Alcohol deaths vs. gun deaths

bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,950
edited January 2013 in A Moving Train
Alcohol related deaths - 80,000 per year
Gun Deaths in 2011 - 31,940

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_deaths_are_in_the_US_every_year

We should try to limit deaths from both, but I would like to understand how gun owners are ridiculed for owning guns and are called stupid, but it is perfectly fine to go the store and buy beer that kills more than 2x the amount of people that guns do a year. The figures do not even account for all of the domestic abuse related to alcohol that don't result in death.

So my question is, for those that are for banning guns, why aren't you for banning alcohol? Like I said in another post, a gun owner can at least say they are trying to protect their families and want to keep the guns. An alcohol drinker's only excuse for not banning alcohol is because they want to get a buzz (sounds pretty selfish).

I'm for stricter gun control, but the amount of hate spewed at gun owners right now seems hypocritical related to alcohol.
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Alcohol related deaths - 80,000 per year
    Gun Deaths in 2011 - 31,940

    http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_deaths_are_in_the_US_every_year

    We should try to limit deaths from both, but I would like to understand how gun owners are ridiculed for owning guns and are called stupid, but it is perfectly fine to go the store and buy beer that kills more than 2x the amount of people that guns do a year. The figures do not even account for all of the domestic abuse related to alcohol that don't result in death.

    So my question is, for those that are for banning guns, why aren't you for banning alcohol? Like I said in another post, a gun owner can at least say they are trying to protect their families and want to keep the guns. An alcohol drinker's only excuse for not banning alcohol is because they want to get a buzz (sounds pretty selfish).

    I'm for stricter gun control, but the amount of hate spewed at gun owners right now seems hypocritical related to alcohol.
    you can't compare the two.

    guns were designed to kill.

    alcohol is a natural occuring substance resulting from fermentation used as an intoxicant.

    if alcohol was illegal people would make their own.

    people are not capable of mass producing and selling their own guns.

    apples to watermelons...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • we can make 1 millions thread like this..
    guns vs heart attacks.
    guns vs attack by aliens
    guns vs fires
    guns vs cars
    guns vs sharks
    guns vs drugs
    guns vs angry housewifes
    etc..

    people die every day..

    but guns ..made for kill..and only kill...no good to this shit
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,950
    you can't compare the two.

    guns were designed to kill.

    alcohol is a natural occuring substance resulting from fermentation used as an intoxicant.

    if alcohol was illegal people would make their own.

    people are not capable of mass producing and selling their own guns.

    apples to watermelons...

    I figured this point would be brought up. And it makes sense to some extent.

    But, you make a gun by taking materials from the earth and molding them to into a gun. To make beer you go through a process of taking materials from the earth and eventually making a drinkable fluid.

    Both guns and beers take action from a person to make. Beer, like guns, does not make itself. Alcohol kills more than double what guns kill each year plus all of the domestic abuse. Yet, we scream to stop making guns. Why shouldn't we stop making alcohol? We can make cyanide from the earth, but that doesn't mean it should be legal.

    Is the ability to get a buzz more important than saving 80,000 lives a year in the US alone? That is ultimately my question. I don't think the alcohol drinkers are going to give it up, so I don't think they can legitimately spew rage at gun owners without acknowledging their hypocrisy.

    Cars kill people too, but cars serve a purpose in getting us from point A to point B. Alcohol serves no necessary purpose.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,950
    we can make 1 millions thread like this..
    guns vs heart attacks.
    guns vs attack by aliens
    guns vs fires
    guns vs cars
    guns vs sharks
    guns vs drugs
    guns vs angry housewifes
    etc..

    people die every day..

    but guns ..made for kill..and only kill...no good to this shit

    No, I think the alcohol debate is similar to gun debates. We can get rid of guns. Why can't we get rid of alcohol? Why aren't we having a debate on alcohol when it is more deadly and destructive?

    Guns do provide protection. Guns did provide a purpose in their day for hunting and for protection of government. We cannot say that guns are 100% bad. Guns stopped bad people now.

