Oh my so maybe just to let everyone know what the song is about they should show videos of battered women through out the song that should put a stop to any sing along .....or maybe you should just head to the bathroom ...
It's nice to hear the positive twist put on this song ... how some personal experiences
molded the song into being a song of empowerment. This is wonderful for those fortunate
and in a position to overcome. I'm afraid for me it speaks to the sadness of reality.
So many women will never have this positive outcome.
"She needs him, yeah, that's why she'll be back again" if she ever has the courage and support
to leave. Another woman hunted down this week with the final punishment,
she won't have to be afraid anymore, the scars remain for her children to carry,
both son and daughter.
This song has taken on a slightly different meaning to me. Im always a little hesitant to assign meaning to a song that might be different than what the writer intended. However isn't that what art is, especially music? The writer puts it out there and it becomes something special to each of us. That's why creating music is such a generous act by the musician.
Anyway... "She dreams in color, she dreams in red" to me is not about the bruises and blood of a battered woman. It is about a woman whose relationship is not living up to her hopes, dreams and expectations that she had when she was young, bold and strong before the day to day struggles and disappointments of reality sunk in to keep her down, talking only to herself. "There's no one else who needs to know, she tells herself"... Not about hiding abuse and pretending it does not exist or not seeking help when needed. To me it's about the power and strength that we all have to persevere through those disappointments by finding your self. No one can really help with that. Obviously, I'm not suggesting any woman put up with domestic violence. That's just not what this song means to me. It's about every relationship that has struggles along the way. You might even fall into and out of love with each other at times. But you persist and find that in the end you are better for each other. Especially when Ed throws in " don't run away, run away, run away....DON'T LET ME GO!!!" It's about growing together, finding each other, becoming the betterman/woman. The wonderfully uplifting melody and tempo only serve to reinforce this sense of strength that this song gives me.
I plan to stand right next to you and sing my heart out with everybody else, bc to me this sing is about power, strength and perseverance to overcome the normal struggles that most long term relationships encounter on their way to real understanding and true love.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's why I sing along.
Jen
GO Jen!!
Thanks. I obviously love this song and can't wait to hear it again live with all of you around me!
5/3/92 Omaha, NE
6/19/95 Red Rocks
9/11/98 MSG
11/19/12 EV solo Tulsa
7/19/13 Wrigley 10/19/13 Brooklyn 2 10/21/13 Philly 1 10/22/13 Philly 2 10/25/13 Hartford
10/08/14 Tulsa 10/09/14 Lincoln
9/26/15 New York City
4/16/16 Greenville 4/28/16 Philly 1 4/29/16 Philly 2 5/1/16 MSG 1 5/2/16 MSG 2 8/7/16 Fenway 2 8/20/16 Wrigley 1 4/7/17 RRHOF New York City 9/02/18 Fenway 1 9/04/2018 Fenway 2 9/18/21 Asbury Park 9/11/22 New York City 9/14/22 Camden
This song has taken on a slightly different meaning to me. Im always a little hesitant to assign meaning to a song that might be different than what the writer intended. However isn't that what art is, especially music? The writer puts it out there and it becomes something special to each of us. That's why creating music is such a generous act by the musician.
Anyway... "She dreams in color, she dreams in red" to me is not about the bruises and blood of a battered woman. It is about a woman whose relationship is not living up to her hopes, dreams and expectations that she had when she was young, bold and strong before the day to day struggles and disappointments of reality sunk in to keep her down, talking only to herself. "There's no one else who needs to know, she tells herself"... Not about hiding abuse and pretending it does not exist or not seeking help when needed. To me it's about the power and strength that we all have to persevere through those disappointments by finding your self. No one can really help with that. Obviously, I'm not suggesting any woman put up with domestic violence. That's just not what this song means to me. It's about every relationship that has struggles along the way. You might even fall into and out of love with each other at times. But you persist and find that in the end you are better for each other. Especially when Ed throws in " don't run away, run away, run away....DON'T LET ME GO!!!" It's about growing together, finding each other, becoming the betterman/woman. The wonderfully uplifting melody and tempo only serve to reinforce this sense of strength that this song gives me.
