Guns.

Tim Simmons

njhaley1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

DE4173 said:

pdalowsky said:

Everywhere I look there is an undercurrent of people revelling in his death - in every thread on social media there are laughing emoji, comments about him getting what he had coming, snide remarks and it goes on and on. 

In the immediate aftermath of the death of a young man, guilty of nothing but debating things openly to all who wanted to engage, a father and husband and these reactions are out there in plain view and numerous, well that speaks volumes of the kind of world we all live in. 

Pathetic. 

Also, the whataboutism here isn't surprising and so on brand.

In what way? 

What "whataboutism" are you referring to?

"The only ones people are trying to assassinate are Republicans" 

"what about the politicians from Minnesota? Pelosi? Shapiro?"

"the whataboutism here isn't surprising." 

To be clear, should that first thing just hang out there with no clarification or correction? Just let it exist as fact? 

HughFreakingDillon

Thousands of school shootings where children are slaughtered 
Republicans: thoughts and prayers
Reaction: that’s acceptable 

One hateful POS who publicly stated “gun deaths were "worth it" to ensure the preservation of Second Amendment rights in the US” gets murdered
Democrats: ok
Reaction: you people are vile and evil

the bar is always so much lower for republicans 

njhaley1

Tim Simmons said:

njhaley1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

DE4173 said:

pdalowsky said:

Everywhere I look there is an undercurrent of people revelling in his death - in every thread on social media there are laughing emoji, comments about him getting what he had coming, snide remarks and it goes on and on. 

In the immediate aftermath of the death of a young man, guilty of nothing but debating things openly to all who wanted to engage, a father and husband and these reactions are out there in plain view and numerous, well that speaks volumes of the kind of world we all live in. 

Pathetic. 

Also, the whataboutism here isn't surprising and so on brand.

In what way? 

What "whataboutism" are you referring to?

"The only ones people are trying to assassinate are Republicans" 

"what about the politicians from Minnesota? Pelosi? Shapiro?"

"the whataboutism here isn't surprising." 

To be clear, should that first thing just hang out there with no clarification or correction? Just let it exist as fact? 

The sad part is it is a fact in that person's mind, and others who think that way. The other examples don't count. 

static111

https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/charlie-kirk-legacy

We can honor the sadness millions are feeling over Kirk’s murder, and maintain basic civil human decency, while also being honest about the deeply harmful and offensive things Charlie Kirk said. We can condemn political violence and Kirk’s murder while also condemning Charlie Kirk for the rotten, vile hatred he fomented.

And yes, while respecting that many are mourning, this is precisely the time to remind people of the hatred and division Kirk sowed and profited handsomely from.

Consider what Kirk said about Black women leaders and affirmative action. Assailing affirmative action “picks” Joy Reid, Michelle Obama, Ketanji Brown Jackson, and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, Kirk said, sickeningly, “you do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken seriously” without affirmative action. “You had to steal a white person’s slot.”

Let’s sit with that for a moment. Charlie Kirk said these exceedingly smart, strong, successful Black women do not have brain processing power. This is the supposed hero for whom Trump lowered the flag to half-mast.

Kirk was an equal opportunity hater who called Martin Luther King, Jr. “awful,” and “not a good person,” while insisting, “We made a huge mistake when we passed the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s.”

In his gruesome rage against affirmative action and diversity, equity, and inclusion, Kirk also spat out, “If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, ‘Boy, I hope he’s qualified.’” That is some deeply racist garbage.

