We should try to limit deaths from both, but I would like to understand how gun owners are ridiculed for owning guns and are called stupid, but it is perfectly fine to go the store and buy beer that kills more than 2x the amount of people that guns do a year. The figures do not even account for all of the domestic abuse related to alcohol that don't result in death.
So my question is, for those that are for banning guns, why aren't you for banning alcohol? Like I said in another post, a gun owner can at least say they are trying to protect their families and want to keep the guns. An alcohol drinker's only excuse for not banning alcohol is because they want to get a buzz (sounds pretty selfish).
It's a never ending joke. "Why do bars have parking lots?" "Why do criminals and movie heroes get the Kewl Guns?" Don't think too hard... It can keep u awake.
Went to a friends house last week, and they were watching "Cops". I told them I had already seen the episode.
Some one was beaten, busted, shot or stabbed and alcohol was likely involved... while they were driving
yep,,need a weapon to do the crime...seems more easy to control that,than people
maybe, let's ask the DEA how that line of thought it going? banning the products has worked swimmingly
youre comparing drugs with firearms???
I am comparing the outlawing of a product as the simpler solution. Drugs are outlawed and it has done nothing to stop the free flow of them throughout the country. If you don't treat the real problem, taking away the products used won't do dick.
While it may appear easier to control the products rather than tackle the people problem, the drug war, and the thousands who overdose every year (more than are killed by assault weapons by a very long mile), seem to prove otherwise.
Let's focus on who can get guns, rather than the guns. Might be harder but will ultimately be more successful.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
maybe, let's ask the DEA how that line of thought it going? banning the products has worked swimmingly
youre comparing drugs with firearms???
I am comparing the outlawing of a product as the simpler solution. Drugs are outlawed and it has done nothing to stop the free flow of them throughout the country. If you don't treat the real problem, taking away the products used won't do dick.
While it may appear easier to control the products rather than tackle the people problem, the drug war, and the thousands who overdose every year (more than are killed by assault weapons by a very long mile), seem to prove otherwise.
Let's focus on who can get guns, rather than the guns. Might be harder but will ultimately be more successful.
I dont usually like the comparison of the drug war to gun restrictions because people's wants/needs/desires for these things are completely different. Drugs can be addictive and those folks are desperate. Also, the ability to market a $2 crack rock to a stuttering, shaking junky behind a dumpster is a bit easier than selling an illegal 9mm. But I do see some similarities in how each is brought into the country.
I dont usually like the comparison of the drug war to gun restrictions because people's wants/needs/desires for these things are completely different. Drugs can be addictive and those folks are desperate. Also, the ability to market a $2 crack rock to a stuttering, shaking junky behind a dumpster is a bit easier than selling an illegal 9mm. But I do see some similarities in how each is brought into the country.
It certainly isn't a perfect comparison, but my main point wasn't that drugs and guns are the same, but that banning an object doesn't always give us the affect we want...I have the firm belief that drugs are more unsafe now than they would be if they were legal...because if they were legal resources could be put toward proper use and treatment rather than resources put to incarcerating and stigmatizing drug users.
For me it is the same with guns...we don't demonize the shooters nearly as much as we demonize the tools they used...and while it may not be a conscious decision to do it still gets us away from blaming the human side of it and thus trying to understand and possible control what makes people do these things rather than again taking away from the vast majority because of the small minority...
As I discuss all of this on here and with friends I have certainly become much more open to the idea of better regulation on who can own guns and the liability of those gun owners when a crime is committed with their weapon regardless if they were involved or not. But I have VERY little faith in the idea that banning weapons will do anything but save asses in government when the next one comes up and we realize that gun bans aren't the answer to why this will continue to happen.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I dont usually like the comparison of the drug war to gun restrictions because people's wants/needs/desires for these things are completely different. Drugs can be addictive and those folks are desperate. Also, the ability to market a $2 crack rock to a stuttering, shaking junky behind a dumpster is a bit easier than selling an illegal 9mm. But I do see some similarities in how each is brought into the country.
It certainly isn't a perfect comparison, but my main point wasn't that drugs and guns are the same, but that banning an object doesn't always give us the affect we want...I have the firm belief that drugs are more unsafe now than they would be if they were legal...because if they were legal resources could be put toward proper use and treatment rather than resources put to incarcerating and stigmatizing drug users.
For me it is the same with guns...we don't demonize the shooters nearly as much as we demonize the tools they used...and while it may not be a conscious decision to do it still gets us away from blaming the human side of it and thus trying to understand and possible control what makes people do these things rather than again taking away from the vast majority because of the small minority...
As I discuss all of this on here and with friends I have certainly become much more open to the idea of better regulation on who can own guns and the liability of those gun owners when a crime is committed with their weapon regardless if they were involved or not. But I have VERY little faith in the idea that banning weapons will do anything but save asses in government when the next one comes up and we realize that gun bans aren't the answer to why this will continue to happen.