I plan to stand right next to you and sing my heart out with everybody else, bc to me this sing is about power, strength and perseverance to overcome the normal struggles that most long term relationships encounter on their way to real understanding and true love.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's why I sing along.
Jen
Beautifully written. Well done friend! :thumbup:
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
Thanks oceaninmyeyes! I feel a group hug coming on...
5/3/92 Omaha, NE
6/19/95 Red Rocks
9/11/98 MSG
11/19/12 EV solo Tulsa
7/19/13 Wrigley 10/19/13 Brooklyn 2 10/21/13 Philly 1 10/22/13 Philly 2 10/25/13 Hartford
10/08/14 Tulsa 10/09/14 Lincoln
9/26/15 New York City
4/16/16 Greenville 4/28/16 Philly 1 4/29/16 Philly 2 5/1/16 MSG 1 5/2/16 MSG 2 8/7/16 Fenway 2 8/20/16 Wrigley 1 4/7/17 RRHOF New York City 9/02/18 Fenway 1 9/04/2018 Fenway 2 9/18/21 Asbury Park 9/11/22 New York City 9/14/22 Camden
I'm interested that a man who is,seemingly,saying he is anti domestic violence and therefore by extension in a place of respecting feminism and women's rights would use the sexually derogatory term 'pussification' in the title of the thread.
For me this is utterly incongruent with the point you seem to be trying to make.
Given To Live -
Latest story - Declan at Slipknot is up on the website now at www.giventolive.com along with Kayleigh at Foo Fighters, Tony at Stereophonics and more.
Inspired by Pearl Jam, making live music dreams come true.
now it is, no big deal Pearl Jam has at least 100 other songs which are awesome, so I got to go work another 12 hours, back to the real world, and I think this made a few people think, and whether you agree with my assessment or not, if it brings even a little more awareness to domestic violence, then it did accomplish something, and if we can stop even one more person from having to go through that, then something positive comes from this thread, and that was the reason Eddie wrote the song
Go Hank...got to admire him for sticking to his guns all the way through this self-ignited thread... :twisted:
Anyway... "She dreams in color, she dreams in red" to me is not about the bruises and blood of a battered woman. It is about a woman whose relationship is not living up to her hopes, dreams and expectations that she had when she was young, bold and strong before the day to day struggles and disappointments of reality sunk in to keep her down, talking only to herself. "There's no one else who needs to know, she tells herself"... Not about hiding abuse and pretending it does not exist or not seeking help when needed. To me it's about the power and strength that we all have to persevere through those disappointments by finding your self. No one can really help with that. Obviously, I'm not suggesting any woman put up with domestic violence. That's just not what this song means to me. It's about every relationship that has struggles along the way. You might even fall into and out of love with each other at times. But you persist and find that in the end you are better for each other. Especially when Ed throws in " don't run away, run away, run away....DON'T LET ME GO!!!" It's about growing together, finding each other, becoming the betterman/woman. The wonderfully uplifting melody and tempo only serve to reinforce this sense of strength that this song gives me.
I plan to stand right next to you and sing my heart out with everybody else, bc to me this sing is about power, strength and perseverance to overcome the normal struggles that most long term relationships encounter on their way to real understanding and true love.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's why I sing along.
Jen
and thats what i think - have always thought - about when i heard this song.
makes me want to be a betterman for my lady everytime i hear it.
It's a hopeless... situation
And I'm starting to believe
I'm interested that a man who is,seemingly,saying he is anti domestic violence and therefore by extension in a place of respecting feminism and women's rights would use the sexually derogatory term 'pussification' in the title of the thread.
For me this is utterly incongruent with the point you seem to be trying to make.
