seems like the older fans who are always up front can't win. They get blamed for "just standing" there throughout the show and when they do "rock out", they choose the one Pearl Jam tune you shouldn't dance too
I've met Rob
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
I cringe when I hear young men sing the song ...
especially 'as he looks her over' seems to be a favorite line for some,
a little over zealous.
It's my least favorite song but the one I can do the best karaoke, ironic.
I keep in mind everyone can be a Betterman ... person.
But in exposing abuse, couldn't you say the song is a celebration of those that have risen above and give hope to those that feel helpless? I mean c'mon. You could interpret the freaking song a million ways. And none of it goes to folks singing along promoting violence. If that's the case, then couldn't you argue that's what Eddie was doing when he wrote the damn thing in the first place?
I think you may need to step back from your keyboard for a bit. Now I need message board jockeys' permission to sing at concerts. :roll:
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
But in exposing abuse, couldn't you say the song is a celebration of those that have risen above and give hope to those that feel helpless? I mean c'mon. You could interpret the freaking song a million ways. And none of it goes to folks singing along promoting violence. If that's the case, then couldn't you argue that's what Eddie was doing when he wrote the damn thing in the first place?
I think you may need to step back from your keyboard for a bit. Now I need message board jockeys' permission to sing at concerts. :roll:
nope, not at all, all I am saying is think about the the lyrics, I have said that throughout the thread, don't be one of these idiot chicks on Twitter who think it is a love song, if you know the meaning of the song and still want to sing it, cool, the main point of this thread was to bring to light the actual meaning of the song which has been lost, and to get people to think, not saying don't sing, go ahead and sing, just remember there are women in this world who are still getting the crap beat out of them and that was Eddie's original intention was to bring that to light when he wrote that song we should never lose sight of that fact, so sing, but never forget
But in exposing abuse, couldn't you say the song is a celebration of those that have risen above and give hope to those that feel helpless? I mean c'mon. You could interpret the freaking song a million ways. And none of it goes to folks singing along promoting violence. If that's the case, then couldn't you argue that's what Eddie was doing when he wrote the damn thing in the first place?
I think you may need to step back from your keyboard for a bit. Now I need message board jockeys' permission to sing at concerts. :roll:
nope, not at all, all I am saying is think about the the lyrics, I have said that throughout the thread, don't be one of these idiot chicks on Twitter who think it is a love song, if you know the meaning of the song and still want to sing it, cool, the main point of this thread was to bring to light the actual meaning of the song which has been lost, and to get people to think, not saying don't sing, go ahead and sing, just remember there are women in this world who are still getting the crap beat out of them and that was Eddie's original intention was to bring that to light when he wrote that song we should never lose sight of that fact, so sing, but never forget
Relax with the font. You don't need to be the lyrics meaning police. I mean, have you ever heard of folks using Every Breath You Take as their WEDDING song? I mean if that's not the dumbest thing, what is? A song about a stalker being used as a WEDDING song. Yet, 10's of thousands of idiots did that in the 90s.
You can't police stupidity. If this is your biggest concern in that realm, than you're missing a whole wide world of it.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
I understand what the op is saying though... some who sing along don't get it.
You can tell standing there next to them, the enthusiasm of certain lines.
Its a fucking sad song.
It was never a celebration song to me. She's not going anywhere, she is taking it, settling
and that is a huge disappointment to me and perhaps the songwriter.
The song made me angry that women are not more empowered, maybe the songwriter too.
Maybe we both have had this too close in our lives.
And we can remove gender from this because there are plenty of men hurt as well.
Why can't people stop hurting each other?
A side note a new shelter opened here ... 55 beds filled long before it opened.
Living afraid.
now it is, no big deal Pearl Jam has at least 100 other songs which are awesome, so I got to go work another 12 hours, back to the real world, and I think this made a few people think, and whether you agree with my assessment or not, if it brings even a little more awareness to domestic violence, then it did accomplish something, and if we can stop even one more person from having to go through that, then something positive comes from this thread, and that was the reason Eddie wrote the song
I couldn't disagree with the sentiment of the OP more. I think Better Man is a song that needs to be heard live to be fully appreciated. From time to time around here someone will question the best way to get a casual fan ready for their first live PJ experience. Explaining how the Better Man singalong works is a great way.
