glenn Greenwald
    guardian.co.uk, Sunday 31 March 2013

    Yesterday I had the privilege to watch Dirty Wars, an upcoming film directed by Richard Rowley that chronicles the investigations of journalist Jeremy Scahill into America's global covert war under President Obama and specifically his ever-growing kill lists. I will write comprehensively about this film closer to the date when it and the book by the same name will be released. For now, it will suffice to say that the film is one of the most important I've seen in years: gripping and emotionally affecting in the extreme, with remarkable, news-breaking revelations even for those of us who have intensely followed these issues. The film won awards at Sundance and rave reviews in unlikely places such as Variety and the Hollywood Reporter. But for now, I want to focus on just one small aspect of what makes the film so crucial.

    The most propagandistic aspect of the US War on Terror has been, and remains, that its victims are rendered invisible and voiceless. They are almost never named by newspapers. They and their surviving family members are virtually never heard from on television. The Bush and Obama DOJs have collaborated with federal judges to ensure that even those who everyone admits are completely innocent have no access to American courts and thus no means of having their stories heard or their rights vindicated. Radical secrecy theories and escalating attacks on whistleblowers push these victims further into the dark.

    It is the ultimate tactic of Othering: concealing their humanity, enabling their dehumanization, by simply relegating them to nonexistence. As Ashleigh Banfield put it her 2003 speech http://digbysblog.blogspot.com.br/2007/ ... since.html denouncing US media coverage of the Iraq war just months before she was demoted and then fired by MSNBC: US media reports systematically exclude both the perspectives of "the other side" and the victims of American violence. Media outlets in predominantly Muslim countries certainly report on their plight, but US media outlets simply do not, which is one major reason for the disparity in worldviews between the two populations. They know what the US does in their part of the world, but Americans are kept deliberately ignorant of it...

    The evidence has long been compelling that the primary fuel of what the US calls terrorism are the very policies of aggression justified in the name of stopping terrorism. The vast bulk of those who have been caught in recent years attempting attacks on the US have emphatically cited US militarism and drone killings in their part of the world as their motive. Evidence is overwhelming that what has radicalized huge numbers of previously peaceful and moderate Muslims is growing rage at seeing a continuous stream of innocent victims, including children, at the hands of the seemingly endless US commitment to violence.

    ...if Americans are going to support or even tolerate endless militarism, as they have been doing, then they should at least have to be confronted with their victims - if not on moral grounds then on pragmatic ones, to understand the effects of these policies. Based on the out-of-sight-out-of-mind reality, the US government and media have been incredibly successful in rendering those victims silent and invisible. Dirty Wars is a truly crucial tonic to that propaganda. At the very least, nobody who sees it and hears from the victims of US aggression will ever again wonder why there are so many people in the world who believe in the justifiability or even necessity of violence against the US.
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    chadwick wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    Does anyone who believes no plane crashed into the Pentagon care to tackle this question?
    JimmyV wrote:
    So...if there was no plane crash at the Pentagon...what happened to American airlines flight 77 and the 59 souls aboard?

    I think the Pentagon part is the weakest link.
    what if there was no flight 77?

    I guarantee a boeing 757 did not fly into the pentagon. where the fuck is the debris? stinks to high heaven of a government cover up type deal.

    Passenger list of Flight 77. What happened to these people if there was no plane crash?

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nat ... ight77.htm

    If you believe this stuff, and I DO NOT but if you do, crashing the plane would be the easiest part.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    And before anyone questions whether these people are real:

    "Barbara Olson, 45, was a prominent lawyer and frequent political pundit on CNN and other TV channels. She was half of one of Washington's most influential power couples. Her husband, Theodore Olson, is the U.S. Solicitor General. She called her husband twice as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were using knife-like instruments. Barbara Olson was a chief investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s. She later became a lawyer on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles, before branching out on her own as a TV commentator and private lawyer. Olson was scheduled to fly out of town on Monday but stayed until Tuesday morning to have breakfast with her husband. Tuesday was his birthday."