Kirk called gay and transgender people “groomers” who are “destructive,” opposed gay marriage, and campaigned against gender-affirming care for transgender people, insisting, “We must ban trans-affirming care—the entire country. Donald Trump needs to run on this issue,” Media Matters reported.

gimmesometruth27

east_ia_pj_fan said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

east_ia_pj_fan said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

ugh horrible news. i was on the road all day at accounts 3 hours away and the first thing i saw when i checked my facebook feed tonight was the close up video of him being shot.

i hate guns. i hate political violence. i disliked kirk strongly, but he did not deserve what happened to him. i hate that it happened, and i hate what will probably happen in retaliation. 

his body isn't even cold yet and we do not know the motive of the shooter for certain. could have been a left winger, could have been a disgruntled maga upset that he said he would no longer discuss the epstein files stuff. all we know is this happened in ruby red utah of all places.

what i do know is that i have seen every democrat on threads expressing sympathy to kirk's family and followers, and every republican demonizing democrats. they are not the same. these are the same people that laugh about paul pelosi and made up conspiracy theories about him. these are the people that said nothing when giffords was shot, nothing when the MN lawmakers were shot. there is a decency that needs to be expressed, and not everyone is doing that. 

the right can hate the left when they figure out the shooter was a leftist. 

I disagree on that. You shouldn’t hate a whole group based on the actions of one individual.

i agree. you shouldn't. but people are already calling for violence against the left and they do not even know the motive of this shooter. they are being reactive, and not responding. 

i get it. there is a visceral reaction and a rush to judgement. people want someone to blame. i get it. i get that way sometimes, but then i realize they do not even have the facts other than he was shot from some distance away and last i saw the person of interest that was in custody was released. from what i can tell they do not even have a suspect yet.

There is one side that seems to be the main recipients of the assassination attempts.

which one is that?

Oh, I don't know.  Google recent assassination attempts and see what you find

no. say what you mean. 

Gern Blansten

njhaley1 said:

pdalowsky said:

In the immediate aftermath of the senseless death of a young man like Charlie there is seemingly a strong need from both sides to blame the other, or to compare it to another tragedy. 

But it is the mocking and obvious satisfaction exhibited from those who didn't agree with him that makes me sick. 

It's terrible what happened - as a father of two young children, my kids are getting extra attention this morning before they head to another uncertain day of school. 

But at the same time, do you not see the irony of Charlie, on record, dismissing school shootings as the necessary price we pay for our second amendment? Given where he was speaking yesterday?

I'm neither mocking nor satisfied, nor do I think he was in any way deserving of what happened to him yesterday, but the lord sure does work in mysterious ways. 

I honestly had never seen that clip of Kirk before or at least I didn't remember seeing it. I have to wonder if we could ask Kirk now if he still agrees with that statement. 

pdalowsky

njhaley1 said:

pdalowsky said:

In the immediate aftermath of the senseless death of a young man like Charlie there is seemingly a strong need from both sides to blame the other, or to compare it to another tragedy. 

But it is the mocking and obvious satisfaction exhibited from those who didn't agree with him that makes me sick. 

It's terrible what happened - as a father of two young children, my kids are getting extra attention this morning before they head to another uncertain day of school. 

But at the same time, do you not see the irony of Charlie, on record, dismissing school shootings as the necessary price we pay for our second amendment? Given where he was speaking yesterday?

I'm neither mocking nor satisfied, nor do I think he was in any way deserving of what happened to him yesterday, but the lord sure does work in mysterious ways. 

I saw the full context of what he said with that comment however and believe it wasn't quite as it has been made to appear in its shortened form. 

My interpretation of what he was saying is that Americans have the right to own a gun to defend themselves, and that didn't translate to Americans should have the right to bear arms and run around murdering people. 

I sense that the real issue is that guns are everywhere in the states, and its very difficult to put the genie back in the bottle, the horse has already bolted from the paddock so closing the gate is pointless. The bad guys have guns, and the good guys need to have the right to keep one to make them feel safer. 

I'm not stupid and I know its not as simple as that. Guns are the problem here, guns kill people. They are made to kill people or other living things. Its the whole point of them. Put a gun in the hand of an arsehole and it doesn't take a genius to work out the results and consequences. 

Ive heard it countless times, that whilst guns are prevalent in wider society, citizens wish to retain their constitutional rights, and I believe Charlie was only suggesting that to enshrine that right people will unfortunately end up dead. He is now one of them. I didn't read into that however that he was championing guns whatsoever, more that he was being realistic as to where America is these days, and that the constitution should be upheld. 