    Guns can at least save lives by protecting against bad people. Alcoholic beverages cannot save lives.
  • we can make 1 millions thread like this..
    guns vs heart attacks.
    guns vs attack by aliens
    guns vs fires
    guns vs cars
    guns vs sharks
    guns vs drugs
    guns vs angry housewifes
    etc..

    people die every day..

    but guns ..made for kill..and only kill...no good to this shit

    No, I think the alcohol debate is similar to gun debates. We can get rid of guns. Why can't we get rid of alcohol? Why aren't we having a debate on alcohol when it is more deadly and destructive?

    Guns do provide protection. Guns did provide a purpose in their day for hunting and for protection of government. We cannot say that guns are 100% bad. Guns stopped bad people now.

    Guns can at least save lives by protecting against bad people. Alcoholic beverages cannot save lives.
    same as drugs...
    but drugs and alchohol wasn't create for kill..
    guns used to kill..protect you by killing the bad guy first..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    Agree with OP that this is better than the much-maligned car analogy. Alcohol serves (almost) no creative purpose (other than to get uglies laid, I suppose); its results are almost entirely destructive.

    That said, we've tried outlawing alcohol previously (18th amendment) and where did that get us? Organized crime, among other things. Makes me wonder where outlawing guns would take us.

    Also:
    guns vs sharks
    Dunno why but that one struck me as particularly amusing. Well played, Greek dude! Yamas!
  • no one has ever been killed by having beer spit in their face.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    edited December 2012
    both need to be looked at. unfortunately, you can't look at one to justify the other. should we argue the merits of guns vs chocolate next? no, we discuss each on its own merit. this is nothing but deflecting away from the real issue.

    each issue deserves its own topic.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • MotoDC wrote:

    Also:
    guns vs sharks
    Dunno why but that one struck me as particularly amusing. Well played, Greek dude! Yamas!
    yamas and opa!!have a great day on the other side of the world!! :D
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,087
    The first sentence of the first link reads: "There are approximately 80,000 deaths attributable to excessive alcohol use each year in the United States." This would indicate a form of suicide. So are you saying more people kill themselves with alcohol than they do with self inflicted gunshot wounds? What about leaping from tall buildings and bridges? I think we need to outlaw tall buildings and bridges.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    no one has ever been killed by having beer spit in their face.


    No but they have been killed when a drinker gets outrageously angry.
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    brianlux wrote:
    I think we need to outlaw tall buildings and bridges.



    And there it goes. People who want to kill themselves will. People who want to kill others will.
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    we can make 1 millions thread like this..
    guns vs heart attacks.
    guns vs attack by aliens
    guns vs fires
    guns vs cars
    guns vs sharks
    guns vs drugs
    guns vs angry housewifes
    etc..

    people die every day..

    but guns ..made for kill..and only kill...no good to this shit
    I dunno, Dimi. I think we may need that "guns vs. attacks by aliens" thread. :think:
    :P :lol:
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • we can make 1 millions thread like this..
    guns vs heart attacks.
    guns vs attack by aliens
    guns vs fires
    guns vs cars
    guns vs sharks
    guns vs drugs
    guns vs angry housewifes
    etc..

    people die every day..

    but guns ..made for kill..and only kill...no good to this shit
    I dunno, Dimi. I think we may need that "guns vs. attacks by aliens" thread. :think:
    :P :lol:
    I was thinking guns vs angry housewifes or guns vs fart fish :lol:
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    i think i am going to cobble a gun together using regular household materials...

    oh wait....


    only macguyver can do that... :fp:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • no one has ever been killed by having beer spit in their face.

    Noone has ever been killed by thinking of a gun either!
    Theres no time like the present

    A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!

    All people need to do more on every level!
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    no one has ever been killed by having beer spit in their face.

    Noone has ever been killed by thinking of a gun either!


    not really understanding where youre going with this but thought and actions are two different things. thinking of shooting someone is different from actually shooting someone. one is illegal and quite often fatal whilst the other one is....
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • no one has ever been killed by having beer spit in their face.

