Pearl Jam turned Better Man into a cream puff song

Big Bank Hank

PJ_Soul wrote:

Tom K wrote:

Although there probably isn't much to add to this thread, I will say that Eddie has dedicated "Betterman" to Charlie DeFabio, Philadelphia Spectrum employee, twice. Are we to assume that Charlie has some kind of history of domestic abuse and Eddie is publicly shaming this old man or can we safely assume that Eddie also sees an alternative meaning to the lyrics?

BTW I understand what the original poster is trying to point out........

and for 81..

President Obama is coming for your guns !

He dedicated it to John Tester in MT too.
Eddie is perfectly open to his songs having different meanings and everything (just like he's said that the meaning of Alive has changed for him since it was written). The meaning of Better Man hasn't changed because the lyrics really are so clear that it's not open for interpretation, BUT that doesn't mean that the same emotion has to be attached to it all the time, and certainly not that people shouldn't be happy about singing it at the top of their lungs.

well thought out response, and it is not people singing the song, but singing not knowing the meaning, if you understand the meaning and want to sing to celebrate the moment that is different, half the people at the concert think the song means something totally different, that is the point, but I still miss the old version, but if you like singing the song, like I have said throughout this thread do it, just don't be ignorant and not know what the songs about, because many people are, but celebrating the moment is cool, really just wanted to hopefully shed light on the real meaning, that's all, but too many want to take one sentence and invalidate the totality of what is said, it seems like everyone's favorite saying in here "it lost all credibility with....." and it is like a few words out of whole bunch, because it requires deep thought and too many words can be too hard to process, but I appreciate the few who actually gave this real consideration and looked beyond the title of thread which I wasn't meaning as a derogatory term towards women, but whatever since that is all some people can see whatever, I respect opinions that are different, especially if they are fair and well thought out

Big Bank Hank

foriginalsin wrote:

Big Bank Hank wrote:

since there are so many in here with the attention span of........and want to dissect every single word, fine whatever, the song has become soft and weak, but that is fine whatever, sing along enjoy yourselves, and kid yourself into believing whatever you want, and the fact that Eddie would take a song that meant something and actually change it to what he has, I am not surprised, back in the day they were complaining about Ticketmaster, but now they play $20,000 a plate fundraisers for Obama, talk about weak, so at least I stand for what I believe and can see the whole picture and the totality of what is said, and not take 7 or 8 words out of 10,000, but with some of the attention spans nowadays, I can't expect many to actually engage in deep thought, but the few of you in this thread who actually are critical thinkers and look at the whole picture I applaud you, because that is becoming rare nowadays, and I could care less about the negative comments, because if you only have one sentence to say about domestic violence, you obviously don't have anything that contributes to the conversation, or that will change the world, in fact it comes across as hollow, but if you are happy in a hollow existence than you should do what makes you happy, I believe the whole point in life is to be the best person you can possibly be, and for me that means caring about the injustices in the world and trying to make the world a better place.

Hello run on sentence. Smoke some weed, its just a song.

you got some? I could use some right about now maybe that is what Got Some is about

Big Bank Hank

a University Of North Carolina student has been charged with an honor code violation for speaking out against the student who sexually assaulted her by the school for creating a hostile environment for her attacker

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/unc-sexual-assault-rape-victim-honor-code-142933849.html

You are being charged with the following Honor Code violation(s):
I.C.1.c. - Disruptive or intimidating behavior that willfully abuses, disparages, or otherwise interferes with another (other than on the basis of protected classifications identified and addressed in the University's Policy on Prohibited Harassment and Discrimination) so as to adversely affect their academic pursuits, opportunities for University employment, participation in University-sponsored extracurricular activities, or opportunities to benefit from other aspects of University Life.
The matter has been turned over to UNC's student-run Honor Court. If found guilty, Gambill could be subject to a range of sanctions, including probation, suspension or even expulsion.