As a DA survivor (yea me), Better Man is an effing anthem for me. To hear thousands of people sing it at shows all over the world at the direction of its writer is a testament to the song's influence. Keep in mind that some people are belting the song out because they survived, some people because they support the cause, some people because its just a kick ass song. Thank goodness not everyone interprets PJ songs the same way. As Ed says, his lyrics are 3 dimensional, with multiple layers and meanings.
I disagree that the crowd singing along to the song, any song, weakens its message. PJ fans, especially the true fans (i.e., ones who actually know the words) can identify with their music and what the lyrics tell. It's a song impacting you on an emotional level that prompts you to sing out loud to it. So much of PJ's music is full of deeper meaning, and the fans get it. The bands gets it,too, and invites us to join in.
You don't have to be an abused individual to appreciate the message behind "Better Man". And you definitely can't help but feel the power of the song, especially live. I don't mean this in a sacrilegious way, but for me, an EV or PJ show is the closest thing to church I know. A community of people, joined together in the same room, singing aloud. It's uplifting, really.
Think about this... there are plenty of women that HAVE gotten out of abusive relationships. The song can take on a different meaning for them. "can't find a bettermaaannn..."
"oh yes I can, motherfucker!!!"
I remember listening to the song when it first came out and crying because I was sooooo thankful I had gotten myself out of a bad situation. Unfortunately I know a handful of women that feel the same way I do.
I do see your point, though, and will keep it in the back of my mind when I'm singing along!
I remember listening to the song when it first came out and crying because I was sooooo thankful I had gotten myself out of a bad situation. Unfortunately I know a handful of women that feel the same way I do.
As a DA survivor (yea me), Better Man is an effing anthem for me. To hear thousands of people sing it at shows all over the world at the direction of its writer is a testament to the song's influence
this is what is is for me. not necessarily a physically abusive relationship but at the time mentally controlling. actually it was a slight conversation about PJ that put up a huge red flag for his closed mind.
I didnt' want my life to be summed up in a song, a sad song. If you listen the the alternate version, much slower and sadder I think that's what eddie wanted originally. just like REM everybody hurts song. so many of them out there. now when I hear the whole crowd sing it, I'm so glad I'm there and feeling the love that I would have missed out on.
so glad I'm here!
amy
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Ed has gone on and on about the 'exchange' that takes place during live shows between band and audience. I suppose we all conduct ourselves in our own way during that exchange. Songs can take on different meanings, we all feel music different for different reasons. I get where the OP is coming from to an extent - I'm still not sure about the word 'pussification' though. :problem:
now it is, no big deal Pearl Jam has at least 100 other songs which are awesome, so I got to go work another 12 hours, back to the real world, and I think this made a few people think, and whether you agree with my assessment or not, if it brings even a little more awareness to domestic violence, then it did accomplish something, and if we can stop even one more person from having to go through that, then something positive comes from this thread, and that was the reason Eddie wrote the song
The version from MSG II in 2010 is my favorite, the crowd singing along is what makes it for me
I don't see it as trivializing the meaning of the tune but rather the unification of the crowd by singing along to a song they love from a band they love who is playing right in front of their eyes.
I mean it looks obvious that Eddie himself loves it when the crowd sings along, that pretty much speaks for itself
Better Man is about domestic violence? Wow, I had absolutely no fucking idea, I personally want to thank you enlightening me, and bringing awareness to us all.
I wouldn't trade my dedicated to Sean Penn (a much Better Man) Bristow sing a long (a few days before the MSG show mentioned earlier) for anything.
"pussification?" That's the exact point when you lost me. That song has done nothing but kick my sorry ass since the first time I heard it.
Has the song become "pussified" because people misinterpret it's lyrics, or because they sing along to it?