I understand what you're saying...and since I disagree with a full gun ban, I just thought we were talking about the fact that both drugs and guns are very prevalent in our society, and the war on drugs is an ugly one and that's a gauge for how poorly a war on guns would be. But I guess we're not asking for a war on guns, just better regulations. Shit, I mostly agree with you on legalizing drugs..
They also included it because of what the British Government was doing to their own people. Witch hunts, etc..They came from that, it's why many boarded the ships to the new world, to get away from the worst of it..It's not the only thing they included in the Constitution, because of how the British Government treated their own people, either..
And they couldn't imagine it, really? Um..DaVinci dreamed up the helocopter and robot surgery and machine type weapons with heavy caliber..yes, I think the old men back in the day had enough intelligence to dream up such a weapon. DaVinci did..why not other brilliant forward-thinking inventors of the time?
seriously really?? witches??? thats your defence??? oh my. :roll:
Really? You really don't know that the vast majority of witch hunts had nothing to do with believing they were actually hunting a 'witch.' It was the Government hunting down anyone who dissented.
you think the answer is simple? and you are applauding a post that completely ignored the point? it just boggles my mind that you folks can't agree it's a multi-faceted issue. I didn't concentrate my argument on the mentally ill. this thread isn't just about the mass shootings. It's about all deaths from guns.
the american problem is not just about poverty. calling it a singular issue is naive and just closes your eyes because of your selfish wants and paranoia. there's poverty and gun ownership all over the world. but you just don't see the kind of gun violence you see in the US.
FACT.
You cannot dispute that.
NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT NUMBER OF GUNS.
NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO PROTECT YOURSELF.
can you people stop focusing on that since no one here is arguing with you on that? just the caliber of guns and the culture of gun violence.
Um..I never said it was a singular issue. I'm saying it's hypocritical and ridiculous to go after the group responsible for so little, while saying nothing about the group responsible for most..If these people really were hurt by the death of innocents, if they really cared about preventing more loss of innocent life, they would be addressing the bigger picture...not just a fluke.
And I can easily dispute your statement. For one, you didn't post anything to back your claim that we have the worst rates. And 2, there are quite a few other countries with worse rates than us for any number of reasons. Our neighbors to the south, for example.
Comments
I am comparing the outlawing of a product as the simpler solution. Drugs are outlawed and it has done nothing to stop the free flow of them throughout the country. If you don't treat the real problem, taking away the products used won't do dick.
While it may appear easier to control the products rather than tackle the people problem, the drug war, and the thousands who overdose every year (more than are killed by assault weapons by a very long mile), seem to prove otherwise.
Let's focus on who can get guns, rather than the guns. Might be harder but will ultimately be more successful.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I dont usually like the comparison of the drug war to gun restrictions because people's wants/needs/desires for these things are completely different. Drugs can be addictive and those folks are desperate. Also, the ability to market a $2 crack rock to a stuttering, shaking junky behind a dumpster is a bit easier than selling an illegal 9mm. But I do see some similarities in how each is brought into the country.
It certainly isn't a perfect comparison, but my main point wasn't that drugs and guns are the same, but that banning an object doesn't always give us the affect we want...I have the firm belief that drugs are more unsafe now than they would be if they were legal...because if they were legal resources could be put toward proper use and treatment rather than resources put to incarcerating and stigmatizing drug users.
For me it is the same with guns...we don't demonize the shooters nearly as much as we demonize the tools they used...and while it may not be a conscious decision to do it still gets us away from blaming the human side of it and thus trying to understand and possible control what makes people do these things rather than again taking away from the vast majority because of the small minority...
As I discuss all of this on here and with friends I have certainly become much more open to the idea of better regulation on who can own guns and the liability of those gun owners when a crime is committed with their weapon regardless if they were involved or not. But I have VERY little faith in the idea that banning weapons will do anything but save asses in government when the next one comes up and we realize that gun bans aren't the answer to why this will continue to happen.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I understand what you're saying...and since I disagree with a full gun ban, I just thought we were talking about the fact that both drugs and guns are very prevalent in our society, and the war on drugs is an ugly one and that's a gauge for how poorly a war on guns would be. But I guess we're not asking for a war on guns, just better regulations. Shit, I mostly agree with you on legalizing drugs..
Really? You really don't know that the vast majority of witch hunts had nothing to do with believing they were actually hunting a 'witch.' It was the Government hunting down anyone who dissented.
Um..I never said it was a singular issue. I'm saying it's hypocritical and ridiculous to go after the group responsible for so little, while saying nothing about the group responsible for most..If these people really were hurt by the death of innocents, if they really cared about preventing more loss of innocent life, they would be addressing the bigger picture...not just a fluke.
And I can easily dispute your statement. For one, you didn't post anything to back your claim that we have the worst rates. And 2, there are quite a few other countries with worse rates than us for any number of reasons. Our neighbors to the south, for example.