:corn:
It's a hopeless... situation
And I'm starting to believe
I know what the song is about, and have done for years.
When I saw them live last year, I was singing as loud as I could. Not in any way to disrespect the meaning of Ed's lyrics, or anyone who's been effected by domestic violence but because I was sharing a freaking awesome moment with my favorite band and a shit load of like minded people.
I loved it, it was one of the biggest highlights for me at Isle of Wight and Manchester.
It never occurred to me that so many fans were so fucking stupid as to not understand that the song is about a woman who is being abused and can't get out of the relationship...... Oh right. They're not.
I do not see how people singing along to it takes away from the meaning of the lyrics. It doesn't for me AT ALL, and I've sung along to it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think that Big Bank Hank is making a point here. The title of this thread however is at the same instance somewhat misleading; I thought that Puscifer had covered the song! The "pussification" of Better Man is somewhat, I don't know, negatively charging the meaning of the song title. Why call it "pussification" and not "returning to the original meaning of Betterman"? The word "pussification" itself is somewhat interested wording.
That all said however, from my perspective this song is about domestic violence; either physical, verbal or mental; but also (and even more so) the complexities of domestic violence. (*She* feeds him...) Everyone who has seen domestic violence up close, know that people within these kind of relationships are somewhat locked in this self-destructive dance. When she feeds him therefore, or stays in the relationship or "don't run away" because she is no longer "strong, bold and young"; it is not because she is growing closer to the person, (so with this I disagree Jen), but because she believes "she can't find a betterman". The colour red, often associated with anger, could symbolize the anger of her own powerless situation. So I can see Big Bank Hank's point.
That said however, I also believe - and I think that there are statements made as such - that this song, just as Alive, is highly personal and auto-biographical. I also presume this because of the time frame the original song was written in. (I believe that this song is even written before Alive.) Therefore singing along to this song is not, from my point of view at least, demeaning the meaning of the song, but actually an attempt to *relate* and *identify*. Hearing 10 000 people singing back to you, your own personal experiences, must be a very humbling experience. Its singing along to reach out and to say "I know, I understand" - that is at least how I always interpreted it. It is therefore not singing along and changing the meaning of the song as Alive did - for the original meaning I had read in an interview was about suicide - but singing along to reach out to all those who are silenced. That in itself is a form of empowerment.
This song has taken on a slightly different meaning to me. Im always a little hesitant to assign meaning to a song that might be different than what the writer intended. However isn't that what art is, especially music? The writer puts it out there and it becomes something special to each of us. That's why creating music is such a generous act by the musician.
Anyway... "She dreams in color, she dreams in red" to me is not about the bruises and blood of a battered woman. It is about a woman whose relationship is not living up to her hopes, dreams and expectations that she had when she was young, bold and strong before the day to day struggles and disappointments of reality sunk in to keep her down, talking only to herself. "There's no one else who needs to know, she tells herself"... Not about hiding abuse and pretending it does not exist or not seeking help when needed. To me it's about the power and strength that we all have to persevere through those disappointments by finding your self. No one can really help with that. Obviously, I'm not suggesting any woman put up with domestic violence. That's just not what this song means to me. It's about every relationship that has struggles along the way. You might even fall into and out of love with each other at times. But you persist and find that in the end you are better for each other. Especially when Ed throws in " don't run away, run away, run away....DON'T LET ME GO!!!" It's about growing together, finding each other, becoming the betterman/woman. The wonderfully uplifting melody and tempo only serve to reinforce this sense of strength that this song gives me.
I plan to stand right next to you and sing my heart out with everybody else, bc to me this sing is about power, strength and perseverance to overcome the normal struggles that most long term relationships encounter on their way to real understanding and true love.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's why I sing along.
Jen
Absolutely!!!
No one can tell me what I'm thinking when I'm singing along to a song!
You don't have to sit and analyse the lyrics to enjoy them, the way I see it Pearl Jam share their songs with us not lend them to us...