If guns could be removed from the wider public fully then we all know America would be a better place. But its just fantastical to even believe that's a possibility. That is also very sad. 

If the shooting of little kiddies in their school's hasn't changed that, nothing ever will. 

But yes I totally see the irony. I do not however have any belief in a lord

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

pdalowsky said:

Everywhere I look there is an undercurrent of people revelling in his death - in every thread on social media there are laughing emoji, comments about him getting what he had coming, snide remarks and it goes on and on. 

In the immediate aftermath of the death of a young man, guilty of nothing but debating things openly to all who wanted to engage, a father and husband and these reactions are out there in plain view and numerous, well that speaks volumes of the kind of world we all live in. 

Pathetic. 

Social media is not where you want to look in times like these. The worst of the worst. 

I wanna know where all this outrage was for Melissa Hartman. 

exactly....all of it is toxic right now

I'm seeing people say that it was trump taking him out for demanding more Epstein docs, etc. Situations like this just bring out more insanity.

HughFreakingDillon

Yeah, when I see comments like “was just interested in debate for all who wanted to engage” I do a double take. Every clip I’ve seen is him twisting people’s words around to mock and belittle them for sound bites so he can make more money off his hatred and bullying. 

gimmesometruth27

HughFreakingDillon said:

seanwon said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and now we wait (oh, about 4 minutes or so) for the right to politicize it when they've always maintained "now is not the time to politicize gun violence". 

Might as well, you clowns already have......

that pos can't help himself. there is no suspect, and there is no motive, yet the most powerful man in the world is spreading conjecture as fact. fuck him and his impulsivity.

leaders are supposed to lead and try to heal and unite in a time like this. people like trump throw gasoline on the fire and then wonder why actions escalate.

Halifax2TheMax

Maybe we should make guns easier to possess? Maybe college campus gun shops?

One-third of college students say using violence to stop someone from speaking on campus is acceptable, at least in rare cases, according to a survey by the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE).

“Every year, we survey 70,000 college students. And we ask them their acceptance for using violence to stop a campus speech,” FIRE Executive Vice President Nico Perrino told CNN’s Audie Cornish.

“This year, we found that 34% of college students support – to some degree – using violence to shut down a campus speech,” Perrino said.

“That’s up from 24% in 2021. That’s showing a cancer in our body politic, in our public debate. Again, free speech is what we do instead of violence.”

static111

gimmesometruth27 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

seanwon said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and now we wait (oh, about 4 minutes or so) for the right to politicize it when they've always maintained "now is not the time to politicize gun violence". 

Might as well, you clowns already have......

that pos can't help himself. there is no suspect, and there is no motive, yet the most powerful man in the world is spreading conjecture as fact. fuck him and his impulsivity.

leaders are supposed to lead and try to heal and unite in a time like this. people like trump throw gasoline on the fire and then wonder why actions escalate.

Just wait till he signs the charlie kirk act or some other nonsense executive order or bs legislation that will come from this.

static111

The sad thing is that kids were shot and killed in a school yesterday and nobody seems to care about anything besides this blowhard.

OnWis97

Nobody should be murdered and I don’t celebrate it.  But I won’t sanitize who he was either. He liked violence against democrats (https://m.imdb.com/news/ni63814717/). He called the 1964 Civil Rights Act a huge mistake (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859). Jewish money, because he was such a free thinker (https://trt.global/world/article/c915eadce012). And obviously he wasn’t a fan of LGBTQ (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/charlie-kirk-political-views-guns-lgbt-trump-b2824580.html).

nobody should be murdered, but I do not speak well of the dead just because they are dead.

Spiritual_Chaos

pdalowsky said:

Everywhere I look there is an undercurrent of people revelling in his death - in every thread on social media there are laughing emoji, comments about him getting what he had coming, snide remarks and it goes on and on. 

In the immediate aftermath of the death of a young man, guilty of nothing but debating things openly to all who wanted to engage, a father and husband and these reactions are out there in plain view and numerous, well that speaks volumes of the kind of world we all live in. 

Pathetic. 

