Alcohol deaths vs. gun deaths

bootlegger10

blueandwhite wrote:

The wanton abuse of alcohol kills thousands of people each year. Then again, so do firearms. Americans may have the constitutional right to carry firearms yet it seems that many Americans lack the respect to wield them responsibly. You will never quell your gun violence because a good portion of your population still refuse to see it as an issue.

Many Americans lack the respect to drink responsibly. You will never quell alcohol deaths and violence because a good portion of the population still refuse to see it as an issue.

This thread was not meant to quiet the gun debate, or to limit gun control. This thread was a reaction to the amount of hate thrown at legit, responsible gun owners. I just wanted to show that people are so selfish that they will not even consider giving up their right to get a buzz to save lives. They want to take guns away from people who want them for protection, but they will not even consider giving up "a buzz" to save a life.

This thread was meant to show the hypocrisy. Keep the gun debate going, but I don't want to hear about this self-righteous crap that you all actually give a damn about others. If people did, they would support banning alcohol too. The debates is about guns, and guns only. Not saving people.

blueandwhite

bootlegger10 wrote:

Many Americans lack the respect to drink responsibly. You will never quell alcohol deaths and violence because a good portion of the population still refuse to see it as an issue.

This thread was not meant to quiet the gun debate, or to limit gun control. This thread was a reaction to the amount of hate thrown at legit, responsible gun owners. I just wanted to show that people are so selfish that they will not even consider giving up their right to get a buzz to save lives. They want to take guns away from people who want them for protection, but they will not even consider giving up "a buzz" to save a life.

This thread was meant to show the hypocrisy. Keep the gun debate going, but I don't want to hear about this self-righteous crap that you all actually give a damn about others. If people did, they would support banning alcohol too. The debates is about guns, and guns only. Not saving people.

Do you seriously think that there aren't just as many people who are disgusted by lax drinking laws? Groups like MADD didn't pop up out of nowhere. All I see in this thread is a gun owner who is trying to redirect attention away from one serious issue onto another. I'm all for discussing the dangers of alcoholism (and there are many), but this thread seems like a weak attempt to downplay another serious issue rather than a legitimate discussion of alcoholism.

Here's the thing; I don't drink heavily, I have never driven while intoxicated and I have never owned a gun. So don't give start spouting off about how I'm a hypocrite because I feel that gun laws are too lax. Your country is unique in its love of firearms. It seems that many Americans have little or no respect for firearms and refuse to acknowledge how dangerous these weapons are. In spite of your country's very clear problem with gun violence, there are always people kicking and screaming when somebody so much as suggests that there should be a restriction on semi-automatic weapons or a reduction in clip sizes.

bootlegger10

blueandwhite wrote:

Do you seriously think that there aren't just as many people who are disgusted by lax drinking laws? Groups like MADD didn't pop up out of nowhere. All I see in this thread is a gun owner who is trying to redirect attention away from one serious issue onto another. I'm all for discussing the dangers of alcoholism (and there are many), but this thread seems like a weak attempt to downplay another serious issue rather than a legitimate discussion of alcoholism.

Here's the thing; I don't drink heavily, I have never driven while intoxicated and I have never owned a gun. So don't give start spouting off about how I'm a hypocrite because I feel that gun laws are too lax. Your country is unique in its love of firearms. It seems that many Americans have little or no respect for firearms and refuse to acknowledge how dangerous these weapons are. In spite of your country's very clear problem with gun violence, there are always people kicking and screaming when somebody so much as suggests that there should be a restriction on semi-automatic weapons or a reduction in clip sizes.

I don't have a gun. I am in my 30's and have never shot a gun. I don't want a gun. My brother just bought a second gun, which I think is stupid (I didn't tell him that though). I'd be fine taking guns off the streets if it didn't enable criminals to take more control.

Here is the question. Why not get rid of alcohol if it does more damage than guns? Oh, it is an inconvenience. Right, people want to save lives so long as it doesn't inconvenience them. That is all this thread is about for me. You (not you personally) can save more lives than guns kill by shutting down the breweries, but that is inconvenient.