I'm interested that a man who is,seemingly,saying he is anti domestic violence and therefore by extension in a place of respecting feminism and women's rights would use the sexually derogatory term 'pussification' in the title of the thread.
For me this is utterly incongruent with the point you seem to be trying to make.
I have to say that I felt it was a little bizarre as well.
Post edited by oceaninmyeyes on
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
Although there probably isn't much to add to this thread, I will say that Eddie has dedicated "Betterman" to Charlie DeFabio, Philadelphia Spectrum employee, twice. Are we to assume that Charlie has some kind of history of domestic abuse and Eddie is publicly shaming this old man or can we safely assume that Eddie also sees an alternative meaning to the lyrics?
BTW I understand what the original poster is trying to point out........
and for 81..
President Obama is coming for your guns !
I'm gone ..Long gone..This time I'm letting go of it all...So long...Cause this time I'm gone
Although there probably isn't much to add to this thread, I will say that Eddie has dedicated "Betterman" to Charlie DeFabio, Philadelphia Spectrum employee, twice. Are we to assume that Charlie has some kind of history of domestic abuse and Eddie is publicly shaming this old man or can we safely assume that Eddie also sees an alternative meaning to the lyrics?
BTW I understand what the original poster is trying to point out........
and for 81..
President Obama is coming for your guns !
He dedicated it to John Tester in MT too.
Eddie is perfectly open to his songs having different meanings and everything (just like he's said that the meaning of Alive has changed for him since it was written). The meaning of Better Man hasn't changed because the lyrics really are so clear that it's not open for interpretation, BUT that doesn't mean that the same emotion has to be attached to it all the time, and certainly not that people shouldn't be happy about singing it at the top of their lungs.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Its like the Police and Every Breath You Take. Its a creepy song about stalking. Sting couldn't understand why people were playing it at weddings.
That is a pretty weird song to play at a wedding! But surely musicians understand that not everyone 1) even listens to what the lyrics actually are carefully, or 2) takes lyrics in the same way that they were intended. Eddie certainly understands that people place different meanings on his lyrics than what he personally meant by them (although I don't think that counts for Better Man - the lyrics are too explicit in their meaning to really be interpreted a different way).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Funny...the only reason I want to hear Betterman at a show is the intro/sing-a-long. I get the chills most times. Oh and also the Save it for later tag.
Otherwise I could care less if they ever played it again. I did like what Ed did with it for his solo show.
"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave up reading." - Henry Youngman
I thought Ed said the song was about George Bush during the VH1 Storytellers? When I heard that I knew the setlist and stories would suck (outside of Alive).
I'm interested that a man who is,seemingly,saying he is anti domestic violence and therefore by extension in a place of respecting feminism and women's rights would use the sexually derogatory term 'pussification' in the title of the thread.
For me this is utterly incongruent with the point you seem to be trying to make.
I have to say that I felt it was a little bizarre as well.
Yep, I agree. Out of fear of starting another thread on derogatory words or wording - considering a thread awhile back - I tried to diplomatically emphasize and raise this in my post, but I agree. The title seems what "off".
I thought Ed said the song was about George Bush during the VH1 Storytellers? When I heard that I knew the setlist and stories would suck (outside of Alive).
Well, to be honest, I can see this methaphore. (Reminds me of APC and the song "Pet".) Sometimes we "choose" our abusive relationships and like I stated, I think it is about the complexity of domestic violence instead of the violence itself. (domestic violence/ domestic politics - see a connection there.)
Historically, the song was written way before George W. Bush snorted his first line of cocaine. So, I would take this comparison with a grain of salt; I think it is more a dedication to Good Ol' Bush and his domestic policies .
I liked the stories at Storytellers btw. I thought they were well thought-out and touching.