    Noone has ever been killed by thinking of a gun either!


    not really understanding where youre going with this but thought and actions are two different things. thinking of shooting someone is different from actually shooting someone. one is illegal and quite often fatal whilst the other one is....
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,950
    So it is settled. The "buzz" is more important than human life and the well being of women and children in abusive homes. Get your drink on folks, it is New Year's Eve in two days!!!!!! Many will die by the hand of drunk drivers in two nights, but gotta get that buzz!
  • Alcoholism is certainly a serious issue in America, as it is in other parts of the world. Of course this topic would have more meaning if it weren't for the fact that it is simply meant to be a distraction from another serious issue unique to the United States; one that many Americans refuse to acknowledge. The fact that alcoholism is a serious problem for society doesn't suddenly make your (America's) gun problem any less serious.

    The wanton abuse of alcohol kills thousands of people each year. Then again, so do firearms. Americans may have the constitutional right to carry firearms yet it seems that many Americans lack the respect to wield them responsibly. You will never quell your gun violence because a good portion of your population still refuse to see it as an issue.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,950
    The wanton abuse of alcohol kills thousands of people each year. Then again, so do firearms. Americans may have the constitutional right to carry firearms yet it seems that many Americans lack the respect to wield them responsibly. You will never quell your gun violence because a good portion of your population still refuse to see it as an issue.

    Many Americans lack the respect to drink responsibly. You will never quell alcohol deaths and violence because a good portion of the population still refuse to see it as an issue.

    This thread was not meant to quiet the gun debate, or to limit gun control. This thread was a reaction to the amount of hate thrown at legit, responsible gun owners. I just wanted to show that people are so selfish that they will not even consider giving up their right to get a buzz to save lives. They want to take guns away from people who want them for protection, but they will not even consider giving up "a buzz" to save a life.

    This thread was meant to show the hypocrisy. Keep the gun debate going, but I don't want to hear about this self-righteous crap that you all actually give a damn about others. If people did, they would support banning alcohol too. The debates is about guns, and guns only. Not saving people.

  • Many Americans lack the respect to drink responsibly. You will never quell alcohol deaths and violence because a good portion of the population still refuse to see it as an issue.

    This thread was not meant to quiet the gun debate, or to limit gun control. This thread was a reaction to the amount of hate thrown at legit, responsible gun owners. I just wanted to show that people are so selfish that they will not even consider giving up their right to get a buzz to save lives. They want to take guns away from people who want them for protection, but they will not even consider giving up "a buzz" to save a life.

    This thread was meant to show the hypocrisy. Keep the gun debate going, but I don't want to hear about this self-righteous crap that you all actually give a damn about others. If people did, they would support banning alcohol too. The debates is about guns, and guns only. Not saving people.

    Do you seriously think that there aren't just as many people who are disgusted by lax drinking laws? Groups like MADD didn't pop up out of nowhere. All I see in this thread is a gun owner who is trying to redirect attention away from one serious issue onto another. I'm all for discussing the dangers of alcoholism (and there are many), but this thread seems like a weak attempt to downplay another serious issue rather than a legitimate discussion of alcoholism.

    Here's the thing; I don't drink heavily, I have never driven while intoxicated and I have never owned a gun. So don't give start spouting off about how I'm a hypocrite because I feel that gun laws are too lax. Your country is unique in its love of firearms. It seems that many Americans have little or no respect for firearms and refuse to acknowledge how dangerous these weapons are. In spite of your country's very clear problem with gun violence, there are always people kicking and screaming when somebody so much as suggests that there should be a restriction on semi-automatic weapons or a reduction in clip sizes.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,950
    Do you seriously think that there aren't just as many people who are disgusted by lax drinking laws? Groups like MADD didn't pop up out of nowhere. All I see in this thread is a gun owner who is trying to redirect attention away from one serious issue onto another. I'm all for discussing the dangers of alcoholism (and there are many), but this thread seems like a weak attempt to downplay another serious issue rather than a legitimate discussion of alcoholism.