University Of North Carolina proves my point for me, thank you very little UNC :fp:

In 2010, the Department of Justice estimated that 25 percent of college women "will be victims of rape or attempted rape before they graduate within a four-year college period," and that schools with more than 6,000 students "average one rape per day during the school year.”

Ty

Big Bank Hank wrote:

Pearl Jam - Better Man (Live in Atlanta, 1994) R.I.P.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QdRJwSTRn8

Wasn't this like the 4th time it was played?

You just don't like being told you are a dickhead by a lot of people. So many contradictions. We don't agree with domestic violence, of course. We are as passionate about it as the next person. But you relating it to what fans think of a song? You are twisted, and still... a dickhead. Totes, yo!

"Can't find a better maaaannn, can't fiiiind a better maaaaaaaaaannnn!" Awesome!

bobby dazzlers

I haven't been able to understand anything that Eddie says or sings ever!

That is why I always want to hear mankind.


If you got a good woman, don't fuck it up.
Once divided
There's nothing to subtract...

vant0037

Big Bank Hank wrote:

I am sick of reading people on Twitter quoting the song and not paying attention to the song or what it was written about it was a song speaking out against domestic violence I use to think of it as speaking out against it, but ####ing people have made it into a hollow campfire sing along

Once again, has Pearl Jam done this or have people done it? It's pointless to rail at the band about this when it seems like it's people you're really mad at.

...either way, weird, weird thread.

Ty

Big Bank Hank wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Tom K wrote:

Although there probably isn't much to add to this thread, I will say that Eddie has dedicated "Betterman" to Charlie DeFabio, Philadelphia Spectrum employee, twice. Are we to assume that Charlie has some kind of history of domestic abuse and Eddie is publicly shaming this old man or can we safely assume that Eddie also sees an alternative meaning to the lyrics?

BTW I understand what the original poster is trying to point out........

and for 81..

President Obama is coming for your guns !

He dedicated it to John Tester in MT too.
Eddie is perfectly open to his songs having different meanings and everything (just like he's said that the meaning of Alive has changed for him since it was written). The meaning of Better Man hasn't changed because the lyrics really are so clear that it's not open for interpretation, BUT that doesn't mean that the same emotion has to be attached to it all the time, and certainly not that people shouldn't be happy about singing it at the top of their lungs.

well thought out response, and it is not people singing the song, but singing not knowing the meaning, if you understand the meaning and want to sing to celebrate the moment that is different, half the people at the concert think the song means something totally different, that is the point, but I still miss the old version, but if you like singing the song, like I have said throughout this thread do it, just don't be ignorant and not know what the songs about, because many people are, but celebrating the moment is cool, really just wanted to hopefully shed light on the real meaning, that's all, but too many want to take one sentence and invalidate the totality of what is said, it seems like everyone's favorite saying in here "it lost all credibility with....." and it is like a few words out of whole bunch, because it requires deep thought and too many words can be too hard to process, but I appreciate the few who actually gave this real consideration and looked beyond the title of thread which I wasn't meaning as a derogatory term towards women, but whatever since that is all some people can see whatever, I respect opinions that are different, especially if they are fair and well thought out

And hey Pearl Jam Jesus (Big Bank Hank), I bet you don't know the true meaning of every song they wrote, and I'm sure you sing a long just fine. Boy, you are a dickhead. I bet you are a Republican too.

Also, on believing in something, maybe they really believe in Obama and believe in helping his campaign raise as much money from the rich as they can (re: "$20,000 a plate"). They stand for something openly, which is cool. They always have... "Pro-Choice", voting, Ticketmaster, gun control, etc.

Big Bank Hank

Ty wrote:

Big Bank Hank wrote:

Pearl Jam - Better Man (Live in Atlanta, 1994) R.I.P.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QdRJwSTRn8

Wasn't this like the 4th time it was played?

You just don't like being told you are a dickhead by a lot of people. So many contradictions. We don't agree with domestic violence, of course. We are as passionate about it as the next person. But you relating it to what fans think of a song? You are twisted, and still... a dickhead. Totes, yo!