Has the song become a "hollow pop song" because the meaning has actually changed or because you think a sing-along has changed the meaning?
It's also little curious that you complain that the song - which is about women being in an abusive relationship - has become "pussified" - apparently a derivative of the word "pussy" - which is not exactly a women-friendly phrase to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I say it all the time. But if you're so into the song's actual meaning and you think that meaning is getting lost, you might want to change your phrasing. It's like saying you support women's rights because not doing so is very c*ntish. Seems at odds with one another.
Anyway. Not sure what the beef is. People might understand the lyrics, they might not. So long as they're not misinterpreting a song about love for a song promoting Nazi hate rock, can you just get over it? Does the fact that there are people who like "Spin The Black Circle" but don't own vinyl bug you too?
Just seems like a lot of angst over an inconsequential thing.
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This song has taken on a slightly different meaning to me. Im always a little hesitant to assign meaning to a song that might be different than what the writer intended. However isn't that what art is, especially music? The writer puts it out there and it becomes something special to each of us. That's why creating music is such a generous act by the musician.
Anyway... "She dreams in color, she dreams in red" to me is not about the bruises and blood of a battered woman. It is about a woman whose relationship is not living up to her hopes, dreams and expectations that she had when she was young, bold and strong before the day to day struggles and disappointments of reality sunk in to keep her down, talking only to herself. "There's no one else who needs to know, she tells herself"... Not about hiding abuse and pretending it does not exist or not seeking help when needed. To me it's about the power and strength that we all have to persevere through those disappointments by finding your self. No one can really help with that. Obviously, I'm not suggesting any woman put up with domestic violence. That's just not what this song means to me. It's about every relationship that has struggles along the way. You might even fall into and out of love with each other at times. But you persist and find that in the end you are better for each other. Especially when Ed throws in " don't run away, run away, run away....DON'T LET ME GO!!!" It's about growing together, finding each other, becoming the betterman/woman. The wonderfully uplifting melody and tempo only serve to reinforce this sense of strength that this song gives me.
I plan to stand right next to you and sing my heart out with everybody else, bc to me this sing is about power, strength and perseverance to overcome the normal struggles that most long term relationships encounter on their way to real understanding and true love.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's why I sing along.
Jen
5/3/92 Omaha, NE
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Only clicked on this in hope that Puscifer had covered Better Man.
I was totally hoping for this one too!
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I have nothing wrong with singing along to it, but I completely understand the meaning of it. I find it funny when some people will recommend it as a wedding song though, heh. :roll:
This song has taken on a slightly different meaning to me. Im always a little hesitant to assign meaning to a song that might be different than what the writer intended. However isn't that what art is, especially music? The writer puts it out there and it becomes something special to each of us. That's why creating music is such a generous act by the musician.
Anyway... "She dreams in color, she dreams in red" to me is not about the bruises and blood of a battered woman. It is about a woman whose relationship is not living up to her hopes, dreams and expectations that she had when she was young, bold and strong before the day to day struggles and disappointments of reality sunk in to keep her down, talking only to herself.
HELL YES!!!!!! Couldn't have stated it better!!
To me this song is about lying to yourself, trying to make yourself believe something's okay when your gut knows damn well that it isn't, and both men and women do that. So using the word "pussified" is really curious, not to mention objectionable, and totally negates what I think was the intent of the OP. I sing my heart out to this song whether it's live in concert or on my iPod because it's my anthem, my reminder that I got out. Relationships don't have to be physically abusive to still be absolutely shitty and totally wrong to be in....