    This the same Theodore Olson who argued before the Supreme Court last week in favor of gay marriage.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Cosmo wrote:
    Yes, we do. Taliban authorities set up by Pakistani ISI in Afghanistan allowed al Qaeda command in operate openly and freely there. But, there was no national objective of war with the U.S.
    And the September 11th attack DID lead to something. A long, protracted war/occupation in a foriegn land that costs billions... trillions of U.S. taxpayer dollars. al Qaeda knows the U.S. won't be there forever. They don't have to win a single battle. All they have to do is survive.
    Remember, Afghanistan has outlasted every empire that tried to take it. and defeated some of the greatest military strategists in human history. They beat out Ghengis Khan, Alexander the Great, Rome, The British Empire and the Soviet Union... and now, The United States.
    Read up on bin Laden... he knew this to be true. That the Americans would not last for decades. They would get worn down and eventually leave... just like evey other empire before them.
    bin Laden wanted to send a message... we (The U.S.) are not untouchable. Bush/Cheney Inc., took advantage of these events in order to fuel their lust for power and money.
    ...
    Iraq is totally Bush's gig. He seized the opportunity to use the September 11th attacks to drum up a war of his choosing. Opportunist... yes. Genius mastermind... Bush? Really?

    soo ...what it comes down to is that you believe that al qaeda wanted the US to spend trillions of dollars on war and that's why they attacked you ... whereas I believe that war profiteering is a cornerstone to US foreign policy ...

    i still don't see how if Bin Laden wanted to send a message - it would do it through a complicated plan that exacted relatively small damage as far as casualties ... factor in everything else and it just doesn't add up to me ...
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    polaris_x wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    Yes, we do. Taliban authorities set up by Pakistani ISI in Afghanistan allowed al Qaeda command in operate openly and freely there. But, there was no national objective of war with the U.S.
    And the September 11th attack DID lead to something. A long, protracted war/occupation in a foriegn land that costs billions... trillions of U.S. taxpayer dollars. al Qaeda knows the U.S. won't be there forever. They don't have to win a single battle. All they have to do is survive.
    Remember, Afghanistan has outlasted every empire that tried to take it. and defeated some of the greatest military strategists in human history. They beat out Ghengis Khan, Alexander the Great, Rome, The British Empire and the Soviet Union... and now, The United States.
    Read up on bin Laden... he knew this to be true. That the Americans would not last for decades. They would get worn down and eventually leave... just like evey other empire before them.
    bin Laden wanted to send a message... we (The U.S.) are not untouchable. Bush/Cheney Inc., took advantage of these events in order to fuel their lust for power and money.
    ...
    Iraq is totally Bush's gig. He seized the opportunity to use the September 11th attacks to drum up a war of his choosing. Opportunist... yes. Genius mastermind... Bush? Really?

    soo ...what it comes down to is that you believe that al qaeda wanted the US to spend trillions of dollars on war and that's why they attacked you ... whereas I believe that war profiteering is a cornerstone to US foreign policy ...

    i still don't see how if Bin Laden wanted to send a message - it would do it through a complicated plan that exacted relatively small damage as far as casualties ... factor in everything else and it just doesn't add up to me ...

    Psychological damage is just as much a goal to terrorists as is physical damage. Causing fear is a success. This is true for all acts of terrorism, regardless of who perpetrates them or where. In this Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were indeed successful.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    Again...if there is no plane at the Pentagon...what happened to flight 77?
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,431
    JimmyV wrote:
    Psychological damage is just as much a goal to terrorists as is physical damage. Causing fear is a success. This is true for all acts of terrorism, regardless of who perpetrates them or where. In this Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were indeed successful.
    agreed. i think bin laden won, because this psychological damage has made us give up many of our freedoms and has made us paranoid and suspect of everything and everyone. this fear influences our foreign and domestic policies to this day.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    obama had the opportunity to have bush and cheney tried. he could have had them arrested and handed over to the hague, but he didn't. he felt it would be unproductive. if he had, it would have gone a long way to prove to the rest of the world that we hold our own people to the same standard and that nobody is above international law. but he let them go. pelosi could have had bush impeached in the house for the iraq war, but "impeachment is off the table" is what she always said. the dems are just as complicit in bushco's immunity from prosecution, and are just as guilty as those in the bush administration.
    Obama is Bush 2.0

    Why would he hand him over to the hague when he would suffer the same fate?
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    JimmyV wrote:
    Again...if there is no plane at the Pentagon...what happened to flight 77?
    I can't type here what I would like to
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    chadwick wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    Again...if there is no plane at the Pentagon...what happened to flight 77?
    I can't type here what I would like to

    Please pm me with your response because I've read some of the conspiracy theories and IMO, they hold no water.

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