"Can't find a better maaaannn, can't fiiiind a better maaaaaaaaaannnn!" Awesome!

I don't take self evaluation from someone with such a limited vocabulary

papa_pearls_jam.pj20

Mango wrote:

ForceofNature101

Big Bank Hank wrote:

a University Of North Carolina student has been charged with an honor code violation for speaking out against the student who sexually assaulted her by the school for creating a hostile environment for her attacker

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/unc-sexual-assault-rape-victim-honor-code-142933849.html

You are being charged with the following Honor Code violation(s):
I.C.1.c. - Disruptive or intimidating behavior that willfully abuses, disparages, or otherwise interferes with another (other than on the basis of protected classifications identified and addressed in the University's Policy on Prohibited Harassment and Discrimination) so as to adversely affect their academic pursuits, opportunities for University employment, participation in University-sponsored extracurricular activities, or opportunities to benefit from other aspects of University Life.
The matter has been turned over to UNC's student-run Honor Court. If found guilty, Gambill could be subject to a range of sanctions, including probation, suspension or even expulsion.

University Of North Carolina proves my point for me, thank you very little UNC :fp:

In 2010, the Department of Justice estimated that 25 percent of college women "will be victims of rape or attempted rape before they graduate within a four-year college period," and that schools with more than 6,000 students "average one rape per day during the school year.”

In 2010 a crowd at a Pearl Jam show was accused by many as being one of the best crowds in recent years. Forum members speaking out about the event have made comments such as that the crowd sing-a-long on Betterman was fantastic and chill-inducing.

The matter has been turned over to Cameron Crowe who found that very performance good enough to include on the PJ20 soundtrack and the performance has been highly regarded by everyone.

The crowd is being charged with the following Concert Code conducts:
- Enjoying a great song by a great band live
- Singing along, further unifying the emotional gratification of being in a great crowd


Seriously man, nothing wrong with the crowds singing along at all, it is not up to us to assess what someone else feels about the song - just worry about your enjoyment of it and move along

Big Bank Hank

ForceofNature101 wrote:

Big Bank Hank wrote:

a University Of North Carolina student has been charged with an honor code violation for speaking out against the student who sexually assaulted her by the school for creating a hostile environment for her attacker

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/unc-sexual-assault-rape-victim-honor-code-142933849.html

You are being charged with the following Honor Code violation(s):
I.C.1.c. - Disruptive or intimidating behavior that willfully abuses, disparages, or otherwise interferes with another (other than on the basis of protected classifications identified and addressed in the University's Policy on Prohibited Harassment and Discrimination) so as to adversely affect their academic pursuits, opportunities for University employment, participation in University-sponsored extracurricular activities, or opportunities to benefit from other aspects of University Life.
The matter has been turned over to UNC's student-run Honor Court. If found guilty, Gambill could be subject to a range of sanctions, including probation, suspension or even expulsion.

University Of North Carolina proves my point for me, thank you very little UNC :fp:

In 2010, the Department of Justice estimated that 25 percent of college women "will be victims of rape or attempted rape before they graduate within a four-year college period," and that schools with more than 6,000 students "average one rape per day during the school year.”

In 2010 a crowd at a Pearl Jam show was accused by many as being one of the best crowds in recent years. Forum members speaking out about the event have made comments such as that the crowd sing-a-long on Betterman was fantastic and chill-inducing.

The matter has been turned over to Cameron Crowe who found that very performance good enough to include on the PJ20 soundtrack and the performance has been highly regarded by everyone.