Anyway... "She dreams in color, she dreams in red" to me is not about the bruises and blood of a battered woman. It is about a woman whose relationship is not living up to her hopes, dreams and expectations that she had when she was young, bold and strong before the day to day struggles and disappointments of reality sunk in to keep her down, talking only to herself. "There's no one else who needs to know, she tells herself"... Not about hiding abuse and pretending it does not exist or not seeking help when needed. To me it's about the power and strength that we all have to persevere through those disappointments by finding your self. No one can really help with that. Obviously, I'm not suggesting any woman put up with domestic violence. That's just not what this song means to me. It's about every relationship that has struggles along the way. You might even fall into and out of love with each other at times. But you persist and find that in the end you are better for each other. Especially when Ed throws in " don't run away, run away, run away....DON'T LET ME GO!!!" It's about growing together, finding each other, becoming the betterman/woman. The wonderfully uplifting melody and tempo only serve to reinforce this sense of strength that this song gives me.
I plan to stand right next to you and sing my heart out with everybody else, bc to me this sing is about power, strength and perseverance to overcome the normal struggles that most long term relationships encounter on their way to real understanding and true love.
This song has taken on a slightly different meaning to me. Im always a little hesitant to assign meaning to a song that might be different than what the writer intended. However isn't that what art is, especially music? The writer puts it out there and it becomes something special to each of us. That's why creating music is such a generous act by the musician.
Anyway... "She dreams in color, she dreams in red" to me is not about the bruises and blood of a battered woman. It is about a woman whose relationship is not living up to her hopes, dreams and expectations that she had when she was young, bold and strong before the day to day struggles and disappointments of reality sunk in to keep her down, talking only to herself. "There's no one else who needs to know, she tells herself"... Not about hiding abuse and pretending it does not exist or not seeking help when needed. To me it's about the power and strength that we all have to persevere through those disappointments by finding your self. No one can really help with that. Obviously, I'm not suggesting any woman put up with domestic violence. That's just not what this song means to me. It's about every relationship that has struggles along the way. You might even fall into and out of love with each other at times. But you persist and find that in the end you are better for each other. Especially when Ed throws in " don't run away, run away, run away....DON'T LET ME GO!!!" It's about growing together, finding each other, becoming the betterman/woman. The wonderfully uplifting melody and tempo only serve to reinforce this sense of strength that this song gives me.
I plan to stand right next to you and sing my heart out with everybody else, bc to me this sing is about power, strength and perseverance to overcome the normal struggles that most long term relationships encounter on their way to real understanding and true love.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's why I sing along.
Jen
GO Jen!!
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Comments
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
"Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
especially 'as he looks her over' seems to be a favorite line for some,
a little over zealous.
It's my least favorite song but the one I can do the best karaoke, ironic.
I keep in mind everyone can be a Betterman ... person.
I think you may need to step back from your keyboard for a bit. Now I need message board jockeys' permission to sing at concerts. :roll:
He is encouraging the crowd to sing. So I don't think there is room for any moral high ground here!
Relax with the font. You don't need to be the lyrics meaning police. I mean, have you ever heard of folks using Every Breath You Take as their WEDDING song? I mean if that's not the dumbest thing, what is? A song about a stalker being used as a WEDDING song. Yet, 10's of thousands of idiots did that in the 90s.
You can't police stupidity. If this is your biggest concern in that realm, than you're missing a whole wide world of it.
You can tell standing there next to them, the enthusiasm of certain lines.
Its a fucking sad song.
It was never a celebration song to me. She's not going anywhere, she is taking it, settling
and that is a huge disappointment to me and perhaps the songwriter.
The song made me angry that women are not more empowered, maybe the songwriter too.
Maybe we both have had this too close in our lives.
And we can remove gender from this because there are plenty of men hurt as well.
Why can't people stop hurting each other?
A side note a new shelter opened here ... 55 beds filled long before it opened.
Living afraid.
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
"Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
anything written in big font makes it true.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
All this.
2013 Wrigley
2013 Dallas
2013 Oklahoma City
2013 Seattle
How I choose to feel is how I am.
There's just one word I still believe...and it's LOVE.
"Take care of one another..." -EV
2013 Wrigley
2013 Dallas
2013 Oklahoma City
2013 Seattle
How I choose to feel is how I am.
There's just one word I still believe...and it's LOVE.