That's all. If someone could explain to me why the right to drink alcohol is more important than the lives it destroys, please post it.


America also has a fascination with charity too.

blueandwhite

bootlegger10 wrote:

I don't have a gun. I am in my 30's and have never shot a gun. I don't want a gun. My brother just bought a second gun, which I think is stupid (I didn't tell him that though). I'd be fine taking guns off the streets if it didn't enable criminals to take more control.

Here is the question. Why not get rid of alcohol if it does more damage than guns? Oh, it is an inconvenience. Right, people want to save lives so long as it doesn't inconvenience them. That is all this thread is about for me. You (not you personally) can save more lives than guns kill by shutting down the breweries, but that is inconvenient.

That's all. If someone could explain to me why the right to drink alcohol is more important than the lives it destroys, please post it.


America also has a fascination with charity too.

I don't agree with getting rid of alcohol, nor do I agree with getting rid of guns. Honestly, an absolute ban on anything doesn't work as I'm sure you are well aware (there's no need to discuss the 18th amendment here).

That being said, I'm all for any laws or regulations that may help to quell needless fatalities, whether they are due to alcohol or firearms. I don't see too many people suggesting an absolute ban on guns, particularly handguns or rifles. What I am hearing is that some people would like to see stricter regulations on high powered or semi automatic weaponry, longer waiting periods and more scrutiny when doing background checks. Is that really so wrong?

If we were to have the same discussion on alcohol, I'm not opposed to stricter penalties for drinking and driving, selling alcohol to minors and to establishments that allow their patrons to drive home drunk.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

bootlegger10 wrote:

I don't have a gun. I am in my 30's and have never shot a gun. I don't want a gun. My brother just bought a second gun, which I think is stupid (I didn't tell him that though). I'd be fine taking guns off the streets if it didn't enable criminals to take more control.

Here is the question. Why not get rid of alcohol if it does more damage than guns? Oh, it is an inconvenience. Right, people want to save lives so long as it doesn't inconvenience them. That is all this thread is about for me. You (not you personally) can save more lives than guns kill by shutting down the breweries, but that is inconvenient.

That's all. If someone could explain to me why the right to drink alcohol is more important than the lives it destroys, please post it.


America also has a fascination with charity too.

alcohol has regulations. guns have little regulations. you ban anything outright you encourage and promote organized crime. fact.

comparing alcohol to guns or cars to guns is stupid.

bootlegger10

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

comparing alcohol to guns or cars to guns is stupid.

Well lets take guns out of it. Here is my gun free statement:

Alcohol kills and destroys hundreds of thousands of lives in the US each year. Alcohol serves no purpose other than to give people a buzz or a good tasting beverage. Is it a true statement then that people care more about their right to drink then the damage the drinks cause? I think that is a true statement based on this thread and society in general.

So enough with the false caring for the abused women and children or drunk driving victimes because we could save a lot of them but don't in order to protect our buzz.

I am not saying we should ban alcohol, just focusing on the HUGE double standard and the self-righteousness of people who profess to be so loving but at the end of the day choose convenience over life. "I don't have a gun so lets get rid of them or control them so many can't abuse them and destroy lives because I care so much about human life, but damnit I want to drink my Budweiser even though so many abuse it and destroy lives."

Hugh Freaking Dillon

bootlegger10 wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

comparing alcohol to guns or cars to guns is stupid.

Well lets take guns out of it. Here is my gun free statement:

Alcohol kills and destroys hundreds of thousands of lives in the US each year. Alcohol serves no purpose other than to give people a buzz or a good tasting beverage. Is it a true statement then that people care more about their right to drink then the damage the drinks cause? I think that is a true statement based on this thread and society in general.

So enough with the false caring for the abused women and children or drunk driving victimes because we could save a lot of them but don't in order to protect our buzz.