He was pathetic

list of his views:

Charlie Kirk’s Top 11 Most Heinous Statements & Remarks (documented & reported):

 1. Said gun deaths are “unfortunately worth it” to preserve the Second Amendment.

 2. Called transgender identity a mental disease, needing “brain treatment.”

 3. Refused to use people’s correct pronouns: “I will not call a man a woman.”

 4. Demanded a nationwide ban on gender-affirming care.

 5. Quoted scripture about homosexuality as an “abomination” deserving death.

 6. Called Martin Luther King Jr. a “myth” and said the Civil Rights Act was a “huge mistake.”

 7. Promoted the “Great Replacement” conspiracy theory.

 8. Spread COVID-19 misinformation likening masks and vaccine mandates to “medical apartheid.”

 9. Suggested mass incarceration as a fix for the housing crisis.

 10. Advocated for public, televised executions even for children to watch.

 11. Dismissed Black competence and made demeaning statements about Black women:

He claimed that Michelle Obama and other supporters of affirmative action “lacked the brain processing power” to understand arguments on those policies . He also made undermining comments toward Black pilots, saying, “If I see a Black pilot, I’m gonna be like, ’Boy, I hope he’s qualified.’” .

gimmesometruth27

Halifax2TheMax said:

What I’ve found interesting in the coverage of this horrific event is that none of the interviews with people who have spoken to Kirk’s history and impact of the conservative movement have mentioned his deliberate spreading of misinformation and disinformation, Covid/vaccines, his inflammatory rhetoric, critical race theory/white replacement theory or steadfast, no quarter on the 2A, even in light of Sandy Hook. Let’s not pretend he was an honest broker of the “free exchange of ideas” or that he had an interest in finding common ground. And he certainly wasn’t “loved and respected by all” as CCOOTWH tweeted.

Still didn’t deserve what happened to him and violence is never the solution to a difference of opinions.

well, when you make someone a martyr, you don't talk about the negative things they did or stood for, so..

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

Yeah, when I see comments like “was just interested in debate for all who wanted to engage” I do a double take. Every clip I’ve seen is him twisting people’s words around to mock and belittle them for sound bites so he can make more money off his hatred and bullying. 

Yeah and he was good at it. Very trumplike in that he would say completely false things so confidently that his people believed him even when confronted with evidence.

HughFreakingDillon

gimmesometruth27 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

seanwon said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and now we wait (oh, about 4 minutes or so) for the right to politicize it when they've always maintained "now is not the time to politicize gun violence". 

Might as well, you clowns already have......

that pos can't help himself. there is no suspect, and there is no motive, yet the most powerful man in the world is spreading conjecture as fact. fuck him and his impulsivity.

leaders are supposed to lead and try to heal and unite in a time like this. people like trump throw gasoline on the fire and then wonder why actions escalate.

The more I think about it, the more a “right wing hit job to incite violence against the left/crackdown on freedoms” makes sense. It’s just so easy to get trump to do what he will predictably do. 

Of course it could have been some random nutjob. Who knows. 

The really frightening thing is political violence is about to become normal in the US again. 

gimmesometruth27

why are we not talking about how the shooter seems to have gotten away?

they said they have him on closed circuit camera. where are the images?

how do people know who they are even supposed to be looking for?

seems very suspect to me. 

i am not a conspiracy person, but why has none of that been released? 

HughFreakingDillon

Halifax2TheMax said:

Maybe we should make guns easier to possess? Maybe college campus gun shops?

One-third of college students say using violence to stop someone from speaking on campus is acceptable, at least in rare cases, according to a survey by the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE).

“Every year, we survey 70,000 college students. And we ask them their acceptance for using violence to stop a campus speech,” FIRE Executive Vice President Nico Perrino told CNN’s Audie Cornish.

“This year, we found that 34% of college students support – to some degree – using violence to shut down a campus speech,” Perrino said.

“That’s up from 24% in 2021. That’s showing a cancer in our body politic, in our public debate. Again, free speech is what we do instead of violence.”

This ain’t “good trouble”. That’s disturbing.