The crowd is being charged with the following Concert Code conducts:
- Enjoying a great song by a great band live
- Singing along, further unifying the emotional gratification of being in a great crowd


Seriously man, nothing wrong with the crowds singing along at all, it is not up to us to assess what someone else feels about the song - just worry about your enjoyment of it and move along

I have said throughout the thread I don't care if people sing along, seriously, people don't know how to read I guess, it is people think it is a love song, and the song has become pretty weak as well, but that is my opinion, and there is no problem with differing opinions

papa_pearls_jam.pj20

ForceofNature101 wrote:

Big Bank Hank wrote:

a University Of North Carolina student has been charged with an honor code violation for speaking out against the student who sexually assaulted her by the school for creating a hostile environment for her attacker

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/unc-sexual-assault-rape-victim-honor-code-142933849.html

You are being charged with the following Honor Code violation(s):
I.C.1.c. - Disruptive or intimidating behavior that willfully abuses, disparages, or otherwise interferes with another (other than on the basis of protected classifications identified and addressed in the University's Policy on Prohibited Harassment and Discrimination) so as to adversely affect their academic pursuits, opportunities for University employment, participation in University-sponsored extracurricular activities, or opportunities to benefit from other aspects of University Life.
The matter has been turned over to UNC's student-run Honor Court. If found guilty, Gambill could be subject to a range of sanctions, including probation, suspension or even expulsion.

University Of North Carolina proves my point for me, thank you very little UNC :fp:

In 2010, the Department of Justice estimated that 25 percent of college women "will be victims of rape or attempted rape before they graduate within a four-year college period," and that schools with more than 6,000 students "average one rape per day during the school year.”

In 2010 a crowd at a Pearl Jam show was accused by many as being one of the best crowds in recent years. Forum members speaking out about the event have made comments such as that the crowd sing-a-long on Betterman was fantastic and chill-inducing.

The matter has been turned over to Cameron Crowe who found that very performance good enough to include on the PJ20 soundtrack and the performance has been highly regarded by everyone.

The crowd is being charged with the following Concert Code conducts:
- Enjoying a great song by a great band live
- Singing along, further unifying the emotional gratification of being in a great crowd


Seriously man, nothing wrong with the crowds singing along at all, it is not up to us to assess what someone else feels about the song - just worry about your enjoyment of it and move along

Maybe, Hank should explain it to us again...and, again...and...again.
:corn:

Big Bank Hank

papa_pearls_jam.pj20 wrote:

Maybe, Hank should explain it to us again...and, again...and...again.
:corn:

I wouldn't have to if people could read, but you are right I am done with this anyway, nothing in life will ever be exactly the way we want it, they put Johnny Guitar on Backspacer so I would have to FF past it every time

Pjzepp67

Big Bank Hank wrote:

papa_pearls_jam.pj20 wrote:

Maybe, Hank should explain it to us again...and, again...and...again.
:corn:

I wouldn't have to if people could read, but you are right I am done with this anyway, nothing in life will ever be exactly the way we want it, they put Johnny Guitar on Backspacer so I would have to FF past it every time

FFS Hank...I've enjoyed this thread and all your posts and even sent up some words of encouragement earlier as I felt, like you, nobody was getting your point that it wasn't the singing but the lost meaning of the song that was gettin' on your tits...but to turn round at the end of your polarising defence and slate Johnny Guitar...well thats a whole new can o' worms my friend.

Good luck with that one... :fp:

Big Bank Hank

Pjzepp67 wrote:

Big Bank Hank wrote:

papa_pearls_jam.pj20 wrote:

Maybe, Hank should explain it to us again...and, again...and...again.
:corn:

I wouldn't have to if people could read, but you are right I am done with this anyway, nothing in life will ever be exactly the way we want it, they put Johnny Guitar on Backspacer so I would have to FF past it every time

FFS Hank...I've enjoyed this thread and all your posts and even sent up some words of encouragement earlier as I felt, like you, nobody was getting your point that it wasn't the singing but the lost meaning of the song that was gettin' on your tits...but to turn round at the end of your polarising defence and slate Johnny Guitar...well thats a whole new can o' worms my friend.

