Pearl Jam turned Better Man into a cream puff song

Big Bank Hank

facts are facts, on VH1 Storytellers Eddie Vedder says it is about women who are in an abusive relationship and not being able to get out of it, so people trying to make it into some glorified sing-along has made it one of my least favorite Pearl Jam songs, back in the day when they use to go out and just kick ass on the song,I gave it a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, I am sick of reading people on Twitter quoting the song and not paying attention to the song or what it was written about it was a song speaking out against domestic violence I use to think of it as speaking out against it, but ####ing people have made it into a hollow campfire sing along, sorry, that's the way I feel, women are still getting shit beat out of them, and people need to remember that song was speaking out against that, I am actually getting to the point I can't even stand to hear the song anymore in it's current form, I mean what are we celebrating? and who is speaking out for the women still getting shit beat out of them? there are so many better songs to sing along that actually celebrate stuff that is positive (Present Tense, Black, Corduroy, State Of Love And Trust even Alive), if you must sing a long, think about the words you are actually singing and what the song is written about next time

Waitin', watchin' the clock, it's four o' clock, it's got to stop (the abuse)
Tell him, take no more, she practices her speech
As he opens the door, she rolls over
Pretends to sleep as he looks her over (so he won't abuse her anymore)

She lies (telling a lie) and says she's in love with him, can't find a better man
She dreams in color (black & blue), she dreams in red (bloody), can't find a better man
Can't find a better man
Can't find a better man

Ohh...

Talkin' to herself, there's no one else who needs to know (embarrassed that she is being abused)
She tells herself, oh...

Memories back when she was bold and strong
And waiting for the world to come along
Swears she knew it, now she swears he's gone
She lies (telling a lie) and says she's in love with him, can't find a better man
She dreams in color(black & blue), she dreams in red (bloody), can't find a better man
She lies (telling a lie) and says she still loves him, can't find a better man
She dreams in color (black & blue), she dreams in red (bloody), can't find a better man
Can't find a better man
Can't find a better man

She loved him, yeah, she don't want to leave this way
She needs him, yeah, that's why she'll be back again
Can't find a better man (Can't find a better man)
Can't find a better man (Can't find a better man)
Can't find a better man (Can't find a better man)
Can't find a better man

pretty obvious what the song is about, and Eddie even said so, even Stone makes a comment about how strange it is that people turned it into a love song although they do kick ass in the VH1 Storytellers version, one of the few kick ass versions since 2000, sad that a song with such a deep meaning has lost all it's meaning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmpowoB43dc

back when the song kicked ass and you can see it in the intensity the band plays the song back in the day

the real Better Man R.I.P. 1994-2000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPBhbCbWrY4

mookieb10

To say Alive is a positive song is to ignore its origins as well... That aside, the song is very difficult to understand. It's so upbeat, and some lyrics, if taken by themselves, could be construed as a song of affection. As to the sing along part, I remember this feeling wash over me when I saw the Live at the garden DVD sing along, I had never been to a show, and that was the beginning of PJ intoxication for me. So, respectfully, my feelings are in direct contrast with yours, plus Save it for Later is a favorite of mine. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Big Bank Hank

mookieb10 wrote:

To say Alive is a positive song is to ignore its origins as well... That aside, the song is very difficult to understand. It's so upbeat, and some lyrics, if taken by themselves, could be construed as a song of affection. As to the sing along part, I remember this feeling wash over me when I saw the Live at the garden DVD sing along, I had never been to a show, and that was the beginning of PJ intoxication for me. So, respectfully, my feelings are in direct contrast with yours, plus Save it for Later is a favorite of mine. Just my thoughts on the matter.

well but as Eddie goes on to say in VH1 Storytellers, we the fans broke the curse of Alive, but Alive was against his own inner struggles, Better Man is about women being abused, so there is a massive difference, Eddie has a great life and overcame the inner demons of that song, fact is there is some woman, somewhere in the world getting the crap beaten out of her as we speak, so to trivialize the meaning of that song is sad, and takes away the focus from domestic violence and putting an end to that is something we should all care about

Ty

All red and angry about people enjoying a song, doing what they did for "Alive"... build a bridge, Dude! A very odd and angry post. Take a chill pill. And there ain't too much positive about the other songs you listed... :fp:

Ty

Only clicked on this in hope that Puscifer had covered Better Man.