All red and angry about people enjoying a song, doing what they did for "Alive"... build a bridge, Dude! A very odd and angry post. Take a chill pill. And there ain't too much positive about the other songs you listed... :fp:
lets see one song is a bout a kid who didn't get to know his father, however that was something he overcame, but that was his own inner struggle, I use to see Better Man for what it was speaking out against domestic violence, and I always thought it was an advocacy for that, yeah lets end domestic violence, and it was one of my favorite Pearl Jam songs, now it's current form, and the way people sing the lyrics hollow, with no sense of what the song is really about, just sad, go ahead and sing it if you want and celebrate women getting the crap out of them, because is what the song is about, I guess if you never grew up around it, then of course you wouldn't get it
Suggesting I celebrate women getting the crap belt out of them? Let's lock this one up... Big Bank Hank, go fuck yourself!
PJ - Sydney 1998; Sydney 2003; Sydney, Melbourne, Newcastle 2006; Melbourne, Sydney 2009; Gold Coast, Melbourne, Sydney 2014.
EV - Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney 2011; Sydney 2014.
in agreement with the derogatory term. although I think the word came from pussywillow which is soft and I think the OP is implying the growth of the song with the audience has softened the hard facts of domestic violence. just a gues, wikipedia says origins unknown but mostly vugar and derogertory.
its about something we need to be who we are because we are so used to and at the same time you find yourself not being able to stand who are because of what you have to go thru everyday; not knowing if you're strong enough to make a change and ultimately scared to death either way.
Amy The Great #74594
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Choccoloccotide
A grass shack nailed to a pinewood floor Posts: 810
I have never particularly liked the song that much, even though hearing the intro live is cool.
Comments
molded the song into being a song of empowerment. This is wonderful for those fortunate
and in a position to overcome. I'm afraid for me it speaks to the sadness of reality.
So many women will never have this positive outcome.
"She needs him, yeah, that's why she'll be back again" if she ever has the courage and support
to leave. Another woman hunted down this week with the final punishment,
she won't have to be afraid anymore, the scars remain for her children to carry,
both son and daughter.
Thanks. I obviously love this song and can't wait to hear it again live with all of you around me!
6/19/95 Red Rocks
9/11/98 MSG
11/19/12 EV solo Tulsa
7/19/13 Wrigley 10/19/13 Brooklyn 2 10/21/13 Philly 1 10/22/13 Philly 2 10/25/13 Hartford
10/08/14 Tulsa 10/09/14 Lincoln
9/26/15 New York City
4/16/16 Greenville 4/28/16 Philly 1 4/29/16 Philly 2 5/1/16 MSG 1 5/2/16 MSG 2 8/7/16 Fenway 2 8/20/16 Wrigley 1
4/7/17 RRHOF New York City
9/02/18 Fenway 1 9/04/2018 Fenway 2
9/18/21 Asbury Park
9/11/22 New York City
9/14/22 Camden
Beautifully written. Well done friend!
Thanks oceaninmyeyes! I feel a group hug coming on...
6/19/95 Red Rocks
9/11/98 MSG
11/19/12 EV solo Tulsa
7/19/13 Wrigley 10/19/13 Brooklyn 2 10/21/13 Philly 1 10/22/13 Philly 2 10/25/13 Hartford
10/08/14 Tulsa 10/09/14 Lincoln
9/26/15 New York City
4/16/16 Greenville 4/28/16 Philly 1 4/29/16 Philly 2 5/1/16 MSG 1 5/2/16 MSG 2 8/7/16 Fenway 2 8/20/16 Wrigley 1
4/7/17 RRHOF New York City
9/02/18 Fenway 1 9/04/2018 Fenway 2
9/18/21 Asbury Park
9/11/22 New York City
9/14/22 Camden
For me this is utterly incongruent with the point you seem to be trying to make.
Latest story - Declan at Slipknot is up on the website now at www.giventolive.com along with Kayleigh at Foo Fighters, Tony at Stereophonics and more.
Inspired by Pearl Jam, making live music dreams come true.