I am not saying we should ban alcohol, just focusing on the HUGE double standard and the self-righteousness of people who profess to be so loving but at the end of the day choose convenience over life. "I don't have a gun so lets get rid of them or control them so many can't abuse them and destroy lives because I care so much about human life, but damnit I want to drink my Budweiser even though so many abuse it and destroy lives."

it's not a double standard. if you posed the same question as another member posed to the gun lovers and got no answer, I'll answer it quite frankly:

q: would you give up alcohol if you knew it would stop the destruction of families and save lives?
a: absolutely I would.

But banning alcohol won't do it. you just start a black market for it. it was tried before.

banning guns won't get rid of the problem either. changing the culture is really the only way to do it in the US. which, in my estimation, is nearly, if not totally, impossible at this stage. but stricter gun regulations might help. just as there are stricter laws on drinking and driving, spousal abuse, child abuse, violence, etc, stricter gun laws are needed.

when people say "criminals don't follow laws" it makes me beat my head against my desk. so then why don't we make everything legal? would that help the problem? make murder legal so the average citizen is allowed to use lethal force if they are threatened by a "real" criminal?

of course criminals don't follow laws. but you make something illegal, then they get punished for doing it, and maybe it deters the behaviour in others. kinda like getting tossed in jail for drinking and driving.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

bootlegger10 wrote:

So enough with the false caring for the abused women and children or drunk driving victimes because we could save a lot of them but don't in order to protect our buzz.

this is one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen on this board in a while.

bootlegger10

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

bootlegger10 wrote:

So enough with the false caring for the abused women and children or drunk driving victimes because we could save a lot of them but don't in order to protect our buzz.

this is one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen on this board in a while.

I'm sure it is. But the fact exists that we could save a lot of lives by getting rid of alcohol with no significant detriment to humanity except for making the "buzz" more elusive. But we don't. So as ridiculous as my statement my have been, there is truth to it. There are limits to how much people will give up to protect others. Alcohol is one of those limits.

bootlegger10

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

it's not a double standard. if you posed the same question as another member posed to the gun lovers and got no answer, I'll answer it quite frankly:

q: would you give up alcohol if you knew it would stop the destruction of families and save lives?
a: absolutely I would.

But banning alcohol won't do it. you just start a black market for it. it was tried before.

banning guns won't get rid of the problem either. changing the culture is really the only way to do it in the US. which, in my estimation, is nearly, if not totally, impossible at this stage. but stricter gun regulations might help. just as there are stricter laws on drinking and driving, spousal abuse, child abuse, violence, etc, stricter gun laws are needed.

when people say "criminals don't follow laws" it makes me beat my head against my desk. so then why don't we make everything legal? would that help the problem? make murder legal so the average citizen is allowed to use lethal force if they are threatened by a "real" criminal?

of course criminals don't follow laws. but you make something illegal, then they get punished for doing it, and maybe it deters the behaviour in others. kinda like getting tossed in jail for drinking and driving.

Thank you for answering the question. I guess I doubt that the majority of peope would vote to abolish alcohol.

I agree stricter gun regulations need to exist. I agree assault rifles are pointless for the general public. I don't think I am all the way to supporting gun bans.

I guess there is little talk about limiting access to alcohol, a greater killer. I just see it as a double standard. There is a lot of talk about the destruction it causes, but little talk about the cause...alcohol.

I agree the culture needs to change. I don't think banning alcohol would get rid of it, just like guns as well. But I just don't think people would be willing to give up alcohol if it would save lives.

DS1119

bootlegger10 wrote:

Many Americans lack the respect to drink responsibly. You will never quell alcohol deaths and violence because a good portion of the population still refuse to see it as an issue.

This thread was not meant to quiet the gun debate, or to limit gun control. This thread was a reaction to the amount of hate thrown at legit, responsible gun owners. I just wanted to show that people are so selfish that they will not even consider giving up their right to get a buzz to save lives. They want to take guns away from people who want them for protection, but they will not even consider giving up "a buzz" to save a life.