    Here's the thing; I don't drink heavily, I have never driven while intoxicated and I have never owned a gun. So don't give start spouting off about how I'm a hypocrite because I feel that gun laws are too lax. Your country is unique in its love of firearms. It seems that many Americans have little or no respect for firearms and refuse to acknowledge how dangerous these weapons are. In spite of your country's very clear problem with gun violence, there are always people kicking and screaming when somebody so much as suggests that there should be a restriction on semi-automatic weapons or a reduction in clip sizes.

    I don't have a gun. I am in my 30's and have never shot a gun. I don't want a gun. My brother just bought a second gun, which I think is stupid (I didn't tell him that though). I'd be fine taking guns off the streets if it didn't enable criminals to take more control.

    Here is the question. Why not get rid of alcohol if it does more damage than guns? Oh, it is an inconvenience. Right, people want to save lives so long as it doesn't inconvenience them. That is all this thread is about for me. You (not you personally) can save more lives than guns kill by shutting down the breweries, but that is inconvenient.

    That's all. If someone could explain to me why the right to drink alcohol is more important than the lives it destroys, please post it.


    America also has a fascination with charity too.
  • I don't have a gun. I am in my 30's and have never shot a gun. I don't want a gun. My brother just bought a second gun, which I think is stupid (I didn't tell him that though). I'd be fine taking guns off the streets if it didn't enable criminals to take more control.

    Here is the question. Why not get rid of alcohol if it does more damage than guns? Oh, it is an inconvenience. Right, people want to save lives so long as it doesn't inconvenience them. That is all this thread is about for me. You (not you personally) can save more lives than guns kill by shutting down the breweries, but that is inconvenient.

    That's all. If someone could explain to me why the right to drink alcohol is more important than the lives it destroys, please post it.


    America also has a fascination with charity too.

    I don't agree with getting rid of alcohol, nor do I agree with getting rid of guns. Honestly, an absolute ban on anything doesn't work as I'm sure you are well aware (there's no need to discuss the 18th amendment here).

    That being said, I'm all for any laws or regulations that may help to quell needless fatalities, whether they are due to alcohol or firearms. I don't see too many people suggesting an absolute ban on guns, particularly handguns or rifles. What I am hearing is that some people would like to see stricter regulations on high powered or semi automatic weaponry, longer waiting periods and more scrutiny when doing background checks. Is that really so wrong?

    If we were to have the same discussion on alcohol, I'm not opposed to stricter penalties for drinking and driving, selling alcohol to minors and to establishments that allow their patrons to drive home drunk.

  • I don't have a gun. I am in my 30's and have never shot a gun. I don't want a gun. My brother just bought a second gun, which I think is stupid (I didn't tell him that though). I'd be fine taking guns off the streets if it didn't enable criminals to take more control.

    Here is the question. Why not get rid of alcohol if it does more damage than guns? Oh, it is an inconvenience. Right, people want to save lives so long as it doesn't inconvenience them. That is all this thread is about for me. You (not you personally) can save more lives than guns kill by shutting down the breweries, but that is inconvenient.

    That's all. If someone could explain to me why the right to drink alcohol is more important than the lives it destroys, please post it.


    America also has a fascination with charity too.

    alcohol has regulations. guns have little regulations. you ban anything outright you encourage and promote organized crime. fact.

    comparing alcohol to guns or cars to guns is stupid.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,950
    comparing alcohol to guns or cars to guns is stupid.

    Well lets take guns out of it. Here is my gun free statement:

    Alcohol kills and destroys hundreds of thousands of lives in the US each year. Alcohol serves no purpose other than to give people a buzz or a good tasting beverage. Is it a true statement then that people care more about their right to drink then the damage the drinks cause? I think that is a true statement based on this thread and society in general.

    So enough with the false caring for the abused women and children or drunk driving victimes because we could save a lot of them but don't in order to protect our buzz.

    I am not saying we should ban alcohol, just focusing on the HUGE double standard and the self-righteousness of people who profess to be so loving but at the end of the day choose convenience over life. "I don't have a gun so lets get rid of them or control them so many can't abuse them and destroy lives because I care so much about human life, but damnit I want to drink my Budweiser even though so many abuse it and destroy lives."
  • comparing alcohol to guns or cars to guns is stupid.