DM44143

Big Bank Hank wrote:

facts are facts, on VH1 Storytellers Eddie Vedder says it is about women who are in an abusive relationship and not being able to get out of it, so people trying to make it into some glorified sing-along has made it one of my least favorite Pearl Jam songs, back in the day when they use to go out and just kick ass on the song,I gave it a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, I am sick of reading people on Twitter quoting the song and not paying attention to the song or what it was written about it was a song speaking out against domestic violence I use to think of it as speaking out against it, but ####ing people have made it into a hollow campfire sing along, sorry, that's the way I feel, women are still getting shit beat out of them, and people need to remember that song was speaking out against that, I am actually getting to the point I can't even stand to hear the song anymore in it's current form, I mean what are we celebrating? and who is speaking out for the women still getting shit beat out of them? there are so many better songs to sing along that actually celebrate stuff that is positive (Present Tense, Black, Corduroy, State Of Love And Trust even Alive), if you must sing a long, think about the words you are actually singing and what the song is written about next time

How is Black (heartbreak song), Corduroy (song about Ed not being comfortable about fame), and State of Love and Trust (suicide reference) positive?

AndySlash

this one goes out to the one i love

mookieb10

maybe it's because I wasn't following the band in the 90's, but I never view the song, or the band as champions against domestic violence. You might know better than I, if they were back then, and if they truly hung the song out as an anthem against domestic violence. If so, then it's very understandable why you feel like they've abandon the songs original meaning, and its prior meaning to you. BTW, the "she dreams in color, she dreams in red" line, they insert (black and blue), I never made that connection before, nor do I think its an easy reference to catch. Do most fans know the meaning of that line?

Mango

Maybe you should speak to Eddie and ask him to stop encouraging fans to sing along to it karaoke style with house lights up. But then again its his song and its clearly become something different now. Its the closest thing they have to a pop song. No one is in any more danger because it is sung this way. Nothings fucked here dude.

Big Bank Hank

Ty wrote:

All red and angry about people enjoying a song, doing what they did for "Alive"... build a bridge, Dude! A very odd and angry post. Take a chill pill. And there ain't too much positive about the other songs you listed... :fp:

lets see one song is a bout a kid who didn't get to know his father, however that was something he overcame, but that was his own inner struggle, I use to see Better Man for what it was speaking out against domestic violence, and I always thought it was an advocacy for that, yeah lets end domestic violence, and it was one of my favorite Pearl Jam songs, now it's current form, and the way people sing the lyrics hollow, with no sense of what the song is really about, just sad, go ahead and sing it if you want and celebrate women getting the crap out of them, because is what the song is about, I guess if you never grew up around it, then of course you wouldn't get it

Big Bank Hank

Amongst The Waves, Unthought Known, Just Breathe, Come Back, Love Boat Captain, I Am Mine, Given To Fly plenty of songs to sing along with, I don't even mind people singing along to Better Man, but people should remember what it is they are singing, that really is my point, the song has lost it's meaning, so you guys can have it, I really want nothing to do with it now in it's current form, a hollow pop song

Mango

Big Bank Hank wrote:

...and the way people sing the lyrics hollow, with no sense of what the song is really about, just sad, go ahead and sing it if you want and celebrate women getting the crap out of them, because is what the song is about, I guess if you never grew up around it, then of course you wouldn't get it

Are you serious? The band practically conduct the crowd to have a sing-along with this! No one is "celebrating" violence. FFS grow up.