This thread was meant to show the hypocrisy. Keep the gun debate going, but I don't want to hear about this self-righteous crap that you all actually give a damn about others. If people did, they would support banning alcohol too. The debates is about guns, and guns only. Not saving people.

dimitrispearljam

bootlegger10 wrote:

Alcohol related deaths - 80,000 per year
Gun Deaths in 2011 - 31,940

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_deaths_are_in_the_US_every_year

We should try to limit deaths from both, but I would like to understand how gun owners are ridiculed for owning guns and are called stupid, but it is perfectly fine to go the store and buy beer that kills more than 2x the amount of people that guns do a year. The figures do not even account for all of the domestic abuse related to alcohol that don't result in death.

So my question is, for those that are for banning guns, why aren't you for banning alcohol? Like I said in another post, a gun owner can at least say they are trying to protect their families and want to keep the guns. An alcohol drinker's only excuse for not banning alcohol is because they want to get a buzz (sounds pretty selfish).

I'm for stricter gun control, but the amount of hate spewed at gun owners right now seems hypocritical related to alcohol.

to answer to this btw again...
how many timesin their life people hold a glass of alchohol at their hands?
i guess alot...
how many times you thought holding this glass that this thing kills??
not alot..couse this shit didnt created to kill

how many times people in their lifes hold a gun??
i guess only a few..
how many times they thought this thing they holding can kill?
ALL the times.. .cos this thing is made for kill

happy new year!!

DS1119

dimitrispearljam wrote:

bootlegger10 wrote:

Alcohol related deaths - 80,000 per year
Gun Deaths in 2011 - 31,940

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_deaths_are_in_the_US_every_year

We should try to limit deaths from both, but I would like to understand how gun owners are ridiculed for owning guns and are called stupid, but it is perfectly fine to go the store and buy beer that kills more than 2x the amount of people that guns do a year. The figures do not even account for all of the domestic abuse related to alcohol that don't result in death.

So my question is, for those that are for banning guns, why aren't you for banning alcohol? Like I said in another post, a gun owner can at least say they are trying to protect their families and want to keep the guns. An alcohol drinker's only excuse for not banning alcohol is because they want to get a buzz (sounds pretty selfish).

I'm for stricter gun control, but the amount of hate spewed at gun owners right now seems hypocritical related to alcohol.

to answer to this btw again...
how many timesin their life people hold a glass of alchohol at their hands?
i guess alot...
how many times you thought holding this glass that this thing kills??
not alot..couse this shit didnt created to kill

how many times people in their lifes hold a gun??
i guess only a few..
how many times they thought this thing they holding can kill?
ALL the times.. .cos this thing is made for kill

happy new year!!

Guns were made to protect...much like you mentioned in an earlier post how you are in the military but you will only protect your country. You would never invade anyone. I think you mentioned that if your military ever chose to invade anyone you would resign immediately. Pretty much how the overwhelming majority of legal gun owners in the US feel.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

DS1119 wrote:

bootlegger10 wrote:

Many Americans lack the respect to drink responsibly. You will never quell alcohol deaths and violence because a good portion of the population still refuse to see it as an issue.

This thread was not meant to quiet the gun debate, or to limit gun control. This thread was a reaction to the amount of hate thrown at legit, responsible gun owners. I just wanted to show that people are so selfish that they will not even consider giving up their right to get a buzz to save lives. They want to take guns away from people who want them for protection, but they will not even consider giving up "a buzz" to save a life.

This thread was meant to show the hypocrisy. Keep the gun debate going, but I don't want to hear about this self-righteous crap that you all actually give a damn about others. If people did, they would support banning alcohol too. The debates is about guns, and guns only. Not saving people.

US alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.3 (2010 figures)
Canada alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.18 (2009 figure)

Sources:
http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-dri ... statistics
http://www.madd.ca/media/docs/MADD_Cana ... _FINAL.pdf

Our countries compare with regards to the fatalities that occur as a result of drunk driving. A problem for both of us.

Our countries both have mental illness, violent video games, and criminals. We are very, very similar.

The US boasts a homicide by gunfire rate that is over 6 times as high as Canada though.