    Well lets take guns out of it. Here is my gun free statement:

    Alcohol kills and destroys hundreds of thousands of lives in the US each year. Alcohol serves no purpose other than to give people a buzz or a good tasting beverage. Is it a true statement then that people care more about their right to drink then the damage the drinks cause? I think that is a true statement based on this thread and society in general.

    So enough with the false caring for the abused women and children or drunk driving victimes because we could save a lot of them but don't in order to protect our buzz.

    I am not saying we should ban alcohol, just focusing on the HUGE double standard and the self-righteousness of people who profess to be so loving but at the end of the day choose convenience over life. "I don't have a gun so lets get rid of them or control them so many can't abuse them and destroy lives because I care so much about human life, but damnit I want to drink my Budweiser even though so many abuse it and destroy lives."

    it's not a double standard. if you posed the same question as another member posed to the gun lovers and got no answer, I'll answer it quite frankly:

    q: would you give up alcohol if you knew it would stop the destruction of families and save lives?
    a: absolutely I would.

    But banning alcohol won't do it. you just start a black market for it. it was tried before.

    banning guns won't get rid of the problem either. changing the culture is really the only way to do it in the US. which, in my estimation, is nearly, if not totally, impossible at this stage. but stricter gun regulations might help. just as there are stricter laws on drinking and driving, spousal abuse, child abuse, violence, etc, stricter gun laws are needed.

    when people say "criminals don't follow laws" it makes me beat my head against my desk. so then why don't we make everything legal? would that help the problem? make murder legal so the average citizen is allowed to use lethal force if they are threatened by a "real" criminal?

    of course criminals don't follow laws. but you make something illegal, then they get punished for doing it, and maybe it deters the behaviour in others. kinda like getting tossed in jail for drinking and driving.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014

  • So enough with the false caring for the abused women and children or drunk driving victimes because we could save a lot of them but don't in order to protect our buzz.

    this is one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen on this board in a while.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,950

    So enough with the false caring for the abused women and children or drunk driving victimes because we could save a lot of them but don't in order to protect our buzz.

    this is one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen on this board in a while.

    I'm sure it is. But the fact exists that we could save a lot of lives by getting rid of alcohol with no significant detriment to humanity except for making the "buzz" more elusive. But we don't. So as ridiculous as my statement my have been, there is truth to it. There are limits to how much people will give up to protect others. Alcohol is one of those limits.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,950
    it's not a double standard. if you posed the same question as another member posed to the gun lovers and got no answer, I'll answer it quite frankly:

    q: would you give up alcohol if you knew it would stop the destruction of families and save lives?
    a: absolutely I would.

    But banning alcohol won't do it. you just start a black market for it. it was tried before.

    banning guns won't get rid of the problem either. changing the culture is really the only way to do it in the US. which, in my estimation, is nearly, if not totally, impossible at this stage. but stricter gun regulations might help. just as there are stricter laws on drinking and driving, spousal abuse, child abuse, violence, etc, stricter gun laws are needed.

    when people say "criminals don't follow laws" it makes me beat my head against my desk. so then why don't we make everything legal? would that help the problem? make murder legal so the average citizen is allowed to use lethal force if they are threatened by a "real" criminal?

    of course criminals don't follow laws. but you make something illegal, then they get punished for doing it, and maybe it deters the behaviour in others. kinda like getting tossed in jail for drinking and driving.

    Thank you for answering the question. I guess I doubt that the majority of peope would vote to abolish alcohol.

    I agree stricter gun regulations need to exist. I agree assault rifles are pointless for the general public. I don't think I am all the way to supporting gun bans.

    I guess there is little talk about limiting access to alcohol, a greater killer. I just see it as a double standard. There is a lot of talk about the destruction it causes, but little talk about the cause...alcohol.

    I agree the culture needs to change. I don't think banning alcohol would get rid of it, just like guns as well. But I just don't think people would be willing to give up alcohol if it would save lives.
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