Mamasan Bren

Food for thought. Jump to 6:30 if too busy to watch the whole thing. But watch the whole thing if you want to hear a thoughtful intelligent speech. Granted the NY Times stat dropped by the speaker after the 6:30 mark mentions sexual abuse, and not physical, still...food for thought. I think the definition of manhood could equally apply to music as well as the point he makes about film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx8RRIiP53Q

Big Bank Hank

Mango wrote:

Big Bank Hank wrote:

...and the way people sing the lyrics hollow, with no sense of what the song is really about, just sad, go ahead and sing it if you want and celebrate women getting the crap out of them, because is what the song is about, I guess if you never grew up around it, then of course you wouldn't get it

Are you serious? The band practically conduct the crowd to have a sing-along with this! No one is "celebrating" violence. FFS grow up.

the band had no choice the fans have hijacked it from them, and yeah band has gone along with, so go knock yourselves out, whatever, but the song has been neutered, you cannot even compare the way it is now to what it use to be, and that is not a good thing in my book

papa_pearls_jam.pj20

DM44143 wrote:

Big Bank Hank wrote:

facts are facts, on VH1 Storytellers Eddie Vedder says it is about women who are in an abusive relationship and not being able to get out of it, so people trying to make it into some glorified sing-along has made it one of my least favorite Pearl Jam songs, back in the day when they use to go out and just kick ass on the song,I gave it a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, I am sick of reading people on Twitter quoting the song and not paying attention to the song or what it was written about it was a song speaking out against domestic violence I use to think of it as speaking out against it, but ####ing people have made it into a hollow campfire sing along, sorry, that's the way I feel, women are still getting shit beat out of them, and people need to remember that song was speaking out against that, I am actually getting to the point I can't even stand to hear the song anymore in it's current form, I mean what are we celebrating? and who is speaking out for the women still getting shit beat out of them? there are so many better songs to sing along that actually celebrate stuff that is positive (Present Tense, Black, Corduroy, State Of Love And Trust even Alive), if you must sing a long, think about the words you are actually singing and what the song is written about next time

How is Black (heartbreak song), Corduroy (song about Ed not being comfortable about fame), and State of Love and Trust (suicide reference) positive?

Exactly.

Big Bank Hank

Mamasan Bren wrote:

Food for thought. Jump to 6:30 if too busy to watch the whole thing. But watch the whole thing if you want to hear a thoughtful intelligent speech. Granted the NY Times stat dropped by the speaker after the 6:30 mark mentions sexual abuse, and not physical, still...food for thought. I think the definition of manhood could equally apply to music as well as the point he makes about film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx8RRIiP53Q

exactly, I had always thought of Eddie as one of the few guys in music speaking out for women, and no song more so than Better Man

Mango

Saying you prefer an older version (or call it original if you want) of a song compared to the current version is one thing but you kinda came at this at 100mph. I don't know if something happened and you are having a bad day but as previously said by another member... chill.

I've sung along to Better Man plenty of times: at concerts, in work, at my home. This doesn't mean I don't care about the issues of the song. It means the song is what it is - its a catchy tune. Indifference is one of my all time favourites but you know what, I don't need to be suicidal to listen and enjoy it.

papa_pearls_jam.pj20

Mango wrote:

Big Bank Hank wrote:

...and the way people sing the lyrics hollow, with no sense of what the song is really about, just sad, go ahead and sing it if you want and celebrate women getting the crap out of them, because is what the song is about, I guess if you never grew up around it, then of course you wouldn't get it

Are you serious? The band practically conduct the crowd to have a sing-along with this! No one is "celebrating" violence. FFS grow up.

That's right.

If Ed, the writer of the song, wants to begin, then encourage the crowd, to sing the song along with, instead of, over the top of, and pausing at points in the first verse into the chorus, with a invitation for dramatic effect and connection with the audience, then why would that not be alright with anyone else?

Maybe the point is, and you allude to it in your comments, this song in its infant or recorded or first played or last played stage is not going to prevent domestic abuse or violence towards women or children, or men, for that matter.