Good luck with that one... :fp:

lol, sorry can't stand that song, like nails on the chalkboard, and I wish I could hear one concert without Even Flow, lol, but they are still going to play it, and I will still keep listening, because 99% of stuff I absolutely love, but I guess nobody can like something 100% of the time

IamTom

'I have said throughout the thread I don't care if people sing along, seriously, people don't know how to read I guess, it is people think it is a love song, and the song has become pretty weak as well, but that is my opinion, and there is no problem with differing opinions'


As I'm sure you're aware,Hank,quite often the reason people(I say people because victims of DV can be of either sex) give for not leaving the relationship is love. Yes,this will usually be the denial needed to escape the fear,struggle,challenge of leaving. Perhaps this type of 'love' was modelled in their family of origin and the victim knows no different.

I've always seen this as a wonderfully heartbreaking love song. Illustrating clearly the difficulty of leaving something when it seems its all you've got or deserve.

If people don't 'get' the song so what? There's plenty I've not got in my time.

I wonder if it would be more useful to work with the White Ribbon campaign than dumping on a message board.

I have no idea what Eddie and the band do behind the scenes for DV. If the song helped one man stop or one woman get out I imagine its more useful than a message board rant.

It's felt,to me,that you're attacking when you don't know other's viewpoints. How do I know the person singing along next to me isn't celebrating they got out,that they're heartbroken because they can't get out but the song gives them hope,that it pisses them off because their sister can't leave her relationship?

Or maybe they don't get the song or want to and that's ok too.

Big Bank Hank

IamTom wrote:

'I have said throughout the thread I don't care if people sing along, seriously, people don't know how to read I guess, it is people think it is a love song, and the song has become pretty weak as well, but that is my opinion, and there is no problem with differing opinions'


As I'm sure you're aware,Hank,quite often the reason people(I say people because victims of DV can be of either sex) give for not leaving the relationship is love. Yes,this will usually be the denial needed to escape the fear,struggle,challenge of leaving. Perhaps this type of 'love' was modelled in their family of origin and the victim knows no different.

I've always seen this as a wonderfully heartbreaking love song. Illustrating clearly the difficulty of leaving something when it seems its all you've got or deserve.

If people don't 'get' the song so what? There's plenty I've not got in my time.

I wonder if it would be more useful to work with the White Ribbon campaign than dumping on a message board.

I have no idea what Eddie and the band do behind the scenes for DV. If the song helped one man stop or one woman get out I imagine its more useful than a message board rant.

It's felt,to me,that you're attacking when you don't know other's viewpoints. How do I know the person singing along next to me isn't celebrating they got out,that they're heartbroken because they can't get out but the song gives them hope,that it pisses them off because their sister can't leave her relationship?

Or maybe they don't get the song or want to and that's ok too.

just wanted to get people thinking why the song was written in the first place, that's all, but I do like the old version better, but I am a big fan of Amongst The Waves because of the live version and when the crowd sings with Eddie:
Remember back, the early days
When you were young, and less amazed
Suddenly the channel changed
The first time you saw blood

Cut to later, now you're strong
You've bled yourself, the wounds are gone
It's rare when there is nothing wrong
Survived and you're amongst the fittest

Love ain't love until you feel it
Up riding high amongst the waves

I can feel like I
Have a soul that has been saved
I can see the light
Coming through the clouds in rays

I gotta say it now
Better loud than too late
I gotta say it now
Better loud than too late

and there are a lot of people on this board who hate that song, so it would be hypocritical of me to tell anyone that sing, because I feel like I have a soul that has been saved when I listen to Pearl Jam radio every day or a new concert I have never heard before, and that song encapsulizes that feeling for me, so if someone feels that way about Better Man cool, celebrate the moment, but it shouldn't be turned into a love song the way it has, and I am not even saying anyone on this board has, just have perspective

SPEEDY MCCREADY

I like the song Betterman.
I like cream puffs.
Domestic Abuse is wrong.

Now can we please move on.

ckravitz

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

I like the song Betterman.
I like cream puffs.
Domestic Abuse is wrong.

Now can we please move on.

bravesfan4229

Hey everybody, it's literal man!!!!
I