"Take care of one another..." -EV
You don't have to be an abused individual to appreciate the message behind "Better Man". And you definitely can't help but feel the power of the song, especially live. I don't mean this in a sacrilegious way, but for me, an EV or PJ show is the closest thing to church I know. A community of people, joined together in the same room, singing aloud. It's uplifting, really.
"oh yes I can, motherfucker!!!"
I remember listening to the song when it first came out and crying because I was sooooo thankful I had gotten myself out of a bad situation. Unfortunately I know a handful of women that feel the same way I do.
I do see your point, though, and will keep it in the back of my mind when I'm singing along!
this is what is is for me. not necessarily a physically abusive relationship but at the time mentally controlling. actually it was a slight conversation about PJ that put up a huge red flag for his closed mind.
I didnt' want my life to be summed up in a song, a sad song. If you listen the the alternate version, much slower and sadder I think that's what eddie wanted originally. just like REM everybody hurts song. so many of them out there. now when I hear the whole crowd sing it, I'm so glad I'm there and feeling the love that I would have missed out on.
so glad I'm here!
amy
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
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Better Man is about domestic violence? Wow, I had absolutely no fucking idea, I personally want to thank you enlightening me, and bringing awareness to us all.
I wouldn't trade my dedicated to Sean Penn (a much Better Man) Bristow sing a long (a few days before the MSG show mentioned earlier) for anything.
"pussification?" That's the exact point when you lost me. That song has done nothing but kick my sorry ass since the first time I heard it.
Has the song become "pussified" because people misinterpret it's lyrics, or because they sing along to it?
Has the song become a "hollow pop song" because the meaning has actually changed or because you think a sing-along has changed the meaning?
It's also little curious that you complain that the song - which is about women being in an abusive relationship - has become "pussified" - apparently a derivative of the word "pussy" - which is not exactly a women-friendly phrase to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I say it all the time. But if you're so into the song's actual meaning and you think that meaning is getting lost, you might want to change your phrasing. It's like saying you support women's rights because not doing so is very c*ntish. Seems at odds with one another.
Anyway. Not sure what the beef is. People might understand the lyrics, they might not. So long as they're not misinterpreting a song about love for a song promoting Nazi hate rock, can you just get over it? Does the fact that there are people who like "Spin The Black Circle" but don't own vinyl bug you too?
Just seems like a lot of angst over an inconsequential thing.
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Anyway... "She dreams in color, she dreams in red" to me is not about the bruises and blood of a battered woman. It is about a woman whose relationship is not living up to her hopes, dreams and expectations that she had when she was young, bold and strong before the day to day struggles and disappointments of reality sunk in to keep her down, talking only to herself. "There's no one else who needs to know, she tells herself"... Not about hiding abuse and pretending it does not exist or not seeking help when needed. To me it's about the power and strength that we all have to persevere through those disappointments by finding your self. No one can really help with that. Obviously, I'm not suggesting any woman put up with domestic violence. That's just not what this song means to me. It's about every relationship that has struggles along the way. You might even fall into and out of love with each other at times. But you persist and find that in the end you are better for each other. Especially when Ed throws in " don't run away, run away, run away....DON'T LET ME GO!!!" It's about growing together, finding each other, becoming the betterman/woman. The wonderfully uplifting melody and tempo only serve to reinforce this sense of strength that this song gives me.
I plan to stand right next to you and sing my heart out with everybody else, bc to me this sing is about power, strength and perseverance to overcome the normal struggles that most long term relationships encounter on their way to real understanding and true love.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's why I sing along.
Jen
6/19/95 Red Rocks
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I was totally hoping for this one too!
HELL YES!!!!!! Couldn't have stated it better!!
To me this song is about lying to yourself, trying to make yourself believe something's okay when your gut knows damn well that it isn't, and both men and women do that. So using the word "pussified" is really curious, not to mention objectionable, and totally negates what I think was the intent of the OP. I sing my heart out to this song whether it's live in concert or on my iPod because it's my anthem, my reminder that I got out. Relationships don't have to be physically abusive to still be absolutely shitty and totally wrong to be in....
EXACTLY.
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