Thanks for raising the awareness, though.
:corn:

papa_pearls_jam.pj20

Big Bank Hank

papa_pearls_jam.pj20 wrote:

Mango wrote:

Big Bank Hank wrote:

...and the way people sing the lyrics hollow, with no sense of what the song is really about, just sad, go ahead and sing it if you want and celebrate women getting the crap out of them, because is what the song is about, I guess if you never grew up around it, then of course you wouldn't get it

Are you serious? The band practically conduct the crowd to have a sing-along with this! No one is "celebrating" violence. FFS grow up.

That's right.

If Ed, the writer of the song, wants to begin, then encourage the crowd, to sing the song along with, instead of, over the top of, and pausing at points in the first verse into the chorus, with a invitation for dramatic effect and connection with the audience, then why would that not be alright with anyone else?

Maybe the point is, and you allude to it in your comments, this song in its infant or recorded or first played or last played stage is not going to prevent domestic abuse or violence towards women or children, or men, for that matter.

Thanks for raising the awareness, though.
:corn:

look and if it gets people to think, then really that is never a bad thing, like I have said throughout the thread, just think about what it is about, if you still want to sing it go ahead, but let the words have meaning, Pearl Jam has always been my favorite band because I believe Eddie Vedder to be one of the greatest poets of our generation

ForceofNature101

The version from MSG II in 2010 is my favorite, the crowd singing along is what makes it for me

I don't see it as trivializing the meaning of the tune but rather the unification of the crowd by singing along to a song they love from a band they love who is playing right in front of their eyes.

I mean it looks obvious that Eddie himself loves it when the crowd sings along, that pretty much speaks for itself

dwhite76

Big Bank Hank wrote:

Ty wrote:

All red and angry about people enjoying a song, doing what they did for "Alive"... build a bridge, Dude! A very odd and angry post. Take a chill pill. And there ain't too much positive about the other songs you listed... :fp:

lets see one song is a bout a kid who didn't get to know his father, however that was something he overcame, but that was his own inner struggle, I use to see Better Man for what it was speaking out against domestic violence, and I always thought it was an advocacy for that, yeah lets end domestic violence, and it was one of my favorite Pearl Jam songs, now it's current form, and the way people sing the lyrics hollow, with no sense of what the song is really about, just sad, go ahead and sing it if you want and celebrate women getting the crap out of them, because is what the song is about, I guess if you never grew up around it, then of course you wouldn't get it

I think you totally forgot the Alive also refers to the moms sick incestual love for the kid. Yes Eddie described Alive as that being apart of the meaning of the song too. Then again Ed has said a lot of things.
I don't think he wanted us to take his meaning of a song as our own. PJ wants us to interpret music into our own way. Sometimes it helps us heal, cry, and even get pissed off. One of the main reasons they wont do videos.

TroubledSoul

You lost me when you said we should celebrate "positive songs.. ..like black".

dwhite76

TroubledSoul wrote:

You lost me when you said we should celebrate "positive songs.. ..like black".

danny

great song!

ckravitz

Ty wrote:

All red and angry about people enjoying a song, doing what they did for "Alive"... build a bridge, Dude! A very odd and angry post. Take a chill pill. And there ain't too much positive about the other songs you listed... :fp:

Seriously.

ckravitz

ForceofNature101 wrote:

The version from MSG II in 2010 is my favorite, the crowd singing along is what makes it for me

I don't see it as trivializing the meaning of the tune but rather the unification of the crowd by singing along to a song they love from a band they love who is playing right in front of their eyes.

I mean it looks obvious that Eddie himself loves it when the crowd sings along, that pretty much speaks for itself

Well said.

Dr. Delight

Bonkers.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Can I wear a Pearl Jam T-Shirt, when I sing along to this song, while at a concert?

badbrains

Ty wrote:

Only clicked on this in hope that Puscifer had covered Better Man.

Hahahahaha I wonder how Maynard would sound! :corn:

badbrains

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Can I wear a Pearl Jam T-Shirt, when I sing along to this song, while at a concert?

Who gives a rats ass what speedy wears!!!!!