What variable accounts for this discrepancy?

dimitrispearljam

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

US alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.3 (2010 figures)
Canada alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.18 (2009 figure)

Sources:
http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-dri ... statistics
http://www.madd.ca/media/docs/MADD_Cana ... _FINAL.pdf

Our countries compare with regards to the fatalities that occur as a result of drunk driving. A problem for both of us.

Our countries both have mental illness, violent video games, and criminals. We are very, very similar.

The US boasts a homicide by gunfire rate that is over 6 times as high as Canada though.

What variable accounts for this discrepancy?

you nailed it....
happy new year!!!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dimitrispearljam wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

US alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.3 (2010 figures)
Canada alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.18 (2009 figure)

Sources:
http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-dri ... statistics
http://www.madd.ca/media/docs/MADD_Cana ... _FINAL.pdf

Our countries compare with regards to the fatalities that occur as a result of drunk driving. A problem for both of us.

Our countries both have mental illness, violent video games, and criminals. We are very, very similar.

The US boasts a homicide by gunfire rate that is over 6 times as high as Canada though.

What variable accounts for this discrepancy?

you nailed it....
happy new year!!!

Same to you, Buddy! Be safe.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

US alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.3 (2010 figures)
Canada alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.18 (2009 figure)

Sources:
http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-dri ... statistics
http://www.madd.ca/media/docs/MADD_Cana ... _FINAL.pdf

Our countries compare with regards to the fatalities that occur as a result of drunk driving. A problem for both of us.

Our countries both have mental illness, violent video games, and criminals. We are very, very similar.

The US boasts a homicide by gunfire rate that is over 6 times as high as Canada though.

What variable accounts for this discrepancy?

don't expect an answer. just another deflecting question/comment.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

US alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.3 (2010 figures)
Canada alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.18 (2009 figure)

Sources:
http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-dri ... statistics
http://www.madd.ca/media/docs/MADD_Cana ... _FINAL.pdf

Our countries compare with regards to the fatalities that occur as a result of drunk driving. A problem for both of us.

Our countries both have mental illness, violent video games, and criminals. We are very, very similar.

The US boasts a homicide by gunfire rate that is over 6 times as high as Canada though.

What variable accounts for this discrepancy?

don't expect an answer. just another deflecting question/comment.

I'm not.

How do you respond to something such as that without changing the subject or saying something really dumb?

What is it about people that they just cannot admit when they are wrong? I won't suggest that this has been a debate becasue it truly hasn't. It's been a landslide- a 'thundering' of the highest order- in favour of the side demanding gun reform.

Not admitting error in their way of thinking... nor even considering moderation- which most on here have suggested as the approriate response to the epidemic their country faces- they stubbornly keep flailing away.

I just don't get it.

comebackgirl

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

US alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.3 (2010 figures)
Canada alcohol impaired driving fatalities per 100,000= 3.18 (2009 figure)

Sources:
http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-dri ... statistics
http://www.madd.ca/media/docs/MADD_Cana ... _FINAL.pdf

Our countries compare with regards to the fatalities that occur as a result of drunk driving. A problem for both of us.

Our countries both have mental illness, violent video games, and criminals. We are very, very similar.

The US boasts a homicide by gunfire rate that is over 6 times as high as Canada though.

What variable accounts for this discrepancy?

don't expect an answer. just another deflecting question/comment.

I'm not.

How do you respond to something such as that without changing the subject or saying something really dumb?

What is it about people that they just cannot admit when they are wrong? I won't suggest that this has been a debate becasue it truly hasn't. It's been a landslide- a 'thundering' of the highest order- in favour of the side demanding gun reform.

Not admitting error in their way of thinking... nor even considering moderation- which most on here have suggested as the approriate response to the epidemic their country faces- they stubbornly keep flailing away.

I just don't get it.

Not everyone understands the value or has mastered the art of humility.

“Any man worth his salt will stick up for what he believes right, but it takes a slightly better man to acknowledge instantly and without reservation that he is in error.” - Andrew Jackson

“A great man is always willing to be little.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson

know1

Guns are not made to protect. They are made to kill. They do not protect anything.