Go Hank...got to admire him for sticking to his guns all the way through this self-ignited thread... :twisted:
and thats what i think - have always thought - about when i heard this song.
makes me want to be a betterman for my lady everytime i hear it.
And I'm starting to believe
:corn:
And I'm starting to believe
When I saw them live last year, I was singing as loud as I could. Not in any way to disrespect the meaning of Ed's lyrics, or anyone who's been effected by domestic violence but because I was sharing a freaking awesome moment with my favorite band and a shit load of like minded people.
I loved it, it was one of the biggest highlights for me at Isle of Wight and Manchester.
I do not see how people singing along to it takes away from the meaning of the lyrics. It doesn't for me AT ALL, and I've sung along to it.
Where'd you hear that 81, on the Internet????
That all said however, from my perspective this song is about domestic violence; either physical, verbal or mental; but also (and even more so) the complexities of domestic violence. (*She* feeds him...) Everyone who has seen domestic violence up close, know that people within these kind of relationships are somewhat locked in this self-destructive dance. When she feeds him therefore, or stays in the relationship or "don't run away" because she is no longer "strong, bold and young"; it is not because she is growing closer to the person, (so with this I disagree Jen), but because she believes "she can't find a betterman". The colour red, often associated with anger, could symbolize the anger of her own powerless situation. So I can see Big Bank Hank's point.
That said however, I also believe - and I think that there are statements made as such - that this song, just as Alive, is highly personal and auto-biographical. I also presume this because of the time frame the original song was written in. (I believe that this song is even written before Alive.) Therefore singing along to this song is not, from my point of view at least, demeaning the meaning of the song, but actually an attempt to *relate* and *identify*. Hearing 10 000 people singing back to you, your own personal experiences, must be a very humbling experience. Its singing along to reach out and to say "I know, I understand" - that is at least how I always interpreted it. It is therefore not singing along and changing the meaning of the song as Alive did - for the original meaning I had read in an interview was about suicide - but singing along to reach out to all those who are silenced. That in itself is a form of empowerment.
Absolutely!!!
No one can tell me what I'm thinking when I'm singing along to a song!
You don't have to sit and analyse the lyrics to enjoy them, the way I see it Pearl Jam share their songs with us not lend them to us...
I have to say that I felt it was a little bizarre as well.
BTW I understand what the original poster is trying to point out........
and for 81..
President Obama is coming for your guns !
Eddie is perfectly open to his songs having different meanings and everything (just like he's said that the meaning of Alive has changed for him since it was written). The meaning of Better Man hasn't changed because the lyrics really are so clear that it's not open for interpretation, BUT that doesn't mean that the same emotion has to be attached to it all the time, and certainly not that people shouldn't be happy about singing it at the top of their lungs.
Otherwise I could care less if they ever played it again. I did like what Ed did with it for his solo show.
Yep, I agree. Out of fear of starting another thread on derogatory words or wording - considering a thread awhile back - I tried to diplomatically emphasize and raise this in my post, but I agree. The title seems what "off".
Well, to be honest, I can see this methaphore. (Reminds me of APC and the song "Pet".) Sometimes we "choose" our abusive relationships and like I stated, I think it is about the complexity of domestic violence instead of the violence itself. (domestic violence/ domestic politics - see a connection there.)
Historically, the song was written way before George W. Bush snorted his first line of cocaine. So, I would take this comparison with a grain of salt; I think it is more a dedication to Good Ol' Bush and his domestic policies
I liked the stories at Storytellers btw. I thought they were well thought-out and touching.
Suggesting I celebrate women getting the crap belt out of them? Let's lock this one up... Big Bank Hank, go fuck yourself!
EV - Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney 2011; Sydney 2014.
IBTL !!!!
its about something we need to be who we are because we are so used to and at the same time you find yourself not being able to stand who are because of what you have to go thru everyday; not knowing if you're strong enough to make a change and ultimately scared to death either way.
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016
Missoula MT 2018